197 replies to this topic

[Bawoman]

I put off starting this thread since I wasn't sure we would see the somewhat controversial character of Stanley Rizzo past season 4, but since he will, in fact, be gracing us with his presence (yipee!) this season, I thought the lunkhead deserved his own thread.

I like the guy. What we first see him as is a male chauvinist pig, sure, but I feel that has to do more with his insecurities ( especially the ones that Peg arises in him, and yes, pun intended ) than any deep seated misogyny. He doesn't hate women, he just doesn't know how to deal with them ( again, especially women like Peggy ). Alot of times those 2 things are inherent to each other, but not always. I always thought it would be an interesting study to contrast him with most of the other male characters on the show, who may act more gentlemanly and respectfull to the women initially, but in the end, end up doing some pretty nasty shit to them. To me, compared to most of the other boys at SCDP, the guy seems harmless ( allthough admitedly we don't know a great many things about the character just yet to reach that conclusion, but a strong intuition tells me that's where the character is headed, or should be at any rate.)

No doubt he just exploded douchery in his first scenes in "Waldorf Stories", but once he saw how Peggy got the upper hand, his condescension was replaced by a complete and utter awe of the woman and he started acting pretty decently towards her, fast. He brought her beer, appeared genuienly upset about the possibility of her being fired and managed to be profesional enough to put all their diferences aside for their work. He did make a pass at her later in "Chinese Wall" but seemed to buy the clue that Peggy wasn't interested pretty quickly and took Peggy's rebuffing in good spirits. The lipstick incident had more to do with his obvious love of prankish frat boy humor than any malice or revenge, and judging from Peggy's reaction, that's how she saw it as well.

His being so smitten with Peggy doesn't really help me hate the character either. It's very endearing how he secretly seems to worship her, all the while cluelessly pulling her pigtails, so to speak, to get her attention.It really is kind of cute, and, because I too think that Peggy is awesome, I understand where he's coming from. Most of all he seems willing to learn, and seems eager to keep receiving everything Peggy dishes out to him. I don't think the relationship has to turn romantic for their dynamic to work either ( though I will sheepishly admit the idea wouldn't bother me at all ). Them recognizing the diferences between the image they each have of each other and who the other really is, and becoming unlikely friends and allies in the battle of the sexes would work just as well. If Stan learns a few things from her, and grows up a little I would not be at all suprised.

All in all, I find the character refreshing. I love all my Mad Men with their drinking problems, checkered pasts and tormented existences, but Stan's simplicity ( by simplicity I'm not implying stupidity, btw, as his talent seems to have earned the respect from almost all of his co-workers enough for him to have made the SCDP cut late last season) and naive goofball charm is a welcome break from the heaviness of alot of the other characters in the series.

I hope the character is fully fleshed out this season, and, as much as I love them in scenes together, I think it wouldn't hurt to get to know a little bit more about him without Peggy always being a factor.

Anyway, super excited about S5 and what's in store for all the characters, but as of now I am totally rooting for this underdog.

Edited by Bawoman, Mar 18, 2012 @ 12:45 PM.

[SueB]

I think Jay said it best at Paley Fest. I can't remember the words exactly but he said he was the new douchebag guy. But now that he survived the purge (and it WAS a purge at the end of S4), I'm thinking he'll get more depth.

Bits I liked:
- the way he thought Don was "the man" for the full page add
- that he cleaned up when Joan yelled
- that his getting back at Peggy wasn't really mean-spirited and more office-prankish (and she took it that way).

Hopes for S5:
- he has a moment like Paul did when Paul recognized how good Peggy was (Paul had lost his idea and Peggy started free-wheeling about telegraphs begin permanent -- at that moment Paul realized Peggy was a mini-Don). I want us to see Stan see that even if he doesn't tell Peggy.
- he gets involved in one of the "capers". Those are my favorite SCDP moments (like the Honda motorcycle thing). I think Stan has the right personality for it.

[Tom Bomb]

For S5, it might be fun to have Don tell Stan to take Megan under his wing, to help with art, and to get her some experience in creative. Stan would have to keep his eyes averted and his hands in his pockets, around the boss's hot new wife all day!

[Bawoman]

- he has a moment like Paul did when Paul recognized how good Peggy was (Paul had lost his idea and Peggy started free-wheeling about telegraphs begin permanent -- at that moment Paul realized Peggy was a mini-Don). I want us to see Stan see that even if he doesn't tell Peggy.

I think he already knows how good Peggy is. As condescending as he was to her as a woman, he never seemed to belittle her as a professional. What I would love is for both to be shown as super talented people who become a totally kick-ass creative team (with Peg as the leader, of course) that takes SCDP by storm. Would really love it if they had to work with Pete on an account, seeing the 3 of them butt heads would make very interesting t.v (plus, the akward tension would be killer). Maybe they can plan a caper like you mentioned.

Edited by Bawoman, Mar 21, 2012 @ 3:12 PM.

[Riff Randell]

I think he already knows how good Peggy is. As condescending as he was to her as a woman, he never seemed to belittle her as a professional.

Agreed. Even before the hotel showdown, he at least listened and attempted to have a dialogue with her about her Glo-Coat gripes, even though he jostled her ego a bit, after.

I'd even argue that Stan is the anti-Kinsey, especially in regards to their relationships with Peggy, although on the surface they're very similar (try-hard "I'm so hip and cool" blowhards with more bark than bite). Paul only showed romantic interest in Peggy until she dropped the meekness and started running circles around him creatively; that sure deflated his attraction pretty quickly. He was more jealous than impressed. Stan, on the other hand, dismissed Peggy as unworthy of his full respect until she started smacking him around and showed just how tough and quick-thinking she really was. I'm pretty sure it was her ballsiness that won him over more than her breasts (although that probably didn't hurt).

Since Smitty and Kurt are gone, and Joey turned out to be a moldy little toenail clipping, I'd like Peggy and Stan to have built some kind of close working rapport, maybe even a tentative friendship. I don't think he's a bad guy, just seems to have read the Frat Boy's Guide to Manliness one time too many. And I don't think Joey was entirely wrong when he told Stan "you love her", either. He looked pretty devastated when he thought Peggy was going to get canned, and it looked like Joyce openly hitting on her riled him up more than he wanted to admit. I liked him reminding her she needed to stop worrying about Don and just eat lunch in 'The Suitcase', too. I'm very interested to see his reaction to Abe, if he's still around this season.

[Sunshine55]

Interesting insights. I do think that Stan showed a little more depth by the end of the season than I'd ever have expected from him during the "Waldorf Stories" episode.

I can't seem to get the quotation box to work, but as TomBomb said:

"For S5, it might be fun to have Don tell Stan to take Megan under his wing, to help with art, and to get her some experience in creative. Stan would have to keep his eyes averted and his hands in his pockets, around the boss's hot new wife all day!"

That would be a fun scenario. He already compared her to Yvette Mimieux in one episode ("The Beautiful Girls" maybe?), so it's pretty well-established that he thinks Megan is hot.

Edited by Sunshine55, Mar 22, 2012 @ 8:45 AM.

[WaltzinSpringTm]

I like Stan too. His face when he and Jimmy hastily started cleaning up after Joan chewed them out made it clear he's a good boy (I HOPE) underneath the posturing. He's supposedly talented, so there's that. I think he actually likes Peggy now that they've moved past the nonsense. I think they already have sort of developed a friendship - they've been on the same side a bunch of times - pitching the Joe Namath/Samsonite endorsement, and other endeavors. He's been immature and has used his progressive cool to try and bully his way into getting laid- always a winning approach. But I think he's grown up and it helps that he's good at his job. I enjoy the actor - he's got good rhythm and good chemistry with his role. It's the kind of douchebag I like - a guy you love to hate - and actually kind of like and so it's fine when he becomes a better person. Lots of times there's a truly annoying person in that type of role and I resent it when they soften up, because I still don't like them. Him, I enjoy.

Edited by WaltzinSpringTm, Jun 2, 2013 @ 6:08 PM.

[Bawoman]

Read this in a review of the premiere:

http://www.columbusalive.com/content/stories/2012/03/22/tv-review-mad-men.html

The other character who benefits from the longer runtime is Stan Rizzo (Jay R. Ferguson). Last season he was mainly just a foil for Peggy (Elisabeth Moss) at the office. His character isn’t exactly transformed, but you get the sense he’s found a role in this world and the SCDP office while offering up some mischief to boot.

Sounds interesting.

[Riff Randell]

Now that Jay R. Ferguson's name is in the opening credits and he's been promoted to a regular, I'm interested to see how much bigger a role Stan is going to have this season. Loved how effortlessly he played Harry in that scene with Megan. Also liked getting to see him interact with Abe during the Vietnam discussion. Wonder if something happens and his cousin's going to be mentioned again.

He and Peggy seem to have mostly smoothed things over, although I wonder why he told her to "drop dead" after she made suggestions for the coupons. He said it so quietly I didn't catch it until my second viewing.

[Scaramanga]

I've been trying to figure out what midcentury actor Stan reminds me of (physical resemblance only), and it came to me: he looks kind of like Richard Long. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0519160/

[Sunshine55]

I really liked him in "A Little Kiss." That scene where Harry is talking about Megan and Stan tries to warn him was a very sitcom-y moment, but I thought it played out just great. Stan had a twinkle in his eye while Harry was going on and on.
Maybe it just took Peggy putting Stan in his place in "Waldorf Stories" to mature him a little bit. He's been a lot less pompous since then.
His fashion sense, however, could use a little work!

[Blue32]

I kind of like Stan a lot these days. He's described in the recap as "amiable," which sounds about right. I suppose that could change--Joey was good-natured and pleasant enough, once upon a time--but he seems like a good egg and that he's accepted his place in the SCDP pecking order with little rancour or resentment. Even when he told Peggy to drop dead in the premiere, I didn't get the sense that there was any genuine ill will behind it; he was just irritated at her lack of direction. And I was laughing right along with Stan when he was egging Harry to elaborate on his sexual fantasy about Megan while she was standing right behind him. Hee hee.

As for Stan's crush on Peggy...I have a theory that Stan, underneath his macho bluster, is actually a closet sub and loves Peggy bossing him around. He seemed to like Peggy a lot more after she called his bluff in Waldorf Stories and established her dominance, essentially. Maybe he actually enjoys that kind of thing?

Edited by Blue32, Apr 1, 2012 @ 1:39 PM.

[Bawoman]

I suppose that could change--Joey was good-natured and pleasant enough, once upon a time-

Ah yes, but that was an interesting contrast of last season. Joey seemed amiable and got along with Peggy great at first, but then when push came to shove he was discovered to have a major mean streak towards women, while Stan, who first appeared as a mysogynistic, chauvinistic prick who did not get along with Peggy at all, later seemed to have more respect for them than he let on. I hope that doesn't change, but I don't think it will, because what would have been the point of keeping him around then?

And I totally agree that Stan probably has at least 50 fantasies a day involving Head Mistress Peggy and a whip. They would so kick Megan and Don's asses in the S&M department.

Edited by Bawoman, Apr 1, 2012 @ 5:56 PM.

[Blue Nocturne]

Ah yes, but that was an interesting contrast of last season. Joey seemed amiable and got along with Peggy great at first, but then when push came to shove he was discovered to have a major mean streak towards women, while Stan, who first appeared as a mysogynistic, chauvinistic prick who did not get along with Peggy at all, later seemed to have more respect for them than he let on.

A similar dynamic was shown with Peggy, Ken, and Paul back in the early seasons. Ken was definitely the most piggish guy of the old SC crew, but he was the first to give Peggy her due when she started moving up in the agency. He may have been sexist as hell, but there wasn't some deep-seated misogyny that kept him from fully appreciating Peggy. Compare Paul who seemed more progressive and forward thinking at first glimpse, but took a long time to accept that Peggy is just THAT good.

Stan reminds me of how Ken used to be. Sexist rather than misogynistic, if that makes any sense.

[SueB]

Stan! What funny moments he had tonight:
- The pantyhose over the head. And of course that also made him look like a burglar too (fitting in with the male violence theme).
- Dissing Roger,

[Blue32]

I just about died at his response to Don's suggestion of Snow White and Sleeping Beauty: "They're more about necrophilia than shoes." HA!

Stan's reaction faces to Michael were gold. I did think it was interesting how he interpreted Michael's Cinderella pitch as "going haywire," or Michael running off his mouth in a moment of inspiration, when it was pretty clearly a calculated, premeditated move.

[Bawoman]

Stan was a freakin hoot in "Mystery Date". My favorite moment was him making fun of Roger with the "I'm going to go out there and find him" speech. Roger's "I can't believe this punk just pwned me!" non-reaction was priceless. Peter may be Roger's competition as far as accounts, but Stan is clearly becoming his as far as one liners. And he looked great in the suit and tie, I must say. He has a perfect build for that look.

In regards to the previous episode "Tea leaves" I thought it was very insightfull how he seemed to be protective of Peggy and her job when advising her to "hire mediocre". A talented man had much more chances of being promoted than a talented woman did then, and while the advise may have been cynical, it was well intentioned, smart and proved he had brain capacity for far more than just fart jokes. While it's easy to interpret that scene as Stan saying yet another smart ass thing, if you check his later reaction to Pete announcing he hired the new copywriter, he is very clearly unhappy. He really was looking out for Peggy.

Edited by Bawoman, Apr 10, 2012 @ 1:02 AM.

[CurvyKitten]

I was bored at home the other night and googled the actors name, and apparently on teenidol4you.com there are several rather embarassing pictures of him. I must say though, he did grow up to be quite a looker!

[BBDi]

I hope to see more of his character in future episodes. Or maybe he is just there for some leavening. Either way, I'm glad he's still on this season.

[Riff Randell]

I loved his "pep talk" with Peggy in 'Tea Leaves', as crudely as he phrased it. He really meant well. It's nice that she has at least someone looking out for her at work, what with Don off in La-La Land (or Zou Bisou Land) these days.

I also thought it was interesting that he didn't stay behind with the others to grab drinks after the Butler presentation. I don't see him as the type to typically turn down free drinks on the company clock. Maybe it was because he was stuck taking back the unwanted artwork to SCDP, but I think it's more likely he couldn't wait to tell Peggy about Michael's Wannabe Don Moment. Loved how effortlessly they both put Roger in his place, too, especially contrasted with Don being overpowered by Michael. The youth are really taking over.

[WaltzinSpringTm]

I hope I'm not making assumptions but I like the character because I trust him. I know just about how big a douche he can be and it's not that bad. He's made his adjustment and he knows where the lines are.

[rogaine2233]

Is Stan the only AD at SCDP? I know they have streamlined staff, but it seems as though they really should have at least another part time/freelance art director at minimum.

[Bawoman]

Is Stan the only AD at SCDP? I know they have streamlined staff, but it seems as though they really should have at least another part time/freelance art director at minimum.

That's where Sal should come in. Stan, Peggy and Sal working together and sharing an office would be like my own personal Mad Men utopia.


I also agree about trusting Stan. You get what you see with him, at least that's how hes being potrayed now. Very refreshing.

[Bawoman]

You got to love Rizzo. Of everyone in the office he is the only one with balls big enough to give Megan an unflattering nickname like "Jethro". The fact that I am NOT a fan of Megan just endears him to me more and more.

Allthough I do think they are showing subtle signs of character development for Stan (being supportive of Peggy twice and giving her advise, worrying about his own future with regards to photography, and generally acting more adult and less goofy) I need way more. You have to wonder why they made him a series regular if he was going to appear for 5 minutes tops every episode. I did find it interesting how they showed Peggy and Abe talking about her not being able to get her mind of work on a date, and then showing Stan saying pretty much the same thing about being on a date and only being able to think about anything but the fact that he will never be able to draw as well as a picture. Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but I thought that could be a subtle clue to the similarities between those 2.

Edited by Bawoman, Apr 23, 2012 @ 3:00 PM.

[Riff Randell]

You have to wonder why they made him a series regular if he was going to appear for 5 minutes tops every episode. I did find it interesting how they showed Peggy and Abe talking about her not being able to get her mind of work on a date, and then showing Stan saying pretty much the same thing about being on a date and only being able to think about anything but the fact that he will never be able to draw as well as a picture

I'm thinking (more like hoping) he'll be featured a bit more prominently in some later episodes this season. I also found it interesting that he and Peggy are similarly prioritizing work over outside relationships.

Stan's been far more supportive towards her than Abe has, or even anyone else in that office. I'd like to see a few parting shots exchanged between those two before Abe finally heads off for good. As we saw in 'Waldorf Stories', Stan's buffoonery can have a cruel streak, and I shamelessly admit to wanting to watch him tear into Abe. The look on his face when Abe was explicitly describing the way his sailor cousin would be returning home mangled in a box in front of said cousin spoke volumes. And I think beneath it all, Stan really cares about Peggy, which gives him added incentive to dislike him. They're both young artsy guys who consider themselves progressive counterculture types, yet are still polar opposites. The dynamic's too good to not explore at least briefly.

[SueB]

Stan's stock continues to rise for me. I loved the "suicidal" comment because it was with a tone of admiration.

[Riff Randell]

Was it me, or did Stan seem a bit more reserved than usual during that dinner scene in the creative lounge? He was still crude and opinionated, of course, but he also seemed a little standoffish. He didn't look at Abe once - he kept looking around him at Peggy. Even when Abe took off and Stan stood up to nod his good-bye, he didn't make eye contact. I found it odd, considering they seemed on civil enough terms during the Vietnam debate with Bert at Don's birthday. (At least until Abe gruesomely described the fate awaiting his sailor cousin.) Jealousy, maybe?

I also think his warmth towards Megan during the Heinz celebration seemed genuine, which served as a nice contrast to the subtle reminders of his sexism sprinkled throughout the rest of the episode. He's imperfect, but for all the chauvinist bluster, he's still mostly a fair guy.

[Bawoman]

I found it odd

I didn't. After Peg and Abe kissed, Stan couldn't even bring himself to look at Abe, and the goodbyes afterwards were akward at best. He may get along with Abe in a big party setting, where there are plenty of people and things aren't so intimate, but the dinner scene was a completely diferent story.

I do think Stan likes Abe though, but he's not made of stone. He's smitten with Peggy and it was an uncomfortable moment for him.

I also think his warmth towards Megan during the Heinz celebration seemed genuine,

I thought there was alot of irony in his "warmth" towards Megan, and I didn't find it genuine at all. But him resenting Megan wouldn't make him a mysoginist in my eyes anyway. Hell, I admit I would resent her, especially if I had been looking out for Peggy like Stan was! He also didn't deny it when Megan said it had been "beginers luck". Then again, I read others who interpreted it like you have, so I could be wrong.

What did make me happy was when he admited that Megan's work had been better than what they had. That to me was the reminder that Stan can admit defeat, even if he was defeated by a woman. That proved to me what Megan's congratulations proved to you.

Edited by Bawoman, May 3, 2012 @ 11:47 PM.

[SueB]

Someone in the episode thread said Stan's look at Megan was a "yeah, right" kind of look. He's figured out that Megan's got the knack. Even worse, for his protection of Peggy (and YES ITA he's smitten with Peggy but not mooning), here's yet ANOTHER creative who is actually talented and she shared Don's bed.

But I think Stan respects talent and see that Megan has it.

[Riff Randell]

Even though he hasn't gotten any storylines or larger B-plots of his own this season, I'm admiring of the depth that continues to be added to Stan's character. He has the ability to be both a total jackass and genuinely sympathetic in the span of a heartbeat - his "Hahaha, are you kidding?!" reaction to Megan's acting announcement contrasted with the genuine warmth in his good-bye to her.

Loved the brief shot of him sharing a joint with Peggy during another work all-nighter. I bet that's become a near nightly occurrence for them.