304 replies to this topic

[MorninStar]

Dr. Whale. Who is he? He's clearly in Regina's pocket.. he's a liar and a womanizer. Is he Regina's puppet on a string? Some suspected that he was The Big Bad Wolf, but now that character role is fulfilled in Ruby.. just who is this arrogant young physician?

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I brought this conversation over from another thread. I'm sorry if I've missed anyones musings on this character, but feel free to chime in here!

roseandthedoc37:

I so thought he was The Big Bad Wolf, and talk about clues they kept hinting, wow I was surprised. Unfortunately, having seen the Movie cardie mentioned, I was not blown away with the story, but glad that it was Red who was the wolf in the end.

I was more interested in what was going on in Story brook, and Henry needs some help if he thinks Red is amazing, I'd think he'd be a little frightened by her now? Getting back to Mr. Anders, the producers of OUAT said the thing about Dr. Whale is he can't be tied down, and we won't see who he is till next season. The first thing I thought was Gulliver, he was a giant to the Lilliputians who ted him up, so there is the whale thing. Or, second, he's Regina's puppet, and we all know Pinocchio sang, "I got no strings to tie me down".

rtms:

I'm thinking he's Moby Dick, elusive and mysterious, can't pin him down etc. Though that doesn't really explain why he creeps people out so much.

roseandthedoc37:

I forgot to say Gulliver's profession was also a doctor. So everything fits, except Regina's control of him, is strange. I bet she has his heart in a box as well. I find him arrogant, and of course he's a womanizer, but not evil, at all. Maybe Regina had something to do with his fate in Fairy tale land.

The 'Gulliver' thing would be interesting for Dr. Whale. I don't know a lot about that tale. I wonder how the writers would twist that story to fit in Storybrooke. Would he, for example, consider everyone 'little people' (arrogance?) Another interesting parallel might be (after reading a short synopsis) that initially Gulliver (Dr. Whale, IF he is Gulliver) would help the government of Liliput/Regina of Storybrooke, only to later refuse the King's increasing demands to subdue rivals.

Of course Pinocchio is a possibility.. or even someone from Moby Dick.

Edited by MorninStar, Mar 15, 2012 @ 4:31 PM.

[rtms]

They really haven't given any good clues about him have they,lol. He's one of the most mysterious people in town. I do think he's under Regina's sway, either by the heart thing or intimidation. Not to mention , is he the ONLY doctor in town? It's a hospital, there have to be more right?

[lubi]

I really like the Puss in Boots theory. I doesn't explain the Whale name but here's why I think it fits:

In the story the cat is given to his master as inheritance, who was a miller's son - Regina could be the Miller's daughter (Regina Mills)

The cat is very devious and helps his master trick the King into thinking he's royalty in order to marry his daughter - Maybe he helps Regina trick King Leopold in order to marry him.

The cat also kills an ogre and we know about the ogre wars.

We also know that Dr. Whale works for Regina.

And yes, Dreamworks has the rights to Puss in Boots but Disney has the rights to Pinocchio and he makes a big appearance in "Shrek", so who knows how this works.

[MorninStar]

Puss in Boots would be interesting too.

I don't think anyone can 'own' a folk tale character.. it's waaaay earlier than laws on that stuff. I think it was written in the 1600's by Charles Perrault ('Mother Goose')

I read a book with a 'Puss in Boots' type character. It was fascinating because one didn't realize it was Puss in Boots until the end of the tale.. and they never called him by the name 'Puss in Boots'.

[Vanilla Siren]

Simply based on his name, I am wondering if Dr. Whale is the whale "Monstro" from the Pinnochio story?

I hope he turns out to be someone really cool. According to what someone posted in the last episode thread, we will have to wait until next season to find out who he really is. Dang. I have loved David Anders since his Alias days and I only hope they use him more as the show goes on.

[roseandthedoc37]

My guess is their misdirecting us with the name Whale, and could do something like showing us a close up of this huge blue eye, and it pans back and instead we see a giant man tied down on the sand, and were looking up at him. For some reason I remember them doing a close up of Monstro's eye in the Pinocchio film, been awhile, since I've seen it, this would be really great.

Oh, and whales beach themselves sometimes too. Gulliver wakes up on the beach, and finds himself in this situation.

Edited by roseandthedoc37, Mar 16, 2012 @ 6:23 PM.

[LimelightQueen]

Rose, I think that Gulliver fits but it's too archaic. The writers are banking on people being familiar with the stories. I don't think enough people know Gulliver's Travels for them to use it.

Yeah, my immediate thought was Monstro as well. But I just don't see how that would work. And now that I know we won't know until next season, I am saying that I hope he's not. A full season is way too long to make viewers wait for a reveal like "Dr. Whale is the whale from Pinocchio!"

I do like the Puss in Boots theory. Has anyone noticed what type of shoes Dr. Whale prefers?

[Kyranthia]

My thought is that Dr. Whale is tied to The Little Mermaid story. Maybe he's the equivalent of the Sea Witch (Ursula) and was the wizard that made the red cloak for Red/Ruby. He does seem to have a connection to Ruby, so maybe that's it?

[Aurilly]

I'm wondering if he's Bluebeard? I've just been trying to think of characters who are 'lecherous'. Bluebeard's the closest I can come up with, and the scene of him trying to lure Ruby away from the bus station was good evidence. However, that's a lot darker than I actually think this character is supposed to be. I get the feeling that he's an ass, and definitely morally grey, but I'm still not convinced he's out and out evil. I think the actor is being directed to play it as ambiguously as possible; I watched last week's scene at the hospital three times and I legitimately couldn't be sure if he was completely on Regina's side, or if he's someone like Archie who doesn't actually want to work for her (the way he said, 'Regina is still David's contact" was a bit regretful/embarrassed). He's been professional and chummy and nice in some scenes, but then in others he has awful.

But there's also that other bit of characterization, where he told Mary Margaret that his life ethos is to "never do what people expect". That made me think he was Robin Hood (stealing from the rich, giving to the poor), but that doesn't go with the doctor thing, the lecherous thing, or the name Whale.

They're doing a good job of making this mystery compelling yet still completely mysterious.

[lubi]

I'm wondering if he's Bluebeard?

Well, there's the Blue Whale but that might be stretching. It would be awesome but I agree, Dr. Whale with a basement full of dead wives, might be too dark for this show. Great theory tough.

[LimelightQueen]

My thought is that Dr. Whale is tied to The Little Mermaid story. Maybe he's the equivalent of the Sea Witch (Ursula) and was the wizard that made the red cloak for Red/Ruby. He does seem to have a connection to Ruby, so maybe that's it?

I like this one! It definitely seems like the best fit.

[MorninStar]

Although I'm not 100% sold on it, I like the Gulliver theory best so far. I do think the writers could easily fit the story in/remind people about the story through flashbacks.. however I don't know how they would fit it in with Regina/Rumpelstiltskin. I suppose the little people of Lilliput could be fairies, which I am beginning to wonder how good/evil they are.

[ImNotLeesa]

I'd been trying to think of fairy tale characters who are lecherous, thinking that would correspond to Dr. Whale's Storybrooke characteristics, but now I'm wondering if it goes the other way. Maybe Dr. Whale's fairy tale persona is someone who is monogomous and loyal, and Regina's curse has corrupted that (similar to how Charming's decisive bravery has given way to David's muddled wishy-washyness)

[Aurilly]

You know what? That's brilliant. I think you're right. He is someone more like Charming in terms of one true love, but in Storybrooke he's playing the field; maybe he's looking for the right woman, whom he can't find? I think if this is true, he isn't the Pinocchio whale, because unless they do a thing like they did with Jiminy, I just don't see a whale having a romantic storyline.

I'm going to think about this and be back sometime with a different theory. :)

[Cassis]

Actually...I think I am going to stick with the Big Bad Wolf theory. Just because Ruby is a wolf doesn't mean that there can't be another--in fact we know from Granny's story that there are many werewolves. And there's at least one more wolf in fairy/folktales--the three pigs' BBW--not to mention that there are versions of the RRH story in which she and Granny off a second wolf on their own.

[loosy]

<b>Cassis</b>, there is another wolf in "The 7 little goats", who meets a similar end (stuffed to burst and falling asleep, only to have his belly cut open, his meal jumps out and they refill him with big rocks, so when he awakes and drags himself to quench his thirst, he walls into the well and drowns) to Red´s wolf.
As for Whale, at this point, any theory sounds good to me. But there is a Grimm´s tale involving a fish, it is called "The Fisherman and his Wife". The namesake couple are so poor, the live in an upsidedown pisspot -no, seriously. The fisher one day catches at least one fish, but it is so tiny, he decides to spare his life and throws him back into the ocean. The fish then gratefully grants him a wish. The fisher wishes for a small house and being able to feed himself. He comes home and indeed the pisspot is replaced by a nice small house. His wife is happy at first, but soon beggins to nag about wanting more. So the fisher recalls the fish with a handy little spell and relays his wifes wishes. Again, the fish complies, the man goes home, and i think you know where this is going. Each time, more nagging, a bigger house, a castle, a kingdom, and each time, the fisher returns to the beach calling the fish, who asks: What does she want?, only each time the ocean seems to get more disturbed and the fish seems to be growing. In the end the fisher can barely get his words out over the fierce winds of what appears to be a hurricane, and the fish is described to be the size of a whale. he screams Enough!, there´s thunder and then everything´s quiet, the fish is gone, and the couple is back to living in a pisspot.
Now i didn´t want to bore you, if you already knew this story, but i have not seen it mentioned anywhere, and i didn´t find a link to it in english, so i figured, i put it up here?
I am not sure if it could relate to our Dr. Whale, but the fish is clearly magicall, and Regina seemed to have called together a few of those creatures in the beginning to cast the spell. So, maybe he was involved somehow not because he´s evil, but because he´s dissappointed by humans and wants them punished?

edit: oh, boy.. i really killed the thread, didn´t i? Bad loosy...

Edited by loosy, Mar 21, 2012 @ 1:04 PM.

[agora]

Actually...I think I am going to stick with the Big Bad Wolf theory. Just because Ruby is a wolf doesn't mean that there can't be another--in fact we know from Granny's story that there are many werewolves.

Actually, it's because Ruby is a wolf that now I'm thinking Dr. Whale could be the hunter ...I just wish we would know which one is it already!

[LimelightQueen]

Loosy, I like the Fisherman and his Wife theory, but I'd put my money on him being the fisherman, not the fish. It would even tie into his name a bit- he started with a tiny fish but kept going bigger and bigger.

[agora]

I don't know why, but I can't picture Dr. Whale as a fisherman ...nor do I picture Snow White having a one night stand with a magical fish/whale for that matter.

I mean, Princess and the Frog was already disturbing enough without adding this plot twist on top of it.

[loosy]

I mean, Princess and the Frog was already disturbing enough without adding this plot twist on top of it.

agora, because she smashed him into a wall, or because of the whiff of sodomy surrounding that story?

That reminds me, have we got so far any confirmation of cross-species-transformation by the curse? The sheriff was just a wulf-phile hunter, and we have not jet met any of the talking animals, that come up in the tales, right? Most of them are cursed anyway, so maybe Regina´s curse would negate that. That would silence at least some of the IRKSing voices in the back of my head...

[Aurilly]

have we got so far any confirmation of cross-species-transformation by the curse?

I still have to watch this week's episode, so maybe something happened there, but we haven't gotten any confirmation so far. The only hint of an animal we have is Archie's dog Pongo. If Pongo can indeed talk, then maybe the curse has rendered the talking animals mute in Storybrooke.

However, I'm starting to think there aren't actually straight-up talking animals in the Enchanted Forest. The way Snow (or Charming? I can't remember) reacted to Jiminy Cricket during the "let's kill the queen" episode made it seem like talking animals were, if not unheard of, at least extremely rare (much rarer than the audience's expectations).

Also, when you think about it with real-world "making a TV show" logic, I seriously doubt we'll get many talking animal characters. It's really expensive to do the Jiminy stuff and I don't know how many of those scenes they can afford (we've only had maybe 4 in total). The show has gone out of its way to minimize/explain away all the 'talking animal' characters we have already covered (Red being a werewolf, Jiminy having originally been a man, Rumple being the Beast). Also, I simply don't believe they would hire a reasonably well-known actor with a built-in fanbase like David Anders only to have half of his scenes done in animation. At some point, he will have his own episode, and he will star in both parts of it. Therefore, whoever his fairytale counterpart is has to be human. There are ways to stretch that concept, like they did with Jiminy and the Magic Mirror, but his face will be there for at least most of the flashback.

[gaygeeksf]

Well Dr Whale could be two other character/things. Whale could be for Wail and therefore he was an evil banshee character (making him a healer rather than a killer would be cute), or Whale could be for Behemoth and therefore the largest unidentified, that dragon from the initial invoking of the curse scene. Either one would make for a good episode.

[Tricksterson]

Maybe not Behemoth but Leviathan which was IIRC a sea dwelling monster.

[agora]

All I now is I can't picture Dr. Whale as either a Prince or a monster, but I can't picture the exact commoner under fairytale canon either.

[jillypups]

I think Dr Whale is Prince Eric. I was reading the Once Upon a Time blogspot page, and people were talking about Ariel showing up and how she'll be in a wheelchair or something because as a mermaid she can't use her legs, so I think she'll be in the hospital and Dr Whale will fall in love with her because he's Eric. I know he's a horn-dog, but wasn't Disney Eric easily swayed by the feminine wiles of Hot Ursula?

[lubi]

I know he's a horn-dog, but wasn't Disney Eric easily swayed by the feminine wiles of Hot Ursula?

Ursula hypnotized him with the necklace containing Ariel's voice, that's why he fell for her. I don't think Dr. Whale is evil either. He's probably a more lovable scoundrel (Puss in Boots, for example) or someone who's forced to be on Regina's side.

[agora]

I think the Little Mermaid's Prince could fit if they stick to the original story in which he couldn't fall for the mute girl in time because she wasn't like the mermaid he fell in love with.

Unlike classic fairytales, there was no happy ending for them: the mermaid dissolves into foam because she couldn't bring herself to kill the Prince afterwards, so I could definitely picture Dr. Whale as the bitter survivor of a love story that ended up in tragedy because of magic.

Edited by agora, Apr 2, 2012 @ 2:06 PM.

[Aurilly]

Ariel showing up and how she'll be in a wheelchair or something because as a mermaid she can't use her legs, so I think she'll be in the hospital and Dr Whale will fall in love with her because he's Eric.

I never would have thought of this, but now that you have put it in my brain, I want it so badly I can taste it. Please let this be the case! OMG. Oh god, I love this so much. And not only because it involves David Anders in Fairy Tale Prince clothing. :)

It fits the name (water-based). And depending no how they spin it, it could definitely make sense that he's a lech because of something tragic that happened to him when he was a nice guy in the Enchanted Forest. I don't think he's any more evil than the Hatter was---just tragic. I wonder if the Evil Queen = Ursula, and he had some sort of thing with her because she tricked him somehow, and his unhappy ending is that he's still under her thumb in Storybrooke even though he doesn't want to be, and he's being kept from Ariel.

[Miss Muffet]

The idea that Whale is Ariel's prince is a pretty good one. Although I want to say that he is Pinocchio, generally because of the name, but mainly because I want to debunk the idea that August is Pinocchio. ;)

Yeah, I know that whale is a little sleezy, but then you could say that as Pinocchio, he just has a woody.. hehe!

[jillypups]

Ooh, Dr. Whale as Pinnochio? The whoring around could = lying in some way, or that adventurous side of Pinnochio, and didn't someone on here quote Dr Whale as saying he likes to do the unexpected?

Damn, now I think Dr. Whale is the doggone puppet boy. :( I really liked him as Eric and a patient as Ariel.