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20-10: "Women Tell All" 2012.03.05


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#181

shabbieshok

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Posted Mar 7, 2012 @ 8:30 PM

Vienna was easily this disliked.
Ed Swiderski from Jillian's season was also pretty hated by a bunch of the guys... but not in the same way.

I've seen this posted a couple of times on this thread and wanted to rebut it. Ed was very well liked by all the other guys and got along very well with all of them. Due to the unfathomable (to me) mad love there was for Reid that season, a lot of viewers and posters didn't like Ed but that's quite different from him being hated in the house. In fact, what has come out post show is that Reid was the one that had problems with the other guys. He drove them crazy with his OCD and strange neurotic habits.

If you don't watch the show and get caught up in it, it is hard to believe that all these attractive, reasonably intelligent and successful women are competing over this guy as a prize.

For sure. I saw anything attractive about him when he was on Ashley's show and this season, he has just gotten fuglier by the minute. Ick.

#182

fionab

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Posted Mar 7, 2012 @ 9:13 PM

I've seen this posted a couple of times on this thread and wanted to rebut it.


Thanks so much for correcting me... I went back and read the recaps and was totally mistaken. That season was all about the hatred for first Juan and then Wes. That season is the only one I read reality steve, and I think I mixed up all the spoilery hate (what with Ed allegedly misbehaving in Chicago when he left) with the men's feelings. I thought I remembered some of them being upset he returned, but what I found quickly online was just Michael Stagliano being a bit bummed but ultimately pretty nice and aw-shucks about it.

#183

Kali12

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Posted Mar 8, 2012 @ 2:47 AM

I think that was the best she could come up with because narcissists give themselves away when they try to fake certain emotions and can't hide their past inconsistencies.

Courtney was at a disadvantage because we'd all (including the women) seen her in so many situation before. Her changed voice and strained effort at tears just didn't play as sincere. It looked like someone palying a part, acting sad...acting conctrite, but not really feeling anything.

Even the way she said, "I didn't want to hurt Ben" just sounded like, "I didn't want to eat broccoli for dinner."

If she did say that, I find it very interesting, and I wonder if Courtney is one of those inexplicably charismatic people. I've met people like that before, i.e., folks who draw you in even though you don't really trust them and it's against your better judgment.

It seems that Courtney was trying to show Ben how nice she -really- was to Emily on the group date in Belize. She poured on the (phony) charm because she was performing again. Emily, being a sincere person, felt she'd misjudged such a friendly, charming and engaging girl.

After that faded to nothing when the audience (Ben) was gone, Emily figured out, "sick girl".

#184

commenter

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Posted Mar 8, 2012 @ 5:16 AM

I never got the outrage over the skinny-dipping on a show with all the other stuff that goes on: starting from kissing almost a dozen "dates," sometimes several on the same date.

There's a difference between kissing and wrapping oneself around the Bachelor while both are naked.

Of course there is. It’s all the kissing plus the fantasy suite nights (not to mention Bachelor Pad, part of the same franchise) that together make the skinny-dipping less “outrageous.” The rest of that original quote was:

But when he is (and every other Bachelor is) "dating" three women and spends the night with all three (possibly sleeping with all three), it's that different? I never got the outrage ...

I really liked Rachel, I thought she was the prettiest B-ette there

I thought so too, though she spent much of the show without lipstick for some reason, making her lips look colorless and dry. (I’m positive it wasn’t “clear” or pale lipstick, but none.) She wore some at TWTA though.

Edited by commenter, Mar 8, 2012 @ 9:05 AM.


#185

Suite100

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Posted Mar 8, 2012 @ 12:44 PM

I'm kinda sad that the episode isn't called The Women All Tell. Hee.

#186

neptune42

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Posted Mar 9, 2012 @ 2:34 PM

She had time to prepare a convincing argument or at least more of an explanation. She missed her chance to say something more heartfelt and personal (and less repetitive and generic).

I wonder if the reason she didn't come up with anything better is that she really doesn't understand why she reacted the way she did to the other bachelorettes. Might Brad's on-camera therapist is still available?


I think Courtney went on the show with the goal of winning, and without understanding how reality TV and in particular The Bachelor works. In fact, I'm not sure she understands how complex emotions work.

She was rude to the other girls, not realizing that she was setting herself up for the Villainess role. She knew how to play Ben and she did. She crowed about her victories (making brazen moves, getting the rose) in her Talking Head segments, not giving a crap about how that made her look or how the other girls might feel. Perhaps not understanding that people would hate her actions and she wasn't going to come out of the experience as America's Sweetheart.

I don't think Courtney really gave a crap about how she was perceived, until Ben started bringing it up. She saw then that her gameplay was flawed, and she lied to him about how she'd tried to make friends, to cover her ass.

As the shows began to air, she was indeed a Villainess. She made Ben look like an idiot. I can only imagine the flak that her friends and family started to experience - and this is where I can believe Courtney might have some regret about how her actions hurt people. By the time the producers started the damage control, with the voice-overs with regret, it was too late. The Bachelor had become The Bachelor Gets His Ass Handed to Him By the Maneater Courtney Show. What was shown Monday was a weak attempt at pretending to be a human being while expressing scripted regret.

#187

Venee

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Posted Mar 9, 2012 @ 3:05 PM

The Bachelor had become The Bachelor Gets His Ass Handed to Him By the Maneater Courtney Show.


This is the single reason that I'm team Courtney! I can't stand the idea this whole show is even based on: Women looking like utter fools with the Man as the ultimate prize. I was thrilled to see Ben looking like an idiot week after week! Wasn't he just in everlasting love with Ashley a minute ago? Should Courtney be the "last one standing", she will have outwitted, outlasted, and outplayed the others, given this shows history it has shown itself to be nothing but a game.
I will say, that after reading a post upthread, I think I've changed my mind on characterizing the women as desperate. I think that post is correct in that the bitterness and disbelief after they are dumped comes from the fact that they think they are all that! They can't fathom anyone not wanting their fabulous selves, let alone a dumpy, shaggy, centerhairpart wearing average Joe!

#188

crickety

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Posted Mar 10, 2012 @ 7:55 PM

I've never seen any of the women on a TWTA episode (or man on a TMTA) explain their poor behavior and obnoxious words by citing what must surely be a frequent contributing factor: " I was drunk when I said/did that!". Perhaps they are coached by the producers never to admit how much of the time they are nearly falling-down drunk when they are being filmed.

#189

Palomar

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Posted Mar 11, 2012 @ 12:35 AM

She was rude to the other girls, not realizing that she was setting herself up for the Villainess role. She knew how to play Ben and she did. She crowed about her victories (making brazen moves, getting the rose) in her Talking Head segments, not giving a crap about how that made her look or how the other girls might feel.


But was she stupid enough not to realize that Ben would eventually SEE what she was doing when the show aired. Or, did she just not care.

#190

fionab

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Posted Mar 11, 2012 @ 8:39 AM

But was she stupid enough not to realize that Ben would eventually SEE


To steal crickety's excellent point, She could just as easily be 'drunk enough' not to realize that Ben would eventually see.

Courtney strikes me as insecure... not in her looks or her body, but in her interactions with people. (For example, Her ego was easily bruised when Ben didn't visit her room that one night and when it took him a long time to give her another rose.) She seems to need constant reassurance. I think she was worried about keeping the producers happy and one savvy producer realized that they could manipulate her because of that and really milk the sessions where they tape the voice overs to make her even more evil than she really is. (I'm not defending her, I think she was pretty heinous to the other women from day one). Most of her really nasty comments came in the voice-over room, and they were way smarter and wittier than the things she said to the women. I imagine some wily producer would chat with her before she went in and feed her little brain with ideas, she would spout them off to the camera, and then she would get all kinds of kudos from this producer 'friend' when she came out. Courtney was happy because she was getting positive feedback. Fleiss was happy because he was getting a villain. The producer was happy and probably got a nice fat bonus.

Edited by fionab, Mar 11, 2012 @ 8:48 AM.


#191

KittyPierre

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Posted Mar 12, 2012 @ 9:59 AM

Rachel was my favorite this season.

What she was shown making a disgusted face and saying about Shawntel was, if I heard correctly: " . . . because you're a creeper, who drains peoples' blood for a living!!"

Is that so terrible? So bitchy? If a new girl has just stalked thru the room and not said "hello" or anything? Nah. Not so bitchy. Not so shocking, either.

I, too, think Shawntel is a bit of a creeper. I know I'm in the minority, but Shawntel annoyed me in her season, and I, too, would be creeped out by the prospect of moving to her hometown and becoming part of her family. (As she and her family both made clear her lucky potential fiance would have to do.) The general awkward/oddness of her family's ugly home was creepy. And, you know what? Personally, I find the good ole American funeral-home/mortuary business to be deeply exploitative . . . . a bit of a con . . . . and, yes . . . creepy on that score. (See "The American Way of Death" by Jessica Mitford.) I don't care if Shawntel is pretty, or that she has a bit of a "oooohhh she must be cool because I saw it on Six Feet Under" cred going on. She's a creeper.