204 replies to this topic

[Cassis]

Since there's a bit of a Belle discussion going on in the Rumpel thread.


agora said:

To be honest, I think Belle only kissed him because she thought it would give him a supernatural makeover more than anything else; that doesn't mean she betrayed Rumpelstiltskin but it doesn't mean it was true love either, not until the kiss proved that for them.

MorninStar:

Belle as much admitted to Regina on the road that she might love 'her master'/Rumpelstiltskin, but that she felt something evil had taken root in him. That is when Regina implied that a kiss would take away that evil. That is why Belle went back, it wasn't just out of curiosity.

agora:

Might have is not the same thing as being sure of IMO. Same as Rumpelstiltskin didn't know for sure if did love her, this Belle didn't know if she loved him which is why the story went the way it did. If no one would've kissed anybody, we might as well never know that much too.

MorninStar:

As for Belle...

Regina: "You carry very little"
Belle: "I don't want to be slowed down"
Regina: "You're running from someone. Question is, Master or Lover? Ooohh.. Master AND Lover!"
Belle: "I might take a rest.. you go on ahead."
Regina: "So, if I'm right, you love your employer, but you're leaving him."
Belle: "I might love him. I mean I could. 'cept something evil has taken root in him."
Regina: "Sounds like a curse to me. And all curses can be broken. A kiss born of true love would do it. Oh child no, I would never suggest a young woman to kiss a man who kept her captive. What kind of message is that"
Belle: "Right."
Regina: "Besides if he loves you, he would've let you go. And if he doesn't love you, well then, the kiss wouldn't even work"
Belle: " But he did let me go!"
Regina: "Yes, but no kiss happened."
Belle: "And a kiss, a kiss is enough? He'd be a man again?"
Regina: "An ordinary man. True love's kiss will break any curse."

It doesn't sound like mere curiosity or desire for a supernatural make-over on Belle's part to me. It sounds like a woman who believes she is in love, but realizes there is something holding it back/not quite right, and she wants to make it right.

Right. She is not trying to fix Rumpel; she is trying to save him.

IMO, this is where OUAT Belle trumps Disney Belle and for that matter most of the other Beauties: There's definitely no Stockholm Syndrome here, or a girl thinking she can change the bad boy. She "might," "could" (does) love him, but when he gives her the chance to walk, she walks, because love or no love, evil is evil. It's only when Regina makes Belle think that the evil is something separate from the man she loves, something inflicted on him, that she decides to go back and give TLK a whirl.

[oldandnewfirm]

I agree, Cassis. Someone online likened Belle's approach to Rumplestiltskin to the approach of someone trying to save a loved one from an addiction of some kind, and based on her actions that does seem to be Belle's mentality. She loves the man, but not the affliction. And when presented with a way to relieve him of that affliction, she takes it.

[MorninStar]

Precisely. Belle loves 'the man' but not 'the beast'. In kissing Rumpelstiltskin she believed he would become an ordinary man.. a man she believes she might be in love with.. if not for the 'evil taking root in him.' The curse of the Dark One.

[agora]

IMO, this is where OUAT Belle trumps Disney Belle and for that matter most of the other Beauties: There's definitely no Stockholm Syndrome here, or a girl thinking she can change the bad boy. She "might," "could" (does) love him, but when he gives her the chance to walk, she walks, because love or no love, evil is evil. It's only when Regina makes Belle think that the evil is something separate from the man she loves, something inflicted on him, that she decides to go back and give TLK a whirl.

I couldn't disagree more with your opinion, if only because Once Upon a Time did not follow the same structure as the classic fairytale; since Belle was shown to didn't know whether or not she was in love with Rumpelstiltskin, then I can hardly see this as an attempt to save him. Unlike the classic Belle from the classic Beauty and the Beast, I never saw this one rush back to his side because he was dying, she did so because the Queen told her a true love kiss would make him a man and, unlike the Disney version, she didn't walk away from him because he was rude, she did so because he sent her away.

In my opinion, this version is so fundamentally different that it doesn't matter if Belle fell for a Beast, Rumpelstiltskin or one Mr. Gold, she only wants to break a curse, she wants to see if her kiss has the power to do so therefore, to me, this Belle is not searching for true love and, in the realm of fairytales, that's a recipe for losing it.

Edited by agora, Feb 29, 2012 @ 7:34 AM.

[Princess Aldrea]

since Belle was shown to didn't know whether or not she was in love with Rumpelstiltskin, then I can hardly see this as an attempt to save him.

Why should Belle not being positive that she was in love with him mean she wasn't trying to save him? She thinks that he needs to be saved from the curse of the Dark One (even if she doesn't know the specifics about it). If she even thinks that she might be in love with him then that means that she must care a great deal about him. Good people want to save people that they care about from curses if they can, even if they are just friends and not potentially their true love.

Belle might not have been 100% sure that her kiss could save Rumple or that Regina was even telling the truth or right about a kiss being able to break the curse. Just the same, she made an attempt to save him. She didn't know if it would work but she wanted it to. She was so excited when it started to and so devastated when he reacted badly.

It doesn't seem like idle curiousity at all. We didn't really see any evidence that she was overly curious or curious to the point of stupidity like going back and trying to break a curse because she wanted to see if she could would make her.

[MorninStar]

'True Loves Kiss' cannot be faked. It wasn't as if it was a 'first kiss' would break the curse. If Belle were not sincere she wouldn't have even bothered. It's not as if she could just pretend.. if it were magic.. it wouldn't work. She did it because she felt she probably was in love but she loved the man, not the beast.

[Betsypaige1]

I'm glad Belle has her own thread because I adore her. I love Emilie, so I was biased going into Skin Deep, but she really created a character I love (I've never seen Disney's version and I barely know the specifics of the fairy tale in general).

I haven't been able to watch it again since I inadvertently deleted Skin Deep from my DVR, so just going purely on memory and the quotes posted here: I think Belle sensed the good in Rumple, which is why could see herself loving him. She also sensed something tragic in his past and certainly sympathized with him. She seemed excited at the possibility of freeing him, saving him the same way she wanted to save her village - but not just because she wanted to be his savior, but also because she wanted to love him.

I have to say that Belle is a very strong young lady. I loved it when she told Rumple that he made a big mistake in pushing her away; it was almost as if she had made the choice to leave rather than it being his choice that she leave. She's not dependent on him at all - nor on any man - and I love that as well. I hope to see a lot more of her.

[Glass Ocean]

Belle was a willing prisoner and then a humble maidservant/housekeeper while maintaining her own backbone. She seems to be a genuinely kind person who wants to make others happy. I loved it when she pulled down the heavy drapes to unleash sunshine! I saw her actions as trying to make the best of a bad situation at first, then gaining trust as well as sympathy for her "master". I believe her kiss was meant sincerely, as she was willing to unveil the man hiding beneath the monster's veneer.

Now what is she doing hanging out with the dwarves? At least she's dispensing some sage advice from her own experiences, and that seems to indicate that love was part of her equation.

[oneless]

I have to admit I’m kind of nervous about Belle’s fate with Emilie de Ravin staring in another show next season should it be picked up. I was pretty disappointed that Once didn’t sign her on as a regular for Season 2 with all the positive feedback Belle and the Belle/Rumplestilskin relationship got.
Seems to me like next to the Mad Hatter/Jefferson, she was the most beloved guest star so far.
I really hope we will get her Storybrooke name this season, knowing Regina it might really be Margie or Verna. ;)

[mdumont]

Emilie de Ravin can still become a regular next season. Americana may not get picked up as a series. Even if it does, it is also produced by ABC and the studio may decide that they'll get more bang for their buck with Emilie in OUAT than in a freshman evening soap that may or may not be a success. Studios reshoot pilots all the time when a role is recast with a different actor. The premise of the pilot and possible series doesn't sound very interesting so maybe it will all be moot in a few weeks.

Emilie de Ravin probably hasn't signed a contract for the series yet since it hasn't been picked up yet. If she finds herself in a position where she can choose between appearing in a new series that may not even last a whole season and having as major role in a hit series as the love interest for the fabulous Robert Carlyle, it doesn't seem like it would be a hard choice.

[Camera One]

"Once Upon a Time" is an ensemble piece though, and she would still be a supporting character who could be shunted to the background except for the Rumple centrics. Maybe she wants to play a lead instead, since she had already experienced being a supporting player on "Lost".

[Betsypaige1]

Unless you're Gold, Regina, Snow or Charming - or Henry - you're really a supporting character.

I love Emilie, so I can't root against her series being picked up, but on the other hand, I want her to be on Once more often. I really miss her and her character. We've heard nothing about her potential role in the finale, which is frustrating. I think Belle or her Storybrooke counterpart would fit in wonderfully and would be a great addition.

[MorninStar]

Unless you're Gold, Regina, Snow or Charming - or Henry - you're really a supporting character.

Don't forget Emma!

[Betsypaige1]

Oh geez, I have no idea how I forgot Emma, lol.

The cool thing about the show is that all the supporting characters (at least IMO) are just fantastic. Belle made the deepest impression on me and I want to see a lot more of her (since she's part of Rumple/Gold's story, she has to be), but I adore Red, Jefferson, Archie, August, Marco - all of them (and their fairy tale counterparts).

[oneless]

Looks like Americana has a good shot of being picked up: Hollywood Reporter, TVWise.

Emilie de Ravin probably hasn't signed a contract for the series yet since it hasn't been picked up yet. If she finds herself in a position where she can choose between appearing in a new series that may not even last a whole season and having as major role in a hit series as the love interest for the fabulous Robert Carlyle, it doesn't seem like it would be a hard choice.

But what if it isn’t up to Emilie de Ravin, but simply OuaT not having any interest of adding her to the cast? Hence my fear for Belle being killed off or being written out in such a way that would make it hard for her to come back or keeping her appearances next season down to a minimum.

Trying to stay positive: What do you all think of the state of Storybrooke Belle’s memories?
None at all like David until he saw the windmill? Or does she remember the Fairytale World?
If she doesn't and the curse gave her fake memories, it will be interesting to see if Mr. Gold is a stranger to her or someone she only knows because he has business with her father or if the curse twisted their fairytale relationship and she remember having been involved romantically with him in Storybrooke.

Edited by oneless, May 6, 2012 @ 11:38 AM.

[Tricksterson]

She seemed to be in a catatonic state. I suspect she remembers enough to have screwed up her mind.

[Princess Aldrea]

Even if she's not actually catatonic, she's likely been locked up and isolated for twenty-eight years. Why not just stare blankly after all of that?

[Camera One]

But what if it isn’t up to Emilie de Ravin, but simply OuaT not having any interest of adding her to the cast? Hence my fear for Belle being killed off or being written out in such a way that would make it hard for her to come back or keeping her appearances next season down to a minimum.

Hopefully, they can just keep her locked up until the actress is available?

I think they can easily delay the Belle story until later in the series, maybe even the second last or last season. Regina won't be using the Belle card until the point of last resort. I'm actually really NOT looking forward to the point when Regina will ask Rumple to betray Emma/Snow/Henry/etc., or she will kill Belle. It will be used as another setback for the "good guys".

Even if the actress's show is picked up, maybe she can fit in a guest appearance in Season 2, to reveal how she ended up in captivity by Regina.

Edited by Camera One, May 6, 2012 @ 3:23 PM.

[Betsypaige1]

The EPs LOVE Emilie, that much is clear, and they have to know how popular Belle is alone, aside from Belle/Rumpelstiltskin. She's a vital part of the show even if she doesn't show up often simply because of her importance to Mr. Gold/Rumple. I'd be completely disappointed if Emilie is not used as often as her schedule will allow, but then given that I stopped watching Lost because Emilie was hardly used, I suppose I should be used to that.

[oneless]

So after tons of buzz that Americana looked strong and was sure to be picked up, ABC passed on it. Just shows how fickle the business is. Fingers crossed that Once will try to snatch Emilie now.
Did anyone watch the Facebook Live Chat with Kitsis and Horowitz? They were asked if Belle is ever going to be a regular on the show, so I hope they are aware how loved her character is even though she wasn’t on the show that often.

I also saw this:

With Season 1 coming out on Blu-ray on August 28th, do you have any particular favorites on it, as far as the bonus features, deleted scenes and bloopers?

KITSIS: The blooper reel is fun. There’s a really fun building of a character, where you get to see us create Belle and work with Emilie de Ravin, and you get to see a story meeting with us and Emilie that we’re excited about. People will get to see some of the process of how a costume goes from Eduardo Castro’s sketch to being on Ginnifer [Goodwin] for the wedding, and how we pull out some of these effects. That’s fun. And, there’s some good commentary.
collider.com

Only three Episodes and they already treat Emilie and her character better than LOST's TPTB ever did during the 5 Seasons she was on that show. Claire was mostly ignored in all of their bonus stuff.
I can't wait to see this.

[Betsypaige1]

Only three Episodes and they already treat Emilie and her character better than LOST's TPTB ever did during the 5 Seasons she was on that show. Claire was mostly ignored in all of their bonus stuff.
I can't wait to see this.

Based on Kitsis and Horowitz' comments, I'm guessing it wasn't their choice to all but abandon Claire for the last few seasons of the show.

Now that Emilie's pilot wasn't picked up, I think they should snap her up as a regular. It doesn't mean she has to be in it all the time, but at least grab her before she goes to another network, which won't allow her to work on Once.

I would kill for commentary on Skin Deep. Emilie and Robert tweeted again about how excited they were for tonight and it seems like they really got along well.

Edited by Betsypaige1, May 13, 2012 @ 6:28 PM.

[Tricksterson]

From the ending of the finale i would say she'll definitely be back, at least as a recurring character.

[Betsypaige1]

Belle is going to be a significant player in season 2 and going forward if for no other reason than that she's attached to one of the main characters. I think it's not going to be easy for them as long as Rumple still values his power, but it's a journey I'm willing to take because I think it will work out.

To repeat, they need to sign Emilie as a regular so that she doesn't get work with another network (which would completely complicate her ability to return to Once).

[oneless]

I would kill for commentary on Skin Deep. Emilie and Robert tweeted again about how excited they were for tonight and it seems like they really got along well.

Jane Espenson, the writer for the episode tweeted a while ago that there would be commentary for Skin Deep. No word on who will be on it though.

Last nights reunion was bittersweet for me, because as much as I loved Belle remembering and the "I love you's", part of me wanted to see Mr. Gold courting Miss French with fake Storybrooke memories of their past relationship complicating matters. Well there's still a lot of fanfiction like this out there. ;)
I'm really looking forward to more Belle next Season. I have a feeling once she has it more together, she's not going to be very happy with what Rumplestiltskin did.

[Betsypaige1]

Jane Espenson, the writer for the episode tweeted a while ago that there would be commentary for Skin Deep. No word on who will be on it though. Last nights reunion was bittersweet for me, because as much as I loved Belle remembering and the "I love you's", part of me wanted to see Mr. Gold courting Miss French with fake Storybrooke memories of their past relationship complicating matters. Well there's still a lot of fanfiction like this out there. ;) I'm really looking forward to more Belle next Season. I have a feeling once she has it more together, she's not going to be very happy with what Rumplestiltskin did.

She did? Yah - thanks! I hope hope hope it's Emilie and Robert. Keep in mind that Belle was locked up for 28 years by Regina; she's not going to feel so kindly towards her. It's more about what Rumple intends to do that might bother her. We'll have to wait and see.

Edited by Betsypaige1, May 14, 2012 @ 5:02 PM.

[agora]

Last nights reunion was bittersweet for me, because as much as I loved Belle remembering and the "I love you's", part of me wanted to see Mr. Gold courting Miss French with fake Storybrooke memories of their past relationship complicating matters.

I try to think of them as completey different Beauty and the Beast than the one from the fairytale, it makes it less complicated.

[Betsypaige1]

I watched clips of Skin Deep and the Rumbelle reunion from the finale last night - made awfully nice viewing. I hadn't seen any part of Skin Deep since it first aired and thoroughly enjoyed seeing Emilie play such a strong, spirited character. I loved the speech she gave to Rumple about why she went along with him (she wanted a chance to play hero in a time and place that often wasn't kind to women) and what it meant to her. Perhaps that is when he started falling in love with her - clearly she was not some empty-headed princess designed merely to decorate a man's arm, but an intelligent person who was cut out to do important things. I love that the writers gave Emilie a chance to shine because while I loved her in Lost, she really didn't have that much to do. Robert is absolutely brilliant and she stood toe to toe with him; as a fan, I'm just thrilled (and she looked great).

I mentioned in another thread that I thought it was very interesting that while we got to see the curse-breaking shock waves hit all the major characters, we did not get to see it hit Belle. I think that scene where she remembers Gold as Rumple was so beautifully done and more meaningful that it came out of nowhere. I know many Rumbelle fans were disappointed in the lack of a kiss, but to me the hug and the "I love yous" were much more significant. He would do anything for her - he truly loves and missed Belle (and frankly, I think he needs her). For her part, I loved that she said "I love you first". I think now she was on her way back to him when Regina kidnapped her, but perhaps we'll find out more in season 2.

[Aliasscape]

Perhaps that is when he started falling in love with her - clearly she was not some empty-headed princess designed merely to decorate a man's arm, but an intelligent person who was cut out to do important things.

This brings up a point I hadn't really thought about . Belle always was a commoner in the original stories and the Disney movie. In Once, it appeared she was of some form of nobility but not royalty. Belle became a princess because she married a prince. But Rumpel is powerful, not royal. So this Belle really doesn't have princess in her past or future unless she marries somebody else.

[Betsypaige1]

This brings up a point I hadn't really thought about . Belle always was a commoner in the original stories and the Disney movie. In Once, it appeared she was of some form of nobility but not royalty. Belle became a princess because she married a prince. But Rumpel is powerful, not royal. So this Belle really doesn't have princess in her past or future unless she marries somebody else.

I didn't know that as I never saw the Disney movie - that's interesting. It's really ok if she doesn't turn out to be a princess, though. I've never been all that big on them anyway!

[Princess Aldrea]

clearly she was not some empty-headed princess designed merely to decorate a man's arm,

Have we seen any of those in Once Upon a Time?