Jump to content

20-8: 2012.02.20


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.

262 replies to this topic

#241

GlamSnooky

GlamSnooky

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 26, 2012 @ 10:00 PM

And yet.....even recognizing how deeply he and his daughter loved each other, and even accounting for generational and cultural differences, I wanted to vomit at all the "I gave your hand too readily" talk. It's 2012, dammit, and women's "hands" (read: reproductive organs) do not belong to their fathers.

ITA. I kind of get doing it for a first wedding, out of tradition, but a second marriage, when the daughter's not even living at home--there's nothing for the dad to be giving! She's not his property (not that she ever was), and she's definitely not his fiscal responsibility at that point. Even in a first marriage, if she's not under 18 and his legal responsibility, he's not really giving anything to the guy she's chosen to marry, because he does not own her. It kind of grossed me out.

#242

backformore

backformore

    Fanatic

Posted Feb 26, 2012 @ 11:11 PM

makemelaugh:

since all of the b'ettes and b's are old enough to be out on their own, I would rather see where they live today than their family homes or fake-homes unless they live there too). That would show us and the B'ette/B a lot more about what kind of people they are than where their parents live. I'd also much rather see their friends than their families (but Mommy and Daddy and siblings and cute/cranky little grandparents can come too if they want).

garden:

I'm all for sentimentality, but not when it involves women being treated like children/property, etc. Outside of The Bachelor, do many people still ask fathers for the woman's hand? I thought The Bachelor liked this specifically because it was outdated.


I agree with both of these views. If you're 19 or 20, and never lived on your own, things are different. But on this show everyone is older than that, have careers, have had relationships - as is the trend these past 20 years. "Hometown visits" should be about where the women live and work, what their lives are about, not what their pasts were.
And asking the father's hand in marriage? Since the B is going to several homes and meeting all the dads, is he really expected to ask ALL the fathers for permission to marry their daughters?
I've been married over 20 years, and we DISCUSSED marriage with my parents -announcing the engagement to them before telling anyone else, and then discussed the arrangements, date, etc. But there was never any asking permission. And I don't think any of my friends did that either.

There are weird discrepancies on this show. The weird 'traditional' part where the guy has to meet the parents and get approval/ask permission. And then, there's the "fantasy suite" episode, where the Bachelor gets to "test drive" each woman before selecting one. Or is that also some weird antiquated tradition I'm not aware of?

#243

GlamSnooky

GlamSnooky

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 26, 2012 @ 11:21 PM

I, too, noticed for the first time the commercial calling for applicants to be THE NEXT BACHELOR. They had been running commercials calling for bachelors to apply to be on The Bachelorette. This really caught my attention. Looks like fresh meat for the next Bachelor.

I was very excited by the change in ad voice-overs! For a long time, it's been "If you want to DATE the next (bachelor/bachelorette)..." Gives me hope they actually plan to have a fresh face, not one of Emily's cast-offs. We shall see, we know Fleiss LOVES this chain he's created.

#244

MarkHB

MarkHB

    Stalker

  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Maine

Posted Feb 27, 2012 @ 1:04 PM

Wanting a casual lunchtime meal, Chef Greg LaPrad and Chef Andiario of Quiessence, created a picnic basket featuring their handcrafted charcuterie....


She arranged for bacon?!?!?! I don't care if she is a conniving, deceitful beeyotch, all is forgiven and I'm in love with her now!

To be worried what other people think about Courtney at this point is pathetic. He's had ample evidence (with her being a bitch right in front of him) of Courtney's true character. Obviously he is unbothered by her many, many flaws, so trying to please everyone else now is ridiculous.


I'm thinking that he isn't worried about what the other girls think because of... worrying about what they think. I think he's just starting to worry about whether Courtney is likely to embarrass him in front of his friends.

#245

Vexer

Vexer

    Fanatic

Posted Feb 27, 2012 @ 1:19 PM

I don't think Courtney arranged for bacon for herself, didn't one of the other b'ettes call her a "doe eyed vegan"? I wouldn't think vegan came out of nowhere

#246

boggartlaura

boggartlaura

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 27, 2012 @ 2:12 PM

I agree with both of these views. If you're 19 or 20, and never lived on your own, things are different. But on this show everyone is older than that, have careers, have had relationships - as is the trend these past 20 years. "Hometown visits" should be about where the women live and work, what their lives are about, not what their pasts were.

But someone's family isn't just their past - it's their present and future too. As overused as the "family is important" line is, I can't imagine agreeing to marry someone without knowing their parents.

The best would be bringing the parents to the contestant's current home.

#247

MsSweatpants

MsSweatpants

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 27, 2012 @ 2:26 PM

Since all of the b'ettes and b's are old enough to be out on their own, I would rather see where they live today than their family homes or fake-homes unless they live there too). That would show us and the B'ette/B a lot more about what kind of people they are than where their parents live.


Chantal took Brad to her own place, as well as to her parents' home. At the time, I remarked to Mr. Sweatpants that I wish more of the contestants would do that.

My husband asked for my parents' blessing, not their permission, as Amath stated above. He had the ring and talked to them before proposing. They were all for it, and I don't find the tradition offensive, though we'd have gotten married even if they didn't agree. That seems to be the norm around here; most of my friends' husbands did the same.

What I do think is odd, though, is the pretense of tradition on a skeevy reality show -- "Hey, Pops, if I don't cut your daughter loose tonight, and she performs satisfactorily on the Fantasy Date, I might want to propose. Or I might propose to one of the other three. Thoughts?" What father says yes to that?

#248

felicity porter

felicity porter

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Feb 27, 2012 @ 6:16 PM

My husband asked for my parents' blessing, not their permission, as Amath stated above. He had the ring and talked to them before proposing. They were all for it, and I don't find the tradition offensive, though we'd have gotten married even if they didn't agree. That seems to be the norm around here; most of my friends' husbands did the same.


This rings true to me. Even in cases where the question comes out as "May I marry your daughter?" I always assumed the subtext was "Your daughter and I have already made a decision. We really would just like your blessing. If you say no, we're probably still gonna get married."

#249

jjj343

jjj343

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Feb 27, 2012 @ 9:06 PM

My husband spoke to my father before proposing. He was going to propose irregardless of whether or not my father approved, so he figured it would be a nice gesture to make without any negative consequences.

#250

Canada

Canada

    Couch Potato

Posted Feb 28, 2012 @ 7:58 AM

Oops, wrong thread.

Edited by Canada, Feb 28, 2012 @ 12:56 PM.


#251

donnaphdp

donnaphdp

    Just Tuned In

Posted Feb 28, 2012 @ 8:10 PM

First time here, so if I'm crossing any lines here, posting in the wrong place, please do let me know. This post is about b'ettes who have been sent home being permitted to return. Does anyone else agree with me that it's not the right thing to do? The bachelor has made his decision, and it isn't fair to the bachelor nor to the remaining women. It just seems unethical to "undo" his choice. Not to mention has disturbing and uncomfortable it has to be. What do you guys think?

#252

stinamaia

stinamaia

    Fanatic

Posted Feb 29, 2012 @ 5:43 PM

Of course, I hate the returning ejectee. Itís embarrassing all the way around. Cringeworthy. But, the producers love this gimmick, and I guess maybe they think we will fall for it time after time.

What struck me about the episode was that when Ben was having is faux moment about how Courtney treated the other women, he said that it made it hard on HIM. Such a narcissist. Not that he was worried about Courtneyís character or the other women, but that it reflected badly on him and made it difficult for him. Sorry, I ever thought Ben might be a decent bachelor. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

And Iím sorry because of how difficult itís made it for ME.

#253

Kali12

Kali12

    Fanatic

Posted Mar 1, 2012 @ 1:45 AM

What struck me about the episode was that when Ben was having is faux moment about how Courtney treated the other women, he said that it made it hard on HIM. Such a narcissist. Not that he was worried about Courtneyís character or the other women, but that it reflected badly on him and made it difficult for him. Sorry, I ever thought Ben might be a decent bachelor. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.

Perfect! I just saw that part and there is just nothing likable or attractive about him at all. If he at least had some compassion and empathy--thought about someone ELSE for a change--he might seem appealing.

And it wouldn't hurt if he were a little bit smart, or had a sense of humor or even shaved once in a while. But the main thing is that he really is such a narcissist. "It's so hard on me to send these women home. It's so hard on me to have to listen to them talk and then--it's HARD that I have to come up with something to SAY! No one understands how tough this is for MEEEEEE!!!!"

I'm looking forward to seeing him dumped (because I don't think Courtney cares at all--she seems completely fake in every scene--and yet its been obvious from the beginning that she's The One.)

Oh, and how these women know he's "dating" other girls and don't, apparently, try to figure out who it is he really likes always puzzles me. There are so many clues! Through all the time they lived together why didn't they see them?

Plus, he's so darned COLD (Switzerland aside) on the dates! Why why why do they think this is love????

Edited by Kali12, Mar 1, 2012 @ 2:01 AM.


#254

SaberTail

SaberTail

    Couch Potato

  • Gender:Female

Posted Mar 2, 2012 @ 12:54 PM

For all members of The Pronoun Police, this is from KCB's exit interview:

"that would have been one of Ben and I's decisions ..."

#255

wordperson

wordperson

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Mar 3, 2012 @ 9:16 AM

I don't read spoilers but it's pretty hard not to see the headlines on the gossip mags at CVS...

Ben just wants to date a model!



EDITED to say I didn't mean anything as a spoiler. I don't know the answer and I don't know who he'll pick. It's just a guess based on what I see on the TV like everybody else and I can't completely miss the magazine headlines.

Edited by wordperson, Mar 3, 2012 @ 7:04 PM.


#256

Spyral

Spyral

    Loyal Viewer

  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted Mar 3, 2012 @ 12:25 PM

I don't read spoilers but it's pretty hard not to see the headlines on the gossip mags at CVS.


Has this been addressed anywhere here? How are the magazines able to report the final outcome already?

#257

commenter

commenter

    Couch Potato

Posted Mar 3, 2012 @ 1:04 PM

I don't read spoilers but it's pretty hard not to see the headlines on the gossip mags at CVS...

Ben just wants to date a model!

... is how I would have posted that if I were posting it in this thread (I think there are other Bachelor sub-threads where it doesn't need a spoiler tag). I have avoided gossip mags at CVS etc., but that line gives plenty away, so covering it helps.

Has this been addressed anywhere here? How are the magazines able to report the final outcome already?

I really wish they couldn't/wouldn't or that they'd put it inside the magazines and not the covers. I keep my eyes averted at the checkout counter to avoid spoilers on a few shows.

#258

Kali12

Kali12

    Fanatic

Posted Mar 4, 2012 @ 4:18 AM

Courtney always seems like she's acting, with that sweet little voice--except when she's with the women and drops it completely. I've never seen a b-ette who seemed so fake and insincere.

Why do they all cry over him?

Maybe that's why I keep watching this dreck, season after season. I can't understand why/how the women get so wrapped up in men who couldn't care less.

And I just don't understand why the women are blindsided when they're dumped. At this late stage, they see three or four other women who all are equally "dating" their "boyfriend". He seems to like each of them and they are all getting more serious about him. Why is it such a surprise ALWAYS that you aren't the chosen one?

These women never seem to think about, "Maybe he likes one (or more) of them better than he likes me." and "I wonder which of us he is going to choose this week?" and "Does he act like he's more interested in someone else?"

When you tell your "boyfriend" that another woman doesn't care about him and is a bitch, and he KEEPS her, that probably shows he doesn't really value your opinion.

Of course, it would be clever to keep fake Courtney around to F2 so you know you aren't hurting anyone who "deserves better". But Ben's not smart enough to strategize over this--and he doesn't seem to care about hurting feelings.

But, biggest mystery? Again, why TB women are continually blindsided by TB choosing someone else.

#259

JudyObscure

JudyObscure

    Fanatic

  • Gender:Female

Posted Mar 4, 2012 @ 9:54 AM

These women never seem to think about, "Maybe he likes one (or more) of them better than he likes me."

I know Kali! when the show first starts I'm always reminded of the line from Designing Women when Julia Sugarbaker was talking about the Miss Georgia contest her sister won. "When she walked out in her swimsuit, 20 girls quit on the spot." I would have taken one look at Casey, Courtney, Rachel and Blakely and quit on the spot, but our girls all seem to think they have something with which no other woman can compete. It keeps me from feeling too terribly sorry for them when they ride off in tears.

#260

SaberTail

SaberTail

    Couch Potato

  • Gender:Female

Posted Mar 4, 2012 @ 10:27 AM

I would have taken one look at Casey, Courtney, Rachel and Blakely and quit on the spot, but our girls all seem to think they have something with which no other woman can compete. It keeps me from feeling too terribly sorry for them when they ride off in tears.

I seem to remember Casey, Rachel and Blakely riding off in tears. So there's that.

Edited by SaberTail, Mar 4, 2012 @ 10:28 AM.


#261

Kali12

Kali12

    Fanatic

Posted Mar 4, 2012 @ 1:20 PM

I would have taken one look at Casey, Courtney, Rachel and Blakely and quit on the spot, but our girls all seem to think they have something with which no other woman can compete.

That's exactly it--they seem so confident, in a strange way. And yet, most (all?) of them have been rejected before (even Courtney, accd. to her THs), so it's not as if this confidence comes from never having been disappointed or dumped before.

I just don't understand why there doesn't seem to be any conversation along the lines of, "I had a good time with him, but I think he might like (fill in name--or two!) more."

I also wonder how they can have watched this show and not learned this--or that the FS is ALWAYS a set-up for, imo, misleading intimacy in which TB sleeps with OTHERS, too. Then dumps one--and it could be you!

It's not S1. They've all seen every TB kiss girls he wasn't going to choose, have fun with girls he wasn't going to choose, and urge all of the above to "be open about your feelings." But then he is forbidden from saying, "I love you" back to them, even while they're pouring out their hearts (and, many, so sincerely believing they really do "love" this man they barely know).

It's a competition for a guy who cannot, by the rules, be completely honest with you. They see and hear that he's dating the others. How can anyone be surprised when they are dumped?

#262

SaberTail

SaberTail

    Couch Potato

  • Gender:Female

Posted Mar 4, 2012 @ 1:59 PM

But then he is forbidden from saying, "I love you" back to them

Is this true? I seem to remember other Bs say that, or "I'm falling in love with you," but the seasons run together for me. I sincerely doubt he is "forbidden" to say the L word though; it would help make each episode The.Most.Dramatic.EVAH. Seems there was one B who told each of the late contenders that he loved them, which made for some raking over in these threads and in the gossip rags.

Some girl talk back at the house shown during dates has the ladies debating whether the B will like so-and-so or send her home or whether he has a good connection with the datee and so on. So I'm sure the status of many of the B-ettes is discussed even more when not on camera. I mean, what else is there to talk about while these ladies are in quarantine?

It's a competition for a guy who cannot, by the rules, be completely honest with you.

TB's purpose is suppose to be a "journey" for a B (or B-ette, depending on the season) to find love and a spouse from a selection of attractive applicants. The goal is for the B to find his future wife and for America to fall for the fairy tale and go "Awww" when he proposes and she accepts. Or at least that's the publicized goal. Whether the women are there to "win" a man so they can travel/drink more than the other women, pump up a modeling career, get a hosting job on teevee, get their 15 minutes, make themselves available to men watching the show, get on Bachelor Pad ... well, those are all individual goals. I'm guessing one or two are there to really try to find "love." Of course, the B has to have that as his goal too, unlike Ben, who has never once said that's why he is on the show.

Edited by SaberTail, Mar 4, 2012 @ 2:22 PM.


#263

isotonerz

isotonerz

    Fanatic

  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted Mar 5, 2012 @ 3:35 PM

These women never seem to think about, "Maybe he likes one (or more) of them better than he likes me."

This is true. I think thatís the main reason for the resentment of Courtney Ė especially among the 8th grader types like Emily and Kacie. I donít really think Emily cares that much about Ben, she just doesnít want Courtney to have him. Ditto for Kacie, who (imo) is a vindictive, jealous idiot. They are both absolutely obsessed with Courtney. OTOH, Lindzi seems to actually want to build a relationship with him.