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S27: Kat


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#31

FrogsRule

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Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 2:20 AM

I want Kat to be in F3, because I would love to see her artless (free from guile or craft, sincerely simple) responses to jury questions. I am *shocked* to find myself rooting for her to be #2.
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#32

SpeciousLogic

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Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 9:45 AM

I want Kat to be in F3, because I would love to see her artless (free from guile or craft, sincerely simple) responses to jury questions. I am *shocked* to find myself rooting for her to be #2.


That would be fun to see. I think she's a bit of a Survivor idiot savant, and her FTC speech would either be awkward (and funny) as hell, or the complete opposite ("The time has come to lift this facade of ineptitude and show you the real Kat. 'What's an appendix, and how do I catch it?', 'Ooh, who put bacon on my BLT?' -- you know how hard it was to spew that drivel without cracking? Especially with Tarzan throwing out his 2nd-rate intellectualisms at every TC. Kim was just a figurehead, I'm the one who was running this game, see? All those split votes? My idea. If someone broke rank and it backfired, it would be Kim's ass going home, not mine. Oh, and I'm freakin' fantastic at puzzles.")
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#33

FrogsRule

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Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 4:15 PM

SpeciousLogic, if she did that, she not only would win Survivor, she would be crowned Queen of the Universe. ;-)
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#34

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Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 6:59 PM

SpeciousLogic's fantasy about Kat's big reveal at FTC reminds me of an old SNL skit where the late, great Phil Hartman played Ronald Reagan as a public boob but a strategic genius in private.


http://www.youtube.c...h?v=skQuhoG7fFM
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#35

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Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 7:03 PM

The latest promo indicates that she'll play a big part in the next episode. I just hope it's misdirection and that she doesn't turn on the other women.
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#36

SpeciousLogic

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Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 9:20 PM

an old SNL skit where the late, great Phil Hartman played Ronald Reagan as a public boob but a strategic genius in private.


How bizarre, that is precisely what was going through my mind when I pictured Kat's reveal. You're psychic.

One of my all-time favorite skits, and I watched it when it was actually "live" (yeah, I'm dating myself here). Nowadays whenever someone mentions Reagan, it's Phil I picture.
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#37

Yogurt Baron

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Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 11:47 PM

(The actual leader of the alliance) was just a figurehead, I'm the one who was running this game, see?


Sophie pulled off this exact thing---useless bottom-of-Coach's-alliance cannon fodder for 38 days, had the chutzpah to pretend she wasn't at FTC, won because everybody hated Coach. I don't know why more players haven't tried it over the years. I don't, however, think Kim is going to be as hated as Coach by her jury.
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#38

Bob Sambob

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Posted Apr 21, 2012 @ 12:17 AM

Sophie pulled off this exact thing---useless bottom-of-Coach's-alliance cannon fodder for 38 days, had the chutzpah to pretend she wasn't at FTC, won because everybody hated Coach.

Hard to read this last passage because of all the blood coming out of my eyes. Jesus.
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#39

gullytwin

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Posted Apr 21, 2012 @ 7:41 AM

Kat is interesting, and I've known people like her, from whom astonishly clueless things emanate, but not really "dumb" in any sense of the word that matters -- fully functioning emotionally, vocationally, understanding what is important in the world, but somehow just prone to groaners like Kat's jumpomania, appendophobia, and bacostonishment.

Kat seems to function well in the tribe and understand the dynamics of the game as well as or better than most on the island.

She sure is good for a laugh, though. My whole family has spent the week expressing mock incredulity and the mundane in her honor: seventeen-year-old opens the fridge and exclaims "Hey, you guys, look, there's MILK in here!!!"
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#40

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Posted Apr 21, 2012 @ 4:54 PM

Gullytwin, your seventeen-year-old should become a TWoPper!

You know, if players on Survivor feel compelled to adopt a fake persona, I wish more of them would "do" Kat in the future.
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#41

Yogurt Baron

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Posted Apr 21, 2012 @ 7:42 PM

On the Kat-intellect argument...I've read that the highest IQ ever cast was Heidi Strobel. The player I consider to be not only the best ever, but the socially smartest ever, used the word "expecially" on numerous occasions. I can't think of any good moves on Kat's part---except for her subtle fishing for Jay's jury vote in his boot episode---but other than Kim, she's the only one left who hasn't made any glaring bad moves. Fabio was just "the dumb one" at this (and every) point of his season too. I see a few (very narrow) paths to victory for her:

1. Goats unite. If the four who logic suggests can't possibly win (Greg, Alicia, Kat, Christina) band together, Kat's by a mile the most palatable of the four---the Fabio to the other three's...whatever three people were on Nicaragua.

2. Sabrina topples Kim somehow and ends up the power player of the F3. Kim uses her Kim skills to turn the jury against her.

3. Kim takes Kat and Chelsea to F3; Kim Kimmels; Kat is Todd Herzog.

Not great paths, but she's in reasonable shape, I think.

Hard to read this last passage because of all the blood coming out of my eyes. Jesus.


Aw, Bob. I didn't mean to make all the blood come out of your eyes. Just, you know, a small amount of blood. :) I have just purchased South Pacific on iTunes, and shall rewatch it with an open mind. In the meantime, I will stop comparing Sophie to Kat. Or to Natalie T. if the RI jury had been dumber. Or to Dreamz if he'd suddenly given a great FTC performance. Or to Wanda from Palau if they'd kept her as a goat, and Tom had taken her to F2, and then Tom had injured himself before FTC and been taken out of the game and Wanda had won by default.

(Those ones were jokes! For the love of God, man, go to the emergency room, and perhaps an optometrist, before it's too late!)
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#42

BDArizona

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Posted Apr 21, 2012 @ 9:37 PM

I can't think of any good moves on Kat's part---except for her subtle fishing for Jay's jury vote in his boot episode---but other than Kim, she's the only one left who hasn't made any glaring bad moves. Fabio was just "the dumb one" at this (and every) point of his season too.

I don't think Kat is playing dumb, just like I don't think Fabio was playing dumb. I think both of them are dumb. That said, dumb isn't always a horrible thing. Kat's a sweet girl. I like her. I think she's fairly good socially, but intellectually inept. Kind of like some sort of reverse autism. (And, no, that's not some sort of diagnosis; it's just a simile.)

That said, I think it would be intensely stupid for Kim and Chelsea to pick Kat as their #3. I think that she, like Fabio, could take the game because the jury would see her as harmless. She wouldn't be the one they fixate on, like Kim will be. Troy, especially, will be angry at and bitter towards Kim if she gets to the end and he doesn't. Depending on how things go down, maybe some of the other women from Kim's alliance would be, too. Which would mean Kat could sneak in and win, simply because Kim didn't manage to get to the end in such a way that she could win. It would be a Rob-Amber situation where Kim would lose it, rather than Kat winning it. I hope that doesn't go down, but I could see it happening very easily. If Kim gets that far, she needs Kat to go by #4.
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#43

chelonia

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 9:26 AM

I don't think Kat is playing dumb, just like I don't think Fabio was playing dumb. I think both of them are dumb.


I'd be interested in your explanation of her comments on strategy then. She seems to have a pretty good grasp for someone who is supposed to be dumb.
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#44

yoshi

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 11:41 AM

I'd be interested in your explanation of her comments on strategy then. She seems to have a pretty good grasp for someone who is supposed to be dumb.


I can't answer for him, but I agree that Kat's dumb. Not mentally handicapped or anything, just not very smart. It doesn't take a genius to understand and employ basic Survivor strategy.
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#45

neplusultra

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 12:52 PM

Goats unite. If the four who logic suggests can't possibly win (Greg, Alicia, Kat, Christina) band together, Kat's by a mile the most palatable of the four---the Fabio to the other three's...whatever three people were on Nicaragua.


Hey, it's a variation of my all-goat alliance. :) So, Yogurt Baron: you are envisioning Kat's path including her winning the IC at F4? Or you think the two women would take her along instead of Greg/Tarzan, worrying about the guys' votes, even though we clearly see that as a mistake?

Edited by neplusultra, Apr 22, 2012 @ 12:53 PM.

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#46

BDArizona

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 11:59 PM

I can't answer for him, but I agree that Kat's dumb. Not mentally handicapped or anything, just not very smart. It doesn't take a genius to understand and employ basic Survivor strategy.

This does a fairly good job of answering for me (but I'm a "her"--heh). As I said in my original post, I think she has good social skills. That makes her a fairly good player. Not anywhere near great, but solid. That doesn't make her smart.
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#47

Yogurt Baron

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 2:42 AM

Hey, it's a variation of my all-goat alliance. :) So, Yogurt Baron: you are envisioning Kat's path including her winning the IC at F4? Or you think the two women would take her along instead of Greg/Tarzan, worrying about the guys' votes, even though we clearly see that as a mistake?


I hadn't really thought that far ahead. I do think she could probably beat the other three at an IC, and then probably boot Greg. Alternately, yeah, if I were Alicia and Christina, I'd be more worried about Greg as an FTC opponent than Kat. Kat has the same quality that a lot of the least-respected winners have: people assume she can't possibly win. They won't see any danger in taking her to F3. In fact, I think Kim probably should take her to F3. But if she's up there against people like Alicia and Christina instead of people like Kim and Chelsea, she could have a shot.
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#48

chelonia

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 11:08 AM

I can't answer for him, but I agree that Kat's dumb. Not mentally handicapped or anything, just not very smart. It doesn't take a genius to understand and employ basic Survivor strategy.


I've seen plenty of Survivors who couldn't handle it, many of them in this very season, and Kat is not one of them. By your reasoning, a lot of people are even dumber than Kat in One World.

I've known a few scatter-brained geniuses in my time, by the way. I'm not claiming Kat is a genius but the evidence for calling her dumb doesn't convince me at all. If I covered you 24/7 with a sound and camera team I bet I could make you look just as dumb as they've made Kat.

Edited by chelonia, Apr 25, 2012 @ 11:09 AM.

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#49

enlightenedbum

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 3:01 PM

She's definitely ignorant. My impression as to her actual intelligence fluctuates wildly from week to week.
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#50

yoshi

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 3:52 PM

If I covered you 24/7 with a sound and camera team I bet I could make you look just as dumb as they've made Kat.


Not knowing what your appendix is? Not knowing a BLT has bacon? Trying to beat a $20 bid with a $20 bid? Constantly jumping in during the beam challenge when she didn't have to and was told not to?

She's clearly not that smart, but she seems very sweet. I bet you would have a hard time finding similarly dumb examples from the other contestants this season. Even Chelsea's "we'll just vote you out because we would have 3 and you would have 5 if your plan works" was in the heat of the moment and may have just been a (rather lame) attempt to deny that Troyzan's plan was feasible.
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#51

neplusultra

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 5:58 PM

I'm with you, yoshi. TwoPers seem like a pretty smart bunch, and I don't think there are many who, even with a camera following them 24/7, could get caught saying groaners like those. Embarrassing or silly moments, sure. But not flat out ignorant statements like hers.

Still, I do agree that she's very sweet, and appears to have a modicum of social intelligence (which should, along with her stunning good looks, help her in her job selling timeshares).
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#52

FrogsRule

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 4:19 AM

I was surprised to see negative comments about Kat in the extra footage tonight (all linked in the episode thread). Troy of course had negative things to say about Kat, but then, he has negative things to say about All Women Everyone Upon The Face Of The Earth.

But both Chelsea and Alicia seemed relieved that Kat wasn't the third. One of them even noted that if Kat had been there, it wouldn't have been a peaceful reward, because she's too loud.

That's not at all how she is being edited. Is she really Sugar V2.0?
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#53

goofygirl

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 11:32 AM

Bad news Kat honey. you ARE a follower! And a WEAK player!
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#54

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 2:15 PM

Alicia calling Kat “loud” is a laff riot. No one is louder than Alicia.

For me, a Kat win would be like a Fabio/Judd win, except Kat doesn’t really charm me. I don’t like her. Yes, she’s cute and adorable, but she’s also annoying.
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#55

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 2:15 PM

I don't even get what that snit was all about, anyway. She's been on a reward. The week Jay went home, she went on that reward after being one of the people largely responsible for her team winning it.
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#56

chelonia

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 6:23 PM

yoshi, you're right, some of these aren't the sort of silly blunders we all make in the course of a day or so. I think anyone could get confused at an auction, and I'm not sure the bacon comment wasn't more of a taunt, but the appendix and jumping in the water things, well...

I still think she's getting the "dumb" edit and isn't as bad as they've made her out. I just don't see someone who understands strategy and the social game that well as being outright dumb. None of us actually know her, so we're all guessing anyway.
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#57

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 7:00 PM

I get the feeling that Kat is just one of those people that just speaks before she thinks and hence the ridiculous things that come out of her mouth. She may not be the martest person out there but I don't think she is as dumb as she is portrayed.

Edited by LanceM, Apr 26, 2012 @ 7:01 PM.

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#58

SpeciousLogic

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 7:09 PM

I noticed that in the RC when they had the question about the "poseur", the camera flashed to Kat with a confused look on her face (and maybe a gong?) as if to suggest that she had no clue what the word meant. But she didn't say or do anything that actually made me think she didn't know, and she got the question right, so I'm taking this as a sign that editing is really playing up her "dumb as a rock" profile.
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#59

Unconditional

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 9:03 AM

For me, a Kat win would be like a Fabio/Judd win, except Kat doesn’t really charm me. I don’t like her. Yes, she’s cute and adorable, but she’s also annoying.


The difference would be that at least Judd was well-liked by almost everyone that made the merge, and had to win challenges in order to get to the FTC to earn his win. The longer that the show goes on and the more extra footage that we get, we see that people don't actually like Kat.

I don't really care for her either. She clearly is a dumb person even if production is trying to intensify that through the narrative, but I find her more annoying than dumb. She is a follower. She is a weak player. Maybe she's just not self-aware and this after experiencing this show and watching it play out will teach her that life lesson.
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#60

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 9:09 AM

Kat's face radiates stupidity in a way that the faces of people of average or above average intelligence do not.

Not that intelligence necessarily means much in this game if you can get to the end, see Fabio of Nicaragua.
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