104 replies to this topic

[Paron Xanthis]

Hi. Is it a bad sign I find myself most like Redemption Island's Kristina?

Me: Maybe not, if you don't find an unreliable, Phillip-like ally.

[BDArizona]

Is it a bad sign I find myself most like Redemption Island's Kristina?

Me: Maybe not, if you don't find an unreliable, Phillip-like ally.

I actually liked that she said that. I really thought Kristina could have been a force in RI. I think she was the only one on that tribe who would have ever challenged Rob. Her ouster made way for a boring season. I'd like to see someone like Kristina get a shot at actually playing the game. If this Christina can do it, more power to her.

[Yogurt Baron]

I really thought Kristina could have been a force in RI. I think she was the only one on that tribe who would have ever challenged Rob. Her ouster made way for a boring season. I'd like to see someone like Kristina get a shot at actually playing the game. If this Christina can do it, more power to her.

I don't get it. Rob took Kristina out because she was too obvious and too inept about wanting to challenge him. If you get booted because you take on a bigshot and can't beat him, that's not you not "getting a shot at actually playing the game"; that's you playing the game wrong, and then losing because you suck. A good player can make things happen, or knows not to try if they can't - Kristina's 0-for-2 on that.

I hate Rob as much as I've ever hated anybody who walked onto my TV, and his win can be attributed in large part to Kristina not being effective at challenging Rob. Jenna Lewis, the chick who spent all of season 1 tanning, was able to sell the all-stars cast on voting out the winners first---Kristina understood the similar concept that Rob was too big a threat, but wasn't good enough at the same to sell it to the others. Wasn't as good a player as Jenna Lewis.

Anyone who wants to be like/thinks they are like Kristina is cannon fodder. I hate camera-hogging Power Players like RI Rob and any-season Russell Hantz, but I almost hate idiots like Kristina more, because when they make stupid moves too early and get voted out over it, it makes it harder for anyone else to challenge the Power Player's authority when it actually comes down to it, and then the jerk gets a free ticket to FTC.

Here's hoping this Christina thought the question was, "Which Survivor are you named most like?" Otherwise, she might ruin the whole season.

(ETA: Having to read her profile, she likens herself to Francesca too. Yes, because the best way to win on Survivor is to be an amalgam of the two people who came in last and third-last on the worst season ever. I'm really hoping for a Palau Wanda situation where this woman doesn't even get into the game, because ugh.)

Edited by Yogurt Baron, Jan 29, 2012 @ 5:10 AM.

[BDArizona]

I don't get it. Rob took Kristina out because she was too obvious and too inept about wanting to challenge him. If you get booted because you take on a bigshot and can't beat him, that's not you not "getting a shot at actually playing the game"; that's you playing the game wrong, and then losing because you suck.

You may not get it, but I don't believe she "sucked." I believe the game was built to protect Rob. On his fourth fucking try, he was given a tribe of hero-worshipping idiots, a do-over card, and the ability to keep anyone from interacting outside his control. Sorry, but I don't see her move to get him out as some big mistake. I think she was the only one with the right idea--much like the people on the other tribe were smart enough to boot Russell early. It doesn't matter whether she moved early or late. No one was getting those idiots to get rid of Rob. To compare what happened there to Jenna Lewis is to ignore that Rob was on his fourth game against a bunch of newbie followers who were too stupid and starstruck to ever, ever move against him.

[Yogurt Baron]

BDArizona, I agree with you about that whole season having been rigged to give the most overrated (arguably the worst) player in Survivor history a million dollars. But under those circumstances, moving against Rob was guaranteed to get Kristina sent home in no time, flat. Any Survivor player who makes a move that's likely going to get them kicked out of the game is not playing the game well. If I got stuck on that season and I saw that nobody was going to go against Rob, I'd do my best to be Natalie T.

I guess my biggest concern about this season's Christina and her liking herself to Kristina and Francesca is...has she seen any other seasons of Survivor? Does she think that the "game" "play" we saw on Survivor: Rob's Final Mulligan is how this game is actually played? If so, she'll finish in thirty-second place.

[Mr. 888]

If I got stuck on that season and I saw that nobody was going to go against Rob, I'd do my best to be Natalie T.

Natalie T.? That's even worse. At least Kristina was responsible for providing drama in the early episodes, and was eager not to be seen as a "coattail rider." I'd rather watch the woman who tries to make the correct moves even if she fails than the third place finisher who I can't remember a damn thing about.

Christina, though, does not give me high hopes, especially with her choices. Did she just watch the first episode of Redemption Island and call it a day?

[danheaton]

Judging by Christina's response and her interview, I'm pretty sure that she hasn't seen much of Survivor. They appear to be only a few exceptions to the rule this year. Several people picked Fabio, which is really odd too.

[fashionkills]

I did not appreciate the way she yelled at TC, but she's certainly no pushover. I feel that she may have game, but she no longer has the benefit of being under-the-radar to help her through the early stages.

[seltzer4]

No posts on her? She has a patience of a saint.

[Yyy]

While watching the bonus scene of Colton and Alicia mocking Christina behind her back, being so blatantly racist, it made me so furious I was brought to tears. Did these two vile creatures actually think they were being genuinely funny by hamming it up for the camera like they did?

[DragonScribe]

I give kudos to Christina for her gameplay after Monica's vote-out. She was no dummy about how serious her predicament was, but she wasn't going to make a scene either. So often the person outside the loop comes back whining "You didn't tell me!" She just accepted it.

I also liked it that she let Colton and Alicia really be nasty to her in front of Leif and Jason. The Idiot Duo was so sure of their power that they didn't consider the social aspects -- if they treat Christina that way, what might they do to someone else.

And then when she was talking to Leif and Jason, not realizing that Alicia had returned, she didn't try to cover. She just went with it. Which undercut Alicia's "Ah ha! I was here all the time!"

I'll really give her credit for realizing how badly off Colton was and running to get the medical help. It's more than Tarzan (hello there DOCTOR!) realized.

[FrogsRule]

Hmm, very, very interesting. Don't know if this is a recent creation, or if it predates Survivor. But she has has own Web site.

Explains a couple of things to me. First, she's well equipped to handle difficult people. If she's been pursuing this journalism and PR career for as long as her Web site indicates, she's dealt with divas far more div-matic than Colton.

Also, Colton needs to start sending her flowers and gifts and had better begin groveling. I'm betting that Christina already has the connections she would need to bury Colton if she wished. (Yeah, I know her Web site is PR, but at the same time, some of her work is quite real.)

Finally, I sometimes wonder if reality TV contestants and producers and what-all secretly laugh at those of us who get angry or annoyed by racist or bigoted comments, or truly bad behavior, or all the other things that appear to be real people in a reality TV show. Not the lying and conniving that is part of the game play, but some of the unnecessary nastiness that has come to characterize Survivor.

If Christina is going to tweet to Colton, "Stay strong! All is forgiven and much love..." - She honestly doesn't care that people (Trayvon Martin!) lose their lives because some racist idiots **act** on exactly the kind of sentiments that Colton seems to think are funny?

To me, Christina (and the rest of this Survivor gang) who CONTINUE TO ENABLE Colton, who teehee and giggle and love-you over remarks that are not right, these people are just as despicable as Colton himself.

Right this minute, I don't give a damn about Christina any more than I do about Colton. Do I think she should hold a grudge for the rest of her life? No. No. No. But at the same time, until Colton stops his famewhorish ways and demonstrates a milligram of shame about his actions and words, I don't think any of the S24 Survivors should be "forgiving" him for anything.

It is not the personal insults that matter. It is the harm and unbelievable damage that comes from Colton's mindset that matter. Very, very much.

[Julsie]

...she's dealt with divas far more div-matic than Colton.

How is such a creature possible??

Great post, FrogsRule. That's a really good point about Christina's and others' obligation to condemn such overt racism because it has real consequences. I've been looking at it more in terms of no one's condemnation of bullying behavior because it has consequences, too.

I hate to get all pop-psych mumbo jumbo, but I have to wonder if Christina does not have a strong sense of self-worth, that she would let herself be talked to and mocked without defending herself. Just because she's successful in her career doesn't mean that she hasn't internalized some negative ideas about herself.

[petramom]

I also wondered if Christina has some self-worth issues. She said she hoped by caring for Colton when he was sick that he would see she wasn't such a bad person after all. I was surprised that she saw the situation that way. Colton's behavior had nothing to do with Christina being a bad person and everything to do with Colton having emotional problems. I thought that was pretty obvious - it's not like he even knew her that well, or that she'd done something even arguably unkind or devious or otherwise deserving of a "bad person" label. I imagine she also knew that Colton treated Bill in much the same way.

It was just one statement, and don't mean to read too much into it. She may have decided not to fight back with Colton and Alicia because she just didn't see the point to it, or because she doesn't like conflict or whatever. But I felt terrible for her whatever the case.

[Julsie]

She said she hoped by caring for Colton when he was sick that he would see she wasn't such a bad person after all. I was surprised that she saw the situation that way.

Exactly! I was thinking, "Wha?? Oh, honey... no. You do not have anything to prove to COLTON!".

If she had chosen to be compassionate as a way to be true to her core values, I would have been impressed. It would have shown her to be far more advanced on a human and spiritual plane than Colton. But she gave the impression that she was coming from a place of needing to prove her worthiness to him and others.

Really, I don't usually go for psychoanalyzing. But her responses to the verbal abuse heaped on her are so different from what mine would be that I'm left trying to figure out why.

[neplusultra]

I agree about the self-worth issues. Didn't she also say something like "wow, maybe I really am a cockroach"? Yikes.

If she were in high school or college, I'd be highly concerned that she was a suicide victim waiting to happen. (Not that it's impossible now, but hopefully less likely.)

I just find it frustrating that the one time she did stand up for herself, at that first TC, people (including one in this thread) pointed to it as a negative characteristic. Makes me wonder if she just can't win. Is this reflective of a bias toward Asian women? Expected to be meek, but held in contempt when they live up to the stereotype?

[Captain Asshat]

I agree about the self-worth issues. Didn't she also say something like "wow, maybe I really am a cockroach"? Yikes.

I didn't see it that way. I saw it as her agreeing with the label for the situation, not her life. Face it, Colton and Alicia set her up as something to be hated and pushed out of the shelter and, eventually, the tribe. For all intents and purposes, she's the cockroach of the tribe. But when she's spoken to people, in this situation and even in the situation where she negotiated with men (and pissed off Alicia to begin with), she's done the logical thing that benefits her and/or her tribe. As soon as she had Jonas and Leif alone, she attempted to show them how siding with her was in their best interests. She did not beg or bargain to stay, nor at any time did she just sit on a swing...or lie on a hammock...and mope and whine (yeah, Colton...I'm looking at you). She laid out strategy that could benefit all three of them. I'd like to think she's got something going for her beneath the surface.

[petramom]

Christina's options were pretty limited. I think she very correctly perceived that fighting back would make things worse. She had no one on her side. If Colton had put Jonas or one of his other cud-chewing minions on the spot they almost certainly would have joined in the attack on Christina. These are not people who respond to rational arguments, or who will ever admit they're wrong. Colton and Alicia both seem like the type who will simply escalate a conflict if their victim fights back. In the real world I think her best choice would be to get as far as possible from those two nutjobs. On Survivor she can't even lay down without one of them being in her way.

All of which is to say that I don't know if Christina could have done much better than she did with that situation. She managed not to cry or quit or otherwise make a fool of herself. Bill handled Colton well too, although I don't know if he was ganged up on to the extent Christina was.

I wonder if people like Colton and Alicia can sense which people are safest to attack. I didn't pay much attention to Christina before this episode, but I wonder if she had already come across as someone who would go down easily.

[scowl]

Bill handled Colton well too, although I don't know if he was ganged up on to the extent Christina was.

Bill's reaction was more aggressive and more entertaining. When Bill "got in his face" meaning he wanted to have an adult conversion with Colton, it was clear that when Colton is faced with a person he can't control he runs away like a frightened child and hides behind Mommy's legs. Afterwards Colton talked to his tribe mates like he had just escaped a life-or-death confrontation with scary scary Bill.

Unfortunately Christina didn't get to see that so she didn't know what to do. She probably couldn't confront Colton like Bill had because now he had Alicia's legs to hide behind. I guess she thought agreeing with them would shut them up, just like agreeing with Tarzan would shut him up.

It's disappointing to see her become so passive.

[FrogsRule]

Julsie, thanks for your good comments (both here and in the 24-6 thread). For me, it's not so much about Christina's behavior in-game (although I feel like she's a bit crazy for trying to prove anything to Colton about herself). It's all about her current behavior.

Really, everyone on this season of Survivor - from contestants to producers and everyone in between - should be required to contribute 10% of all income earned from the show to anti-bullying or anti-racism causes. It wouldn't even BEGIN to erase the potential damage caused by young people seeing no-consequences bullying based on race and gender. But it would be a start.

[bankerchick]

If Christina is going to tweet to Colton, "Stay strong! All is forgiven and much love..." - She honestly doesn't care that people (Trayvon Martin!) lose their lives because some racist idiots **act** on exactly the kind of sentiments that Colton seems to think are funny?

Wow, that's a Grand Canyon sized leap.

While we know Colton was a dick to Bill, we don't know that Colton didn't like Christina because she is Asian. We saw absolutely nothing to indicate that might be the case. I don't think we can assume because Colton has racist tendencies towards African Americans, that necessarily means he feels the same way about Asians. I know most racists are complete racists, but it's also true that many people have no respect for African Americans for whatever reason they feel are valid. It seemed to me that he enjoyed the pile-on that was started by Alicia. Just two cool kids, picking on someone weaker, who apparently has no other allies.

And I don't think we should ignore the fact that Christina is apparently disliked by almost everyone. What I would like to know, is why. What are they not showing us?

[enlightenedbum]

Check out the video linked in the Colton thread and I think the episode thread. Colton is even more clearly racist against Asians than his attack on Bill was racially motivated. The always clever slanty eyed "joke."

[OneGeek]

Copied from 24-6:

Alicia appears to be a person with an inflated sense of her own competence, and little to no regard for the nastiness that comes out of her mouth. She apparently badmouthed Christina to her fellows on both tribes. I suspect that no one at this point in the show knows Christina very well, which is Christina's fault, but the unfriendliness directed at Christina was apparently stoked up by Alicia's non-stop haranguing. We know of TWO occasions when she said that Christina was lying, and we know that in both situations Christina was not, in fact, lying.

I think Alicia used her position as Colton's satellite bitch to let her hatefulness go to semi-pro level; the bottom line is that she acted that way and she said those words and that behavior is clearly a part of her make up. I award her no points for her apology, because I just do not buy that it is sincere.

Is it possible that the tribes don't like Christina because Alicia was constantly badmouthing her?

[alanfm2]

Let's say Colton was alright, Alicia and Colton continued to bully Christina and she was voted out. I would hope that Christina would have at lease considered not attending the finale. I understand she would almost certainly have given in to the pressure from the show. But, I hope it would have made Jeff et al. think more about what they allowed to happen.

Edited by alanfm2, Mar 23, 2012 @ 9:02 PM.

[bankerchick]

Jeff certainly allowed, if not actively encouraged, Rocky to bully that one gay guy a few seasons back. I don't think he's too worried about Christina's feelings. Plus I'm sure it's gonna be pretty hard to get out of the contract because Colton was mean.

I know nothing about Christina's personality, and don't necessarily like any of the contestants enough to care about their opinion where she is concerned, but I admire her maturity in looking past Colton's ugliness to try to comfort him when he was truly suffering. Sure it didn't hurt her cause, but I don't think that was her motivation. She was very selfless and I'm sorry that Colton did not have the grace to appreciate much less acknowledge that.

[enlightenedbum]

Hell, Probst actively joined in on bullying Anthony and said what Rocky was doing was in Anthony's interest. Because Probst is kind of an asshole.

[FrogsRule]

While we know Colton was a dick to Bill, we don't know that Colton didn't like Christina because she is Asian. We saw absolutely nothing to indicate that might be the case.

bankerchick, as enlightenedbum noted, there's evidence about exactly that. Not only did he do the slanty-eyes thing, but after he did it, he poked Alicia, repeated it, and got her to do it too. (I doubt that Alicia needed much convincing.)

And that's just what we have been allowed to see.

[neplusultra]

And I don't think we should ignore the fact that Christina is apparently disliked by almost everyone. What I would like to know, is why. What are they not showing us?

But this is exactly how unreasonable hatred or at least contempt--toward ethnic groups, of gays, of women--becomes so hard to extinguish. "Everyone else seems to dislike Group X so much, there must be some reason for it". Why must there be? Okay, sure: there's a reason of some kind for everything that happens in the world. But a valid reason, a reason one can stand behind as they hold their head up high? I don't see one and I just don't think the show's editors would refuse to show one if it existed (in past cases, they've always shown an example, at least a quick one, to illustrate people's complaints about someone being "annoying" or whatever). For some people there, it's been clearly shown to be anti-Asian racism, as the above two posters pointed out. For others, it may have just been that Christina didn't manage to land in the semi-randomly decided first day alliance, and so then an outcast, shunning mentality developed and snowballed from there.

Social science experiments have shown that if you randomly divide groups of people and give one group power over the other (which is exactly what a voting alliance that has the numbers on Survivor has, literally), there is quite often a tendency to become abusive of that power, or even sadistic. And I think that's what we are seeing play out here, more than usual on this show (or maybe it's just more noticable precisely because Christina doesn't offer as easy a rationale to blame the shunning on as do most Survivor outcasts).

ETA: Those experiments, it occurs to me germane to point out, also find that the people who are put in the arbitrarily selected "inferior" group tend to internalize feelings of inadequacy and low self worth. In fact, I don't believe those kinds of experiments are even allowed any more in academic settings, although they still go on on reality TV (albeit without the scientific precision). Hence my sometimes love-hate relationship with this show, as I am fascinated to see social science experimentation of a sort that wouldn't get past the human subjects review in this day and age and thus are more forbidden fruit for social scientists.

Another way to look at the situation is in analogs to other mammals, particularly pack animals like wolves since we too are social animals. Christina has been made the omega(though as in wolf packs, this need not necessarily be set in stone permanently). I'd like to think that ideally humans have risen to a state of civilization where we don't have omegas, just as we have laws against rape, murder, and child abuse that wolves do not. But here it would seem to be otherwise, at least within the bounds of what they knew they could get away with.

Edited by neplusultra, Mar 24, 2012 @ 7:42 AM.

[kikaha]

Really, everyone on this season of Survivor - from contestants to producers and everyone in between - should be required to contribute 10% of all income earned from the show to anti-bullying or anti-racism causes. It wouldn't even BEGIN to erase the potential damage caused by young people seeing no-consequences bullying based on race and gender. But it would be a start.

Just who should require them to give 10% of their income in this way?

[TWoP Pembleton]

Please try to keep the discussion of Christina to what we've seen on the show (and, okay, any network-provided clips on the website). When we get into imagining other things that Colton/Alicia said or thought about her, it's in the realm of fanfic. Unless one of them gives an interview where the thoughts are detailed, we really don't know, and when we start just making things up, the discussion goes off the rails. Try to stick to your opinions on what we actually saw, not what you imagined was going on internally. I haven't edited any posts above because it would have ruined the flow of the conversation, but from here on out, please be more careful.

If you have questions about this, send me a PM and I will try to clarify further.