10 replies to this topic

[insanityproject]

Starting a thread to discuss money and class in Revenge.

So far we have poor folks who are still poor (Jack, Declan), rich folks who were born rich and still that way (Conrad, Daniel, Charlotte), poor folks who are climbing the ladder (Ashley), rich folks who were cut off (Tyler), poor folks who made themselves rich (Nolan) or married into money (Victoria), rich folks who lost everything (David, Emanda) but then got rich again (Emanda), and poor folks who burned through 500K and had start to stripping again (Amily). Plus assorted minor characters who sold their souls to the Graysons for a piece of the American pie (Mason, Lydia, Frank, the politician, the shrink, etc.)

One of the really interesting questions about Victoria is her motivation in betraying David. Was is it to protect Daniel? Or was it about protecting the lifestyle to which she had become accustomed?

[Glory]

One of the really interesting questions about Victoria is her motivation in betraying David. Was is it to protect Daniel? Or was it about protecting the lifestyle to which she had become accustomed?

I think she tries to trick herself into thinking she did it for Daniel, when really her motives were just as selfish as anything else.

Honestly, even if Victoria didn't love Conrad, I don't see one thing he's done that makes him a bad father. If it wasn't for Daniel so clearly choosing Victoria, I think he would be doting on him as much as he doted on Charlotte (up through the paternity reveal).

So, Victoria didn't betray David because she was worried that Daniel would end up being raised by Conrad or anything like that (IMO). She betrayed David so she wouldn't end up out on the street and without access to her son.

[ElectricBoogalo]

Tiny nitpick about the thread title: it should be "you and I," not "you and me."

I agree that although Victoria may like to say that framing David was about protecting Daniel, at heart it was about protecting herself so that she could maintain her lifestyle. Since Conrad apparently knew about her affair, it's doubtful that she could have divorced him and expected to live in the same manner.

[Glory]

ElectricBoogalo, I think the thread title is correct. You wouldn't say, "she's different than I." You'd say, "she's different than me."

Since Conrad apparently knew about her affair, it's doubtful that she could have divorced him and expected to live in the same manner.

I think this is good to point out. Conrad knew about the affair and (from the flashbacks) didn't seem very upset about it. He reassured Victoria that he loved her. We know that in the future Conrad has an affair with Lydia. Maybe he though Victoria would be as forgiving as he was? Maybe he thought he "deserved" it because Victoria got to have a tryst (or two, we don't know the extent of her relationship with Frank).

So... where I'm going with all of this is that the affairs would cancel themselves out during divorce proceedings. SO, it's this new deception (Charlotte's paternity) that really throws a wrench in Victoria's plans for money. Hmm... maybe I'm not going anywhere with this.

[LazyBum1115]

ElectricBoogalo, I think the thread title is correct. You wouldn't say, "she's different than I." You'd say, "she's different than me."

Grammar sidetrack: ElectricBoogalo is correct. Technically, "she's different than me" is incorrect, even though many people say it that way. You should say "she's different than I[ am].” The "am" is implied. In the case of the title it would be, “The Rich are different than you and I [are].”

Anyhoo, topic? Yeah... I’ve got nothing. Sorry.

Edited by LazyBum1115, Jan 24, 2012 @ 12:35 PM.

[Princess Aldrea]

Conrad knew about the affair and (from the flashbacks) didn't seem very upset about it. He reassured Victoria that he loved her.

What did Conrad know, exactly? We know that he knows Victoria didn't want to destroy David but that could stem from just a desire not to do that to anyone much less a friend and not necessarily a lover. We know that at some point before present day he's at least suspected that she cared too much about David (from her trying to tempt the prosecutor if nothing else). He might have even known about the sex but we don't know when the affair started and he might have believed that she started it in otder to make the framing easier.

[doram]

Conrad tells the now-Senator and then-Prosecutor that Victoria is in love with David Clark. This is a flashback from Episode 3 (or 4).

[corvus13]

I can't think of Jack as poor when he can afford an oceangoing boat.

[Ailiana]

Hemingway is responsible for a famous misquotation of Fitzgerald's. According to Hemingway, a conversation between him and Fitzgerald went:
Fitzgerald: The rich are different than you and me. Hemingway: Yes, they have more money.
This never actually happened; it is a retelling of an actual encounter between Hemingway and Mary Colum, which went as follows:
Hemingway: I am getting to know the rich. Colum: I think you’ll find the only difference between the rich and other people is that the rich have more money.
The full quotation is found in Fitzgerald's words in his short story "The Rich Boy" (1926), paragraph 3: "Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft, where we are hard, cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand."

The title is correct as a quotation, not as a matter of grammer. I think that this snipet is also a reflection of how the rich are in this show. There are mental differences in how the world is seen, how people are seen, and what is important, that are changed through teh lens of money. And I thnk part of what this show is exploring is how much of that is situational and how much of that will continue when challenged--will the rich change when their structure is challenged or will they cling to the mores of their wealth?

[insanityproject]

Thanks, Ailiana. I was quoting Hemingway misquoting Fitzgerald :) Considering the Gatsbyesque setting of the show, it seemed to fit.

The title is correct as a quotation, not as a matter of grammer. I think that this snipet is also a reflection of how the rich are in this show. There are mental differences in how the world is seen, how people are seen, and what is important, that are changed through teh lens of money. And I thnk part of what this show is exploring is how much of that is situational and how much of that will continue when challenged--will the rich change when their structure is challenged or will they cling to the mores of their wealth?

If anything gives Revenge weight and separates it from other prime-time soaps, it's this. Money, having it and not having it, affects people and their characters. Definitely feel like having tons of money is one of the reason why Daniel and Charlotte are so "soft" compared to the other characters.

I also think the main reason Declan is failing as a character (compared to everyone else) is that the show is not representing an honest portrayal of his attitude towards money. Not saying he should be into Charlotte because of her money, but he should have some feeling about the wealth itself. Is he jealous? Does he imagine himself becoming rich? Does he feel self-conscious at his lack of money? Jack has a very clear point of view on money -- he doesn't respect people just because they have it and he doesn't place high value on money. But what is Declan's POV? Maybe the writing is there and the acting hasn't pulled it together but I just don't get what the character's take on this is.

[ayla123]

I don't know, I think Declan's been pretty clear in his reaction to money. He wishes he had more of it, of course (he said that he would have had been set if only Jack had sold the bar, he steals the lobsters to get some cash) but he doesn't want to be in the position of his girlfriend giving him money (he didn't take her bribe for drinks when they first met in the bar, and refused when she bought him a suit for her parent's anniversary dinner). Sounds like a pretty normal reaction from a young guy surrounded by massive wealth, but not rolling in it himself. Which makes his acceptance of a private scholarship for a better education make total sense--come on he's no fool! It remains to be seen whether he can hack it though (Cliff's Notes and all).