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#91

DimeStormRing

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Posted May 5, 2012 @ 8:22 PM

Well, Emanda is wearing her black Revenge hoodie, so she must have been up to some sneaking around when she was caught.

Who will free Emanda and Nolan (those socks!!!) from this situation? My money is on David Clarke himself...
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#92

Crim

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Posted May 6, 2012 @ 9:10 AM

Who will free Emanda and Nolan (those socks!!!) from this situation? My money is on David Clarke himself...

My money would be on Emanda herself. She looks pretty ok and in control. Or maybe she got an arrangement with Takeda for him/some flunkies to free them.

The chances of David Clarke being alive have plummeted after it was revealed that his death was ordered by Conrad. This means that the only likely way for David to be alive is for White Haired to work for him. But, in that case, why wait so many years in prison and why use his own daughter when he already had an insider doing dirty work for Conrad? Even if he was so ruthless that he wanted Amanda in on it like that, why didn't he shove info her way through someone? All info Amanda has is the result of her own work, delegating Nolan to do part of the work, or is old.
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#93

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 7:10 PM

My immediate reaction to the first sneak peek clip:

What that first clip made me realize is that Daniel is like Victoria. See how she's repulsed, but then she gives in. It reminds me of Daniel being upset at that guy getting killed, but going along with it and the coverup of the David Clarke incident, right after a plea concerning Charlotte that parallels Conrad's warning to Victoria about losing Daniel seen many episodes ago. Granted, I think they both also just want to keep their money and position - I'm now remembering Daniel's barman stint and how he dismissed it as just wanting to piss off his parents - but adding a reason of "it's best for these people I love" seems to be a motivating factor. Of course Daniel hasn't yet proven as conniving as Victoria, but he really hasn't had to be - though it would have helped him not fall prey to Tyler - because his parents always protect him. But we've been getting signs that solidify this impression for me, like that voiceover about awakening a monster with Daniel waking up right then after Emanda gets back from her errands, how it calls back to him mistaking her errands later on for cheating on him with Jack, his ping-ponging between who to trust and distrust, and now saying he wants to be his father's son and sitting at his desk.
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#94

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 1:27 PM

Well, just watching the promo I'm going to assume that Emily is going to (try?) kill Takeda. It's the only person I could see Emily being pissed enough about, plus he was always kind of jammed in due to the surprising popularity in Japan.
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#95

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 5:51 PM

It could be Takeda or what if it turned out to be the White-haired man, the man who murdered David Clarke during the staged prison riot. Anyway the wikipedia article on episode 21 mentions a death and Emanda comforting Jack while the episode promo shows Emanda digging a grave on the beach, my guess is that sammy the labrador finally dies from old-age (I mean at 20-years old he's positively ancient for a dog).
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#96

bergh

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 10:35 PM

After tonight's quick mention of Emanda's mother, I wonder whether she will be revealed as being alive in the season finale, Alias style.
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#97

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 12:43 AM

Bergh - I came here to post the exact same thing.

What did white hair man refer to his organization? The In-something or other...it is pretty damn obvious to me the person behind it will be Emanda's mom. Too many momma references the past few weeks. I'm almost ready to go ALL IN on that theory. Alias 2.0 y'all!!!
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#98

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 1:21 AM

[snip] What did white hair man refer to his organization? The In-something or other...

The Initiative
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#99

Jupi

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 6:02 AM

The Initiative


I was trying to recall where I'd heard that organization before, and I just realized it was on Buffy.

The Alias 2.0 theories are interesting. Emanda's mom really could turn out to be the next Irina Derevko
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#100

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 6:49 AM

My assumption is that the show doesn't want Emanda and Jack to really get together at this point. You know Jack is going to think that he and Emanda have found True Love. Rather than shut down Jack again, I think Emanda would prefer to have him back off on his own. So what is going to come between them? My guesses are (a) due to whatever has happened to Nolan, Emanda realizes she needs to go balls out for vengeance, and that she needs to stay in tight with the Graysons, so will recommit to her relationship with Daniel, and (b) Amily will either come back or contact Jack, or Emanda will make it appear that she is contacting him. I think having some hope of Amily's return is the only think that will put Jack off Emanda.
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#101

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Posted May 22, 2012 @ 3:41 PM

I also think Momma Clarke is alive. Two episodes in a row where her death was alluded to but never stated outright (flashback!David saying it was "just the two of us now", and Emanda saying mommy was "sick").

So where has she been for the past two decades? Soap Opera Formulaic Plot Line number 317 would be "institutionalized." Maybe she's nuttier than squirrel poo and has been locked in an asylum all this time.

Other possibilities:
1. Faked death in order to change identity
2. Government secret agent
3. Amnesia
4. Member of the Initiative terrorist group
5. Witness Protection
6. Alien abduction
7. Cryonic suspension
8. Ran off with Jack's mother

Wow, those all suck. I hope she either really is dead or they come up with a better excuse for her absence than I can think of.

Edited by mac123x, May 22, 2012 @ 3:43 PM.

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#102

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Posted May 22, 2012 @ 5:39 PM

[snip] and Emanda saying mommy was "sick").

Emanda told Aunt Carol that her mom was sick most of her childhood and died. Emanda flat out said her mom died, but with this show, who knows! Mike Kelley might make her alive if he has decided against having David alive.

I would think having David alive would make the entire show pointless and it would only serve to torture Emanda that her father would do that to her.
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#103

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Posted May 23, 2012 @ 1:04 PM

I'm sure that Emanda thinks her mother is dead, but I don't think the show has shown us definitely. (Has Emanda ever visited her grave?)

I wonder if that engagement present that Victoria gave will turn up again?
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#104

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Posted May 23, 2012 @ 3:49 PM

Tonight, I think Charlotte will either try to commit suicide with whatever drugs she bought from the ghetto rat or she will OD on the drugs.
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#105

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Posted May 23, 2012 @ 5:41 PM

(Has Emanda ever visited her grave?)

Look how long it took for the show to have Emanda visit her father's grave. Whether the show makes Emanda's mom alive or not; I just hope the story is a great one. Too many episodes have felt like fillers to me. I want the show to return to the way it was in the beginning... you know, the elements that drew me in in the first place. I want that back.
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#106

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Posted May 24, 2012 @ 5:38 AM

I guess since Kelley couldn't bring David back from the dead, he's settled on Mama Clarke? I hope it will be worth it.

Here's a thought - what if... Mama Clarke is also Jack's and Declan's mother? (Or at least Declan's, with the age gap between Jack and his brother, they might have come from different mothers). What if that's why she up and left around the time of the David Clarke case? For all we know, she could have left before the trial, the very first time David showed up on the Hamptons, Amanda in tow...

That will tie up the loose ends neatly, and keep everything non-incestuous: Amanda and Jack won't be kissing siblings, and since Charlotte's mom is Victoria, she won't be related to Declan either.
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#107

penelope79

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Posted May 24, 2012 @ 6:17 AM

This idea popped in my head too when I watched the episode set in 2002 and Jack's father had that conversation with Nolan, but then I thought that TPTB wouldn't push so much Emanda/Jack (unless they want to do something completely unexpected) if they were siblings. They even let them kiss. Besides, we also had the revelation that Emanda shares her father with Charlotte, making her also sister to Jack and Declan would probabily be too much. I wouldn't mind, but I doubt it's the case.
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#108

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Posted May 24, 2012 @ 7:16 AM

I am going to assume that neither Victoria nor Charlotte dies. QV is just too major a character and MS too awesome an actress. Besides, in interviews Mike Kelley has implied that the Emanda v Victoria dynamic is really at the heart of the show. So unless MS wants off the show, I have no fear that QV is dead. And I think Charlotte is just beginning in terms of her f--ked-up-ness and potentially going after some revenge of her own. So those 2 characters are not even up in the air for me.

Here are a couple of things I wonder about next season, though. Do you think next season will bring a return to the Hamptons in the summer? This would only require jumping ahead a few months. Or will the main setting switch to the city or even somewhere else? I am not sure why I'm even wondering about this, except that part of me would love to return to the sun, summer, society gatherings, and so forth that marked the beginning of this season.

The other thing I wonder...Any possibility that Emanda and Daniel will get back together? I know it seems far-fetched, but their breakup was not particularly acrimonious and there was no 'I never loved you anyway.' Emanda seemed to feel something for him, at least in part motivated by how awful his parents are. With Jack off the table and Daniel in distress over his mother (and probably figuring out at some point his father's involvement), maybe she will take pity on him again? But the other possibility is for Daniel to go full-bore out for revenge on Emanda.
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#109

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Posted May 24, 2012 @ 11:07 AM

I think Emanda's mom and Victoria will be opponents so Emanda will have to join up with one of them to defeat the other. I also think Emanda and Nolan will need a new ally next season and I predict it to be Declan.
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#110

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Posted May 25, 2012 @ 3:18 AM

Declan is sort of getting hotter with each episode, and I'm always surprised when I remember how much I disliked him at the start of the season. I loved the way he stood up to Charlotte after what she did, that was ballsy and, well, hot.
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#111

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Posted May 31, 2012 @ 3:44 PM

After binging on this show I couldn't wait to do some speculating of my own. This show reminds me a lot of Alias, including the idea that the first season's concept has to expand in order to give the show more legs. So whilst Emanda will still do some things revengey, it makes sense that next season we will get more involved with the spy/conspiracy stuff more. The existence of Mama Clarke proves there is more to the story. My spec basically breaks down into a set of key issues:

The benefactors
Emanda's basic motivation is retribution: take down everyone who helped frame her dad. It's a personal vandetta and that is understandable, especially the way the show has presented it but she gets an enormous amount of help. Not only does she get access to a huge amount of cash from the get go, she gets to be trained with firearms and hand to hand combat, as well as help focussing her mind on the task ahead. When the actual revenge starts she gets on-call help from not 1 but 2 billionaires, one of whom immediately flies from Japan and spends $50 million just on her say so. This kind of help can't be incidental, it feels organisational. Someone really wants to see her take down the Graysons and their lackeys.

The conspiracy
I know we haven't heard much of the conspiracy to frame David Clarke except the basics and even those lead to a host of questions. Some, like 'why was he set up?' will never be fully answered for a while yet but I'm starting to think there are two separate issues here. The set up and the murder are two things done by two separate entities possibly. If you set up a guy to take the fall for a terrorist hit and become the most hated man in America, what possible reason can you have to take him out except that he is still a threat? If so, who was he threatening and why and how? Which leads us to the entity most closely linked to his death.

The Initiative
One of their henchmen posed as a security guard and murdered Clarke in prison. So he is either too skilled or his employers hold so much sway even inside maximum security prisons. I lean towards the latter. So why would the Initiative be threatened by Clarke and not by Conrad Grayson to the same extent? We know that Conrad admitted that it wasn't his decision to order the hit on David and that he referred to the Initiative as WHM's superiors, not his own. Conrad also had damaging documents as insurance, as can be expected but they haven't taken the drastic action of eliminating him. My explanation might come as a suprise: I think the Initiative has been infiltrated for a long time and David was either one of the infiltrators or knew of the infiltrators. I have further theories, I think WHM and David were part of this little inside group and that WHM faked David's assassination in order to fool his superiors and get him to safety. Think about it. David is writing on one of his secretive journals when he is killed and yet this little book makes its way through that pandemonium to join the rest of the collection in Nolan's (and later Emanda's) hands. If you've arranged for such a killing for such a notorious guy, shouldn't you intercept - at the very least - the last book? I don't believe WHM and Nolan acted together or knew they were acting together given the way they spied and tied each other up. WHM's role is in fact a mystery, even if I'm right about the infiltration. We know Nolan and Takeda have worked together but I'd say they work together. When Emanda got out of juvi, Nolan was there; he was also there at some random NY club following her around and making sure she is not getting into trouble, encouraging her to read the journals. When she did, she was instructed to talk to Takeda, a fact that Nolan knew. She presumably spent years in Japan training and plotting but when she returned, Nolan was there. I bet Nolan never followed her to Japan. It's a billionaires' relay. This was David's plan and I can see how he would want to take down Grayson & co but I still don't see how that directly threatens the Initiative. Unless ...

David-Victoria-Conrad-WHM-Mama Clarke degrees of separation
WHM tells Eminda that she fights like her mom, that means he knew her mother - in a fighting context - either as an ally or foe. Mama Clarke "dies" and Victoria, who also knows something about her "death", later engages in an affair with David. I'd say the affair was deliberate but maybe I'm too cynical. Anyhow, is it safe to assume that killing David was a way of protecting the Graysons? To extend my The Initiative Was Infiltrated theory, I think Mama Clarke was the mole on behalf of yet another, as yet unnamed organisation which also happens to include Takeda and David and possibly but unlikely Nolan. When Mama Clarke goes underground, the Initiative now suspect David (Alias, anyone?) and use the Graysons, specifically Victoria, to start an affair with David and collect intel. She develops genuine feelings over the years, even having a baby with him (again, shades of Alias). So when the plan to frame David is hatched, maybe to pressurise Mama Clarke to come out of hiding and/or force David to give up Mama Clarke, Victoria is less willing. Anyway, the plan fails as David plans to bring the whole house down and the Initiative resolve to kill him. What they don't know is that WHM also works for Mama Clarke, and that he proceeds to fake another Clarke death. Right now WHM's loyalty is with Mama Clarke's daughter, albeit indirectly. He also now has faked Victoria's death. Victoria and Mama Clarke are rivalries but they are essentially on the same side. They each have a daughter with the same man but him, who knows where his heart lies. So next season will see them trying to assist Emanda complete her mission and more, ie. bring down the Initiative.

The Original Amanda Clarke
The circle of people who know Emanda's true identity will expand slightly but be generally exclusive: besides Nolan, Amily, Takeda, we will have Charlotte, Victoria and Mama Clarke who has known all along.She will have extremely conflicted views about her mother who abandoned her but has had her back nonetheless ala Sydney Bristow season 2. Victoria and Mama Clarke's bickering will be epic, with Eminda and Charlotte at the centre of it all. David won't show up yet and Eminda and all of us will continue to believe he is dead. His arrival is possibly a season 3 plot. Eminda will go after Daniel and Conrad next season but will later realise that they are pawns in a much bigger plot. Does the terrorist organisation exist? If so, how can people who aren't part of it (like Conrad) have enough information to plant in David's computer? She will start to focus on this end of the arrest: who planted the information, what kind of information was it and why? Victoria will have to convince her that she let it happen because it was the lesser evil. Eminda will have far more complex emotions than falling for two guys at the same time.

Edited by Boundary, May 31, 2012 @ 4:07 PM.

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#112

hanoi jane

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Posted Jun 2, 2012 @ 9:54 PM

Given that Conrad has a conflict with the white haired man, I wonder what that means for Emanda's relationships next season? Is the white haired man the real villian? If so, does that mean Emanda aligns with one or more members of the Grayson family to seek revenge against him? Or will it turn out that the white haired man isn't exactly the villian he appears to be? Seems like there is a lot of room for misinterpretating the picture Emanda saw of the WHM at the prision. Maybe he was there trying to protect David? If so, does Emanda end up forming an alliance with the WHM? Or, has her number of targets simply increased?

It is also interesting that WHM now knows Emily is Amanda, the (now former) fiance of Daniel Grayson. He could have exposed her true identity to Conrad, amongst others. Doesn't seem like WHM wants her as an adversary.

I wonder if Amanda's Mom is pawn or Queen? Maybe she was pulling the strings back in the day? Maybe WHM was doing her bidding?

Edited by hanoi jane, Jun 2, 2012 @ 10:47 PM.

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#113

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Posted Jun 3, 2012 @ 4:24 PM

Maybe he was there trying to protect David?


That's my hope. That would explain why White Haired Man didn't rat out Emanda to Conrad, and winked at her in the camera. And that he's working for Mama Clarke to keep David and Real!Amanda safe.

Edited because we've been asked not to use initials.

Edited by corvus13, Jun 3, 2012 @ 4:25 PM.

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#114

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Posted Jun 3, 2012 @ 8:22 PM

It seems a little strange though, given that Emanda was about to kill WHM. If there was a time to come clean, that might have been it. Was he banking on her showing a conscience? That's some crazy brinksmanship.
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#115

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Posted Jun 8, 2012 @ 12:17 PM

It seems a little strange though, given that Emanda was about to kill WHM. If there was a time to come clean, that might have been it. Was he banking on her showing a conscience? That's some crazy brinksmanship.


He is a hardened professional, you take certain secrets with you to the grave if necessary.

Edited by Boundary, Jun 8, 2012 @ 12:18 PM.

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#116

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Posted Jun 9, 2012 @ 5:58 PM

BBDi, I don't think it would be far-fetched at all for Emanda and Daniel to get back together. Emanda thought she was coming to an end with her Revenge plans, so she decided to break things off with Daniel. But now that things have taken a step backwards, she might decide that she needs to use Daniel a little longer.


Kelley said that a significant death took place in the finale...3 potential victims were shown to us (Victoria, Charlotte, Lydia), but that there was one more that we don't know about and will be revealed in next season's premiere. He also said that the death is one that "will be difficult for fans to accept."

Out of the 3 we did see, I think only Victoria fits that description. However, I am having a really hard time believing they would kill off QV...after all, the show wasn't even bold enough to kill off Daniel, and QV/Madeleine Stowe definitely rank higher.

As for the person-at-risk that we didn't see, I went through the rest of the cast...everyone else is either untouchable because of their necessity to the show's current story arcs (Emanda, Nolan, Jack, Daniel, Amily) or not high-profile enough that fans would particularly care (Declan, Ashley, even Conrad).

So, whose death would be "difficult for fans to accept"? Then, it occurred to me, what about Nolan's Aunt Carol?

Now that WHM is loose and aware of both Emanda and Nolan's identities, he might have connected the dots to her. And while Carol is not a major character, I think her death would have a significant impact. Especially for Nolan...this whole time, he's been a helpful bystander, but losing his only close relative would make him directly affected by the conspiracy. Would that change how he works with Emanda?
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#117

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Posted Jun 9, 2012 @ 10:28 PM

He is a hardened professional, you take certain secrets with you to the grave if necessary.
Agreed. But if it turns out to be true that he was trying to protect David in prison, I would think he's also got some interest in seeing Emanda safe. Him dying at her hand for the sake of her getting revenge seems counterproductive to his intent (if he is trying to keep her from harm, maybe as an enemy of my enemy sort of thing, or on behalf of Mommy).
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#118

corvus13

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Posted Jun 10, 2012 @ 2:36 PM

It's always possible that White Haired Man was just toying with Emanda and knew that he could protect himself whenever he wanted to.
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#119

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Posted Jun 14, 2012 @ 4:50 PM

Not toying but yes, I had the same thought as well. He was not falling unconscious yet, he could've fought his way back. At that point he knew who she was and maybe wanted to see how far she can go.
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#120

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Posted Jun 20, 2012 @ 6:45 AM

I really like this show and Emily Van Camp. I like that she is on a show I like to watch. However, I wish the show would stick to its' name 'Revenge' and have each season have a new setting and a new protagonist out for revenge. If they wanted to keep EVC, she could be the mentor for the new protagonist. I thought '24' should have done this as well. Each season would have been some kind of emergency event, not related to terrorism, and would have a different cast. I know anthology series haven't worked very well, but this kind of structure would be different with a new cast every season rather than every episode. The other thought would be turning the cast into a repertory company. The cast would stay the same, but each would get a new role each season.
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