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Glee's Gender Issues: It Has Them


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#331

northern eye

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 3:18 PM

Watching the BTS video for "Dance With Somebody" was interesting. So Heather Morris has to "fight" to be in more of the performance where she was singing and dancing lead?

Something tells me this is not an issue for Harry Shum, Jr.

Edited by northern eye, Apr 25, 2012 @ 3:19 PM.


#332

dippychik

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Posted Apr 25, 2012 @ 4:38 PM

Something tells me this is not an issue for Harry Shum, Jr.

Probably not, considering that Mike Chang started out as the silent dancer type and has still managed more development than his OriginalND member girlfriend Tina.

#333

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 11:44 AM

Probably not, considering that Mike Chang started out as the silent dancer type and has still managed more development than his OriginalND member girlfriend Tina.

Brittany started off as a silent dancer as well.

It would have been so nice if that turned out to be true, but alas a girl who puts her dreams before her boyfriend's is a selfish bitch and must be made to realize that having a boyfriend is the most important

Whereas a boy asking his fiance to put aside her lifelong dreams for the one he figured out that day is her being a supportive girlfriend. Ugh, not cool Glee.

Especially since Rachel's dreams involve being a huge city where there are plenty of opportunities. She could be at NYADA while he enrolls in community college (because it's too late to enroll anywhere else, something that Emma should have been aware of) taking core classes while figuring out where he wanted to go from there. It's totally normal for an eighteen year old to be unsure of what they want to do with the rest of their lives. Figuring that out is what your early twenties are for (or at least that's what this twenty-two year old on her third major makes herself believe). Once Finn figured it out, he'd be in one of the biggest metropolises in the world, so he'd have no trouble finding a way to pursue his chosen career.

Meanwhile, if Finn had decided he wanted to play football somewhere in the midwest, Rachel would have trouble finding musical theater gigs in Kansas City.

#334

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 11:50 AM

I seriously doubt Finn took Rachel at face value that she would sacrifice her dream for his. I took her as basically saying. "find your dream and I'll support it as best I can ." Fincell really seem to talk between the lines...LOL

If Finn found his dream playing football for a small college, in say, Idaho, I doubt Rachel was going to pack her bags and say Adios to New York.

#335

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 11:59 AM

On Finn feeling like Rachel should fall into his arms the second he expresses interest (and her doing so not too long after), I think this bugs me so much because I have dated guys like that. My two longest relationships were with guys like that. Maybe I'm projecting because it was always true for me, but Rachel doesn't seem to love Finn so much as she's terrified of being alone. We've never seen Rachel and Finn just hanging out, having a conversation about nothing and just being at ease with each other. I have yet to see anything that shows that they have a solid relationship. I mean, after being together for a year and a half Finn still can't remember that Rachel's a vegan! He apparently also forgot that she's Jewish when he bought her a Christmas pig. What the hell kind of boyfriend can't remember something as basic as their deeply held beliefs on animal products?

I just re-watched that scene from 2x22 to get the dialogue and Rachel says, "this is my dream, being here in NY, I'm not going to let anyone or anything keep me from it. … there's nothing you can say or do that's going to change my mind about it."

Rachel/Broadway will always be my OTP

This can be applied to every plot point out there. RIB are TERRIBLE writers with no sense of characterization. Everything is just a device to get the kids to sing the song of the day.

I feel like this is the biggest difference between season one and seasons two and three. In season one it felt like they picked the songs to go with the story whereas in two and three they picked the story to go with the Katy Perry song.

I seriously doubt Finn took Rachel at face value that she would sacrifice her dream for his. I took her as basically saying. "find your dream and I'll support it as best I can ." Fincell really seem to talk between the lines...LOL

If Finn found his dream playing football for a small college, in say, Idaho, I doubt Rachel was going to pack her bags and say Adios to New York.


The script seemed to suggest otherwise...

Edited by LimelightQueen, Apr 26, 2012 @ 12:04 PM.


#336

Sara2009

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 4:41 PM

What the hell kind of boyfriend can't remember something as basic as their deeply held beliefs on animal products?


I think things like this are supposed to be funny, though. Not everything on this show is meant to be taken seriously or analyzed. JMO

#337

a finn gleek

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Posted Apr 26, 2012 @ 4:45 PM

Glee should stop with the PSAs and messages to get out of this half-way house funk it's fallen into. I seriously don't know what to take seriously anymore and what not. Cooper Anderson said it the best during his acting lessons.

Since there's so much meta going on these days, I wonder if the whole "Jesus Joe's magical healing penis" is meant as an intentional joke? If it is, which I doubt, it's actually kind of awesome.

Edited by a finn gleek, Apr 26, 2012 @ 4:46 PM.


#338

Sadie T

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 3:51 AM

Finn's "character growth" is having everyone scramble around to help him find a future (no matter how unrealistic of fleeting his choices seem to be) while Rachel's is to actively put her boyfriend before her lifelong dreams because she can do whatever about NY as long as Finn works out what he wants


To me, Glee seems to suggest that male character growth is learning to be a leader, standing up for themselves (because they need to recognize how amazing they really are), taking initiative, putting their needs first (because they deserve it). Female character growth is learning to play nice, toning themselves down (gotta dial back that "crazy"), compromising anything and everything they've ever wanted, and putting others before themselves (because if they don't, they're all self-centered bitches).

It's like they send their male characters on a hero's quest to discover how great they really are and the females go off to learn the art of pleasing people. Rachel has spent 3 years learning how to make other people like her and allowing them to walk all over her in the process... and this is supposed to be growth.

Edited by Sadie T, Apr 27, 2012 @ 3:52 AM.


#339

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 6:43 AM

So Heather Morris has to "fight" to be in more of the performance where she was singing and dancing lead?


Thanks for the link. I watched the clip and took it more that she wasn't originally included in the Cheerio's floor routine and would be treated more on par with Naya as co-lead of the song (grey dress, close up and single shots, freestyle dancing edits) with cuts to backup Cheerios dancing. It sounds like she just wanted to be part of the floor routine and inserted herself into it, which in my opinion, just pointed out that Naya couldn't do the dancing. Of course, Heather can't really sing, so I guess everyone wins?

#340

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 8:52 AM

It sounds like she just wanted to be part of the floor routine and inserted herself into it, which in my opinion, just pointed out that Naya couldn't do the dancing.

I didn't get that impression at all. I thought that the song was really Brittany serenading Santana, and Santana joining in when it was revealed who Brittany really wanted to dance with. Brittany dancing with people other than Santana, including being a part of the floor routine, made sense in that she was looking for someone. And from this BTS, it seems like songs are recorded before they do the actual performance/make up the choreography, so it's not like they changed the song from an actual duet to Heather singing lead with Naya really just providing backup.

Although I don't think it's a gender thing, unless you count wearing heels and a short dress as a gender issue. They probably didn't want Heather possibly hurting herself by doing that routine in those shoes, while the Cheerios were just in their sneakers. That girl must be a huge insurance liability, can't believe some of the things she does on set (like that handstand she did off the auditorium railing in the background during Mash-Off.)

#341

nicole8705

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Posted Apr 27, 2012 @ 9:01 AM

Although I don't think it's a gender thing, unless you count wearing heels and a short dress as a gender issue. They probably didn't want Heather possibly hurting herself by doing that routine in those shoes, while the Cheerios were just in their sneakers. That girl must be a huge insurance liability, can't believe some of the things she does on set (like that handstand she did off the auditorium railing in the background during Mash-Off.)


I think her touring with Beyonce prepared her for heels and short dresses while dancing. But the handstand I could see as being potentially dangerous.

#342

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 3:14 PM

That girl must be a huge insurance liability


She did a one handed cartwheel, in heels, last year. She's done a lot tougher choreography than this. If they are all that concerned about liability, they would simply put her in flats or tennis shoes. If they were concerned about liability, then they would not have let her dance in heels, not matter how hard she fought.

I think the video was clear, she had to fight in order to do choreography that was obviously well within her skill set.

When they did "Michael" either Kevin or Harry, maybe both, did an interview talking about how they sat down with Ryan Murphy to help select the songs that included their big song and dance number. Remember that awesome routine she did?

Oh ... right ...

Gender bias is more than the Finchel of it all. For me, it includes simply rendering female characters mute and invisible by sidelining female performers in favor of the males. Heather Morris and Harry Shum are the show's go-to dancers. Yet, while we've seen Mike be all kinds of awesome (I did not sniffle during his dance with his mom, I have allergies), Brittany spent a good portion of this season as Santana's depressed looking asexual girlfriend. And it was worse for Tina who quite literally vanished and nobody noticed. Darren Criss misses one episode and Blaine has a storyline, Jenna's gone, and there's a belated somewhat racist blow job joke.

Fun.

Edited by northern eye, Apr 28, 2012 @ 3:40 PM.


#343

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 6:17 PM

That girl must be a huge insurance liability

She did a one handed cartwheel, in heels, last year. She's done a lot tougher choreography than this. If they are all that concerned about liability, they would simply put her in flats or tennis shoes. If they were concerned about liability, then they would not have let her dance in heels, not matter how hard she fought.

I think the video was clear, she had to fight in order to do choreography that was obviously well within her skill set.

"Here's an insurance waiver. Please sign." "Ok!"

Not that I'm a dancer but I imagine it would have to do with the floor and the type of shoes she dances in. It looked more reflective than the usual auditorium floor, though that might also be the white screen. But to me, it's telling that they kept the Cheerios in their sneakers rather than put them in costumes, like the background dancers during Blaine's number. All those girls are professional dancers (I think some of them used to be Beyonce dancers as well) so they should also be used to dancing in heels. Heather probably thought that it was within her skillset to do those moves in those heels, and she proved herself correct, but they might have not wanted to chance her breaking her ankle if she slipped in a number that was deliberately choreographed and wasn't just Heather goofing around.

Not denying that there's a lot of gender bias on Glee but pointing out that I got other reasons from her BTS explanation.
Spoiler


#344

jmcb

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Posted Apr 28, 2012 @ 6:49 PM

I think if Heather wasn't initially involved more in the dance is due to time and or giving her a lighter work load.

#345

fireangel611

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 4:31 AM

For me, it includes simply rendering female characters mute and invisible by sidelining female performers in favor of the males. Heather Morris and Harry Shum are the show's go-to dancers. Yet, while we've seen Mike be all kinds of awesome (I did not sniffle during his dance with his mom, I have allergies), Brittany spent a good portion of this season as Santana's depressed looking asexual girlfriend.

Since when are the female performers sidelined? If you remember in Regionals the boys were on stage for ONE SONG, with only Finn and Artie getting a bit of singing, and Blaine with that awful rap. And that song still had to be shared with Rachel, Mercedes and Santana (girls). The rest of the boys? Sway in the background please.

And then what happened? Santana, Mercedes, Brit and Sugar (girls) got a performance to themselves with Cheerio back ups. Female back ups. And then what happened? Rachel gets a solo with the girls on stage. And where are the boys? On the freaking balconies, because who cares that they're only onstage for 1 out of 3 songs, who cares that even when they were on stage for their only performance most of them barely got much facetime let alone be allowed to sing a line.

Also, if people are not already aware, Rachel, Mercedes, Santana and Blaine are doing the MAJORITY of the singing this season. Those 4 are leading the pack with an obvious distance between them and the singers that follow them. And 3 out of the 4 are GIRLS. Thank god Blaine is the one male voice distinguishing their songs.

When they did "Michael" either Kevin or Harry, maybe both, did an interview talking about how they sat down with Ryan Murphy to help select the songs that included their big song and dance number. Remember that awesome routine she did?

Oh ... right ...

I have a hard time feeling sorry for Brittany being excluded from Michael when Santana got artificially inserted in the Kurt/Blaine/Sebastian/Warbler plot to justify giving her songs and more screentime when her presence was not necessary.

And it was worse for Tina who quite literally vanished and nobody noticed. Darren Criss misses one episode and Blaine has a storyline, Jenna's gone, and there's a belated somewhat racist blow job joke.

That was very bad. However, Blaine is a bigger character than Tina (poor girl) so I can understand why the writers chose to do something about his absence and not hers. He also missed 2 episodes really, since he was absent for most of Heart except arriving for the very last 2 minutes to share a song with Mercedes and Kurt for the Sugar Shack party.

What I don't understand is why Tina doesn't get as much to sing as the other girls. Jenna might not be the strongest actress, so if they cut down her stories I can understand but there's no reason to cut her songs - she's a great performer. Unfortunately she is in competition with Santana and Mercedes for songs since they're all girls, and she's losing out as Santana and Mercedes are taking up the bulk of the songs (and Rachel, but that's expected since S1). So rather than pit her against DARREN who is not in the same league of importance character/plot wise, I'm questioning why she's not getting as much to sing, because that is her strength.

Tina doesn't need a plot related reason to sing if the writers can't be arsed to write one for her, just let her sing on the random group songs like We Got the Beat, You Can't Stop the Beat, We Found Love, We Are Young, Love Shack, How Will I Know, My Love is Your Love etc. (Note, every one of these songs feature either Santana and/or Mercedes)

It's too bad that she didn't ditch ND to join the Troubletones, so that
1) she'd get more songs with them and
2) she could be rewarded for that type of anti-team behaviour with guaranteed songs at the expense of her teammates.

(Or should I say it's too bad Jenna doesn't have a recording contract/solo album coming up? Hmmm....)

Edited by fireangel611, Apr 29, 2012 @ 4:58 AM.


#346

a finn gleek

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 4:37 AM

For me, it includes simply rendering female characters mute and invisible by sidelining female performers in favor of the males.


As much I find this show sexist, this is maybe the only thing that I don't see at all. It's completely the opposite. ND has never had a male solo in competition. As fireangel mentioned, the guys were only on stage for ONE song in Regionals. The girls are portrayed as selfish insane bitches, but one aspect where they succeed better than the boys is performances. The guys got to sing in this year's sectionals since almost all the girls had either left the club or were suspended. And the two that were left, Quinn and Tina (bless her,) got leads. Blaine is the only guy who regularly gets to sing (maybe Finn if we squint) whereas the girls have Rachel, Santana and Mercedes.

#347

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 5:09 AM

It's too bad that she didn't ditch ND to join the Troubletones, so that 
1) she'd get more songs with them and 
2) she could be rewarded for that type of anti-team behaviour with guaranteed songs at the expense of her teammates.

Bolding is mine because this is the type of sexist mindset Glee perpetuates. The girls are made out to be selfish anti-team bitches for standing up for themselves and going after what they wanted? No. Good for them. It's too bad the boys who want lead over Blaine are too weak to demand what they deserve. It's tantamount to 2 people working for the same company and 1 negotiating for a raise. It doesn't make them a bad person, it makes them driven, motivated and quite frankly, smarter than the person who didn't. Mercedes and Santana want(ed) famous music careers, they did what they had to to put themselves in the best position to do so.

#348

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 6:49 AM

Bolding is mine because this is the type of sexist mindset Glee perpetuates.

Oh I agree Glee is sexist, they don't write their female characters/relationships well, no denying that, trust me. But my post was framed from the view that the boys supposedly get better treatment in terms of songs/performing. That particular point I just don't see.

Also, I was talking about the girls ditching ND in terms of how that affected Tina. Who's also girl. It seems that their anti-team and hypocritical behaviour is impacting negatively on another girl who only gets scraps to sing now because Santana and Mercedes are enjoying an enormous boost in songs. I'm not sure if it's a good thing or something to celebrate if one woman's success comes at the expense of another's. I think Tina's drop in songs is probably more because of Santana and Mercedes (girls)(and Rachel as the default lead of the show) than anything to do with Darren (a boy) missing 2 episodes and how the writers like Blaine more than Tina.

It's tantamount to 2 people working for the same company and 1 negotiating for a raise. It doesn't make them a bad person, it makes them driven, motivated and quite frankly, smarter than the person who didn't.

I don't see the TT story as the same as 2 people at a firm and 1 negotiating for a raise. I assume one person getting a raise won't decrease the salary of the person who wasn't ambitious enough to ask for a raise?

From the Kurt thread and inspired by a finn gleek's post, I think sometimes a lot of the problems with the boys are not scrutinised as heavily (which is very understandable). When RIB write questionable stories that has the potential to impact on the boys, there frequently is no big hoopla about it because of their gender, but if the exact same incident happened to a girl, it would be a massive deal.

For example, the boys being dicked over with at Regionals and just in general with song distribution would probably induce more anger if the genders were reversed and it was the girls being offstage for 2 out of 3 of the songs.

For Klaine (who I think are more likely to blind viewers to their potential problems because they're a m/m pairing)

- If Blaine was a girl and transferred from 'her' prestigious school to be with 'her' boyfriend, I think people would be pissed, just like how Rachel sacrificing her dreams for Finn is bad
- If Kurt was a girl and Blaine acted like how he did towards his 'girlfriend' in the car scene in The First Time, I think many would legit freak out, myself included
- If Blaine was a girl and Kurt handled all the slushy/Sebastian/blinding/evidence stuff in Michael without letting his 'girlfriend' play a role and have agency, I think there would've been bigger problems.

But as it stands, because there is no girl, there is less need for scrutiny on how problematic some of the stories have been for Kurt and Blaine than say compared to Rachel who is a girl and in a relationship with a boy. Just something I thought I should point out.

Edited by fireangel611, Apr 29, 2012 @ 6:58 AM.


#349

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:00 AM

That goes for Santana and Brittany too. If Brittany were a boy and did everything she did in "Glee-ver," she'd be utterly vilified. The sex tape alone would be enough, but then you also just have the way she had to teach Santana a "lesson" in that episode, and how Sue and Brittany basically applied to college for Santana. Not gave her the option, but actually went ahead and did it, so that Santana herself couldn't even be the one to apply to college on her own behalf. If Sue were Will, oh boy would we be complaining about that.

The actions of Brittany and Sue towards Santana in "Glee-ver" weren't really all that different from Finn's in "I Kissed a Girl" in the sense of "I'm doing this for your own good" patronizing behavior, but the episode didn't quite create the same stir. I realize applying to college isn't nearly the same as outing someone or a sex tape that mostly involved a cleaning cat; but at the end of the day, Santana had her agency taken away again, and it created less of a backlash because Sue and Brittany are female. Both instances left an extremely bad taste in my mouth, personally.

For me, it includes simply rendering female characters mute and invisible by sidelining female performers in favor of the males.

I have serious, serious issues with the way women are portrayed on this show. But I actually think that in terms of "who is being showcased," this show skews heavily female. They dominate in terms of music and in terms of storylines. Mercedes and Santana in particular have really taken center stage this year in a huge way. The storylines the girls get suck, but they exist. With the exception of Finn and the gay couple, the rest of the boys have a tendency to just play props in the girls' storylines. Sam has been used to service Mercedes's storyline. Artie's just been kind of rolling around without any story of his own all season, whereas last season he was quite front and center. And Puck? Puck was useful when he was a prop for Quinn, but once that was over, he became invisible for months. The Shelby/Beth arc started with a troubled Quinn going all skanky, then she cried and said she was Beth's real mom, then she gave a teary speech about how Beth was the only thing she'd ever do right, then she finally decided to do the right thing. That story was about Quinn and her pain and her struggles and how she came out of it all stronger and ready to put the past behind her. Shelby and Puck were props to provide a backdrop. That's why Quinn is the only character to have gotten closure on it, while Puck probably never will.

And when it comes to who is singing, there's no question the girls dominate this season. Even when it comes to the folks at the bottom of the barrel, people like Quinn and Brittany are slightly ahead of Puck and Sam right now.

Edited by SNeaker, Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:27 AM.


#350

fireangel611

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:25 AM

If Sue were Will, oh boy would we be complaining about that.

The actions of Brittany and Sue towards Santana in "Glee-ver" weren't really all that different from Finn's in "I Kissed a Girl" in the sense of "I'm doing this for your own good" patronizing behavior, but the episode didn't quite create the same stir.

; but at the end of the day, Santana had her agency taken away again, and it created less of a backlash because Sue and Brittany are female

Yes. That is such a good point. Because jeez it pissed me off enormously that Finn's behaviour was vilified but that Brittany got a free pass and even praised for what SHE did to Santana (from some, not everyone of course)

I think the better conclusion to draw is that a girl doing something 'bad' to a girl (like the Brittana sex tape, or the TT girls leaving other girls like Tina with less to sing) doesn't have quite the same impact/scrutiny as a boy doing something 'bad' to a girl (like Finntana in IKAG/MashOff)

And when it comes to couples, there is more scrutiny on the opposite sex couples and heightened attention on how the girl is being treated by the boy. Same sex couples like Klaine are not analyzed under the same microscope. Even I'm surprised by how little I'm aware of the problems in some of their interactions until I substitute one of them for a girl.

Edited by fireangel611, Apr 29, 2012 @ 7:27 AM.


#351

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 10:05 AM

Also, I was talking about the girls ditching ND in terms of how that affected Tina. Who's also girl. It seems that their anti-team and hypocritical behaviour is impacting negatively on another girl who only gets scraps to sing now because Santana and Mercedes are enjoying an enormous boost in songs. I'm not sure if it's a good thing or something to celebrate if one woman's success comes at the expense of another's. I think Tina's drop in songs is probably more because of Santana and Mercedes (girls)(and Rachel as the default lead of the show) than anything to do with Darren (a boy) missing 2 episodes and how the writers like Blaine more than Tina.

I definitely agree I'd love to hear Jenna sing more, she's equally as talented as Lea, Naya and Amber. And she is competing with them rather than Darren. But people's criticism of the TT plot line irks me, seeing as Rachel did the exact same thing when she left ND to join the musical. She wasn't being given solos she felt she deserved, so she left. But since Finn 'needed' her and brought her back that diva behavior seems forgotten; whereas since Santana, Mercedes and Brittany (and Sugar, I suppose) came back on their own they're vilified.

As far as song distribution between boys and girls, that's something that I feel is a real life issue more than an in universe issue. They have strong female singers than male singers, the biggest lead of the show has been a female (Rachel) since day 1, and it seems a lot of the male cast members are interested in doing projects outside of Glee so their time is more limited.

#352

jmcb

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 10:30 AM

But since Finn 'needed' her and brought her back that diva behavior seems forgotten; whereas since Santana, Mercedes and Brittany (and Sugar, I suppose) came back on their own they're vilified.

Sorry can't agree with this Rachel's behavior in episode 4 is basically brought up all the time as if she never learned to be a team player.

Another big difference is the 2 times Rachel has questioned songs she did not get them. She didn't get Tonight and she didn't get anything except to prep the girl who humiliated her at Sectionals. TT complained, left and now gets special treatment to stay.

The girls have always been featured more in songs even if the "girls" was strictly Rachel. But IMO over all the girls have much stronger voices.

Edited by jmcb, Apr 29, 2012 @ 10:32 AM.


#353

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 10:42 AM

seeing as Rachel did the exact same thing when she left ND to join the musical. She wasn't being given solos she felt she deserved, so she left. But since Finn 'needed' her and brought her back that diva behavior seems forgotten

Say whaaaaaaaaa?! Forgotten by who exactly? That's always brought up when people want to comment on how Rachel is a self-absorbed bitch who wanted the spotlight only for herself. And in the end it wasn't Finn who brought her back, it was Rachel who came on her own to be part of the group. And she didn't broker a deal to do so. I get what you are trying to say, spanky, but the way you are describing it isn't exactly how it all went down. And let's be real here, if Rachel had cut the same deal as the TroubleTones back then there would have been blood. When Mercedes and Santana stand their ground they are being assertive and cheered on. When Rachel does it she's a solo hog and still villified for it years later.



eta-damn it! jmcb, beat me to it. LOL! Shouldn't try to cook and post at the same time.

Edited by Mnemosyne78, Apr 29, 2012 @ 10:44 AM.


#354

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 10:46 AM

They have strong female singers than male singers, the biggest lead of the show has been a female (Rachel) since day 1, and it seems a lot of the male cast members are interested in doing projects outside of Glee so their time is more limited.

Amber and Naya have both been working on big studio albums. I'd say they've been much busier than most of the male cast, yet they've still been singing three times as much.

I agree that overall the women on the show have better voices than the men, but I personally like to hear a variety of voices, and I'm just freaking bored hearing the same damn voices all the time. I feel like I barely hear male voices on the show, other than Darren, and he's my least favorite of the bunch.

Also? Matthew Morrison. Best voice in the cast after Lea, imo, and they give him nothing.

Edited by SNeaker, Apr 29, 2012 @ 10:51 AM.


#355

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 11:15 AM

Amber and Naya have both been working on big studio albums. I'd say they've been much busier than most of the male cast, yet they've still been singing three times as much.

I can't speak to Amber, but I know Naya is on record as saying she isn't going to start her album until she's done with Glee. She's been writing forever, but little to no recording as far as I know of. AND there's the difference that Amber/Naya are going into music whereas someone like Chris or Cory have no real interest in music. Not all problems are character/in universe problems, was what I meant. Kurt not singing isn't necessarily because Kurt can't sing or Will is an asshole or the Trouble Tones...it's likely because Chris doesn't care if he sings or not since he has other things going on.

Say whaaaaaaaaa?! Forgotten by who exactly? That's always brought up when people want to comment on how Rachel is a self-absorbed bitch who wanted the spotlight only for herself.

My point being that when people complain about their favorites not getting a solo they're quick to point out Amber/Naya and the TT storyline, but rarely about Rachel and the musical storyline. Rachel/musical is used to point out how Rachel is a shitty person (which she isn't), not to complain about who is singing and when.

#356

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 11:47 AM

My point being that when people complain about their favorites not getting a solo they're quick to point out Amber/Naya and the TT storyline, but rarely about Rachel and the musical storyline. Rachel/musical is used to point out how Rachel is a shitty person (which she isn't), not to complain about who is singing and when.

I think pointing out Mercedes/Santana/TT over Rachel when someone complains their favourite is not getting solos is very understandable and imo, justified.
1) Rachel didn't come back and get guaranteed competition songs. TT did.
2) Rachel has always been lead. If there's one person that carries the show in terms of singing it's Lea. Rachel has actually had her songs decreased from S1.
3) On the other hand Santana enjoyed a major boost in terms of songs (and screentime but that's another topic) from S1 to S2, and then again from S2 to S3. Newbies are remembered more than the girl who's been the singing lead since the pilot.

Not all problems are character/in universe problems, was what I meant. Kurt not singing isn't necessarily because Kurt can't sing or Will is an asshole or the Trouble Tones...it's likely because Chris doesn't care if he sings or not since he has other things going on.

They're definitely not all in-universe problems. This season's song distribution has been dictated by who's got a recording contract. I also don't think the cast whether it's Naya or Chris or Amber have that much influence in all this. The producers and the bosses do what they want. If they want Naya and Amber featured as much as possible, they do just that. If they wanted Chris featured they'll give him songs whether he 'cares' or not. The problem is that Kurt is the one with a season long story about getting into NYADA. They praise him as being as talented as Rachel and Mercedes but they do not show it because they still want the songs to go to Mercedes/Santana/Rachel/Blaine so they can get the solo album promotion.

#357

spanky91088

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 12:13 PM

1) Rachel didn't come back and get guaranteed competition songs. TT did.

That's the point I made in my first post. That's Rachel's fault for not negotiating guaranteed songs (not that she needs to) or whatever else she may have wanted. So could Kurt. So could Sam. So could Artie or Mike or Tina or anyone else. They didn't. That isn't Santana and Mercedes' fault nor their problem.

3) On the other hand Santana enjoyed a major boost in terms of songs (and screentime but that's another topic) from S1 to S2, and then again from S2 to S3. Newbies are remembered more than the girl who's been the singing lead since the pilot.

Well, Santana's been on the show since the pilot as well. Based on the F13 being written (and filmed?) before any audience input, and Santana being integrated into New Directions within those episodes it's safe to figure she was meant to be there all along, not purely put in the group due to popularity. Grated, she has, deservedly, been promoted further, but she's not a 'newbie.' And Mercedes CERTAINLY isn't a newbie.

This season's song distribution has been dictated by who's got a recording contract.

Or by the golden combination of who sings best and sells best.


I think I'm starting to get off topic for this thread though, as we're not really discussing gender issues any more. Maybe we can move over to the Songs thread if you want to continue?

#358

jmcb

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    Video Archivist

Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 12:28 PM

That's Rachel's fault for not negotiating guaranteed songs (not that she needs to) or whatever else she may have wanted.

It isn't Rachel's fault that the others didn't get their act together and for go after solos right off either. Yet Rachel is vilified for being a go getter.

Rachel is always the first to volunteer to offer her service, shes the first to give ideas etc, everyone took that as she expected it not she was trying to take advantage of getting in there first.

Rachel very much takes on the early bird gets the worm.

Edited by jmcb, Apr 29, 2012 @ 12:29 PM.


#359

spanky91088

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    Fanatic

Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 5:07 PM

Here's an interesting bit of info I just read:
Brittany and Santana have been ‘romantically involved’ for 45 episodes and they’ve kissed on screen once.

Kurt and Blaine have kissed 3 or 4 times that I can think of off the top of my head; and all of the opposite sex couples have kissed more times than any of us can count.

#360

TWoP Howard

TWoP Howard

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Posted Apr 29, 2012 @ 5:53 PM

I am very tempted to delete this entire page of posts. Instead of posting about how the show deals with gender issues, most of you are more interested in setting up pointless character wars ("My woobie is treated worse than your woobie") or assuming you can speak for other viewers or predict how they are going to react to some hypothetical you set up in your head ("If Character A acted the same way that Character B did in that episode, s/he’d be vilified!"). That’s boards on boards. Since all of you involved have been posting here for months, if not years, it’s rather discouraging that you felt it okay to ignore the rules. Stop it now.