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Calls for Speculation (no SPOILERS!)


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#1

crashdown

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Posted Jan 7, 2012 @ 6:34 PM

I love trying to figure out the arcs of a well-written drama! My predictions for the rest of the season are as follows:

1. The grand jury looking into Peter will give us some of the much-needed context (the context that Alicia explicitly told Kalinda she didn't want) to the Peter/Kalinda ONS. It will reveal that Kalinda was a fixer of sorts: she covered up some bad stuff that Peter did in exchange for the Kalinda identity. The context will make Kalinda look somewhat better in Alicia's eyes, and Peter much worse.

2. Whatever fallout and reveals that happen as a result of the grand jury stuff will be the second thaw (but not the final one) that moves Alicia and Kalinda back into a friendship.

3. The wonky computers are not simply a running gag or a plot device to put Zack in the L/G offices at critical times--they're actually part of some sort of surveillance, possibly from Bond (remember how he put the keyboard tracking stuff on Alicia's computer last season?).

4. Grace's relationship with Tutor Girl will advance to the point that Tutor Girl tries to kiss her. (I really don't see why TGW can't go there--"Once and Again" had the same plot ten years ago, with Evan Rachel Wood exploring the idea.) Circumstances will conspire to put Grace and Kalinda in an empty room at the same time, and blunt Grace will ask Kalinda something or other that makes it clear what's on her mind. Kalinda will tell Alicia about it, and that will be the catalyst of the third (and final) thaw between the two of them.

5. Will and Alicia's friendship will deepen throughout the season, and Alicia (possibly with Kalinda's help) will work hard to save him from any negative fallout of the WSC attack.

6. By the end of the season, Alicia will begin divorce proceedings against Peter.
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#2

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Posted Jan 16, 2012 @ 11:22 AM

I'm wondering at what point, if any, Diane will find out about the $45K Will "borrowed" from his first firm and what it will do to their partnership. She's totally supportive now because she thinks all Will did wrong was to piss off the state's attorney by sleeping with his estranged wife. Even if he prevails in the bribery investigation, it sounds like he could still be disbarred if the theft came to light. It's probably not advisable for him even to let Diane know, however obliquely, that he overcame a gambling problem, although that's a crucial mitigating/explanatory factor.

Would Diane forgive, or disclose, something like that if she knew it was all in the past? Would it make a difference if she learned it directly from Will? She seems to have completely forgiven the Alicia affair now that it's ended. That was minor by comparison, though.

I'm sure Alicia will find out; thanks to Celeste's disclosure, she already "knows without knowing" (she thought Celeste was blowing smoke). I can't imagine the writers will leave that particular bomb half-exploded. I predict Alicia finds out before anyone (probably from Peter, who already knows), then has to decide how far she'll go to protect Will.
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#3

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Posted Jan 16, 2012 @ 11:32 AM

I wonder about Diane and the 8K too. As someone said on the episode thread, Will was in some seriously murky waters to let a bookie "forgive" him 8K. She's GOT to find out about that, I imagine.
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#4

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Posted Jan 16, 2012 @ 11:59 AM

Would Diane forgive, or disclose, something like that if she knew it was all in the past?


I don't know what she will do, but she knows that Will has from the start of the partnership with Stern, surrendered complete control of Lockhart Gardner's finances to her. IIRC, He stated this in one of the episodes where Celeste was running around?

Will made absolutely certain could not touch LG's funds, and in so far as we have seen Will has never tried to manipulate Diane's management of LG's money either, aside from decisions to cut back perks (flowers, fruit trays etc) and wondering outloud about lay offs. Will has in all senses given complete financial control to her.

She may well be angry, but the fact that Will has completely and totally structured his work at the firms such that he controls nothing of the financial arrangements, can't manipulate the money under any pretext and all cash flow and financial management decisions are Diane's - she might see that whatever happened in the past is in the past. Still, the firm's reputation is vulnerable.

Edited by name234, Jan 16, 2012 @ 12:00 PM.

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#5

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Posted Jan 16, 2012 @ 6:14 PM

I wonder if there could be a cliffhanger about Will or Alicia leaving L/G or about being disbarred? (though I guess the second is not really a viable option because the show must go on)
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#6

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 4:11 PM

Thought I'd bump up this thread in honor of the summer hiatus. Does anyone care to venture a guess on what's going to happen in season 4?
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#7

ilovemoose

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 5:55 PM

I'll bite......

I think Alicia will join her family - happiness in that moment for her, Peter and the kids. Compare that with Kalinda - whose world is about to be blown apart with the arrival of hubby (though I do not think it will be him at that front door, at least not yet).

The news of Peter and Alicia's separation will go public in some way, which leaves Eli with a huge mess to clear up. The question is, what do Alicia and Peter do? She clearly supports his run for governor and I do not think she has a problem promoting that. Peter told the truth in the depo, clearly not thinking about how that can impact his run, just him being honest (which I think Alicia was genuinely moved by). In a reverse of the last race for governor - Peter tied his running with having Alicia's support and they were under a different pressure to appear as a united couple. This go around is different. Both Peter and Alicia have grown and changed, and where I believe Peter is still in love with Alicia and wants her with him, I don't think he's going to try and use the campaign to do it. I think we may see them honestly come together - maybe even privately, while dealing with the public's view and opinion of things.

And I do think we'll see Alicia and Peter back in the house at one point.

Mike is going to cause trouble of some kind (though I do not know how Matthew Perry will film if his show was picked up). I think this will unite Peter and Alicia.....even with this, I'm not convinced that Peter will win. In a way, I think it would be better if he didn't.

While Peter and Alicia are dealing with their relationship and the campaign, I do think Alicia will be drawn into Kalinda's story with her husband. Their friendship has been renewed, they are both protective of each other and Kalinda's husband has talked with Alicia. The question is, how much will Kalinda reveal to Alicia? Is Peter drawn in at all?

The firm....I think there will be some sort of power change with Cary back in the firm and Alicia feeling the pull of being with her family vs being in the law. Her conversation with Cary at the bar highlighted that....her wondering why she is an attorney. If Alicia is distracted a bit given everything that is happening in her life, it gives Cary an opening. The firm needs money and Cary is hungry, he has a drive like the Will and Diane, is single and wants to do well. Peter doesn't like Will, Cary and Will are at odds....and Alicia is somewhat in the middle. I don't know what Peter's call to Cary was about, but I don't think it has anything to do with Cary being a mole, as that would jeopardize too many things.

Will will be back practicing law....it makes me think that we'll see Will and Diane unite even more to save the firm and pull in big clients. They will have to deal with the partner issue as well and how that plays out.

ETA: I think whatever is happening with Jackie will also impact Peter and Alicia, although I do not believe she will move in with him or them. I do wonder if Peter will learn that Jackie took money from Grace and Zach's trust fund.

Edited by ilovemoose, May 7, 2012 @ 8:48 PM.

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#8

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 7:09 PM

Peter told the truth in the depo, clearly not thinking about how that can impact his run, just him being honest (which I think Alicia was genuinely moved by).

Oh, this I disagree with. I think he knew exactly how it might impact his run. He just decided to say it anyway (perhaps realizing that the truth would come out soon at any rate--they won't be able to keep the separation quiet any longer, really).

Alicia will buy the apartment-soon-to-be-condo around halfway through the season.

Cary will be at Kalinda's door, not hubby. I'm guessing hubby will show up at the end of Episode 2.

Jackie will have to move in with Peter, at least temporarily, while she convalesces.

Grace will do something dumb.
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#9

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 7:57 AM

Cary will be at Kalinda's door, not hubby. I'm guessing hubby will show up at the end of Episode 2.


That's certainly a possibility, since we know that he has her address. But he didn't interact with her at all during the finale, so in a way it would seem forced. Will is also a possibility, since he knows she's going to run. (No, we've never seen Will get her address, but with their new bromance, Kalinda might have given it to him at some point.) I kind of hope that it's NOT Cary; I'd like him to stay out of the husband storyline if he can manage to do it.

As for Alicia and the Great Pizza Dilemma, I kind of think she'll get a phone call or a text that will make a direct decision impossible.

Edited by crashdown, May 8, 2012 @ 7:59 AM.

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#10

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 7:28 PM

Since there's a lot of Kalinda speculation in her thread, I'll leave it there but i'd like to address this.

I kind of hope that it's NOT Cary; I'd like him to stay out of the husband storyline if he can manage to do it.


This so much. I know he's back at the law firm so give him other stories and keep him away from the hubby. His crushing on Kalinda didn't go down well with me and I don't see him being any use to Kalinda regarding this. Her bromance with Will is cute and downplayed, which I like so I'd like to keep him away from the hubby storyline too. Alicia has been cleverly involved and I agree with that decision, Peter could very well be involved given the history there and the fact that he is the SA thus giving rise to some ONS angst. If done well I approve. But I would warn the Kings against a Blake 2.0 situation.

Grace will do something dumb.


It's been a while, so we are due some Grace dumbness. I think the election story will involve the kids a lot (Mike did promise a gloves off campaign didn't he?) and I can see Grace in certain situations and someone with a mobile phone nearby, a video going viral, and Eli hitting the roof. Talking of Eli, I'd like to see him get his mojo back, maybe Becca shows up somewhere (I know, I know!)?
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#11

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 10:27 PM

This so much. I know he's back at the law firm so give him other stories and keep him away from the hubby. His crushing on Kalinda didn't go down well with me and I don't see him being any use to Kalinda regarding this. Her bromance with Will is cute and downplayed, which I like so I'd like to keep him away from the hubby storyline too. Alicia has been cleverly involved and I agree with that decision, Peter could very well be involved given the history there and the fact that he is the SA thus giving rise to some ONS angst. If done well I approve. But I would warn the Kings against a Blake 2.0 situation.


I completely agree with all this--I'd like the Bad Husband storyline to involve Alicia and Peter, and nobody else except Kalinda. But when I think about who's *likely* to be knocking at the door, it really seems that it could indeed be Will. After all, he promised to get Kalinda some money, and he needs a little time to pull that off. He could have gone to the bank, gotten a little cash, and shown up to give it to her. I don't think the fact that they might have lost Edelstein would necessarily have meant that he'd have to reneg on that promise.

Are other people kind of expecting this all to end with Kalinda's killing someone in self-defense and being on trial for murder? It just makes sense to me that we're going there. On the other hand, I just reread all of my confident predictions that I made back in January--not a single one was remotely accurate. So I think the best thing for me to do is to remain very, very quiet and engage in self-improvement activities as I wait for it to be September.
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#12

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 11:10 PM

Are other people kind of expecting this all to end with Kalinda's killing someone in self-defense and being on trial for murder?

I don't know...this last season was far more soap opera-ish than the first two, but even so, that seems far more sensasionalistic than this show tends to be.
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#13

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Posted May 9, 2012 @ 12:24 PM

I think the sensation next season will come from the Florrick separation. I think the person on the door is Cary sadly. But just like the S1 finale, the first few seconds can easily erase the cliffhanger and we'll be onto a new case.
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#14

spanishrake

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Posted May 9, 2012 @ 1:11 PM

I do think it will be Cary at the door. And I do think Cary, Alicia, Peter will be involved in the storyline.

I also don't think Kalinda's going to shoot her husband.....at least not for awhile. I think he's going to be a big storyline arc for Kalinda in S4. After all the effort they're putting into casting him & making sure he's "available" and not pending some starring gig in a new pilot, they aren't going to finally cast him to kill him off right away.

Although I too am a little bit worried about a Blake 2.0 scenario. There was an interview with someone somewhere - (Kings or Archie) that alluded to a "control or dominance" thing between Kalinda & hubby which seemed to include sexual attraction/dominance. A comparison was then drawn w/ Blake & Kalinda (Ugh!) I frankly saw no chemistry - sexual or otherwise - between Blake & Kalinda (Blake was horribly miscast) and as far as I was concerned Blake was nothing more than a petulant 2-bit bullying thug and I wanted Kalinda to just shoot the bastard and get him out of her storyline.

Now Lemond Bishop? She might shoot him in self defense (or one of his goons) but again, Bishop is too interesting of a character with too many story possibilities to kill off.

Regardless, I can't wait to see this storyline play out. And I hope it causes Kalinda to open up a lot more to Alicia, for their relationship to rebuild & grow stronger, and show Alicia defending and protecting Kalinda. Because frankly, as 2 total opposites, who despite themselves, have found mutual respect and appreciation for each other,I find their friendship the most interesting of the show.
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#15

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Posted May 9, 2012 @ 8:13 PM

I think the person on the other side of the door is Will. I do think Will knows more about Kalinda and her past then we realize. After all, he was her attorney on the tax case before he was suspended and Alicia took over. I don't know that he will be fully involved in Kalinda's story next season, but I think we'll see them interact.

I don't think Kalinda will shoot her husband ....I think it's entirely possible, depending on what his story is, that he could wind up dead this season and perhaps Kalinda becomes a suspect. If that happens, I think it will be towards the end of season 4..especially if the idea is for the story to be one of the larger ones.

I did read the interview with the Kings on the relationship between Kalinda and her husband. I thought they were describing their past relationship, not necessarily what the relationship is now. Blake was horrid!! There are times where the Kings say something has happened or is happening, but what they think they've written, to me, does not translate on screen. Blake to me was an annoying ass who spent more time trying to screw Kalinda over, then doing his job.

I also think we may see more of Zach and Grace this season as it relates to the campaign and to Peter and Alicia. I don't mind the kids really. I like the family scenes because it is a break from the job aspect of the show and it shows the other side of Alicia and the conflict she has. She loves her role of mother and I believe wants to be a good one. She is pulled between that role and the one of the lawyer on a possible partner track.

I wonder if we'll see Owen at all this season.

Edited by ilovemoose, May 9, 2012 @ 8:13 PM.

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#16

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Posted May 10, 2012 @ 5:47 PM

There are times where the Kings say something has happened or is happening, but what they think they've written, to me, does not translate on screen...
I wonder if we'll see Owen at all this season.


Ha ha. So true. I think sometimes it's the actor (like in the Blake case) but other times the Kings simply don't write what they say they did. I think they handled the Will and Alicia affair well but I know that's not really a popular opinion. Essentially, Will is not Alicia's true love that they (the Kings) were implying in S2 but I don't fault them because people grow and what Alicia thought in college is different from what she thinks now. Owen was used chiefly as Alicia's outlet for all things Will but that seems redundant now, although he could come back to after Jackie. Will's sisters were also fun, they should pop up as well.

Cary is back at LG and was envious f Alicia's office, even though technically she won't have it when Eli moves into full time campaign mode. Alicia helped Cary come back and he's grown since he left, will he take up his competitive role against her again?

Edited by Boundary, May 10, 2012 @ 5:51 PM.

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#17

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 4:41 PM

I never thought Alicia was in love with Will or viewed him as the one who got away. She made a choice - before Peter was in politics and Will was partner in a law firm. She's said, I believe more than once, that she and Will would never have worked. I think that holds true now.

This past season left Alicia with nobody to really talk to.....Owen was there after she ended things with Will and then disappeared for the rest of the season. I like Owen, he's cooky and a fun addition to the mix. I like that we have a member of Alicia's family present, since it appears she does not have a relationship with her mother. Do we know where her father is? Is he alive? Other than knowing her parents are divorced, I've wondered about Alicia and how she grew up.

I do wonder how the Cary / Alicia relationship will go this season. He now has a relationship with her husband, which changes some dynamics a bit. They are not competing for a spot like they were first season, but at the same time, if Alicia is drawn into Peter's campaign and her family, that leaves some room for Cary to grow even more. Tension may grow there, just because of the circumstances and choices that are made.

I have a question about Colin Sweeney.....does anyone think he has this odd attraction to Alicia and the kind of woman that she is?
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#18

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 10:12 PM

I'm scared of Sweeney episodes. They are so over the top that one day I'm afraid the only way to top them would be for him to attempt to kill Alicia.
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#19

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 10:59 AM

I like that we have a member of Alicia's family present, since it appears she does not have a relationship with her mother. Do we know where her father is? Is he alive? Other than knowing her parents are divorced, I've wondered about Alicia and how she grew up.


We don't know anything about Alicia's father, or much about her mother other than that both Alicia and Owen seem to steer clear of her. But what we *do* know is that Alicia thought her parents' divorce was very hard on Owen. (Remember Owen imitating Alicia? "You can do this to me, but you can't do this to Owen.") So that goes a long a way toward explaining why Alicia is so reluctant to divorce Peter, over and above her desire to support his political career. It's very hard for her to do to her children what she saw her parents do to her brother.
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#20

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 5:58 PM

I'm scared of Sweeney episodes. They are so over the top that one day I'm afraid the only way to top them would be for him to attempt to kill Alicia.



I have the same fear about Sweeney......that one day he'll try and hurt Alicia in some way because he has this odd attraction to her. These episodes are so twisted and yet, I find them highly entertaining.
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#21

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Posted Jul 11, 2012 @ 10:17 PM

From the media thread:

stealinghome

Oh, I didn't mean in the sense of Kalinda/AP leaving the show or anything like that. But given JM's very vocal desire for the Alicia/Kalinda relationship to not ever be repaired, I do worry that this is a test run for giving Alicia a full-time confidant who's not Kalinda.

(That or it's a prelude to the show actually going there with Alicia and Kalinda, but as I'm 110% sure that's not the case, my first assessment stands!) 


crashdown

I actually *do* think it's the prelude thing rather than the test balloon, but I'm aware that I read the show's overall narrative differently from the way 99.9 percent of the viewers are reading it. But that aside, I'm pretty sure that Alicia will be talking to Amanda Peet about Kalinda. An outside person--a woman, another lawyer, someone who has been sexually assaulted in some way--could prove the perfect foil for Alicia to discuss some of her feelings about Kalinda and Peter. At any rate, one thing I've learned is not to get too excited over casting descriptions one way or another: I can't think of an instance in which what was described ended up bearing much resemblance to the way the characters played out on the screen. So I'm not-so-patiently waiting for September 30 to roll around, so I can start to judge for myself. 


I'll just kick off that I'm in the 0.1%.

I think season 3 subverted a lot of expectations of the viewers in terms of Alicia's journey. The expectation that she would continue an upward trajectory to increasing independence. Rather than ending the season filing for divorce, she's still only separated. The question of where she will live is still unsettled, and rather than the Highland Park house being a one ep demonstration of 'you can't go home' it's now been bought and Peter and the kids are living there (I assuming that Zach and Grace will be keen to spend substantial time in their house compared to Alicia's apartment.) 

She not only didn't take steps to deepen her relationship with Will, she actively shut him down in terms of discussing the I love you, or meeting her children.

More importantly in terms of the narrative she decided to throw her support behind Peter's run for Governor. Plus we were shown instances of her enjoying the benefits that Peter's position can bring to her personally (getting the kids into school.) I know there is a basis to think maybe the endgame for TGW is that Alicia goes into politics herself (there's been a few notes to imply that.) But I think it's more likely that it's the journey from good /willfully blind to pragmatic / eyes open. 

So my speculation is that Eli is going to have to bring up the question of marital status along the lines of, if they're not getting divorced for the sake of appearances, then they do actually need to keep up appearances. And Alicia's going to move back into the house in that commune arrangement suggested by Grace. 

On the idea of going there with Alicia and Kalinda (oh my fervent shippery heart!) as a jumping off point I can see Kalinda pointing out to Alicia (who's now living back in the house) that if she's planning to spend the rest of her life under the same roof but living separate lives that she need to come to an 'arrangement' for herself unless she's planning to never have sex again and that the same goes for Peter too. But I think any kind of endgame for Alicia and Kalinda is a long long way down the track, end of series kind of stuff. But to quote Colin Sweeney, "if only it were true."
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#22

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Posted Jul 12, 2012 @ 4:12 AM

I also don't think they will actually go there with K/A. As much as I've enjoyed it in fanfiction, I REALLY don't see it on my screen. The two have amazing chemistry and all that and I'm SURE they love each other, I just don't believe they could actually *go* there and take the *in* love route. That being said, I'm also afraid that the new cast member WILL be written as a "test" to try and replace Kalinda as Alicia's confidante. And I HATE the idea. I'm not opposed to Alicia having other friends, even other friends in which she confides, but I am absolutely miserable at the idea that this person *possibly* will replace Kalinda as THE confidante. However, in order to take some advice and "wait until it happens before I give an opinion", I'll leave it at that. I just couldn't NOT say how disappointing this is. (to me, personally). I just hope that the fans really DO have that much power and convince producers and all that many people DO like K&A and their friendship and they DO believe they should be even closer, even after the Peter reveal. sure I get that JM is the star of the show and all that, but it's just wrong that she would be given THAT much power. And really, IMHO, it's high time ALICIA started being there for Kalinda, and help HER with her hubby issues. If they separate the two even more and have Alicia deal with Peter's campaign, and new friend, and Kalinda SEPARATELY dealing with her husband's issues...I just can't even...stopping here!
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#23

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Posted Jul 12, 2012 @ 5:18 AM

But I think any kind of endgame for Alicia and Kalinda is a long long way down the track, end of series kind of stuff. But to quote Colin Sweeney, "if only it were true."


Oh, yes--I agree totally with this statement. If there's an endgame there, it's a final season endgame. The Good Wife won't go on forever, since it's an expensive show to produce. (And that's really ok with me: I'm tired of having shows that I love fall apart by going on for too long.) I think we'll be very lucky to have six seasons, and smart money is probably on five (I've read that the Kings have always had a five-year plan for the show.) Unless next season is a real disaster, I'm pretty sure there *will* be a season five, since CBS seems pretty generous with its renewals and since they really seem to like the show. A K/A endgame would have to be in the show's last season, but if that's to happen it needs to start being set up a lot earlier than that. That's my only point here, other than fact that I personally see that setup happening.

As far as casting Amanda Peet as a friend goes, there's no indication that she'll be a major recurring character, just a recurring character. I imagine we'll see her in three or so episodes, like Lisa Edelstein last season. She won't be taking over the show, but I imagine that (like Owen) she'll serve a key narrative function of getting us inside Alicia's head and letting us know what she's thinking. And there's no way I can't be on board for that!

Edited by crashdown, Jul 12, 2012 @ 5:20 AM.

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#24

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Posted Jul 12, 2012 @ 6:16 AM

I also don't think they will actually go there with K/A. As much as I've enjoyed it in fanfiction, I REALLY don't see it on my screen.

Not sure if you mean see it in terms of the characters being in love (I personally DO see Kalinda as being in love with Alicia, but not the other way around) or if you mean the show supports the idea of going there? But assuming the later, I'm just going to quote crashdown from the discussion of "The Dream Team" because that's how I see it:

This is absurdly romantic stuff! And of course I ate it up, licked my plate clean, and wished for more. It's things like this that convince me that the Kings are at the very least leaving open the possibility of an actual beyond-friends relationship between Kalinda and Alicia. Such a thing seems like heresy on a CBS show, but weirder things have happened. This is a whole lot of angst and drama for an end game of bar buddies and work colleagues!


I think this is really on point. The show could have gone all sorts of ways with Kalinda after the season 2 revelation, but they've made her personal storyline constantly tie back into her relationship with Alicia. Why go to all that effort if it's just to get them back on good enough terms to drink tequilla? The Kings have described Kalinda as 'operatic', I hope that doesn't mean ultimately tragic. (Warning fanwank ahead) But she is somewhat like Countess Geschwitz (the first maintext lesbian in opera) in "Lulu" who is the only one of Lulu's paramours who loves her selflessly; taking her place in prison; sleeping with a man who repulses her to ensure Lulu's escape; supporting her throughout her downfall; and ultimately dying alongside Lulu. Wedekind who wrote the plays on which 'Lulu' is based described her as capable of 'superhuman self-sacrifice'. I think Kalinda taking responsibility for her past catching up with her in the finale can be seen in those terms.

And assuming that the show is about more than just Alicia's transformation, why not Kalinda too? The finale explicitly positioned Kalinda's story as being as important as Alicia's in the final montage in a way that Will's roles in the season 1 and 2 finales were not. Perhaps that was purely network influence that wanted a cliffy cliffhanger and asked that it include the hot chick in the boots, but I don't think so. Throughout the series we've seen that Kalinda lives in a way that can't really be described as emotionally healthy. Her relationship with Donna failed seemingly due to Kalinda being 'heartless', she told Lana she didn't want 'intimacy', she told Will that she didn't need to 'confide in anyone', and she lives in an apartment so neutral it verged on terrifying (no matter how much I coveted her Jonathan Adler furniture) ready to run after buying a sledgehammer. The fact that her husband is being brought on for a multiple ep arc makes me hope that this is more than just illustrating why Kalinda is like she is, but a storyline that allows Kalinda to change.

I can say that after a complete rewatch, the show really does support multiple readings though. I saw so many things two or three different ways after getting my plot strands untangled and running the episodes back to back.
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#25

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Posted Jul 12, 2012 @ 8:42 AM

The show could have gone all sorts of ways with Kalinda after the season 2 revelation, but they've made her personal storyline constantly tie back into her relationship with Alicia. Why go to all that effort if it's just to get them back on good enough terms to drink tequilla?


Yes, exactly. I see the entire storyline shaping up as a patiently constructed grand romance. I'm always a little startled at how few people *do* see it that way, because to me it just seems impossible to ignore. I think there are probably at least three factors that keep it largely invisible as a potential storyline: (1) The Good Wife is a network television show, on a network that has a reputation for generally being conservative; (2) even those people who enjoy same sex slash relationships in fan fiction automatically separate "subtext" from "maintext" and assume that slash will always and necessarily remain subtext; and (3) Kalinda is a woman and not a man.

I read The Good Wife as quietly setting things up to subvert all of those general assumptions. First, I don't think that CBS is as conservative as its made out to be, and they have given the show plenty of leeway to do a lot of things that I've never seen on network television before, like Alicia's oral sex at the beginning of season 2, her onscreen orgasm at the beginning of season 3, and the Kalinda/Lana finger banging at the end of the season. They're also a network that is routinely criticized for a lack of gay characters. So putting all that together, I can see the network (in theory) being on board with the idea of a romantic A/K at the end of the show's run, because it would be good television, it would help their image problem, and it would probably draw in new viewers, many of whom would be from the coveted 18-49 demo in which the show is weak.

Second, what we're seeing is not a subtext thing. There's no doubt at all that Kalinda is openly in love with Alicia, conveyed by both her actions and Archie Panjabi's facial expressions. And the show has a director: someone is encouraging Archie to keep up the silent love and devotion that's so evident in her face, and there has to be a reason for that. Characters in literature don't just suffer and worship for no good reason--it either ends happily or tragically. As currently written, Alicia's feelings for Kalinda are complex and multiple; they're not the simple, hopeless love that Kalinda displays. But there's a lot that Alicia doesn't know about how Kalinda feels and what she's done, so there's plenty of time for growth and change. And there are other, smaller things besides Kalinda's utter devotion: I think the "I"m not gay" bar scene "The Dream Team" packed a huge narrative wallop into a couple of minutes. The simplest explanation for the scene was to remind potentially confused casual readers who were about to learn that Kalinda has a husband that she isn't a textbook lesbian. But I think it was also there to hint at Alicia's possible jealousy of Lana and to start to introduce the idea (a tiny, tiny bit) of a sexual element into Kalinda and Alicia's relationship. All of that can be anything or nothing--it's groundwork, but if nothing comes of it, it's groundwork that never needs to be exploited. But in any case, I don't think that because slash usually remains in the fan fic realm necessarily means that it *always* has to. When one character is canonically "flexible" and clearly in love, and the other is complicated, unhappy, and generally repressed in nature, anything could happen and make sense.

Third, the fact that Kalinda is a woman and not a man shouldn't be an enormous stumbling block in seeing the story as it's developing. I think if Kalinda *were* a man the grand romantic elements of the narrative would be fairly clear to a good chunk of viewers. But just because she isn't is no reason to discount them, either. Alicia would hardly be the first woman in history to fall in love with a woman after being married to a man; it's a thing that can happen. I think if more people viewed the relationship as a possibility, they'd be more open to the developments that are happening on the screen.

And I just thought of a fourth reason--I'm nothing if not wordy! The Good Wife is an unusual show in its subtlety and the consistency of its characters; I agree that it supports multiple viewings. It's not a perfect show: the plots are sometimes a little ragged; the pacing can be off; and timelines can be poorly thought out. But for all that, I've never, ever noticed a real misstep with the characters, who are well drawn and fascinating consistently. (Character is clearly a real priority with Robert King; it comes up in one guise or another in every interview of his that I've ever read.) But because that subtlety and that careful world-building is unusual, and because people don't tend to watch episodes multiple times, or whole seasons in a gulp (as I've been known to do with this show), what I see as an A/K romance in the making might be easier for others to overlook.

And finally, keep in mind this bit from the long interview with the Kings in The Daily Beast:

How much have you thought about [the Alicia/Kalinda] reconfiguration?

Michelle King: Endlessly.

Robert King: We devote two hours a day to just that thought. We would acknowledge that one of the magical moments in the show up until now, and even seeing the dailies, is seeing these two drink together. If that's not one of the main relationships of the show, it's the main relationship of the show. We're working as if these are two real people, what would this new configuration look like, and we're obsessed with it.


Two hours a day is a lot of talk--whatever they're talking about, it's going to be something more interesting than the A/K relationship of seasons 1 and 2. Whether or not it ends up in a romantic relationship, I think it's going to be emotionally satisfying. I think season 4 is going to be all kinds of awesome for really engaging with this part of the story, and I can't wait to get going. Hurry up, September!

Edited by crashdown, Jul 12, 2012 @ 8:57 AM.

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#26

Deco

Deco

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Jul 12, 2012 @ 3:27 PM

When one character is canonically "flexible" and clearly in love, and the other is complicated, unhappy, and generally repressed in nature, anything could happen and make sense.


crashdown, I like the way you think. You may need to adjust that number to 99.8%.

And I fervently agree, that if Kalinda were named Karl, the possibilities would be painfully obvious to most viewers. For whatever various reasons, even Kalinda being deemed "flexible" is not enough to bridge their usual expectations of what a "romance" is or could be, or what can be possible for a lead character on a Network show.

I do still wonder if the Kings will leave it fairly one-sided though, or portray it as a soul mate level of friendship - I personally hope they're bolder, or allowed to be by CBS. But it would be hard to completely take back how central that A/K relationship is to the show, whatever incarnation that ultimately takes. With the Kings spending that much time thinking about those two, I hardly think a viewer is delusional for wondering "what if?".

And wouldn't it be something if for once a show took advantage of wonderful, serendipitous chemistry that was perhaps unplanned, but went for it anyway, and didn't hold off because the people in question happened to be women. That would be a Television watershed moment to me.

Sue me, but I can hope.
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#27

crashdown

crashdown

    Couch Potato

Posted Jul 12, 2012 @ 4:19 PM

And wouldn't it be something if for once a show took advantage of wonderful, serendipitous chemistry that was perhaps unplanned, but went for it anyway, and didn't hold off because the people in question happened to be women. That would be a Television watershed moment to me.


I think that's exactly why I want to see this so much--not for any feminist or political reason, but just because it would be so brave and so cool to see a story really followed to its logical conclusion on network TV. A watershed moment indeed.
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#28

Sydneyside

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    Fanatic

Posted Jul 12, 2012 @ 7:20 PM

I think the Kings have demonstrated they are prepared to take advantage of serendipity. The most obvious and talked about example is that CB brought so much to Diane that character moved far beyond the archetype we saw in the pilot. But Kalinda has also changed in conception because of AP's portrayal, early interviews touch several times on the fact that she was not written to be mysterious for example. The Kings and AP have also frequently mentioned how prepared they are to adjust scenes and dialogue based on the actor's response to the script, which in my experience is relatively unnusual for scripted television. Kalinda's relationship with Cary also came about because of the chemistry between the performers. So I think the Kings are very prepared to make the most of good fortune and they obviously are capable of constructing a multi-layered narrative.

crashdown, you also mention how the show quietly subverts expectations. Jacob frequently touches on this idea in his recaps that nearly everything cute and fluffy on the show has TEETH. And on a show that explicitly, but again quietly, explores ideas of cultural privelege (think Cary's white, heterosexual, male storyline at the SA's office in S3) Kalinda is the most non-normative character on the show: female, queer, of colour, conventionally amoral, and also deeply flawed and in some ways unsympathetic to a degree that's unnusual for a television character. If the good wife and mother ended up in the arms of Kalinda WHILE still married to Peter and the show portrayed that as a positive choice for Alicia's happiness, well I think that would be pretty fucking subversive.

Does anyone else feel like they should be deleting their posts in case they've jinxed it?

Just a thought on the number of seasons, I'm hoping for 6. An article in Variety mentions the Kings signing another 3 year deal. So I hope the ratings stay good enough, and I think 6 is the right number, I'm in total agreement that I would rather this show go out earlier and high.
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#29

crashdown

crashdown

    Couch Potato

Posted Jul 12, 2012 @ 8:10 PM

The Kings and AP have also frequently mentioned how prepared they are to adjust scenes and dialogue based on the actor's response to the script, which in my experience is relatively unnusual for scripted television.


I've picked up on that, too, and I agree that it's unusual and works for the Kings more than it works against them. They really have the ability to use their very talented cast to help with the creative process, and it's a method that led directly to the interesting characters that are on our screens today. Here's an interesting bit that Robert wrote a couple of years ago in an article on The Daily Beast:

In the first season, there was a scene in which Alicia kisses her boss (played by Josh Charles), then goes home and, out of guilt, sleeps with her philandering husband (played by Chris Noth). It was a good sequence: abrupt, surprising, a bit edgy. But then Julianna took all the same lines and actions and turned it into something darker: a comment on female sexuality. Alicia, in Julianna's interpretation, went home and used her husband: used him sexually the same way he used his prostitutes. It was a revelation. And so we started writing toward this: writing toward a wife who continues to use her husband sexually.



I just watched that scene on a rewatch that I'm doing of season 1, and it was incredibly dark and nuanced. I love that Robert King has both the ability and the humility to do this sort of thing with his work. Because yeah, an actual romantic K/A is at the same time subversive as hell and perfectly natural, and doing it would take guts and confidence.

I also have always wanted six seasons, which is what I think of as the right number to tell the story that they're telling. Right now I've adopted a policy of counting on five (I'll be crushed and surprised if the show ends this season) and hoping for six. More than that would probably be a downward spiral.

Does anyone else feel like they should be deleting their posts in case they've jinxed it?


Oh, yes--big time. I hate writing about this stuff, but I can't seem to stop being drawn in nonetheless.
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#30

stealinghome

stealinghome

    Stalker

Posted Jul 12, 2012 @ 9:22 PM

Unfortunately, as JM is so anti-Kalinda (and Alicia/Kalinda), I doubt she'd ever use her creative license to push A/K. Alas. :(
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