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Oprah's Next Chapter: Saving OWN from Folding Completely


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#181

braggtastic

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Posted Mar 15, 2012 @ 12:21 PM

BK's description of her relationship with her mother didn't sound particularly healthy

I have to agree with that. A mother & 19 year old daughter sleeping in the same bed? Seems like there were boundary/maturity issues at the least.
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#182

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Posted Mar 15, 2012 @ 1:09 PM

BK's description of her relationship with her mother didn't sound particularly healthy


Didn't Whitney name BK her guardian during her later years? That has to skew the dynamics of a parent/child relationship. I remember back in 2009 when Oprah did the first interview with Whitney they brought out BK and she described Whitney as being "her girl", her best friend. I remember thinking it way too familiar for a parent/child relationship.

I have to agree with that. A mother & 19 year old daughter sleeping in the same bed? Seems like there were boundary/maturity issues at the least.


Did it reach Lisa Raye/her daughter levels, though. I watched her reality show and remember thinking that she needs to file a restraining order against this woman. When Whitney mentioned BK in interviews it always seemed like there was a extreme attachment Whitney had to BK. One that seemed further than this is my daugher, center of my universe and reached levels of she's my life support, co-dependency levels. But with everything Whitney was going through I can see how it would be easy to fall into that.
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#183

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Posted Mar 15, 2012 @ 2:51 PM

Yeah, get that kid some braces ASAP! I thought Pat was smug and carefully measured her words. I laughed when she said something about her own executive assistant having to do such and such. You have an executive assistant? You were a babysitter for Whitney and not a very good one. The gravy train is over for her.
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#184

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Posted Mar 15, 2012 @ 3:15 PM

In one way I am glad that BK and her Mom had that close time they shared prior to Whitney's passing.

In the Oprah interview, BK opens up and says :

"I still have a voice."

"Yeah we are going to do the singing thing, we are going to do the singing and the acting thing"

I found the 'we' a bit odd. Why not just say 'I' ?

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#185

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Posted Mar 15, 2012 @ 3:28 PM

Yeah, get that kid some braces ASAP!


I laughed out loud at this, as at least 10 people have made the same remark about BK's teeth since Whitney's death. The Kennedys are another family who seem to fear the orthodontist, much to their detriment looks wise.

In Whitney's original interview with Oprah, she told a big tale of how Cissy came to her house with a Sheriff and told her she was heading to rehab, and that "her child" wasn't going to do this to her life. I had a lot of respect for Cissy then. What happened later? I think Gary's exwife is correct, once they got Whitney off the crack pipe, they pushed the pill and booze habit under the rug and Pat got the job of keep Whitney from humiliating the family and herself... without angering Whitney and having her cut off the money train. Pat's remarks about the party and the altercation with the idol contestant seemed very measured. I think Whitney was the instigator in it and Pat didn't want to say it.

If Whitney had taken up with RayJ, I doubt there was much room for BK in that bed.

Edited by ish, Mar 15, 2012 @ 3:30 PM.

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#186

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Posted Mar 15, 2012 @ 3:35 PM

I think she put up with a lot from Whitney and an expectation from the family that it was her job to keep Whitney out of trouble even if it meant kiss her ass.


Just reading this screams a slightly skewed version of what Rachel had with her sister in The Bodyguard. I don't know if Pat sold the picture but I do agree that she seemed...resigned.

I didn't mind the interview. I think if it was a public figure that Oprah wasn't really close to by association, there would be more pressing questions but out of respect of the family, she thought it wasn't a time to pursue it.

Edited by mtlchickie, Mar 15, 2012 @ 3:48 PM.

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#187

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Posted Mar 15, 2012 @ 5:14 PM

Being in charge of Whitney's estate may seem like a payday to us.

Is it a fact that Pat Houston was the executrix of the estate, because I haven't heard that, & Oprah didn't mention it.
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#188

PoeticJustice32

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Posted Mar 15, 2012 @ 10:05 PM

Damn, right after the interview my aunt said don't be surprised if it was Pat who sold those pictures. She said there was something about Pat's demeanor she didn't like and the way she and Gary interacted (barely touching) that seemed off. I told my aunt she's been watching too many soap operas and there's no way Pat would betray Whitney like that. And I'm still holding out the hope, but it aint looking too good. Btw, I must be the densest person because I didn't notice the continuous product placements. I noticed the first candle zoom on the piano, but not the others (if there were any more). Oh well. Not that I would ever buy those candles anyway.

I guess getting her daughter braces wasn't big on the Whitney Houston priority list.

Some people consider the gap tooth thing charming and not a problem that needs to be fixed like say buck teeth or whatever else people get braces for. I personally don't see a problem with it. If BK did she could have gotten them fixed a long time ago, with or without Whitney's blessing.

Just reading this screams a slightly skewed version of what Rachel had with her sister in The Bodyguard.

Ok believe it or not, but I only watched The Bodyguard for the first time like two weeks ago. FOr some reason I just never got around to watching it, but obviously since all of Whitney's movies have been on repeat the last couple of weeks I got a chance to see it, and I did see some parallels between Rachel and Whitney. Art imitating life, or life imitating art?

A mother & 19 year old daughter sleeping in the same bed? Seems like there were boundary/maturity issues at the least.

If its every night then yeah...but I didn't get that it was a nightly thing (though I guess I could have missed it). But I thought it was sweet that Whitney and BK had such a close relationship, its better than the alternative.

"Yeah we are going to do the singing thing, we are going to do the singing and the acting thing"

I found the 'we' a bit odd. Why not just say 'I' ?

Because that's just how kids who are trying to sound cool talk. Its like talking about yourself in the 3rd person.

Edited by PoeticJustice32, Mar 15, 2012 @ 10:10 PM.

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#189

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Posted Mar 15, 2012 @ 10:25 PM

Yes, Gary and Pat Houston are the trustees.

I'm giving Pat the side-eye. First, it was her not answering Whitney's text the day she died. Then it was that comment about the informercial which I don't believe. Whitney died around 3. She was due for interviews, and rehearsals for Clive's party. Didn't Clive's party start at 8? How was she going to do all of that in such a short amount of time? Then there were the cut aways to Marion P. candles. Marion Patricia Houston. Whitney always called her Marion P, and thus the candle name. At least that's what the website says.

Then there's the rumor that celebrity hanger on, Raffles Van Exel sold the casket photos and split the money with Pat. Raffles was also friends with the late great MJ. I'm seeing a pattern...

Couple that with Bobbi K. dating her brother...I don't know what to say about this mess.
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#190

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Posted Mar 16, 2012 @ 1:12 PM

Btw, I must be the densest person because I didn't notice the continuous product placements.

Ha ha, you are not alone, I missed it too.

If Pat sold that picture, then she has a heart of stone because her response was odd, the way she said the word tabloid (TAB--loid), and that printing them was worse than selling them, all very strange. I just cannot imagine she would do that to the family.

I think if Oprah was doing a more hard hitting interview, that would have been perceived as ghoulish.
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#191

OutofTouchUSA

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Posted Mar 16, 2012 @ 3:13 PM

I think if Oprah was doing a more hard hitting interview, that would have been perceived as ghoulish.


It was way too soon for anything more than a softball interview and Oprah & OWN didn't need it - they already had over 3 million viewers (highest OWN ratings to date). Now, if you were jaded, you could argue that by doing a softball interview 1 month after, she can do a sensational tell-all at a later date and double capitalize. I do not think for a minute that Oprah would do that, but someone else might.

I thought it was interesting that Pat said that she was pissed at Whitney for the debacle at the club the night before and that Whitney had been trying to reach her via calls and texts the afternoon before she died. I got the impression that Pat felt bad about this -- and that is understandable, whatever her motives, she supported Whitney (and Bobbi Kristina) throughout her career and arguably failed her the last few hours of her life. If Pat feels guilty, I think the guilt is unwarranted.

If indeed Whitney was gay, she was obviously tortured by it (for personal and family reasons), maybe to the point of taking drugs which may have caused her death. A month after her death is not the time to point fingers and assign blame. Although there were some teasers where Pat was saying "I think Whitney's lifestyle led to her downfall" -- and those in the "Whitney's gay" camp thought it was the smoking gun, in the end, it was Pay saying "chasing much younger bad boys" was the lifestyle in question.

IMO Oprah is trying to avoid making OWN "too gay." For example: Last Friday the Rosie Show was solely dedicated to gays and lesbians -- from the two guests that Ro interviewed to clips of a Rosie Show staff roundtable discussing "coming-out" stories with one staff member going so far as to read an actual "coming-out" letter he had written to his family. Every day the Rosie Show twitter account tweets details about that day's show - but no tweet on Friday.
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#192

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Posted Mar 16, 2012 @ 8:23 PM

Could someone please explain to me the source of the "Whitney's gay" rumors? I've heard it persistently throughout the years but was always genuinely confused by it. Lots of celebrities ping my gaydar, but Whitney never did. Is it just because she was close with longtime friend Robin or is there more to it?

One thing is for sure, Whitney sure was an enigma. The Whitney of the 80's and 90's always came off as so calm, cool, and composed. Who could of imagined that the Whitney Houston in 1992 would transform in to the Whitney of the past 10 or so years and would die like this? It really is a shame.
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#193

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Posted Mar 16, 2012 @ 8:42 PM

The Whitney of the 80's and 90's always came off as so calm, cool, and composed. Who could of imagined that the Whitney Houston in 1992 would transform in to the Whitney of the past 10 or so years and would die like this? It really is a shame.


I think what most of us fail to realize is that the Whitney we saw for the last 10 years or so of her life was the REAL Whitney Houston. As someone said, Whitney has always been "street," for lack of a better term. However, when Clive Davis discovered her he turned her into the girl next door/glam diva/black barbie of the late 80's early 90s. Basically she was molded into an "acceptable" image to match her outstanding voice which is why people were so appalled when she married Bobby Brown. Why many blamed him for her descent into drug addiction because sweet, upstanding Whitney would never entertain such behavior. When the reality was she would and she did because that part of her that married Bobby Brown and engaged in such a destructive relationship with him was IMHO the REAL Whitney Houston.
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#194

Billie Jean

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Posted Mar 16, 2012 @ 10:35 PM

Why many blamed him for her descent into drug addiction because sweet, upstanding Whitney would never entertain such behavior.


I never thought Whitney was a perfect angel. I could buy that Whitney did drugs pre-Bobby Brown. I just always struggled with watching her unravel the way she did. She didn't seem like she would break like that. But then the thing about Whitney is that we will never really know who she really was. The only two sides we ever saw of her were the fake Clive persona and the high/strung-out/ crackhead persona. I wonder if the root of Whitney's issues is that even she really didn't know who she was.She had the perfect face, body and voice on the outside yet had so many issues going on within.

Just watched The Bodyguard for the first time. It was eerie how much Rachel's sister in the movie reminded me of Pat. Also, in the movie Rachel's sister sings "Jesus Loves Me" the day before she died. Isn't that the last song Whitney sang on camera right before she died as well? Super creepy.

Edited by Billie Jean, Mar 16, 2012 @ 10:36 PM.

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#195

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Posted Mar 17, 2012 @ 2:02 AM

Could someone please explain to me the source of the "Whitney's gay" rumors? I've heard it persistently throughout the years but was always genuinely confused by it. Lots of celebrities ping my gaydar, but Whitney never did. Is it just because she was close with longtime friend Robin or is there more to it?


Billie Jean, I'll tell you what was told to me, and you can take it or leave it. I once worked with a young woman who went to the same high school as WH. She was much younger and was not there when Whitney was, but with a star of that magnitude, stories were repeated and passed down. My friend said it was well-known around the school that Whitney was gay and quite open about it. She and her girlfriend even went to the prom together. It was not considered a big deal.
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#196

PoeticJustice32

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Posted Mar 17, 2012 @ 3:26 PM

Now, if you were jaded, you could argue that by doing a softball interview 1 month after, she can do a sensational tell-all at a later date and double capitalize. I do not think for a minute that Oprah would do that, but someone else might.

I don't think one has to be jaded to believe this. Hell I love Oprah, and I'd be shocked if this didn't happen. Oprah just loves to do her 'follow-up' interviews. I think maybe that's why they didn't wait for the autopsy results. It would be just one more thing that can be discussed in the follow-up. With the ratings success and now the rumors that *gasp* it might have been Pat herself who sold those photos, its going to be a gold mine for Oprah. The only question I have is can they wait for the one year anniversary or will they do the interview later on this year.
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#197

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Posted Mar 17, 2012 @ 6:55 PM

I must be the densest person because I didn't notice the continuous product placements.

I didn't either- I remember Pat talking about the infomercial & them quickly showing the burning candle once, but beyond that, I didn't notice anything else.

I could buy that Whitney did drugs pre-Bobby Brown.

Pat Houston flat out said that- Oprah asked something about Bobby being the one that led her down the path to drugs, & Pat shook her head no & said, 'I wouldn't say he led her down that path. Not at all.' That meant she was already doing drugs when she hooked up w/ Bobbaaaaay. I really wish Oprah had asked, 'what do you mean,' but as usual, Oprah didn't ask any follow-up questions.

the reality was she would and she did because that part of her that married Bobby Brown and engaged in such a destructive relationship with him was IMHO the REAL Whitney Houston.

IMO Whitney was a tremendously complex person who was of the street & could also meet the queen. It's another avenue Oprah didn't go down, unfortunately.
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#198

snowbunny54

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Posted Mar 17, 2012 @ 9:40 PM

Oprah’s Lifeclass The Tour is coming to the Metro Toronto Convention Centre. This special event will feature an expanded lineup of motivators and visionaries including Tony Robbins, Iyanla Vanzant, Bishop T.D. Jakes and Deepak Chopra.


Oy! What a bunch of nuts. Who, other than O, will even take any of these people seriously? Tony is a snakeoil salesman, Iyanla can't even manage her own life, all I know of T.D. is he is $hill's buddy and that doesn't speak well of him, and Deepak drinks his own urine!
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#199

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Posted Mar 18, 2012 @ 1:19 PM

Does Lady Gaga ever stop? Does she not worry about over exposure at all?
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#200

King Cat Sam

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Posted Mar 19, 2012 @ 12:09 PM

Yeah, she is stopping or going underground for awhile as this was her last interview. Let's see what her metamorphosis entails. Bring on the booze and drugs and tightly close the door.
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#201

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Posted Mar 19, 2012 @ 6:02 PM

I have not paid too much attention to Lady Gaga but I did watch the interview and the more I watched the more I thought she has some serious depression issues. She seems like a good person and although she was trying to keep her life on the DL she gave quite a lot of info away on herself. She seems like she is so aware but to those of us that have lived through our teens, twenties, thirties and beyond know that things change quite a bit from decade to decade. I'm in my mid forties now and life seems sooo much easier than it was in my teens and twenties. Maybe LG will find some peace in the years to come.
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#202

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Posted Mar 19, 2012 @ 6:56 PM

Gotta call bullshit on "Gaga." Since when is Whitney Houston her biggest inspiration. She never claim that til now. I remember when she dedicated Madonna's remake to Whitney, and I was puzzle. I thought she grew up on the mean streets of the LES, like Rosario Dawson. It's good they showed all those clips of her originally, before she stoled that poor girl who committed suicide image. She's such a fraud.

However, Mama "Gaga" is very regal.
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#203

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 1:09 AM

Good grief, who is this woman and why should I care? Oprah kept referring to her as the best thing since sliced bread, and I couldn't agree less. Bad hair choices, Frankenstein shoes, and ridiculous costumes do not make a world leader of any sort. Plus Oprah kept puting words directly into their mouths. Shut up, woman! Let your interviewees speak for themselves, however they manage to do so. This was one more big long puff piece.

You got the money and the power, Oprah, but somehow you just can't stop kissing ass. Nauseating.
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#204

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 8:45 AM

Plus Oprah kept puting words directly into their mouths.


I watched her original interview with Whitney and noticed that she did this. So much so that it left me wandering was Whitney being truthful with her or just letting Oprah take her where she wanted to go. She puts words into the interviewee's mouth then agrees with them like they made the conclusion all on their own. If Oprah had been a lawyer she would constantly be reprimanded for leading the witness.
Also she tends to be overly empathic with them.

Edited by nicole8705, Mar 20, 2012 @ 10:35 AM.

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#205

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 11:49 AM

From one of many such articles this morning:

Layoffs at OWN

Methinks Rosie might've gotten out before it really got bad - or these folks were part of her show and they go with her. YMMV, but I think this goose is about cooked.
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#206

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 2:36 PM

Although I think she's partially disappointed her show wasn't a huge success again, I think Rosie is glad to be done today. Immediately she was tweeting All is OK etc. This way she gets to fly to Miami today & celebrate her birthday for weeks. I think talk shows really need laser focus of the host and extremely dedicated, loyal behind the scenes people on the same page. With Rosie in the throes of romance, I do not think all her energies were dedicated to the show, and I'm a big fan of hers. I also think there were communication issues with the top executives in charge behind the scenes.

Sometimes when referring to the staff, Rosie would say they're kids, this is their first job. Other times she would describe them as loyal Harpo employees who have been there over a decade. Which was it? Both can't be true. Yes, it's true some could be decades-long employees and others just starting out, but the staff has to mix together. It almost seems like there were levels - the Oprah people & the new hires. Rosie seemed to like joking around with the young kids on camera, but I didn't see much of that with the people I recognized from Oprah's behind the scenes show.

One of the articles said they wanted to do regular behind the scenes w/Rosie too, but they didn't have the budget or enough staff to do so. That really surprised me, since it seemed like there were at least 150 people working on the show, especially the first few months. How many people does it take to put together a weekly behind the scenes episode? Two or three camera & sound people and a few editors? Maybe I don't understand how many people it takes to make a show like that.
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#207

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Posted Mar 22, 2012 @ 5:03 PM

Autopsy reports just announced that Whitney Houston died of drowning & heart disease caused by cocaine use. Toxicology results showed that she had marijuana, cocaine, Xanax, & Benedryl in her system.

So I guess either Pat Houston didn't know exactly what Whitney was into, or she did, & lied to Oprah's face- though I'm now wondering if when she said to Oprah that Whitney was looking for love w/ the wrong person (meaning she didn't like Ray J), if that was because she/they knew Whitney was using w/ Ray J.
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#208

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Posted Mar 22, 2012 @ 6:33 PM

So I guess either Pat Houston didn't know exactly what Whitney was into, or she did, & lied to Oprah's face- though I'm now wondering if when she said to Oprah that Whitney was looking for love w/ the wrong person (meaning she didn't like Ray J), if that was because she/they knew Whitney was using w/ Ray J.

I don't think so. I think Pat knew what Whitney was into and just looked the other way. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you," and what not. It's not in Pat's best financial interest to rock the boat. It's easier to just enable and collect your check. Wouldn't shock me that she lied to Oprah.
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#209

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Posted Mar 22, 2012 @ 7:35 PM

" I have to agree. Even though in the interview Pat claimed to be one of the few friends that told Whitney like it is over the years, do we really believe that considering how destructive Whitney's drug use got? I don't think so. I also believe she continued to enable Whitney through her toughest years up until her death in part because she didn't want to lose the perks that relationship brought.

Edited by Enero, Mar 22, 2012 @ 7:36 PM.

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#210

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Posted Mar 22, 2012 @ 10:07 PM

Shit, Whitney, really?! Damn. It's not like I'm surprised at all (I never believed she was clean) but still. The heart disease probably would've gotten her in the end anyway but what a disgraceful way to go out. She let coke take everything away from her, including her life. I so wish she didn't have to become a stereotype. What a damn shame.

ETA: I'm 100% positive Pat was the one supplying Whitney the coke and was the one removing it from the scene after she was found dead.

Edited by Billie Jean, Mar 22, 2012 @ 10:24 PM.

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