57 replies to this topic

[Fisher King]

Cullen is assigned a mission of vengeance by Durant. Lily tries to settle in at the camp.

This show is finally finding its groove. The last few episodes consistently better, IMO.

The Swede totally had that beatdown coming, although I was a little surprised by it. Better watch your back now, Bo. Oh, and the Swede is actually from Norway. Who knew.

Wonder what Lily will do for cash now that she's on her own. And it looks like the preacher is full out nutcase, and his daughter has feelings for Joseph after all. Hope Joseph makes it back alive.

Edited by Fisher King, Jan 2, 2012 @ 3:45 AM.

[Dowel Jones]

Damn. We can't call him the Swede anymore. I loved that expression on his face though. "But, but, I'm from Norvay. I'm Norvegian".

Seems to me that the Lieutenant got his commission out of a box of Cracker Jacks. You lost your horses, fool. You're going up on foot against some of the finest horsemen in the West, possibly outumbered too. Just because you're an Army officer, bent on revenge.

I'm curious how Eva ended up in Arizona Territory that early. The writers mentioned the Yavapai and the Mohave Indians in her description of how she got the tattoo. I read in another string that the tattoos were descriptive of the Mohave Indians, so they got that right.

Edited by Dowel Jones, Jan 2, 2012 @ 3:09 AM.

[Tvshowgeek]

Inside Episode 1.08 “Derailed “

[lostmind]

I think the officer did not see that much of war.

[taiko]

Oh, and the Swede is actually from Norway. Who knew

He either told the just the audience or it was Cullen when he was held awaiting the gallows.

Seems to me that the Lieutenant got his commission out of a box of Cracker Jacks. You lost your horses, fool. You're going up on foot against some of the finest horsemen in the West, possibly outumbered too. Just because you're an Army officer, bent on revenge

Look up Fetterman's Massacre. An officer of the 18th Infantry in the same period thought he could do the same thing. And most of his men were armed with rifled muskets, not the Henry Rifles that all of the Lieutenants troopers got from who knows where. On gun porn issues it was as big a failure as the multinational assault weapons the "rage tag" militia has on Falling Skies.

[8matt8]

I hate that lieutenant. His "we won the war" statement was so arrogant. He probably didn't do anything during the war...and the confederate saber that he wears as a trophy was probably taken from a dead soldier. I'm glad to see Eva get some extra screen time. She's a very interesting character. I like the way she is showing kindness to Lily and sort of watching out for her a bit. I also enjoyed how Eva took Elam down a notch when he came swaggering into her tent. You can tell she's been self sufficient for a long time and won't let anyone boss her around...even the man she cares for. Wonderful episode!

[nerdymya]

When Durant asks Lily why she came back to Hell on Wheels if she isn't going to be his mistress, she replies something along the lines of "because I know we can build this railroad together!" I don't understand her implication that Durant needs her to succeed since she already handed over her late husband's maps. Any ideas?

[taiko]

Lily may see the railroad as the legacy of her late husband. With probably no children his aiding in the grand project is how he will be remembered, even if she didn't wear black for the appropriate amount of time

Edited by taiko, Jan 2, 2012 @ 3:00 PM.

[thuganomics85]

Cullen, Ellam, and Joseph really are an odd trio. It's like a setup for a Western version of one of those "This guy, this guy, and this guy walk into a bar" jokes. But I kind of love it. In fact, isn't this the first time Joseph really gets to interact with the leads? I'm glad they are giving him more to do. I hope the poor fellow gets through all this alive, but it looks like he really will be getting caught in the middle of this battle.

So, the preacher was apparently a very violent nutcase at one time, and he might be going back down that path. This has the potential to be ugly. It helps that I just watched the one season wonder Kidnapped on DVD, where Tom Noonan played a scary dude who kidnapped and tortured Jeremy Sisto's character for info, so I know this guy can be crazy. Liked the daughter not backing down though.

I saw it coming a mile away, but I kind of like Lily and Eva bonding. I'm glad they are giving Eva more to do in general, besides being with Ellam all the time. Still loving Lily, but I'm a bit concerned for her. She's tough, but I wonder if she can really handle the hardship of living at Hell on Wheels on her own.

Oh, Swede. I love you, but you deserved that ass-whupping. Loved his hurt "But I'm from Norway!" remark at the end. That poor creep is unraveling and really losing his cool. Going after Cullen like this is not healthy for him.

Despite the fact the actors are in the main credits, this is about the third episode in a row the Irish bros haven't even been on the screen. I think the Swede and Eva have had more episodes then them. Looks like they'll be back next week though.

Good episode. I'm optimistic that the show has found it's footing finally and I hope they really go all out in these last few episodes.

[Dowel Jones]

I watched the episode again on tape and something else caught my eye. When Joseph and the preacher's daughter (forgot her name, sorry) were in the church/hospital after the derailment, the camera made a point of staying on her hand and midsection after she pushed Joseph away. I wonder if she is pregnant, either by him or before she got there.

[taiko]

In fact, isn't this the first time Joseph really gets to interact with the leads?

He rescued Lily and then Cullen saved him from the bounty hunters and took Lily back to Hell On Wheels, fearing the reaction of an Indian bringing her in.

That poor creep is unraveling and really losing his cool. Going after Cullen like this is not healthy for him.

We saw when he was trying to pull Beauty out on Cullen that the Swede wasn't a gunfighter, The Swede depends upon intimidation to do his job. Cullen walking around, after he was sentenced to death, cuts the legs from underneath the Swede and others might make different calculations when determining their own immoral mathematics.

[8matt8]

The preacher is really creeping me out...what a nutjob! His name and face were already familiar to me and then I remembered that he scared the crap out of me playing a serial killer who sets the guy on fire in the movie that was based on the Thomas Harris novel. I'm ashamed to say I can't remember the name of the movie...brain freeze...can anyone help me out on that one? Mr. Noonan does a good job of playing whackos and I'm sure he'll provide some very interesting moments on this series as well.

[taiko]

Manhunter with William Peterson. Brian Cox played Hannibal Lector

[nodorothyparker]

Pretty good episode in all. It figures that the show is really finding its legs when it's down to only two more new episodes.

I like Lily a lot, and I like her bonding with Eva. I think her smackdown with her husband's family in the last episode was meant to show that she doesn't really have a clear place to belong anymore now that he's dead. And I can even buy that she decided to return to Hell on Wheels thinking that at least she could be close to or a part of her husband's legacy there. What I'm not seeing is what exactly she plans to do there. How does she plan to support herself? I didn't get a sense that she'd even really thought about it or how her returning with Durant looked until Cullen said he hadn't expected to see her as a kept woman. Her moving out on her own felt very reactionary.

Following that train of thought it seemed like the show was trying to have it both ways with her. When we first meet her, she's been living out on the plains with her husband and the other surveyors for over a year. She alludes to this more than once when anyone suggests living in camp is going to be hard or unpleasant. But then there she is muddying up her very pretty but completely impractical wardrobe (She must have borrowed the magic bottomless bag from Harry Potter to be carting all of those clothes around.) and barely contain her disgust at the camp food or its inhabitants. I realize her husband may have shielded her from some of the more unpleasant aspects of camp life, but it's still hard to imagine life in a surveyors' camp was really that much more refined.

I do really love Eva though and I love that they're filling in some of her backstory and making her a more fully fleshed out character.

[8matt8]

Taiko, thanks for the Manhunter info. Tom Noonan was great...he still gives me the heebie-jeebies. I have a feeling he's going to start bringing the crazy to HOW...he'll be vying with the swede for the title of resident town psycho.

[smithgirl]

Until the week I was getting into the grove of this show - but (looks like I'm the minority here) I HATED this week - one preposterous story line turn after another. I hope it is going somewhere, but I used up all my suspended disbelief for this season of Dexter.

[Saul]

The swede on his knees as Cullen whips him seemed rather far fetched to me. The head of security in a place like that would be able to kick the crap out of anyone. The swede is a big dude.

[HandBanana]

Until the week I was getting into the grove of this show - but (looks like I'm the minority here) I HATED this week - one preposterous story line turn after another. I hope it is going somewhere, but I used up all my suspended disbelief for this season of Dexter.

I hated it, too. Well, didn't care for it, anyway. I was thinking before it started that I was just not caring anymore. I cannot buy into the far-fetched story lines. I just do not believe that Elam would pursue Eva and vice versa. Even if they're both supposed to be outcasts, him because of his race and her because of her profession. No guy in that time - hell, hardly any in this time - would consider having a romantic, more-than-just-sex relationship with a prostitute. Never, ever, ever. Certainly not a guy like Elam, who is intelligent and dignified. I also don't believe that a woman like Lily would associate with Eva. No way.

Ditto on the whipping scene being far-fetched.

I too noticed the hand on the preacher's daughter's belly. If she is pregnant by Joseph, that will be yet another far-fetched storyline. Two religious people who start fornicating (ha!) right away in the late 1800s? And Joseph regards her dad as a father figure, too. That would be too far-fetched to swallow. (Although I have a thing for the actor and would like to see him get more naked onscreen, ha ha.)

WRT the preacher himself, I don't know if I just don't like the actor, or if he's actually doing a good job by irritating me. I've seen him in other things and he always seems to be so intense, but also as if he's about to wink at the audience. Ditto for Colm Meaney. He's so in-your-face and insistent. I can't decide if these are really good performances, or they're tiresome.

[Bentley]

I'm enjoying the show more with every episode.

I wonder if Lily is regretting handing over those maps for free now. I don't understand the Colm Meaney character's accusations that she played him or led him on in some way. And the fact that they didn't have her deny it and instead turn away as if in guilt made me think we're supposed to agree with him. But I didn't see it onscreen. Lily hasn't earned any money off of him unless he paid all the expenses for her trip to visit her relatives. But even then I don't see how she played him.

I'm liking the flashes of humor they're giving Cullen now e.g. his laconic "Yep" to the question of whether he'd ever been told he was a pompous ass, and his advice to Elam not to stay twice as long with his girl just to impress him. And speaking of twice, I like that they have Cullen pronounce this word like a backwoods Southern boy, i.e. twicet (rhymes with heist).

[Tippi Blevins]

I realize her husband may have shielded her from some of the more unpleasant aspects of camp life, but it's still hard to imagine life in a surveyors' camp was really that much more refined.

I think the difference now is that she's totally on her own. In the surveyor's camp, there were men to set up the tents and keep her clean and dry. Now she's setting up entirely on her own in the urine-soaked mud and realizing she might not be as independent as she thought. I hope she bucks up and gets through it instead of going back to Durant.

I love her friendship with Eva, even if it doesn't seem entirely realistic. Enjoying Ruth, too.

[vadafaith]

The last episodes have been much stronger, IMO. Although I am very forgiving about this show because there's so much I like about it, including most of the performances. I was one happy cookie when I heard about the second season (but color me surprised -- didn't expect it). Also, I admit being a little obsessed because I watched the episodes again during the marathon, from the beginning, and stuff that bugged on first round held together better; probably because questions that took a week to answer first go-around were addressed more directly - or the clues and cues were closer together or something.

The Swede told Cullen the first time they met (in his rail car) something like, "They call me the Swede, but I'm from Norway." I think he was a mild-mannered character before the war, who learned to survive by being more conniving and more ruthless while in Andersonville. But he may never have possessed physical courage, just the ability to convince or pressure others to do his dirty work. Without his henchmen he didn't have the stones to stand up to Bohannon. The Swede's going after him now, after the public humiliation, using his brain. He must have grabbed all the papers from Johnson's/Cullen's tent to piece together his case against Cullen. Good thing Cullen burned that photo.

Bohannon's story about killing Union soldiers at Burnside Bridge makes me understand his facility to kill a bit better. Cullen had to take a step back a few times this episode: with the lieutenant over the sword (and the war); when he wanted to high-tail it after the horses were taken and Joseph said that was the wrong thing to do. He's used to calling the shots. But he's growing as a character because he's listening to others.

Good catch on Ruth and her belly. It wouldn't be Joseph's though. Maybe that's why the folks at the mission back in Council Bluffs sent her on her way? I always thought that didn't sound very Christian of them. But if she's a fallen woman, they would consider her not fit for "good" company. Did the reverend have a stroke? An epileptic seizure?

Regarding Elam and Eva, I think that certain men would take up with prostitutes. For instance, Virgil and Wyatt Earp both found their women in whore houses. I think Virgil actually married his partner, but Wyatt traded up for the actress Josephine Marcus.

I don't understand the complaint about the Henry rifles. Wikipedia (fallible, I know) says that by 1864 they were producing 260 a month and that they were favored by Union soldiers, although they were not issued by the government but privately purchased.

I enjoyed the scene where Cullen chased Lily down to welcome her back to camp! "What are you doin' back here?" He really is invested in the madonna-whore dichotomy. "Takin' up with the likes of him."

It's interesting that while Lily called Cullen an insufferable ass, she still cares about what he thinks. Maybe it finally occurred to her, as it should have, that everyone in camp probably thinks the same thing -- she's now Durant's kept woman. After all, she's already been "sullied" by the renegades. I had hoped that Durant would have been more pleasant about her rejection, but it's really not in his character to be gracious in success or defeat. It appears he's threatened by the connection Lily and Cullen have. He didn't like her conversing with his hired gun. "Lily! Dinner is ready."

I was a little jarred by the man who carried her bags propositioning her. Proper ladies were so few and far between in the West that they were venerated by most men. But maybe Lily's reputation has suffered enough that the guy thought he had a shot at it. He sure looked deflated when Eva was done with him.

Little shout-out to the Irish brothers -- a shot of their lantern show sign in the mud.

ETA: Elam really, really enjoyed watching Bohannon horsewhip the Swede.

Edited by vadafaith, Jan 3, 2012 @ 12:48 PM.

[nodorothyparker]

I found watching the entire season in one sitting where it was easier to see the characters and story evolve helpful too.

I'm of two minds about what the closeups of Ruth are supposed to mean. I initially took it as emphasizing that she was growing closer to Joseph and allowing him more familiarities than a proper woman might, especially from a man who wasn't white which was clearly an issue for her in an earlier episode. But I suppose it is entirely possible that what previous posters are suggesting is why the people in Iowa sent her packing. It would be interesting if she's not as pure and delicate as she has presented herself.

I don't find Elam and Eva at all implausible from his standpoint. Historically, a fair number of men on the frontier did end up paired off with former working girls. There weren't enough women in a lot places for them to be that finicky, and for a black man like Elam given attitudes of the time, even fewer that wouldn't be insulted by his interest. In the episode where we're introduced to her, Elam seems to initially think he has a shot with her because she's been with Indians. The implication seems to be that maybe she thus isn't as set against a man of color. Her first alone scene with him, she also comments that she can't charge as much as the other girls because of her past/tattoos and would likely make even less if it became known she'd associated with him. I get she likes him because he seems to be interested in her for more than a quick lay for money. I just wonder if she's thought through how wise it really is given that last week they were ready to lynch him for it and she presumably still has to make a living there.

Good call about Lily's reputation likely having suffered from all that fair-haired maiden of the west nonsense with its breathless account of her having been "sullied," followed by her showing back up in camp apparently still living with Durant. Victorian society really venerated ladies but could be pretty harsh on "fallen" women. I'm guessing that, with her current lack of a male protector in the form of a husband or even Durant, is what the crying muddied scene in the tent was supposed to be about. She was clearly unprepared when the guy carrying her stuff asked if she wanted to make other arrangements for payment.

Edited by nodorothyparker, Jan 3, 2012 @ 2:16 PM.

[taiko]

The rifle was bought by Civil War volunteers, not the Regular soldiers with less monatery resources who served on the frontiers after the war. About the only time it was used during the Indian Wars was like the Fetterman massacre where a few civilians scout/guide, militia glory seekers had the rifle while the army still had the standard civil war muzzle loading rifled musket which 90% of the soldiers carried two years before the events in the series. Even the Calvary when they did have repeating carbines, it was not the very expensive Henry.

edit to add.
In Custer's last stand 10 years in the future the 7th Cav troopers carried single shot carbines. The Henry would be like Horatio Cain having a 50 Cal sniper rifle in his crime lab Humvee. They are made, but his character should not have it.

Edited by taiko, Jan 3, 2012 @ 2:47 PM.

[vadafaith]

The rifle was bought by Civil War volunteers, not the Regular soldiers with less monatery resources who served on the frontiers after the war. About the only time it was used during the Indian Wars was like the Fetterman massacre where a few civilians scout/guide, militia glory seekers had the rifle while the army still had the standard civil war muzzle loading rifled musket which 90% of the soldiers carried two years before the events in the series. Even the Calvary when they did have repeating carbines, it was not the very expensive Henry.

I really enjoy exchanges like this, because they lead me to fascinating corners of the internet. I found a really, really detailed outline of the use of Henry rifles in the Civil War: http://www.rarewinch...rt_hen_02.shtml

More history than I can shake a stick at.

[titch66]

What was Durant doing at the end putting the watch on Lily's tent? I think he got the message that she wasn't interested. He probably felt particularly humiliated by her rejection because the Swede had him convinced that she was into him. She didn't lead him on, the only thing she did was with hold the maps at the beginning. If Durant has any heart he will forgive Lily and be grateful she turned them over to him.

She also motivated him to find a way to keep the railroad going. Maybe they can work together in some manner. I get the impression he does respect her and he would feel awful if anything happened to her. It was probably unheard of in those days for a man to work with a woman or to be platonic friends.

[Fisher King]

Little shout-out to the Irish brothers -- a shot of their lantern show sign in the mud.

It read 'Closed'. Hope that's not an indication they won't be returning, but I'm probably reading too much into it.

What was Durant doing at the end putting the watch on Lily's tent?

I'm not a fan of Durant but I felt a little bad for him in that scene. I don't know the history behind the watch. It looked like Lily's picture inside it.

[artsygal]

I'm honestly intrigued by this show. It's no Deadwood, but I'm willing to give it a chance. I watched all the eps in the marathon so I could get caught up. Now I love it!

The Swede in particular intrigues me. I had a great-grand-uncle in Andersonville. From what little I know of it, the place was an unholy nightmare -- truly. POW camps anywhere else in the world are at least humane; Andersonville was not even remotely on the same page. I'm not up on the entire history of the place, but -- my great-grand-uncle was there, captured during the Civil War. He actually barely survived long enough to get out and was part of a prisoner exchange, but died on the ship headed North due to severe dysentery. From what I know, dysentery was the number one cause of death because conditions there were so dreadful.

That's why the Swede gives me the willies -- the actor captures that cold, dark, blank stare of someone who would have survived those conditions by doing some pretty inhumane things himself. Does he remind anyone else of Lurch (Addams Family)? LOL

[smithgirl]

'm not a fan of Durant but I felt a little bad for him in that scene. I don't know the history behind the watch. It looked like Lily's picture inside it.

It was Robert's (her husband's) watch, recovered with his body. That's why Lily's picture was in it, Durant kept it without letting her know he had it while he was infatuated with her. So don't feel sorry for Durant, he was hiding a valuable keepsake from her. Of course, that watch hanging on a pole wouldn't last 30 seconds in that tent ghetto, but I imagine it will stay there for Lily to find.

[Fisher King]

Thanks for the watch clarification, smithgirl.
Guess Lily will have to make some hard decisions, like selling the watch to earn her way. Maybe she can become a magician and sell a line of fine clothing since she seems to produce hers out of thin air.

Agree with the poster that this is no Deadwood--by any means--but it's nice to have a western series on the air. Hopefully with the renewal the Gayton brothers will amp up the quality. There is much potential here.

[Dowel Jones]

The swede on his knees as Cullen whips him seemed rather far fetched to me

Don't forget that Swede had just been absolutely clobbered by the butt handle of Bohannen's revolver. That alone would put anyone down on the ground for a bit.

I was a little jarred by the man who carried her bags propositioning her

As was I; it seemed like it came from left field. The initial expression on her face when he said "six bits" was priceless, as though she didn't even get the slang term for 75 cents.

Andersonville was not even remotely on the same page.

And in fact, the camp commandant was hanged for war crimes afterward.

Edited by Dowel Jones, Jan 4, 2012 @ 12:40 AM.