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5-8: "Chuck Versus the Baby" 2011.12.30


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#1

mustbekarma

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:00 PM

This episode had me at Cheryl Ladd. It kept me when the baby wasn't Sarah's, just one she rescued. I loved this episode so much I wanted to have its babies.

I can't believe I was rooting for Peter to be killed. Tim DeKay plays a convincing villain. I loved how he was a formidable opponent and Sarah still owned him at the end.

Edited by mustbekarma, Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:02 PM.


#2

Guest012345

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:02 PM

Now that is how you do an episode. That was utterly fantastic from start to end. One of the best episodes the show has ever had.

#3

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:08 PM

Other than the super cheesy end, this was the best episode the show's had in a while. So glad they didn't go the Sarah's baby route, and it was genuinely cool enough where they went with it.

And the B plot was full of Awesome. The back and forth of Awesome/Alex and Ellie/Morgan conversations had me in stitches! Captain Awesome is still the greatest character of all time.

#4

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:15 PM

Very good episode. I have really liked the last two eps. The opening scene was great.

Liked Ellie/Awesome as the relationship guides but also their roleplaying these last few eps have been great. And I think YS is as hot as they come but really SL and Ellie the character seem to be getting hotter to me.

Tim Dekay was great as the villain. He seemed to know exactly how Sarah's mind work.

Glad they didn't even try to pretend that Sarah was the baby's mother.

Liked the little bit of backstory for Ellie/Awesome and also for Sarah.

Edited by ybrik, Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:18 PM.


#5

johntfs

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:17 PM

This was an episode that made me wonder a little bit about how much "cross-pollination" (since nepotism is probably a little strong) there is in Hollywood. I'm wondering if Matt Bomer met Josh or Chris for lunch somewhere and they mentioned this episode at which point Matt said something like, "You know, you should think about Tim. He's been wanting a good villain role for a little while now." Like that.

#6

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:18 PM

It's interesting that all of the really Sarah-centric episodes always end up being some of the strongest ones.

It was nice to finally fill in some of the gaps after all of these years.

One bit I found interesting was that it was a bit of a picture of how she's changed with some glimpses of how she hasn't: she's learned to rely on others, she has people, she has something beyond the spy life... (I sort of wanted her to be a spy again, but it makes sense why she wouldn't)... but when she needs to be, she can still be a killer. She's a pretty fascinating character.

#7

SmallNatural30

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:29 PM

Well, consider me pleasantly surprised that I'm not ready to brain bleach myself like I was kinda expecting going in - although the baby not being Sarah's was way too easy to guess/figure out going into it.

Somebody said it last week, but Sarah truly must be a female Wolverine. She can take a real good licking - for the second week in a row - and comes out looking like she stepped out of the makeup trailer, blemish free. And as an aside to that, I loved how when he had her tied up at the place of the mission from 5 years ago, they showed her head whipping to the side when Ryker hit her and there was blood on her shoulder... but there was absolutely none on her face, not even the tiniest of droplets or smearing. Must be that new blood-free makeup she uses.


Only real beef I have is some of the episode's writing; a staple of S5, unfortunately.

I'm talking about Chuck being a total and complete hypocrite by telling Sarah off - albeit in the nicest way possible - about her running after Ryker by herself. I was actually waiting for Sarah to deck him when he said that. Or at least give him a snarky "now you know how it feels" kinda slapdown.

Edited by SmallNatural30, Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:30 PM.


#8

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:36 PM

When they do these schmaltzy endings I keep thinking it is because at that the time they filmed it, they didn't know there would be more episodes. This show has spent its entire existence hanging by its fingernails and I'm always (happily) amazed that it has lasted this long. I will miss it because it is just fun, comic book stuff with lovable character.

I did not buy that Ryker wouldn't have been able to dig up intel on Sarah enough to know she was married - that was off to me given his background. Did he just assume that time stood still for her for these past 4 plus years? Not a big deal but it made me immediately thing Ryker was an idiot.

I will miss these folks....

#9

mizenkay

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:37 PM

Loved this episode despite the glaring gapingly huge plot hole of...if Tim DeKay was Sarah's handler five years ago, what was Bryce doing then? Remember him, writers? Guess he was going rogue by then.

But despite that it was a really strong showing, and the casting of Cheryl Ladd as Sarah's mom was genius. Wasn't too happy about Sarah getting the snot kicked out of her until the knife. Wut! Tim DeKay rocked the baddie role.

Fave hilarious bits were with Casey and Chuck and the Hungarian phrase book...curd cheesecake! And of course Ellie and Awesome with the role playing in Castle. Oh those two crazy kids! And boy, Ellie and Morgan sure have come a long way since the beginning. Thought that was a really sweet interaction between those two.

#10

SmallNatural30

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:42 PM

One bit I found interesting was that it was a bit of a picture of how she's changed with some glimpses of how she hasn't: she's learned to rely on others, she has people, she has something beyond the spy life... (I sort of wanted her to be a spy again, but it makes sense why she wouldn't)... but when she needs to be, she can still be a killer. She's a pretty fascinating character.

I agree with this, but want to take it in a slightly different direction, in regards to how Chuck reacted to her wanting to quit the CIA/spy life.

Are we to read his face & hesitation as something that he - for whatever reason - doesn't want to quit the CIA, at the present time, anyway? I know he was planning on the bonus for the house, but as he told Sarah, all they needed was each other and the house could wait. Usually its Chuck who brings up the possibility of getting out of the spy business, but he seemed to want to disagree with Sarah about not taking up Beckman on her offer of them rejoining the CIA; for more reasons than the money involved.

Or I could just be imagining things. If so, then nvm.

Loved this episode despite the glaring gapingly huge plot hole of...if Tim DeKay was Sarah's handler five years ago, what was Bryce doing then? Remember him, writers? Guess he was going rogue by then.

Very true, and also, wasn't Sarah a full-fledged agent by then - passed her Red Test and everything? WTF would she need a handler at that point?

#11

Guest012345

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 9:55 PM

I'm talking about Chuck being a total and complete hypocrite by telling Sarah off - albeit in the nicest way possible - about her running after Ryker by herself. I was actually waiting for Sarah to deck him when he said that. Or at least give him a snarky "now you know how it feels" kinda slapdown.

I can sort of agree with that but to be honest, I was just thrilled that they addressed it. Given the choice of ignoring the bad behavior from one of the two of them or acknowledging it at the risk of being a hypocrite, I'd gladly choose the latter every time.

Are we to read his face & hesitation as something that he - for whatever reason - doesn't want to quit the CIA, at the present time, anyway? I know he was planning on the bonus for the house, but as he told Sarah, all they needed was each other and the house could wait.

I interpreted the hesitation as being because of the house. I think Chuck was really excited about being able to give Sarah her dream home and was just sad that it would have to wait for a while longer.

Loved this episode despite the glaring gapingly huge plot hole of...if Tim DeKay was Sarah's handler five years ago, what was Bryce doing then? Remember him, writers? Guess he was going rogue by then.

Plus Sarah was sent to LA to investigate Chuck and see if he was working with Bryce. She wasn't sent there to be his handler.

Also, it looked like the device that Bryce used to steal and e-mail the Intersect to Chuck was on Graham's desk but Casey was still in possession of it at the DNI office building when Sarah was already in LA.

ETA: One other thing I thought I noticed was the home that Sarah's mom and Molly lived in. I need to make sure on a re-watch, but it looked fairly similar to the dream home that Sarah described in the Zoom. White house with a red door and a picket fence. It was a nice touch if the two homes were the same.

Edited by Guest012345, Dec 30, 2011 @ 10:41 PM.


#12

jediknight

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 10:05 PM

Dude, Peter, what the hell would Elizabeth say? Good job by Dekay in this episode. If the show had more episodes, I'd have liked to see Jones make an appearance.

Finally, Alex and Morgan are back together. It's about damn time.

#13

EverythingIsRen

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 10:59 PM

Loved this episode despite the glaring gapingly huge plot hole of...if Tim DeKay was Sarah's handler five years ago, what was Bryce doing then? Remember him, writers? Guess he was going rogue by then.


Yeah, plus Sarah didn't know that Chuck had the Intersect in his head when she met him, and thus didn't know she'd need to be his handler. And weren't she and Bryce both living and working in DC right before the series started? Seriously, they should've cut that scene instead of using it as another way to reinforce how "fated" Chuck and Sarah are. I like them together, but sometimes their stuff gets too cheesy. Watching it, I wondered if maybe the first draft of this episode involved Bryce in the flashbacks, but then Matt Bomer was too busy, so they rewrote it. Or maybe they just forgot about the guy.

I liked a lot of the episode, but I think Sarah's plot could have been a good multi-episode arc, and it's a shame that her stories outside of Chuck are always wrapped up in one episode. Ellie and Awesome, and Morgan and Alex were fun. I like that the latter two got back together, though I thought it was funny that it was somehow inspired by him being "so good" with Molly, when we didn't even see him interact with her one on one. Part of me wonders if Sarah and Chuck will somehow gain custody of Molly in the finale, but this seemed like a one-off story, so I don't know.

ETA: One other thing I thought I noticed was the home that Sarah's mom and Molly lived in. I need to make sure on a re-watch, but it looked fairly similar to the dream home that Sarah described in the Zoom. White house with a red door and a picket fence. It was a nice touch if the two homes were the same.


Maybe my memory is faulty, but I thought she specifically described it that way because she used to live in a house like that or knew someone who did. Correct me if I'm wrong. And I thought we were going to find out that Ryker's men were at the "dream home" instead of Sarah's mom's home. Because I swear that was the same house. They could have just been reusing sets to save money, though.

Edited by EverythingIsRen, Dec 31, 2011 @ 10:24 AM.


#14

mizenkay

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 11:09 PM

And weren't she and Bryce both living and working in DC right before the series started?


Yes. And vacationing in Cabo and taking sexy photos. And going on missions and perfecting their perfectly choreographed kung-fu moves. Sigh. I think they (the show) wanted to bring back Tony Todd for this episode and any logic involving the back story with Sarah and Bryce would've made that less, what, meaningful? But I don't want to think about it too hard, cause I really did love the episode and the more I think about it, the less I love it.

#15

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 11:18 PM

Also, it looked like the device that Bryce used to steal and e-mail the Intersect to Chuck was on Graham's desk but Casey was still in possession of it at the DNI office building when Sarah was already in LA.

I was wondering what that was . . .

#16

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 11:34 PM

I'm not sure the flashback detracts from Sarah and Bryce completely. She could still have been living in DC when she was in the US however, as a CIA op she would be on missions outside the US.

Also from the way Ryker was discussing Sarah, I don't think he was her handler for that long. It seemed like she had been in the agency for a little while and he wanted to be her handler for this specific mission. She also told Graham she wanted no more handlers, plural, like she had more then one. She had also been part of the Cat Squad. So my guess, she may have had multiple handlers that allowed her to work with other spies like the Cat Squad and Bryce.

However, the only problem I had is the broken device of Bryce's that Graham shouldn't have had till after Sarah was in Burbank.

#17

Dalmatian90

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 11:37 PM

When they do these schmaltzy endings I keep thinking it is because at that the time they filmed it, they didn't know there would be more episodes.


Good excuse for seasons 3-1/2 & 4-1/2 (and even 2), but not this time around -- we're at 8 out of a firm "13 and no more" run.

But I did agree -- the show could've have satisfactorily faded to black on this episode.

#18

SmallNatural30

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 1:57 AM

I have to admit, YS and CL really brought it in this episode. Not afraid to admit the teary farewell, when Sarah left the baby with her mom-... felt the heartstrings twang just a bit.

Little disappointed that we didn't ever even get a first name for Sarah's mom {did we?}, let alone her surname. Did she call Sarah, Sarah, or was it just general mom-used terms for their girls? I can't even remember. (As you can tell, the whole Fake Name and "Sam" business is still a bit of thorn in my side and I want some resolution. Even if Chuck isn't involved in any way, shape, or form.)


Best part of the episode, no BM shenanigans to ruin the flow of the stories going on.

Edited by SmallNatural30, Dec 31, 2011 @ 2:13 AM.


#19

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 2:24 AM

That was quite good. There were some sloppy (even for this show) plot holes, but I was mostly pleased. I might just be a sap for Sarah/YS (and getting her away from Zach and Adam for an episode shows how crazy tall she is), but d'awww. And in some ways the last scene was an appropriate end to the series. Curious to see what they're doing the next four weeks, as they already seem to be wrapping things up and there's no major arc even vaguely foreshadowed or resolution needed.

#20

Guest012345

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 7:46 AM

Maybe my memory is faulty, but I thought she specifically described it that way because she used to live in a house like that or knew someone who did. Correct me if I'm wrong. And I thought we were going to find out that Ryker's men were at the "dream home" instead of Sarah's mom's home. Because I swear that was the same house. They could have just been reusing sets to save money, though.

I wasn't sure either so I watched that part of Zoom again and this is how Sarah described her dream house:

Sarah: "Uh, well, when I was a little girl, my, uh, dad's "work" kept us moving around a lot and I always imagined what a real family would feel like. You know, what the perfect home for us all would be and, you know, the dream house. Well I always imagined a little white house with a red door and, don't laugh, but it had a picket fence just like, you know, the houses that you see on TV that people live in."

This is the one Chuck found. I wasn't able to get as clear a shot of her moms home but the red door and the picket fence were definitely there. Here's another shot of it from the flashback.

I like that the latter two got bak together, though I thought it was funny that it was somehow inspired by him being "so good" with Molly, when we didn't even see him interact with her one on one.

They actually did. When we first see that everyone is safe at Chuck and Sarah's apartment, Morgan is on the couch playing videogames with Molly and letting her win. Alex is in the background watching them.

Edited by Guest012345, Dec 31, 2011 @ 7:56 AM.


#21

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 8:24 AM

I'm not sure the flashback detracts from Sarah and Bryce completely. She could still have been living in DC when she was in the US however, as a CIA op she would be on missions outside the US.

Also from the way Ryker was discussing Sarah, I don't think he was her handler for that long. It seemed like she had been in the agency for a little while and he wanted to be her handler for this specific mission. She also told Graham she wanted no more handlers, plural, like she had more then one. She had also been part of the Cat Squad. So my guess, she may have had multiple handlers that allowed her to work with other spies like the Cat Squad and Bryce.

However, the only problem I had is the broken device of Bryce's that Graham shouldn't have had till after Sarah was in Burbank.


That and the complete disregard of the last scene of 'Nacho Sampler', where Sarah appears to see Chuck's photo for the first time on a phone, instead of in Graham's office.

#22

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 9:30 AM

Loved it for the most part. I don't think Ryder totally throws out the Bryce thing. Bryce was her partner. Ryder was a (somewhat temporary) handler. Two different things. Even seasoned spies still need handlers, don't they? Someone to direct missions and give orders?

Anyway, the thing that kept me wondering was Sarah's mom. Did she ever say why Sarah grew up with her dad? I mean, her mom seemed like a nice, responsible woman. Even if Sarah said she wanted to live with her dad (and from what we saw of her as a little girl, I could buy her wanting to be with him -- he was the "fun" one), she was pretty young in some of the flashbacks in earlier episodes. I'm not sure, from what I saw, if Sarah's mom would have just stepped back and allowed her con artist ex to raise their daughter. And for at least part of that time, Sarah was actually living with her grandmother when her dad couldn't take care of her. Why was she not with her mother? Until now, I'd assumed Sarah's mom must either be dead, have run off or have been really, really unfit. Not at all what they showed us. But, like I said, maybe I missed something?

#23

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 10:29 AM

Thanks for the pictures, Guest012345! So it's not the same house used for exterior shots, but the layout of the inside of the two houses definitely looked similar. And I somehow forgot about the Mario Kart game almost immediately after it happened. I think my annoyance by the last flashback caused me to forget a few things. Heh.

#24

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 11:11 AM

Okay not to harp on this incessantly, but there is such an easy writing fix for the Bryce plot hole...just set the story SIX or SEVEN years ago in Hungary and Tim DeKay is the rogue handler bent on betraying Sarah and the CIA, fine.

Then at the end of the episode - in the flashback - when Sarah says she doesn't want any more handlers, The Director agrees and says she's going to have a new partner:

Director (On speakerphone): Agent Larkin, we're ready for you.

CLOSE UP on Sarah Walker as she turns around to see Bryce Larkin and smiles slyly.

CUT

We never have to actually see Bryce (cause we know what he looks like and Matt Bomer costs money). So there, circle completed. The whole thing with Chuck's file etc...just made no sense given the history of the show.

Sorry but this REALLY bugged me and I think I am going to fanwank it my way. Thanks! :)

#25

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 11:32 AM

Maybe Sarah's mom didn't care when she was young, but regretted it after Sarah is all grown up? And by then Sarah is like "too little, too late"? It seemed kind of like Sarah was distant with her mother in the flashback, until they bonded over taking care of that kid. That's all I've got.

#26

charmante456

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 11:34 AM

Wouldn't the CIA have unfrozen the Carmichek Industry money by now? Since Decker was the one who froze it. It's not like he stole it, just froze the funds. I'd think they'd be released by now, and money for the house not so much an option.

Also, are they just deciding that no one's going to have the Intersect anymore? With only five episodes to go, it seems like we're setting everyone up to have a happy ever after, which is fine, but it's odd to abandon the central premise of the show without any full resolution. Weird.

#27

Guest012345

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 11:38 AM

What about this theory for Bryce. He and Sarah were partnered up just prior to the events in Hungary. When Bryce went rogue, Sarah, as Bryce's ex-partner, was assigned a handler until she was cleared of any wrong doing. We then see the flashback from the mission with the baby and we know the rest of the story.

That could also explain why Sarah was listening to the message from her mom at the beginning of the episode. She was still feeling the effects of Bryce's betrayal and needed to hear her mom's voice/was considering taking her up on the offer to come home. That would also explain why Sarah seemed defensive when she was talking to Graham on the phone,

Graham: "Look, I know what Ryker made you do. I know everything."
Sarah: "I was just obeying orders."
Graham: "There is no need to worry about that now."

She might have been talking about having to kill all the men though. She seemed hesitant to do it until she learned that they had killed the couple that lived there which probably goes back to her red test.

Anyways, it is just a thought. I'm not too devastated by the plot hole since I've come to expect them whenever the writers have flashbacks.

Edited by Guest012345, Dec 31, 2011 @ 11:48 AM.


#28

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 11:42 AM

I liked this episode but what pissed me off was the villain has Sara on the ropes....and he turns around. And then he gets stabbed and dies. Great cop out way to have the good guy win. I can't stand when shows and movies pull that shit.

#29

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 1:05 PM

Little disappointed that we didn't ever even get a first name for Sarah's mom {did we?}, let alone her surname. Did she call Sarah, Sarah, or was it just general mom-used terms for their girls? I can't even remember. (As you can tell, the whole Fake Name and "Sam" business is still a bit of thorn in my side and I want some resolution. Even if Chuck isn't involved in any way, shape, or form.)

Yeah, that bugs me too. OK so maybe Sarah's mom knew all about her spy life and her new identity as "Sarah Walker" but I'm not sure I buy her introducing Molly to her as "Sarah." They also established back in season 1 that Sarah had gone by many different aliases over the course of her job - I don't know why "Sarah" has been the one to stick.

The other thing that bugged me was the whole business with buying the house: the reason they weren't able to afford it was because Decker had all their assets frozen. Well, Decker is dead now and Shaw has been exposed as being behind the whole thing. Wouldn't their assets have been unfrozen by now? They should have those Volkoff millions at their disposal again.

The part I loved best was Ellie and Awesome playing interrogation. "Oy! My British accent!"

#30

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 1:15 PM

The part I loved best was Ellie and Awesome playing interrogation. "Oy! My British accent!"


Yes -- Ellie and Awesome make for *much* better comedic sidekicks, cast-wise, than Jeff and Lester ever did.