171 replies to this topic

[crashdown]

I'm not sure what the protocol is for starting a new thread, and I assume I'll be around slapped down if I'm not following it. But it seems that a place to discuss this particular relationship, separate from the individual character threads, might be appropriate. I started out not being much interested in Kalinda at all, and then became gradually fascinated by the ways in which Alicia and Kalinda were drawn to each other. To me, the most interesting thing of all is that I see it as an essentially intellectual relationship rather than some sort of physical attraction--the basis of their deep friendship (now sadly on hiatus) is the fact that two brilliant minds inside of two people who have almost nothing in common could hook together and produce great work. That's just not a common way for female friendships to be portrayed on television, and it's something that I really find appealing.

I also want to begin this thread with a couple of quotations that might shape a discussion. First, here are some from Jacob's "Good Timing" uber-recap, because I think Jacob understands the Kalinda/Alicia dynamic better than anyone else I've read:

For different reasons, they were holding onto each other so tightly they couldn't even admit it to themselves, and when it fell apart, so did they.

and

Blake finally figured out that Lela slept with Peter years ago, for helping her create the Kalinda identity. That was it: Slept with a guy, fell into a profoundly loving relationship with his good wife, years later. Hated herself too much to come clean.

From Jacob's recap of the last episode:

Alicia has no friends. She had them back home, but they're all boring or weird or stuck back there, where she used to be. She can't make friends now because she's got no peers: She's married but unmarried, she's a lawyer and a mother, she's a softy and a hardass. The only people who understand her, her only peers, are people just as complicated as she is, and those are the ones she hates the most. . . . Alicia had a friend once. Who told the truth, unadorned; a friend who lied. She was lonely before, and she is lonely now.

and

Alicia: "You found my daughter."
Kalinda: "She was... Lost."
Alicia: "You brought her home."
Kalinda: "She would've come home on her own..."
Alicia: "You told my kids not to tell me. Why."
Kalinda, nervous: "I don't want a mess..."
Alicia: "What mess."

This mess. Here. I have never done anything that didn't have an agenda attached. Even if I have no agenda, there's an agenda attached. If I brought your daughter to you: Agenda, to make you love me again. Kiss Cary: Agenda, to keep the lines open. The mystique of being Kalinda is that I can't ever do anything kind.

Kalinda: "Alicia, I haven't changed. I'm the same person. I knew I could help, so I helped."
Alicia: "Thank you."
Kalinda: "You don't have to..."
Alicia: "This isn't that conversation. I know your tricks. This isn't getting any wider in scope than the current situation. I am not forgiving you by thanking you. I am not not forgiving you, sitting in this car, because forgiveness and our history are beyond the scope of this conversation. I am thanking you for a good deed, which I have repaid. Not because I love you, but because I don't want to owe you. This is the opposite of a favor."
ibid., verbatim: "-- No. You didn't have to. That's why I'm thanking you."

Kalinda: "Yeah, well, let's not forget that I've never done anything to hurt you, and the fact that I technically don't have a leg to stand on doesn't mean I'm not in pain too. You vanished. The thing that you're constantly threatening to do, the one power you actually wield, and you did it to me. I'm guilty, I get it, but I was very lonely before I met you. And now I'm lonely again. And you seem to be doing just fucking fine."
ibid., verbatim: "You're welcome."

And finally, a bit from an interesting article in TV Guide:

Now the question is will Alicia and Kalinda simply remain on good terms — but nothing more — or will they be able to truly put the pieces of their friendship back together? "There is a protective quality Kalinda has towards Alicia even when their friendship is at its lowest ebb and almost doesn't exist," executive producer and co-creator Robert King told TVGuide.com last week. "The difficulties will be for Alicia to see if she can pull herself out of this kind of anger and frustration with Kalinda and what way a friendship might reconfigure itself."

It may be a tall order to ask Alicia to forgive Kalinda for sleeping with her husband, but now that everything is out in the open, is it possible that their worst days are behind them? "Just like with any relationship, after there is a break, people get together," executive producer and co-creator Michelle King said. "There can't be the very same relationship there was before, but hopefully it can be stronger."

(As an interesting aside, the Kings admit in this article that Season 3 has sort of sucked so far because of the tensions caused by Alicia's fractured relationships. It gives me a little hope that, if they can recognize that, the second half of the season might be more satisfying.)

Anyway, have at it!

[stealinghome]

I don't have anything intelligent to add, other than LOVE. LOVE. LOVE. To my mind, Alicia-Kalinda is the true OTP (platonic, obviously) of this show. If they actually start knitting these two back together in the second half of S3, I'd be willing to overlook almost all the season's other flaws!

[crashdown]

Me, too, and I really hope that the writers can pull it off. If all of this has been in service to a deeper/better/stronger friendship, I'll be delighted. If it hasn't been, if they screw it up, I'm going to be very, very, VERY disappointed. But I'm assuming (from textual evidence and from what the Kings have said in interviews) that they're going to go the stronger-friendship route. The question is, will what they do feel believable and right? How do those of you interested in the question think the narrative arc will go?

[Deco]

I very much approve of this thread.

I think what will be bring them back together will be the realization and the admitting that they are better together than they are apart. The rift has forced two very reticent people to acknowledge how important the other is, so at least that came out it.

They seem, on the surface, to be very different - but I think the similarities are more interesting. They both don't like the complications or the "mess", neither appreciate BS, they're not overly demonstrative, they both tend to live in their heads, they both tend to retreat or internalize when hurt (or at least Kalinda does with Alicia), but they are both fiercely loyal to those few they let in.

Where the balance comes in is that Alicia gives Kalinda a solid foundation (or did) for someone who seems to live on the fly, with no commitments, no plans (that we know of), doing what she wants when she wants to. And Kalinda gives Alicia a nudge out of her comfort zone, her preconceived notions and conformity.

I hope the reconciliation continues to move forward, because as many of us have said, the SHOW is better when they're together too! It's just a joy to see this dynamic and see them play off one another and I miss that so damned much.

[TWoP Gadget]

I'm OK with it as long as the thread stays focused on the relationship between them (and not necessarily one character or another).

[crashdown]

Wow, Deco--I couldn't agree more with everything that you've said. I've also been struck by their interesting similarities, which have a lot more resonance with me than their obvious differences. The fact that neither one is demonstrative and that both are internal, but that they fell into a relationship that was deep and meaningful without really being able to talk about how deep and meaningful it was (or maybe even fully acknowledging it before it was gone) is what makes the rift so tragically moving to me. And I'll add to your excellent list of similarities the fact that both of them are capable of real, sustained anger: Alicia might not whack cars with baseball bats, but she is capable of whacking just as hard with her incredible verbal lashings when aroused. These traits don't make for the typical female friendship in the Sex-and-the-City trope. It's really something quite different.

I just wonder how I would pull off the narrative, if I were a writer breaking the story. It's going to require a conversation between the two of them, and that conversation is going to have to happen in a plausible manner, in a private place. But it would also be good to have some sort of third party to nudge the conversation along in some way, as a catalyst, as a stand-in for what viewers would want to say, or whatever. It's hard to pull all of that off elegantly. I remember a similar situation in "Felicity," when Felicity (the main character) more or less stole the boyfriend of her best friend and was caught at it. We had the same sort of deal that we have here, with characters who used to be inseparable not talking to each other, etc. (It wasn't as painful to sit through, since the best friend in this case was not particularly compelling, and the relationship didn't feel as deep as the Alicia/Kalinda relationship.) The show broke the rift by trapping the two of them on a broken-down New York subway for nine hours, with eventually the entire car of people joining in and analyzing their relationship. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it actually worked well, and it was a great episode. But I can't imagine anything similar on "Good Wife" that wouldn't seem really contrived.

They've set up a possible return to the good work groove that has been lost since the end of last season, which will be a welcome relief. (This show has indeed suffered by the fact that the two of them have barely said a word to each other all season--even a hostile word is better than nothing at all!) I guess what I'd like to see is Kalinda having to go to Alicia's apartment to work on some case, paralleling the wonderful "Nine Hours" episode. Then they'd pull off some brilliant piece of work that saves someone's life or loved ones, and at the end of that Alicia could just hand Kalinda a beer without a word. (But of course, I'd *want* words after that, not just a cop-out cut to credits!)

[Ohmo]

I love the friendship between Kalinda and Alicia because I find it to be a true friendship between two woman who are strong in atypical ways. I'm firmly on the "the Alicia-Kalinda dynamic is central to TGW" bandwagon, and I hope the Kings continue the journey toward reconciliation.

[crashdown]

I'm a little bored at work today (call it pre-Christmas inertia), so I'm reading the old Good Wife thread. I came across this bit from Black Knight posted back in May, right after the Season 2 confrontation-with-Kalinda episode:

I don't think she's closed the door. However hurt she is, she's continuing to make her decisions with Alicia's welfare in mind. But, she knows Alicia is very much the type who not only wants but needs time and space, not to feel pressured, and to feel like she is the one in control of the situation, before she can think about forgiving somebody who has hurt her deeply. Kalinda tried to leave the firm because Alicia told her she didn't want to see her, talk to her, work with her. Now she's back because she realized the other option would be even more painful to Alicia...so she's remaining in Alicia's sphere, and the thing is, I think that when she's around Alicia she just plain can't help herself. She may shut down her own heart, but she'll continue to look after Alicia at LG like she always has, even if she has to do it on the down-low.

And, that pretty much is the way to reach Alicia. It's how Peter got back into Alicia's good graces eventually - it wasn't really anything he said or any direct approaches he made to her, it was when he went out and did "good husband/father" type stuff that she actually heard about from other people. In Kalinda's capacity as head investigator, she will have opportunities to help Alicia at work and she will take those opportunities because she's just not going to stand by and watch Alicia's cases go down in flames or have her be backstabbed by coworkers or whatever when she can do something. Even if she does it secretly, somebody like Will will inevitably know and mention it to Alicia at some point. And to Alicia, who has told Kalinda their friendship is at an end, who has made it clear to Kalinda how much she despises the concept of being helped out of a sense of guilt or pity, that will have an impact. Much like with Peter, there will be a gradual thawing. But it really is about that indirect approach, where Alicia can really feel like Kalinda helped for no other reason than that's because that's what she does, she helps Alicia because she likes her. Not out of guilt or pity or to manipulate her way back into a friendship. Alicia would inherently distrust any direct overtures Kalinda makes.

Someone is getting a gold star for prescience! :-)

[Deco]

I just wonder how I would pull off the narrative, if I were a writer breaking the story. It's going to require a conversation between the two of them, and that conversation is going to have to happen in a plausible manner, in a private place.

I really don't know how much of a conversation we can expect, though. I mean, I would want it as a viewer, sure - process away! But those two use fewer words the more important things are. I really expect we'll get just a beer handed over or a shot glass shoved towards the other and a look. Mostly non-verbal (but they are so good at that).

The most I think may happen is Alicia asking "Is there anything else I need to know?" before going all in again on the friendship. With a short, "just the facts ma'am" convo to follow.

I had been hoping that more of Kalinda's past would come up, that would "force" Alicia to help Kalinda out of some jam (Maybe we will still see it...). It would give it that enforced interaction that crashdown was talking about, but the added satisfaction of revealing more of the Sphinx in Boots, too. The ball is still in Alicia's court and she has to make moves towards Kalinda now, IMOYH. That would be a good reason, something big enough that Alicia can't stall dealing with her, and intriguing enough to lure her into involvement.

(And that Felicity set up actually sounds pretty interesting, especially the other commuters chiming in...)

[crashdown]

I know what you mean, Deco--Alicia and Kalinda are the type who mock Eat, Pray, Love bonding and sharing, not the type who engage in it themselves. That's a big part of what makes them so compelling to me. I can't help but want a conversation, though, as my payoff for sticking with the show through 10 very bleak episodes in which all my favorite interactions and relationships were taken away, and an eleventh with only a scrap of hope for things to come. I think it's very possible that more of Kalinda's past will emerge, and that will be the thing that reboots the friendship. It makes sense as a dynamic: first they work together at L/G more comfortably, then something from Kalinda's past comes up that Alicia accidentally finds out about and is drawn into helping, which would sort of act as a bridge between work-life and personal-life interaction (that is, it would be legal but not L/G). And then, finally, a rekindling of a personal relationship. That would work fine for me, but I still think a conversation in there somewhere would make everything more satisfying. I'm not talking a thirtysomething level of conversation, but SOMETHING!

And yes, the Felicity setup did work great--quirky, but it felt believable, and it did the job. If anyone hasn't seen Felicity, I highly recommend it. Best college story ever, created by J. J. Abrams before he did Alias and Lost. It streams from Netflix.

[Deco]

I can't help but want a conversation, though, as my payoff for sticking with the show through 10 very bleak episodes in which all my favorite interactions and relationships were taken away, and an eleventh with only a scrap of hope for things to come.

crashdown - I can't help but think about how the Will/Alicia fans expected some kind of actual conversation between them after the affair started, too, and they didn't really get one (I'm not counting the "Am I too hard on you?" chat. heh). We were left to draw conclusions from the negative spaces in that relationship, if you will, and that seems to be the writers preferred style. They're minimalists and want you to read between the lines...So, all that to say, I just don't know what they'll give us with words with Alicia and Kalinda, but I hope I'm wrong.

And yes, it's been a rough season so far for those of us who value Alicia and Kalinda interaction. If the Kings themselves regard the two as the "heart of the show", then they've left the show's chest cavity with a gaping hole in it. A risky move to leave it like that so far into the season...

[crashdown]

Willicia fans at least got a very racy sex scene, the likes of which I've rarely seen on network TV. I want a platonic equivalent! :-)

And yes, it's been a rough season so far for those of us who value Alicia and Kalinda interaction. If the Kings themselves regard the two as the "heart of the show", then they've left the show's chest cavity with a gaping hole in it. A risky move to leave it like that so far into the season...

ITA. Some people have applauded the show for having the guts to mess around with a formula that seemed to be working--Entertainment Weekly, which listed Good Wife as one of its top ten shows for 2011, thought that what we've seen this year has been a "growing season" that adds up to a "more vivid, realistic life for the show." As far as Kalicia goes, it might indeed be vivid and realistic, but it's a tremendous bummer and a real loss of chemistry and possibility. I'm sure (I hope!) the Kings will put us out of our misery soon, but it's been a long, rocky road so far.

My inner spidey sense of pace tells me that we have four more episodes to wait for the big reconciliation. I project that we'll have nothing much about Kalinda and Alicia in the next episode beyond some harmonious working together, then something direct in episode 13, then another episode focused on other things, and then . . . the big one as the end of act two of the season. (I believe there will be four episodes in a row without a break, so something like that makes sense to me.) If they drag this out until the end of the season, I'm going to be a VERY irritable viewer!

[Deco]

Always trust the spidey sense! I hope your timeline turns out to be accurate... Meanwhile, we have weeks to stew...

[crashdown]

Well, a week and a few days, to be precise--new episodes start January 8. On reflection, my spidey sense might have been overly optimistic. We've basically finished Act I of the season, but it's been a long, tedious first act. I believe that the Alicia/Kalinda reconciliation should come at the end of Act II rather than Act III: it's definitely important enough to warrant an end-of-act wrapup. So probably we're looking at six episodes, not four. *Sigh*. Can't come soon enough for me, much as I understand the structural need for the thing!

[crashdown]

A couple of interesting tweets from Emily Nussbaum (the new TV critic at The New Yorker, replacing the brilliant Nancy Franklin) on "Bitcoin for Dummies":

*****
emilynussbaum
Also, I'm both compelled & baffled by the Will/Wendy/DA shenanigans -- I have no idea what they're all up to.

******
emilynussbaum emilynussbaum
But I assume it will always come back to the essential romance of the show: Kalinda's hidden almost Medieval chivalric love for Alicia.
******

I love that last tweet: Kalinda's love for Alicia *is* almost medieval and chivalric. Well observed!

[Deco]

Thanks for sharing those tweets, crashdown! "Medieval chivalric love for Alicia" - ha, that's perfect. What an excellent way to put it. She does seem to regard Alicia in a somewhat "elevated" way. As someone not yet tainted, someone with a kind of innocence that might befuddle her and that Kalinda probably thought extinct (or would normally just dismiss as naive). That Alicia possesses something worth protecting. Something in Alicia that got pretty squashed in Kalinda (for reasons yet unknown).

I'm extremely bummed I ended up missing "Bitcoin", since it was such a pivotal episode, apparently, for these two. My luck.

[crashdown]

Nice to have you back, Deco--I've missed your posts. I really think Emily Nussbaum (and by the way, I didn't mean to imply that she *isn't* brilliant by saying that Nancy Franklin *is*--Emily Nussbaum is probably the only person I can even countenance replacing Nancy Franklin at The New Yorker) nailed Kalinda's feelings for Alicia (as well as the fact that the relationship is the essential romance of the show) in the 140-character tweet limitation. I'm impressed! It's funny--I always thought that I wouldn't be satisfied with the resolution of the Alicia/Kalinda angst unless Alicia somehow indicated a basic understanding of how Kalinda feels about her, which she's never really gotten. But maybe it's better that she *not* realize the depth of Kalinda's feelings: that sort of thing might be hard to handle in an actual relationship, although it's extremely appealing looking at it from the outside as observers of two fascinating characters.

stealinghome wrote the following on the spoilers thread (it doesn't contain a spoiler in and of itself):

I will agree, though, that the show hasn't really shown too much of Alicia missing Kalinda. K pining for Alicia, sure. the other way around? Not so much.

Totally true. To get there, you have to believe (as I do) that Alicia's most interesting feelings are subconscious ones that she's not even fully aware of--it's been well established that she's a basically repressive person. I think we certainly have evidence that Alicia consciously misses having friends, and her lambasting of Cary over playing games with Kalinda's arrest indicates (to me) her depth of feeling toward Kalinda coming suddenly to the fore. I'm able to put these things together and come up with the fact that she misses what she had with Kalinda, but it's certainly not on the surface, and it might in fact be nothing more than wishful fanwanking.

[Deco]

Thanks, crashdown. My free time is spotty these days, but it's always nice to return to a site that discusses my favorite shows intelligently and beyond simple "ZOMG!" thrashing (Not that there's anything wrong with that...).

But maybe it's better that she *not* realize the depth of Kalinda's feelings: that sort of thing might be hard to handle in an actual relationship

Well. It would certainly be hard for Kalinda handling Alicia knowing! lol But I suspect we will still get to see an indication of that, and more importantly I'm holding out that Alicia will see it too. I can't get it out of my head (partly from the King's saying that the season is about those two and the importance of their relationship) that in the end Kalinda will make some noble gesture as the sh!t piles on and throw herself under the bus in a last ditch effort to divert/subvert the investigation or stop WSC in some way... I don't have much proof of this expectation. Just seems like there's a build up to a really big move on Kalinda's part to totally redeem herself in Alicia's eyes (not that that will be her primary motive at all).

And it may be fanwanking to see Alicia bemoaning to Owen that she doesn't have friends and her chewing out Cary about Kalinda being arrested, as evidence of Alicia's missing/caring for Kalinda, but it's accurate fanwanking in my book. lol I would also add all the surrogate bar scenes Alicia has had to the mix, too (with Diane, Celeste and even Will). The bait-n-switch coyness in both text and camera work, making the audience wonder who was meeting Alicia in the bar I think was an sign that the runners knowingly are evoking the old Kalinda/Alicia tequila time. I think the Kings want us to draw these conclusions without spelling it out for us. The Kings even used the term "surrogacy" in a recent AfterEllen interview in regards to Alicia and Kalinda's other involvements this season.

I will agree, though, that the show hasn't really shown too much of Alicia missing Kalinda. K pining for Alicia, sure. the other way around? Not so much.

In regards to stealinghome's quote, I think having a new shiny (boy) toy in Will (sorry, Will) has certainly made it easier for Alicia to distract herself from the loss of Kalinda's friendship. It wasn't a coincidence that Alicia had that friend-less talk after she ended things with Will. Distraction gone. Person sized hole noticed again.

And of course I agree that Alicia is so internalized, she always makes it hard to know what the hell is going on with her (as Will has discovered during their affair). She's certainly a more socially pleasant sphinx than Kalinda to be around, but ultimately her shields are just as far up in most situations. Question is, was she like that pre-Peter scandal or not? I suspect yes, but it's been intensified since.

Edited by Deco, Jan 18, 2012 @ 4:16 PM.

[Nanrad]

I think Alicia's relationship with Will was about asserting control over her own life and doing what she wanted to do. I wouldn't necessarily say Alicia pursued a "relationship" with him to distract her concerning Kalinda. It was always something that she wanted, but she held back because misunderstandings, bad timing, etc. Did Kalinda have some sort of an influence? Definitely. But, I think the Will/Alicia thing goes deeper than what Peter/Kalinda did.

I think what will be bring them back together will be the realization and the admitting that they are better together than they are apart. The rift has forced two very reticent people to acknowledge how important the other is, so at least that came out it.

It has to be more than them realizing they are better together. The lines of communication has to be open and clear. They can't go back to what they used to have--it would be regressing for them. Kalinda doesn't have to tell her life story, but she needs to earn the trust that she lost. Finding Grace was nice and "selling out" Will showed her loyalty, but that still is not a substitution for actually talking to Alicia. Alicia needs to actively deal with her anger towards Kalinda. Talk to Owen, be honest with herself, etc. Their relationship won't get better until they let themselves be vulnerable in some form around each other.

[Deco]

I wouldn't necessarily say Alicia pursued a "relationship" with him to distract her concerning Kalinda.

Oh, no, nanrad, I wasn't saying that, either. I don't think for a moment that Alicia (finally) allowed herself the relationship with Will to help get over the loss of Kalinda's friendship. I'm just saying that having this new, exciting relationship was a sudden, big, enjoyable focus for Alicia and one of the side effects of that is filling the time she normally would've had with Kalinda so she didn't really have to notice the loss at the time. She was focused on the gain of Will.

They can't go back to what they used to have--it would be regressing for them. Kalinda doesn't have to tell her life story, but she needs to earn the trust that she lost.

I agree on that. They do seem to be slightly just slipping back into that compatible working relationship with nothing more said than "thank you" and "you're welcome" (re: finding the not-lost-Grace). That's why I'm still hoping that some event to come down the pike will force their (emotional) hand further and shake this wary truce up and make them work more for it. (I'm still really jonesing for more of Kalinda's past to come up within that scenario...)

Edited by Deco, Jan 19, 2012 @ 4:00 PM.

[Nanrad]

Deco, I don't know how I want their relationship to be when they do make amends, but it won't be the usual "girl talk". But, Kalinda emotionally invested herself in a person while simultaneously keeping herself guarded. It's always been about surviving and protecting herself and fixing. Thing is: she can never relax or let her guard down. I think they both of them need to learn effective communication skills for their personal life. And to stop throwing aside emotions they don't want to feel.

Edited by Nanrad, Jan 19, 2012 @ 5:10 PM.

[crashdown]

I can't get it out of my head (partly from the King's saying that the season is about those two and the importance of their relationship) that in the end Kalinda will make some noble gesture as the sh!t piles on and throw herself under the bus in a last ditch effort to divert/subvert the investigation or stop WSC in some way... I don't have much proof of this expectation. Just seems like there's a build up to a really big move on Kalinda's part to totally redeem herself in Alicia's eyes (not that that will be her primary motive at all).

I know what you mean--I feel something like that too, without much evidence for it. (I almost hate to write about it, because it's something that I'd really like to see, and it appears that Robert King trolls through Internet forums, trying to find what fans expect in order to subvert those expectations. Note to Robert: I don't *expect* it, I'd *like* it. :-) )

I think there's good evidence to suggest that we're shifting into a big Kalinda-heavy arc, both because she's too popular a character to keep marginalized for long and because the narrative seems to demand it.

I would also add all the surrogate bar scenes Alicia has had to the mix, too (with Diane, Celeste and even Will). The bait-n-switch coyness in both text and camera work, making the audience wonder who was meeting Alicia in the bar I think was an sign that the runners knowingly are evoking the old Kalinda/Alicia tequila time. I think the Kings want us to draw these conclusions without spelling it out for us. The Kings even used the term "surrogacy" in a recent AfterEllen interview in regards to Alicia and Kalinda's other involvements this season.

I completely agree. The writers have been teasing us with bar scenes all season. There was no reason for that bar scene with Diane at the conclusion of "What Went Wrong" *except* to tease us, because for the first time all season there was the small, irrational hope that it would be Kalinda whom the camera would reveal. I'm sure we'll never see Alicia drinking with Diane again, and the Diane-as-mentor point had already been made.

I think the Kings have taken a really big chance on this season, and I have to respect them for it, even if I haven't *enjoyed* this season as much as I have seasons 1 and 2. Their interviews have indicated that the whole season should be looked at the through the lens of what's happened to Alicia and Kalinda's relationship. Because they've been estranged, the whole first half of the season has been largely flat and off: the great chemistry we've enjoyed hasn't been there, and everything without that has indeed felt like a surrogacy. But rather than criticize the Kings for doing that, I think I admire them for having the guts to show it. But I'm *only* going to continue to feel that way if we're moving toward a really big emotional payoff, which is going to feel all the more powerful *because* of the flatness of the first half of the season. I see the season as one of moving chess pieces into place (both the emotional ones of a big Alicia/Kalinda breakthrough and the factual ones of the case against Will and--maybe--Peter). The writers have been very, very patient, much more patient than writers of character-based dramas usually are. If the payoff is fantastic, I'll ultimately be grateful that they played it this way. If it isn't, I'm going to be mightily annoyed.

(Remember the episode with Owen's boyfriend Finn early in the season? Finn was yammering on that "delaying gratification increases gratification." I actually think that he was the voice of the writers at that moment, and that the whole season has been one of delaying gratification to increase gratification.)

They do seem to be slightly just slipping back into that compatible working relationship with nothing more said than "thank you" and "you're welcome" (re: finding the not-lost-Grace). That's why I'm still hoping that some event to come down the pike will force their (emotional) hand further and shake this wary truce up and make them work more for it. (I'm still really jonesing for more of Kalinda's past to come up within that scenario...)

Me, too. (Note to Robert: cover your ears!) I'd certainly feel as though I'd been emotionally manipulated for no good reason at all if the two of them just slipped back into a friendship with no more emotion or heat--this whole, miserable, Kalicia-less year would seem to have been a complete waste of time. I *want* them to work for it, and I want them to be more self-aware of what their friendship is and means. From everything I've read from the Kings, that's the way they're seeing it--they've said things like "it can't be exactly the same relationship, but hopefully it can be stronger." That's not going to happen without a jolt or two, and I also hope that Kalinda's past is one of the jolts. (I kind of feel that we'll be getting two jolts, one coming in the next couple of episodes, and something else closer to May. If the Kings see the whole season as being in some sense about Alicia and Kalinda, then it makes structural sense to have the phases of their relationship correspond to the ends of each act of the season).

Edited by crashdown, Jan 19, 2012 @ 6:06 PM.

[Deco]

(Remember the episode with Owen's boyfriend Finn early in the season? Finn was yammering on that "delaying gratification increases gratification." I actually think that he was the voice of the writers at that moment, and that the whole season has been one of delaying gratification to increase gratification.)

Oh, right. I forgot about that. That could turn out to be a funny meta moment there... Then we can't say they didn't warn us! Tho' I've felt as skeptical as Owen did at times... (Prove me wrong, Kings. Pretty please.)

[crashdown]

Oh, right. I forgot about that. That could turn out to be a funny meta moment there... Then we can't say they didn't warn us! Tho' I've felt as skeptical as Owen did at times... (Prove me wrong, Kings. Pretty please.)

There was a famous study in the sociology of religion once, in which a sociologist lived with a bunch of millennialists who believed that the world was going to end at such-and-such time. The point of the study was to watch what happened when the world *didn't* end, to see how they tried to retofit everything back into their world view. (I always thought that it would have been hilarious if the world DID end then, but I have a dark mind and a healthy skepticism of academics!) I'm such an apologist for the Kings that I often feel like those millennialists. I hope I have a good way to reconstruct my world view if this season ends up being a big disappointment!

[angelita100]

I still don't buy this all encompassing relationship. It doesn't hurt my enjoyment of the show or anything but I just go with it because they say so. Whatever. But how much longer will Kalinda prostrate herself for Alicia's friendship. It's kind of pathetic that these two people are supposed to be so important to each other. Time will tell if Kalinda sold Will down the river but I don't think she did. I don't even believe the threat was that serious. Disbarred for what? They have no proof of anything. I really hope the payoff for this will be as satisfying as last year's L&G shenanigans. That story was also a big mess until the end. I'm hoping they can repeat themselves with hugely satisfactory ending for all of this.

[crashdown]

I still don't buy this all encompassing relationship. It doesn't hurt my enjoyment of the show or anything but I just go with it because they say so. Whatever. But how much longer will Kalinda prostrate herself for Alicia's friendship. It's kind of pathetic that these two people are supposed to be so important to each other.

I think the Kalicia thing is like what Peter told Celeste re kids: you'd get it if you got it. I completely understand why people don't view Alicia and Kalinda as an essential romance of the show (whether a friendship romance or something else), but once you see it that way, you can't *not* see it.

And so, the thaw continues, albeit more slowly than I'd like. (The imperative of getting Kalinda and Alicia back together again makes me lose all shreds of narrative dignity!) At first, I was a little disappointed that we didn't see even more movement back toward the friendship (I had built it up in my head that, since the first Ham Sandwich was the last bar scene between the two of them, we might actually see another one after Alicia stormed out of the Grand Jury), but on reflection this morning, I'm satisfied with how things are going. I especially like the fact that it seems to me that Alicia dialed back some of her feelings toward Kalinda when she was thanking her: that hesitation was her trying to make things a notch cooler than she was actually feeling, very different from anything we've seen from her all season. And she actually used Kalinda's name here--she's been avoiding doing that, too. It's all going to be good.

[Luluzinha]

I especially like the fact that it seems to me that Alicia dialed back some of her feelings toward Kalinda when she was thanking her: that hesitation was her trying to make things a notch cooler than she was actually feeling, very different from anything we've seen from her all season.

I also think that Alicia is letting go of her anger... not just towards Kalinda, but in general. Taking it slow makes sense, but hopefully they'll get to be friends again soon. I miss them.

[crashdown]

I don't read a lot of fan fic, but I had to share this brilliant story that I just stumbled across--I guess it was published back in November. It's quirky--the setting is a post-apocalyptic Chicago where zombies are attempting to devour everyone left alive--but it's also highly imaginative, and a terrific portrayal of the Alicia/Kalinda dynamic. If you can stand zombies, it's a good way to help pass the time until the next new episode.

[CleoCaesar]

I'm sure it's going to be a good bit more than that--the "tax problems" clearly are going to get to the heart of the Leela-to-Kalinda transformation, and (if we're lucky) actually touch on Peter's role in the whole event. But I certainly take your point: I wouldn't go as far to call the season "mediocre" (or if I did, I'll take mediocre Good Wife over practically anything else out there), but it's been a frustrating ride. Part of the problem has been its asymmetrical narrative structure: we had an eleven-episode Act I (that took us to "What Went Wrong," which pretty much showed us how screwed up Alicia's life had become, how Alicia had effectively managed to alienate herself from everyone--except Owen--who cared about her, and set up the scene for Will's grand jury investigation) and a four-episode Act II, in which the grand jury thing happens, Will leaves the firm for his suspension, and Alicia is finally forced to deal with Kalinda whether she wants to or not. That leaves us eight episodes for an Act III that has the potential to be dramatic and great, and in which (I hope) Alicia will fix up the relationships that were so messed up in Act I (certainly with Kalinda, but I hope she'll also find a way into a warmer, less awkward friendship with Will as well). And if we're really lucky, she'll actually smile, act like a nice person again, laugh, stop dressing like a Puritan, and get rid of the bangs!

But here's the thing, since I try to look at all this from a writer's point of view: it's a very, very difficult task to take what some (like Jacob in his recaplet, like the New Yorker TV critic Emily Nussbaum) have deemed the essential romance of the show (the Alicia/Kalinda friendship), blow it all to bits, and then bring it back together so that it actually ends up stronger, better, and deeper. I still don't know whether they're actually going to pull it off, but the *attempt* is very bold. Alicia and Kalinda's Phase 1 relationship was light, innocent, and pleasing to all of us who noticed them at all: it was great to watch them having drinks and teasing each other, and I feel sad and nostalgic when I watch those pre-"Ham Sandwich" episodes. But it wasn't a very deep or very honest relationship, and it wasn't very likely to get more so without something big happening. And then, of course, something big DID happen. It would have been absurdly OOC for Alicia to just forgive and forget in a couple of token episodes (especially since it's also OOC for Kalinda to make an attempt to have a conversation that could have sounded at all meaningful), so we had to suffer through a long Act I of estrangement, followed by a relatively quick setup for reconciliation. And yes, I completely agree that the two of them are better together than they are apart--they're nicer and more fun to watch, and that makes the whole show better. But that's sort of been the point of this season so far, SHOWING us that. If the writers actually build something new and great between the two of them in Act III, I'll personally believe that the whole torturous season so far has been totally worth it. If they don't, I'll be bitter. But I can't imagine that viewers who don't care about Kalicia are going to have anything close to that opinion, especially when the Willicia thing just came and went without much hand-wringing or comment.

The above is from the "Live From Damascus" thread.

I like the idea, but I think the writers overestimated the audience's patience. 15 episodes isn't creating tension and angst that is enjoyable to watch. It's just dragging it out and at times outright neglecting the rift. If the writers can't be bothered to devote time and effort to building the relationship that really IS the heart of the show, why should the viewers be invested in it?

I agree that it is a bold attempt, but I think it is a misguided one. I could understand them starting season 3 off with chilly estrangement, then a couple of episodes later having an enormous blowout confrontation, then angsting and being quiety miserable for a few more episodes. Really, this did not need to be stretched out past February sweeps. A friend of mine who is a very casual viewer of the show asked me why Kalinda and Alicia weren't speaking. For a second, I nearly forgot why. That's no way to build a story arc.

[crashdown]

I like the idea, but I think the writers overestimated the audience's patience. 15 episodes isn't creating tension and angst that is enjoyable to watch. It's just dragging it out and at times outright neglecting the rift. If the writers can't be bothered to devote time and effort to building the relationship that really IS the heart of the show, why should the viewers be invested in it?

That's not totally fair--it's not that NOTHING happened in 15 episodes on the Kalicia front--stuff did. The first episode established that yes, things were still cold and bad. In almost every episode after that leading up to "Parenting Made Simple," there was some very small indication of how the rift between the two of them was affecting their work--Alicia messed up a case because she couldn't talk to Kalinda about the evidence that Kalinda gave her, Kalinda chose to work with Eli instead of Will when she heard Alicia's voice in the hotel room in that episode with Celeste, both of them ignored calls from the other, etc. There was also an indication that Kalinda still cared about Alicia even before "Parenting Made Simple"--she refused to do any Eli work that had anything to do with Peter. Alicia, meanwhile, was so wrapped up in the Will affair that she probably wasn't giving Kalinda a thought at all. (That's the big failure to me--I'd have liked to see Alicia occasionally looking at Kalinda with regret. But that's really not in her nature, so perhaps it's not fair to expect that.) Then "Parenting Made Simple" happened, and Kalinda got her chance to do her Sir Galahad, selfless thing. (And that was episode 10.) By episode 11 (right after her breakup with Will) Alicia suddenly noticed how friendless she actually was, and then of course she finds out what Kalinda did to help Grace. After that, each episode represented a little bit of progress between the two of them.

I agree that it is a bold attempt, but I think it is a misguided one. I could understand them starting season 3 off with chilly estrangement, then a couple of episodes later having an enormous blowout confrontation, then angsting and being quiety miserable for a few more episodes. Really, this did not need to be stretched out past February sweeps. A friend of mine who is a very casual viewer of the show asked me why Kalinda and Alicia weren't speaking. For a second, I nearly forgot why. That's no way to build a story arc.

You're probably right, and it certainly would have made me WAY less miserable personally. That's how it would have gone on most shows. But TGW really does do things differently from the way things are done in most other places, and I think they just plain ended up being too subtle in what they were doing here. I'm pretty obsessive about the show and the characters on it: I rewatch scenes, speculate, and analyze. Most people aren't going to bother doing that, and they need to build a story arc for those people, not the few crazies out there who insist on finding a plan and a pattern in the tea leaves even if there really isn't much of one to speak of.

Kind of apropos of all this is this interesting article on the difference between writing satisfying episodes and whole-season arcs (it doesn't mention TGW, but it's still relevant). I really think that this Alicia/Kalinda stuff plays much better if you watch the episodes all in a single weekend (which I've done), rather than dribbed out over months (which of course I've also done). The languid pace and subtle hints work much better that way. But of course, that still has to count as a failure, since viewers are NOT watching the whole season in a single obsessive viewing session.