175 replies to this topic

[TWoP Howard]

From TWoP and ZAP2it:

Jax faces obstacles as he attempts to finalize the gun deal between the Irish and the cartel.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Dec 12, 2011 @ 3:48 PM.

[Dagamuffin]

Nice set-up for the next season. Still pissed that Clay lives, but I like the way they maneuvered that.

I wonder if Opie will show up? Glad Chibs is Sgt. At Arms & welcome back, Juice!

Tara is Gemma 2.0

Edited by Dagamuffin, Dec 6, 2011 @ 11:02 PM.

[IdesOfSmarch]

I thought that was a thoroughly unsatisfying and predictable finale, though it did get me to finally like Potter.

I really wanted Clay to die and Tara to take the boys and haul ass out of town.

Sigh.

[Denil]

I was a bit dissapointed with the ending was hoping that he would finish off Clay.

I definitely did not see that the CIA was behind it.

Here is a link to an interview with Kurt Sutter and season finale and what is next

http://www.tvline.co...inale-spoilers/

[Nightmare Logic]

Ok kinda a slow episode but a lot of stuff still happened.

The Club is between a Rico and a CIA place....nice way to keep Jax and Tara in town. Really liked the Tara mimicking Gemma's pose in the final shot of the episode that was really chilling in all the right ways. The two ladies weren't in a lot of scenes but the ones they were in, they made them count.

I really liked the scene between the Sheriff and Juice. It was a really nice scene. Also a nice scene was the one in City hall. That was kinda funny.

Not very action oriented but the battle lines for next season have been drawn out nicely.

[Critic55]

No disappointment here. I thought the last scene was fantastic.

Next season will be great.

[Mia Nina]

I feel awkward. I was underwhelmed. Galindo-CIA wasn't a surprise, and I wanted Tara to leave. But the battle for Jax's soul rages on between Gemma and Tara so at least I know we'll get some great scenes.

Clay couldn't die. There's just no way. I guess the real loser from all is this Tig. He feels guilty about Clay, Clay steps down, Chibs and Opie are the chosen ones now (if he shows up), and he killed a gangster's daughter because Jax had to protect Opie which means Tig is now #1 in Pope's shoot first list.

Poor wild Tig.

I really liked the scene between the Sheriff and Juice. It was a really nice scene. Also a nice scene was the one in City hall. That was kinda funny.

It really was. Rockmond and Theo Rossi are amazing together. Heh. I was quite disturbed by that doll. Oh Lincoln. Definitely quite a visual. Lincoln's "because the good guys needed a win" reminded me of Coach Taylor in Friday Night Lights, when Smash asks him why he's fighting so hard for him and Coach replies, "because I need something good to happen."

Edited by Mia Nina, Dec 6, 2011 @ 11:13 PM.

[Trojangirldance]

When Romeo said there was no one who flipped in a previous episode I pegged them for either being undercover themselves or something.

I had a huge problem with Tara interrupting church. I am a feminist all the way but damn, this is supposed to be an outlaw biker gang and a woman interrupts church?? Hell to the naw. That would never ever fly.

Also I'm confused, was he telling Tig he wanted Chibs to be sargeant at arms now? What was the deal with the seating arrangement at the end?

And something tells me even though Gemma burned the letters, Jax knows. His whole demeaner towards her at the hospital and again when she was at the doorway, he knows she played a part in his father's death.

LOVED the town council meeting, that was some funny shit right there LOL.

[marleyfan]

I thought that was a thoroughly unsatisfying and predictable finale

Me, too. I thought it was unnecessary for Tara and Gemma to interrupt church. This show is starting to feel like "Old Ladies of Anarchy" more and more.

I hope that was just the empty folder that Jax put in that drawer in the shop. What would be the reason for the letters to be where they are available for all who work there?

Gemma won, even though it was by default. Like in football, as long as it's in the win column, it doesn't really matter how the win happened.

[Atomic Clock]

Usually I watch this show on delay as I don't regard it as appointment viewing like Breaking Bad, Homeland and Justified. Tonight I was so pumped for the resolution of all of the tension that I made an exception and hijacked the TV in my apartment complex social room. After viewing it live, I'm reminded of why this show isn't appointment viewing.

Rather than list all of the things Sutter did wrong, I'll just offer Alan Sepinwall's take on the finale. He is absolutely right. This show is interesting, but ultimately, it doesn't have the courage of it's own convictions.

By the way, Jean the 79-year-old grandma didn't care for Sons of Anarchy anymore than I did. She stayed for five minutes trying to read her magazine, then got up and left. Wonder why.

It won't be a long wait until season five. See you guys on the flipside, and thanks for a season full of interesting discussion.

[Mia Nina]

His whole demeaner towards her at the hospital and again when she was at the doorway, he knows she played a part in his father's death.

Personally, I hope he knows. Enough with the secrets lives of John, Clay and Gemma. He also had to realize that if all that went down Gemma was involved somehow since he knows her pretty well.

ETA: That shot of Bobby Elvis playing the guitar was great. I wonder who will tell Otto what happened.

Edited by Mia Nina, Dec 6, 2011 @ 11:31 PM.

[DB in London]

Good episode, but a piss-poor way to end a season. So much build up for so little pay-off.

[missysimpson]

The title of this episode should have been "The Changing of the Guard."

I knew something was up with the cartel. They weren't as vicious as real cartels are said to be.

Jax must have some magic loving. There is no way I could stay with him. Tara has lost so much and yet she stays in the very situation that she claims to hate. I guess it's true when they say you can take the person out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the person.

How is it that I had a tad bit of sympathy for Clay in that hospital bed even after all of the terrible things he has done?

Sorry Gemma. Your throne is occupied by the new Queen B.


Out with the old and in with the new.

Edited by missysimpson, Dec 6, 2011 @ 11:54 PM.

[trojan69]

The suspensions of disbelief vaulted ever higher, didn't they?

The one piece of the CIA reveal that made perfect sense was how the Tara kidnapping went down. It made no sense to me at the time. None. If that was a straight hit, it would have been handled very differently. Now I know why it went down the way it did.

So, was it ever spoken in this series that he who presents the "PRESIDENT" patch is the de facto head? Why wouldn't the remaining, albeit dwindling, membership get a say/vote? Who the hell was Jax to dictate the chart of organization? Perhaps the vote was a fait accompli. Fine. But I do not accept that Jax could just sit hisself down and run things without the vote of confidence.

Now, what is the consequence to a member who fails to appear for chapel? Does Jax not have to name his VP immediately?

I really like Potter, the AUSA. I could not care less about the City of Charming, and the County of San Joaquin, though. I also question the CIA's ability to have kept their agents' identity from Potter. He is too good at what he does to have not smelled something amiss.

I am also having a super hard time accepting Galen's motivations. It made abundant good sense for him to put off the exchange with the loss of Clay. But, for him to make everything contingent going forward on Clay's physical presence? All that dude cares about is the end/results. Once he saw that the attempted assassination of Clay was strictly internal, he would deal with Jax as the president. He reeeeeeeeeally wants that weaponry.

Tara and Gemma in the chapel at that high moment of transition? Are you flippin' kidding me? Tig and the others would nevereverevereverevereverever trust Jax' judgment. I don't care that we would not get that cool metamorphosis into his mum and dad.

Sadly, this series is a victim of its own success. It's the oldest story in TV drama.

Edited by trojan69, Dec 6, 2011 @ 11:51 PM.

[RFuller42]

I feel really stupid, but I don't get it. Why, exactly, does this deal between Galindo and the Irish have to go down? The CIA is involved how? I just feel so let down - like TPTB sat around and thought of what could trump an FBI RICO sting and came up with the CIA and then threw a couple of out-of-left-field hints to make it slightly less deux eu machina. Poof, all of their legal troubles have disappeared until needed to cause conflict at a later date.

I was noticing that they are even having Tara look more like Gemma as far as her clothes and the way she's wearing her hair. But that last image was a bit heavy on the cheese for my taste.

Major props to Charlie Hunnam for his performance. That scene with Tara was heartbreaking. I am so glad that Jax told Tara flat out about the CIA problem. The idea of him keeping that a secret and it hanging over all of the next season was completely unappealing. And I got the impression that Jax had every intention of using the syringe until Clay woke up. So well played by Hunnam.

[badhabit]

First, I loved the ending. Second, this would have faired better for me as a two hour season finale. Splitting it up made this episode feel a bit weaker to me, but that was only because the first hour was so damn phenomenal. I won't knock it for that though because at least Sutter fought and got the extended episode for the season. Everything that happened in the last two shows needed to be put out there. Moving on...

I so called the Romeo Cartel thing... sorta. I thought they were involved with the feds, but having them be CIA works just as well. I knew that botched hit on Tara was not a hit but an attempted kidnapping. Romeo and his man keeping Tara from being killed but keeping the deal in motion. I was super relieved to find out that was true, because now poor Tara can at least mark "mexican cartel" off her danger list. Much of the CIA/Cartel/Irish felt unfinished to me. For a season that built up to this so much the ending wasn't really an ending, it was a new beginning. I'm okay with that. I like that we have a new jumping off point. And I thought Hunnam played those scenes so well. Poor Jax just can't get a damn thing going his way.

Onto Potter, I've hated him all season long. Like I would literally cringe when he'd come on the screen, and found nothing what so ever redeeming in him. And then he comes in tonight and turns out to be an alright guy. His methods were wonky, and I didn't like how he treated Roosevelt but in the end he really just wanted to put a stop to crime. I'm good with that. In fact, I wouldn't be opposed to him coming back somewhere down the line and causing more trouble. He's a decent opposition for the Sons. He played all his cards, and could have totally dismantled them. He failed this time, but I'm sure it won't be the last. Loved him making peace with Roosevelt, and ESPECIALLY loved him stopping Charming Heights (hopefully). Bringing in those sex toys was genius, and his ending line to rat face Hale was perfection. Score for the good guys indeed.

Roosevelt and Juice also had a satisfying ending for me. A connection did form between them, and I hope we see that explored more later one. Despite himself Roosevelt likes Juice. He didn't feel right about playing Juice dirty. I don't doubt Rosie will attempt to take the Sons down, especially with Oakland gangsters coming in pretty soon, but he'll be above board. I respect that. He's David Hale lite. (And I actually much prefer him to our last fallen cop, win/win for me.)

Jax and Clay... This was a scene so long in the making. I hated when the CIA told Jax he had to keep Clay alive. Hated it. Clay has taken or tried to take nearly everything from Jax, and he's done it with a cold smile on his face. To have Jax be so close to finally ending Clay, and not be able to do it just plain sucked. I wanted Clay dead. I get why he's alive. I get that Sutter needs him for the plot. I get that RP is phenomenal. But he'll always be a rat bastard to me now, and I'll never stop thirsting for his blood. I don't imagine Jax will either (not to mention Tara, can we get a scene with them next season?). So, that hospital scene was kind of bittersweet for me. It was refreshing to finally see all the layers pulled back. Jax and Clay were real with each other. Jax hates Clay. Loathes everything about him, and wishes to slit his throat. Clay doesn't really see Jax as his son. He sees him as his pawn, but he's always feared Jax. He kept him close because Clay knew one day the son would rise, and that moment finally came. Clay was so pathetic in that scene. He couldn't defend himself. Jax wouldn't even let him try. He told Clay how it was going to be, and that was that. Clay doesn't even get to die. He has to sit at that table and take orders from the son of the man he killed. Suck it Clay. I can't wait for their dynamic next season. If I have to suffer him alive, at least Sutter set up a situation I can't wait to view.

One of the most revealing scenes of the night to me was the brief hospital scene with Jax and Gemma. Gemma comes to him practically begging. You can't leave ME. Not the club. Not Charming. ME. And honestly it's always come down to that. Gemma uses the club to keep Jax, but at the crux is she can't let him go. Jax is the one steadfast man she's ever had in her life. She brought him into this world, molded him how she wanted, and expected him to stay that way. Unfortunately for her Tara won, and that could not have been more on display than in that hallway scene. Gemma has one moment of relief when Jax tells her he's not leaving, and tries to hug him... He can't hug her back. He seems downright disgusted with her. Like I said, very revealing. I don't think the Jax/Gemma relationship will ever be the same again. He finally cut the cord, and he's done it in spectacular fashion. He's the man Gemma always dreamed he could be, and in being that she truly lost him.

The scene of Jax visiting his father's grave really got to me. My heart started to really ache for him. It seems Jax really never had a chance. This was his legacy, his destiny, his blood - and he was trapped. It looked like such a heavy burden for Jax. He knew then he had to take that gavel, had to basically become his father... It was sad, bittersweet, haunting. Charlie Hunnam hit every note.

Second part coming...

(I apologize for the longevity of this. This is actually the edited down version. SOA makes me verbose.)

Onto Opie and Jax... brotherhood is dead. This scene really bothered me. Not in that I didn't like it. I did. It all made sense, but I just hate where they are now. Opie doesn't trust Jax. Jax doesn't trust Opie. I believe in the past Jax probably would have told Opie the truth about the CIA, and Opie would have shown up to support him. Now they're so far away from who they used to be. Both of them have made decisions that can't be undone. I kept wishing Jax would have told Opie that Clay killed his father too. The fact that he didn't really made it look to Opie that Jax just didn't give a shit about Piney, or Opie's own feelings. The parting shot of Jax ordering Opie to be there was hard to watch. Who knows where Opie ends up next season, but this seems like just the beginning of the Opie/Jax issues.

The Jax/Tara scene was probably my favorite of the evening. Maybe even more so than the end, which to me is hard to beat. I just thought Charlie and Maggie were phenomenal. My heart ached for them, and I almost shed a tear. If the scene had had more time to linger I probably would have started crying. So much about this scene stood out to me. First, the direction was perfect. Having Tara sitting on the ground with their innocent baby, having Jax walk into that, and hesitate before shattering every promise he's ever made her - killer. The set up was haunting. I loved that Jax told Tara the truth about the CIA. It said a lot. She is the only person he totally loves and trusts at this point. He doesn't doubt her loyalty even though he knows he's about to break her with his decision. Tara's immediate response to be concerned and shocked, but not realize what it meant was also very sad for me. It seemed like some of her walls had come down. She wanted to support him. But the moment that really did me in was the realization of what that meant. Maggie Siff killed it. Her eyes were shining, her whole body stilled... it all broke for Tara in that moment. And if I thought she owned the scene, then came Charlie Hunnam. Jax looked like he felt so ashamed of what he was doing. In his heart of hearts he couldn't walk away from the club and let it die, but it was like he was dying an emotional death in that room. When he totally fell apart and began crying about how much he loved her... I was stunned. It's rare we ever see Jax totally let his emotions out. He keeps them reeled in unless it's an angry rage. But this... he couldn't help himself. It's probably my favorite Jax moment of the season if not series. That powerful. And then... "He's mine."

Two words have never meant so much to a character. Tara has loved Jax since she was 16 years old. She left him once. She made a life for herself, and at the end of that road she came back to Charming. Not much is said about the ending of their first relationship. We know it nearly killed Jax. We've heard less on what it did to her. I think after tonight we can safely say it was a hell she just couldn't go through again. She loves him. She wishes she didn't. She would change it if she could. She can't. She knows exactly who he is. She knows him better than Gemma. Maybe even better than he knows himself. And she still loves him, warts and all. People say Tara is stupid but I disagree. I think she's very self aware. She knows exactly what she's doing she just can't get off the tracks. Had Jax tried to convince her to stay maybe the situation would have turned out differently. The fact that he didn't, that he let her go is what made this okay for me. Tara has been on the fence since she was 16. Leaving, coming back, I love you, I can't be with you in Charming, etc. It's always been a struggle for her, and tonight she finally got off the fence. She finally made her choice. Is it wrong? Maybe. I don't think it much matters. She can't live without him. She doesn't want to. It might lead to her death, but it is what it is.

Which brings me to the ending scene. I was pretty traumatized by the time "House of the Rising Son" came on. I really thought Tara was out, and I couldn't imagine spending 9 months miserable with this finale. But I tried to clear that away and really watch the montage. A few things stuck out, in no particular order. What did Jax lock up? And it's trouble that Gemma saw. Her meddling days aren't over. Unser was sitting at the head of Gemma's table looking very proud of himself. Is he her new old man? He sure as hell wants to be. They're an odd pair for me. I don't get the romantic vibes, but I'm just glad he survived another season. RIP Piney. And then the gavel... I'm going to try and not get too long winded about this scene. I felt only misery watching Jax walk into that clubhouse, and sit down in that seat. It seemed like he'd given everything up for an empty existence. And at the same time it was so damn mythic. Jax was truly the rising son. He was following in the destiny that had always been his, following after his father, and maybe having a shot at turning it all around. I loved Chibs being the SAA. He's trust worthy, and that was a smart move for Jax. Though removing Tig is going to cause issues next season. I'm sure Tig's going to be all about Clay, and neither of them are brain trusts. Gotta watch out. It was sad to see how dwindled the table has become. It's time to recruit more SOA boys. Or at least patch Filthy Phil and Rat Boy in. Phil baby sat Jax's kids. That has to be good enough for a patch.

I kept waiting on Opie to show. I wanted to see him right beside Jax. When Tig asked, and Jax knocked that gavel I was sad. I thought Hell, this is an awful ending. Then the door cracked, and I thought well at least Jax has Opie... And it was Tara. I was relieved. Stunned. Excited. I knew what was coming. I think someone on here speculated about that JT/Gemma picture mirroring Jax/Tara, and I was so hoping that was true. And then it came. I was so... touched seeing Tara kneel to Jax and love him in a way that no one else ever has in his life. Gemma's love was about control. Clay's was the same. JT deserted him. But Tara... she came back. She chose him above everything else, and as crazy as that might be that is what Jax needed. He needed her by his side to be whole, to make this work, and she gave him that. MYTHIC. Sutter talks a lot about Kings and Queens, and tonight Jax and Tara rose to SOA royalty. Finally, the rightful King with a good Queen by his side. It was haunting to see them take on the pose of his parents decades before. I can only hope they don't get the same tragic ending, but this is SOA so I'll never bet on that. And finally, the look between Gemma and Tara? Gemma lost. Truly lost. It was vindicating, and also a little scary.

So until then, goodbye SOA. This season sped by with many highs and few lows. It'll go down as one of my favorites, and no one can touch that ending. Bring on S5.

Edited by badhabit, Dec 6, 2011 @ 11:57 PM.

[lambie]

I never thought CH was all that great but he had some really amazing moments tonight. His scene with Tara was painful to watch.

SoA has gotten some great performances out of their little actors this season. There was the scene earlier in the season where Jax gives Tara a kiss and the baby stuck his face out for a kiss too. It was totally unscripted and you could see CH and MS were both amused and just went with it. Tonight after Jax left the room and Tara was crying the baby crawled toward Tara to her lap. Little things like that give back some of the realism the bullshit BULLSHIT storyline of the finale.

Loved Potter showing up at the hearing to save the town even though he doesn't like people very much. I'm glad they didn't end his story as a one-dimensional bad guy like Stahl.

Hated Gemma's shit-eating grin at the end with Jax at the head of the table. Boy can KS act with her eyes though. Damn.

[vadare]

Okay...it kinda helps that I had kinda figured out that Romeo and/or Romeo's second-in-command were not who they were claiming to be. So the only thing that surprised me was that it was CIA, I thought they would be FBI or Interpol or something like that.

But sometimes a whimper can be as powerful as a bang. This season has had a lot of bang (up to and including the one that killed Kozik) so there was a certain power to ending it on a definitive whimper. But it was a whimper that spoke volumes.

Having said that, I did have a few quibbles:

1. Jax hiding the letters at Teller-Morrow...dumb dumb dumb. But I've got money that Tara made more than one copy of the letters. Plus Maureen could have a copy of them as well.

2. It will be interesting to see how a deflated, defeated Clay acts next season.

3. BTW, the scene between Clay and Jax at the hospital bed was completely anvillishous. As much as I think we would all like to believe that Tara is Gemma 2.0, I think they are all still being played by Gemma. I just don't know what Gemma's end game is.

I, for one, am looking forward to next season. I've determined that I'm on board for this ride and I'm not getting off until this train stops.

Oh, but kudos to KS for making this timely. He (somewhat) touched on both Fast and Furious and the most recent boy pedophilia scandals.

[BakerX2]

I feel really stupid, but I don't get it. Why, exactly, does this deal between Galindo and the Irish have to go down? The CIA is involved how?

Galindo needs the guns from the Irish to beat their rival; the CIA wants the Galindo cartel in charge of their section because it means "stability" and by "stability", they do whatever the CIA wants them to do in exchange for the CIA letting the Galindo cartel do whatever they want to do, so long as the wants of the cartel don't conflict with the wants of the CIA.

The CIA is rather infamous for these sorts of "deals with the devil", as far as being lazy in a lot of ways where they will let evil folk do whatever they want to so long as they do whatever the CIA wants from them. And yes, some of these "deals" involve the CIA getting next to nothing in return of any real value save having organizations like the Galindo cartel under their thumbs as potential minions whenever the CIA needs someone to do something bad that that can't be traced back to them doing.

The Vic Mackey cameo (Juice watching a season seven episode of Shield on TV in prison) was corny but kind of fitting given that the Corrine/Vic scene in question applies to Jax and Tara in a lot of ways. And we know what happened to the Mackeys....

Wish Opie would have been told the truth outright though. Jax fucking owes him that much, even if it's to let him get the fuck out of dodge while he still can extract himself from SAMCRO and get as far as humanly possible.

Edited by BakerX2, Dec 7, 2011 @ 12:17 AM.

[watchergirl]

I mostly enjoyed this - though it was a real letdown after the insane tension of last week. CH deserves all manner of kudos for a seriously fantastic performance, and the ending montage was creepily perfect. I HATE that Tara is staying in Charming, but the final image of her and Jax actually morphing into JT and Gemma 2.0 was awesome.

HOWEVER. I FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE HATE that Tara stayed. Not only that she stayed, but that she took approximately 4.5 seconds to decide to stay, to throw away her life, and risk the lives of her children, on a road that she knows ends in pain and heartbreak and probably death for all of them, since, you know, they're dealing guns and drugs and about to get into a gang war and she KNOWS ALL OF THAT. I get the narrative necessity of Tara actually becoming a true "Old Lady", but I just hate it. It's stupid.

And I even buy that statement is mostly true:

She loves him. She wishes she didn't. She would change it if she could. She can't. She knows exactly who he is. She knows him better than Gemma. Maybe even better than he knows himself. And she still loves him, warts and all. People say Tara is stupid but I disagree. I think she's very self aware. She knows exactly what she's doing she just can't get off the track.

I think she loves Jax completely, but I think it makes her stupid. I think that we've not seen NEARLY enough about how loving Jax has made her into everything she never ever wanted to be and how that SHOULD be conflicting her over and over - not about the letters or lying to Jax or even staying in or leaving Charming, but about how she herself has changed over the course of this. More than like five minutes to okay, we'll stay and be MC Royalty, It's Cool. I just can't see how we've done this total character 180 from earlier Seasons Tara to this strange, podperson girl who's willing to risk the lives of her children to stay in a lifestyle she doesn't even like, to give up the career she wanted, to have her life threatened, just because Jax can't walk away from the club, even though he's framed it over and over as a destructive cancer that's ruined everything in his life.

I just can't see how she's suddenly this Ride or Die chick now and I can't see how she got there. I really needed more of her POV to make this work, and I just feel like we've gotten NONE of it. All she does is react to things. UGH.

Also, is any of the rest of the club going to find out that Piney's dead, ever? Shouldn't someone be asking where he is during this whole changing of the guard situation?

Edited by watchergirl, Dec 7, 2011 @ 12:48 AM.

[Raider Duck]

Wish Opie would have been told the truth outright though. Jax fucking owes him that much, even if it's to let him get the fuck out of dodge while he still can extract himself from SAMCRO and get as far as humanly possible.

On the one hand, Opie deserves the truth. On the other hand, his judgement sucks. Sooner or later, he'd let it slip, and the CIA and FBI would come down on the Sons like a ton of bricks. Jax had to tell Tara, simply because she was owed an explanation for why he couldn't leave, and he can probably trust her to not go blabbing it to whoever. But Opie can't be trusted on that level.

I can totally see Jax tossing over Tig for Chibs. Tig's got zero self-control, and is a Clay loyalist. I still think Gemma ends up as Tig's old lady, though. And the well-deserved emasculation of Clay will continue: The stepson who hates him is now running his club, and his former enforcer is nightly banging his ex-wife.

[minirth]

I knew Romeo was working for someone! Woot! I really liked the "Why are you doing this?" conversations, but this was by far the best.

Why are you doing this?

Because I don't like you. And the good guys need a win.

Aw, Potter, I'll miss you and your wonderful weirdness. And I love you for doing good that you didn't have to. You gave Juice back his life.

I do need help. I am confused about who is what now, because I never memorized the positions around the table. It's now, counter-clockwise from the top:

President: Jax, self-appointed (was Clay, murdered his way into it)(was John, murdered)

VP: Opie (was Jax)

Sergeant at Arms: Chibs (was Tig)

_________???: Tig (was Chibs?)

_________: Happy (did he move?)


P.S. badhabit, wonderful post, agree with all of it.

P.P.S. If Tara and Jax didn't have kids, I'd say fine, you want to throw your life away, no one can stop you. If this is where you choose to cast your lot, whatever or whoever you believe in, be with you. But you've got BABIES. Are you fucking kidding me with this shit? I'm not even a mother and I'm hysterically outraged! Good god, I am so not ok with that.

That having been said, the final shot... the song... fucking perfect.

P.P.P.S. Thank you, Kurt Sutter, for not killing anyone else this season. I couldn't have taken a critical loss.

Edited by minirth, Dec 7, 2011 @ 12:41 AM.

[badhabit]

watchergirl - I agree that I wish we could have seen more of Tara before meeting this end point, I don't think it's out of the blue. This has been the journey Tara has been on since she met Jax. She was 16 then. From all we know about that time she was wild and crazy, they were hot and heavy in love, and she was the youngest girl ever to get a crow tattooed on her. She made her decision back then by loving him in the first place. She found a minor reprieve when she escaped, but whatever she found in the outside world wasn't enough for Tara. And she had 10 years to find it. It's not like she doesn't know what being without Jax would be like. She could have taken those boys but the reality is she would have come back. She always comes back to him. I'm not claiming it's healthy or right, but then again I think it's hard to come by a truly healthy relationship even in real life, and this is fantasy so I play along without much complaint.

I honestly think had Tara left it would have been a regression for her. Sutter has been building on this final decision since S1. She stayed for Jax then too. Donna had just been brutally murdered. Jax has his crack addict ex hanging around, and his crazy mother was all over Tara. Yet, she stayed. S2 was another horrifying experience for her. She watched the aftermath of Gemma's rape, and began her schooling on how to be a real old lady. She got violent with Margaret, but even that didn't turn her around. Abel was kidnapped and she was nearly gutted, she stayed. Jax tried to force her out. He was awful and cold to her. He slept with a porn star. Deserted her. She was kidnapped by mexicans and almost aborted her baby. Jax returned and she stayed. He went to jail. She stayed. He got involved with a damn cartel. She stayed.

So, nothing in her past actions makes me believe she has the strength or the desire to really leave him. She'd love nothing more than to kidnap him and drag him out, but she's either leaving Charming with Jax, in a body bag or never getting out. And I think Sutter was true to her character in that decision tonight, because honestly when has it ever really seemed like a choice for Tara? Maybe for five seconds this season, but even then she had the promise from Jax to come with her.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Dec 7, 2011 @ 5:03 AM.
Added paragraph breaks

[ttfr1]

So, let's see. The CIA is working with Galindo so they can be the major cartel selling drugs in the US. Why? So they can have more control over the drugs making it across the border? Aren't we supposed to try and stop drug sales, not control them? What are they controlling exactly? Who buys the drugs? Where they are distributed? Is this plotline buying into the belief that TPTB in this country control the running of drugs and make sure that most of it stays in poor less white communities? It may very well be what goes down. Who knows? But, it seems so out of left field and was sprung on us so late that it was just too convenient. This one event: The CIA and their rats swoop down on Potter and company and in 3 minutes of scene time wash away Clay's death sentence, Juice's worries and Jax's plans to leave. Seems lazy to me. Seems Sutter doesn't have the guts I thought he did.

I was heart broken when I didn't see Opie walk through that big door. Everytime Jax looked at the door I thought it'd be Op coming through it but, NO. First it was Tara. Then he looked again and I thought, "Please let it be Opie". But, no...just bitch face Gemma.

I am so glad he told Tara the whole truth about the CIA (contrived crap plotline that it is) but someone clue me in to why he couldn't be as honest with Op. Opie is supposed to be the closest person to him next to Tara. He tells her all and it has helped them stay close, apparently. With Opie, Jax is always giving him part of the story and because of that things always turn out bad for their friendship. Jax has down right lied to Op and other times given him half truths. Does he really expect Opie to blindly trust him now? He must know that whatever he tells Op in confidence would never leak out to anyone else. Opie has never breached a trust with a SOA brother, especially Jax. Jax should have just come clean with Opie and together they could get through the cartel thing and rid themselves of Clay's soulless ass later. Now, Opie will probably go rogue and try and kill Clay for good. Or, worst, he'll finally turn on the club and who knows where that could lead. My only hope is that the first scene of next season will be Opie finally walking through that door...late, but there.

If this were real life I'd be rooting for Op to leave, go get his kids, find Lila and start over clean. But, RH is the main reason I watch SoA and if he were to leave I'd have a hard time continuing watching. I know he'll be back but I'm worried as to how and in what role as it pertains to the MC. When this series ends the one character I want to still be standing is Opie. I think that would be justice for all the shit and lies and half truths he's had to put up with.

Gemma burns the letters. Well, ain't that nice. News Flash, bitch: Clay ain't dead and he knows the WHOLE truth. He may not be a man Jax would believe but he can still plant the seeds in Jax's head about Gemma's involvement with JT's death. And, don't think Jax hasn't already thought about that. I wonder who'll kill who first. Gemma or Clay?

Another thing that pisses me off about the CIA reveal: the continuation of the cartel biz. Blech!

So, Tig killed the daughter of the baddest ass thug in O-town. Awesome! Tig never fails to majorly fuck things up. Talk about bad Karma.

Overall, the two previous eps were much better. This one was a bit meh and nothing I wanted to happen happened. Like Clay's slow painful demise.

[Ireland77]

[Tig] killed a gangster's daughter because Jax had to protect Opie which means Tig is now #1 in Pope's shoot first list.

Eh ... Tig killed a gangster's daughter because he is a fucking idiot, acted without authority, and was feeling guilty about leaving Clay unprotected for reasons that Clay gave that weren't even true. Tig's actions have brought heat down on the whole club - since I don't think that they have established the Niners knew it was Tig specifically (not that it would matter, as he would still be seen as an SAMCRO representative).

Edited by Ireland77, Dec 7, 2011 @ 12:37 AM.

[john68]

The last scene with Tara standing over Jax and it fading to a picture of Jax's dad and Gemma was damn epic.

[watchergirl]

badhabit - Thanks for that - and I do see your point, and it does sort of help a little. I think I'm just hung up on the fact that, like, the one character trait we've really gotten hit over the head with with Tara this season (besides her loving Jax) is that she is a great mom and she loves her kids.

And I am horrified, I think, that it seems to take so little consideration for her to keep them here in a life that is a very real danger to them - whether that's actual physical danger to their persons, or danger in them ending up orphans - and will end up in them both growing up in the MC culture, becoming just like their father, and probably patching in themselves instead of going to college. I think it's that piece that rings untrue to me most jarringly - I think Tara would have clawed tooth and nail to get her kids out of that life, and I need to see some more of her perspective on why that's suddenly not a priority or even seemingly worth a terribly long deliberation.

I can see why Tara's choice is Jax, but not why her choice for her kids is this life and this risk. If the answer is that Tara's crazy Twilight-style doomed in love with Jax and damn all the consequences whatever they are, that's fine - I mean, I won't like it, but I would like the character moment that gets her there. I don't like a lot of things that Gemma does, but I feel like they do a better job of showing me how she got to the point of doing them.

[vadare]

Thanks to both badhabit and watchergirl for their comments.

badhabit-Your first post on this episode was long, but killer. ITA with every word of it.

OTOH watchergirl, I totally see your point and in a way, I agree with you. Tara's a smart woman, why would she make this seemingly-foolish choice for the family she loves so deeply?

But both of y'all are making tons of sense and I'm appreciating the back and forth on the subject.

I've just got to say, if Tara was my bestie, I'd've told her to pack up and get the hell out of Dodge a loooong time ago. I can only watch this and root Tara on because I know this is just pretend. None of us really want a woman to keep her two children in town where Daddy deals drugs and guns (remember, we wouldn't know about the CIA angle).

I do have one question though...does this mean Jax gets to keep any money he makes, or does the CIA commandeer all of it?

[Raider Duck]

Tig killed a gangster's daughter because Jax had to protect Opie which means Tig is now #1 in Pope's shoot first list.

Eh ... Tig killed a gangster's daughter because he is a fucking idiot, acted without authority, and was feeling guilty about leaving Clay unprotected for reasons that Clay gave that weren't even true.

The mafia calls it "Going off the reservation" and that's exactly what Tig did. In a more organized criminal enterprise, he would probably be killed for something like that.

[ttfr1]

HOWEVER. I FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE HATE that Tara stayed. Not only that she stayed, but that she took approximately 4.5 seconds to decide to stay, to throw away her life, and risk the lives of her children, on a road that she knows ends in pain and heartbreak and probably death for all of them, since, you know, they're dealing guns and drugs and about to get into a gang war and she KNOWS ALL OF THAT. I get the narrative necessity of Tara actually becoming a true "Old Lady", but I just hate it. It's stupid.

I guess the old belief that a mother loves no one more that her children sure does not apply to Tara. Jax is really the ONLY one she loves. She's kinda like Kohn in her obsession. She's supposedly smart. Does she not see that she and Jax are going the same route as Clay and Gemma and that one day their sons will be caught up in this evil world they presently have to deal with? She has thrown it all away. I doubt she even tries to go back to being a doctor. She'll probably throw herself completely into the old lady lifestyle. Only she won't be an old lady. She'll be Jax's real VP or his co-captain at the helm. Digging herslef in deeper season by season. Making herself an accomplice to every criminal action the club commits. Great. She and Jax can end up in a co-ed prison, maybe, How romantic. And, then, the true stable parent, Wendy, can raise not only her child but Jax and Tara's as well.

On the one hand, Opie deserves the truth. On the other hand, his judgement sucks. Sooner or later, he'd let it slip, and the CIA and FBI would come down on the Sons like a ton of bricks

I agree Op's judgement often sucks but in his personal life not when it involves the club. He has never discussed club business with anyone outside the club and everything Jax has told him in private has always stayed between them. if Jax were to tell him the whole truth just ONCE in their friendship I know that he'd not slip up and tell the wrong person. Who would he slip up with? Lila? He never tells her any thing about the club let alone a big deal like the CIA dealio. Would he tell Tig. Hell, no. Chibs. Nah. Any of the guys? No. He has never lied to Jax. Jax is the liar and makes more crap decisons than Opie ever dreamed of. If Jax wanted Opie's trust so badly he should have earned it first. A good start would be telling his BEST friend the truth...just ONCE.