214 replies to this topic

[TWoP Howard]

From TWoP and ZAP2it:

Nucky prepares Margaret for a worst-case scenario; Jimmy revisits his college days; Mickey Doyle must share his liquor profits; Nelson's past comes back to haunt him.

That’s the English translation of Princeton University’s motto, Dei sub numine viget.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Dec 9, 2011 @ 9:06 PM.

[CharlieBraun]

Holy sheit!

[AimingforYoko]

All during Jimmy's flashback all I could think was, "Please don't go there, please don't go there." So of course, they went there. Gillian is not just a little strange. She's full on nuts.

[Souvien]

"I don't like the way you loom"....BWAH-HAH-HAH!

[Redtracer]

Well, wasn't that just a giant trainwreck of emotional issues? Speaking of...

My eyes. They burn. I knew that something nasty was going to happen when Jimmy was beating the crap out of the professor, Angela was looking horrified/embarrassed, and Gillian's reaction can only be described as, "My hero!"

Okay, I'm sorry for being so dumb, but can someone explain what exactly happened with Van Alden and the shooting? I watched that scene three times, and I'm not getting it for some reason.

[nymediamaven]

A very, very frustrating episode. We waited and waited to see Jimmy's reaction to Angela's murder and instead got lots and lots of college backstory. As soon as his mother showed up in that dress, I knew what was coming and I literally said to the TV, "Don't do it, don't do it," but of course, the full Oedipal plot we all knew was there all along came through. When she said "finish it," I so wanted Jimmy to plunge that knife into her black heart, but we see he powerless against her.

Margaret = Catholic guilt personified.

Van Alden - murder will out. That's one Russian out of the pinebarrens at last.

[Bookreader]

What did I just watch! When the professor said that Jimmy's life was a Jacobean play, boy, he wasn't kidding.

I wasn't clear on what happened with Van Alden either.

Don't really like the Nucky/Margaret situation. Did kind of laugh though at the scene where he didn't get the parable. Characters in the series really do have a habit of telling stories by way of illustration.

[Midge]

WTF? What a freakish episode.

That Gillian is a master. A sociopath, but a master. What a sick twist.

So the commodore is dead, wonder who gets everything?

Not to speak ill of the dead, but Angela could have used some support and a different dress for that university gala (I swear it was see through). And who tells someone they're pregnant at a location like that? She so should have dumped Jimmy for the roommate.

So does Nucky know about Angela? Does anyone? (eta: wait, all the Chicago gang knows)

I withdraw all my previous Margaret admiration. I get that she is going through a bad situation, but the way she is behaving/reacting is getting on my nerves. I don't understand why she is so bound and determined to ruin everything with Nucky.

Van Alden on the run. I am soooo glad that came back to roost. I wonder where Abigail will go. Rose?

Van Alden - murder will out. That's one Russian out of the pinebarrens at last.

Awesome.

Edited by Midge, Dec 4, 2011 @ 10:12 PM.

[buttercupia]

"I don't like the way you loom"

Quote of the season, as far as I'm concerned.

I did not expect Van Alden to do a runner. Overall this was a very intense but weird episode. I did sob a bit when Jimmy woke up hearing Angela's voice, and I'm glad we got their backstory at last. Better late than never.

Did not expect the Commodore to end that way, either. Wow.

[3 is enough]

Wow. How much will get resolved next week?

ETA: Was Jimmy doing cocaine? It looked like it.

Edited by 3 is enough, Dec 4, 2011 @ 10:29 PM.

[AimingforYoko]

Okay, I'm sorry for being so dumb, but can someone explain what exactly happened with Van Alden and the shooting?

After the good pastor spilled the beans about what happened to Sebso, Lathrop moved to relieve Van Alden of his weapon, they struggled, Lathrop got shot in the leg and Van Alden went on the lam.

[Contralto]

"Would that I had never borne thee" -- has Gillian been going all out for Jimmy, or has her unconscious resentment been sabotaging him? "Intimate with a woman" is a big fat motive, and not all that obvious from the circumstances.

But yikes! -- the Commodore's dead, Angela's dead and it's just Jimmy and Gillian. Was "I'll be upstairs" an invitation? Ironic that the Commodore got killed for finally trying to save Gillian.

Okay, I'm sorry for being so dumb, but can someone explain what exactly happened with Van Alden and the shooting? I watched that scene three times, and I'm not getting it for some reason.

When Randolph and Nucky's lawyer brought in the deacon who witnessed the baptism-to-death, they confronted Van Alden with Sepso's gun and shoes. Van Alden grabbed the gun. (Did Sepso leave the items on the bank, or did the deacon impound them in case he needed proof of his story? Either way, those pricey shoes had been Van Alden's evidence that Sepso took a bribe to murder that witness.)

ETA: I thought that was Sepso's gun that they held up in front of Van Alden. Maybe I was wrong.

Edited by Contralto, Dec 4, 2011 @ 10:21 PM.

[clack]

What storylines and characters will remain for next season? Appears BE is cleaning house.

Commodore and Angela dead. Nelson now a fugitive -- don't see him ever being able to return to law enforcement. Jimmy seems to have hit the end of the line. Looks like Margaret and Nucky are finished. Yikes.

[growsonwalls]

I can understand Margaret's reaction to Nucky. It's a time of great stress for her, and many many marriages and relationships become strained under such circumstances. Many people turn to religion for comfort, and Margaret is exhibit A. Nucky, on the other hand, has a "life goes on" attitude. Margaret feels guilty -- she's seeing Emily suffer for what she believes are her sins. She finds Nucky's cheerful attitude infuriating. I probably would too.

Jimmy -- wow wow wow. Gillian is one cold sociopath. A fascinating character. And we got a great backstory to Gillian, Jimmy, and Angela.

[Bookreader]

I'm guessing that the deacon saved those items, never really thinking it would be possible to bring a case against Van Alden, but hoping that he would be able to. That was a great bit of karma there.

I don't really like the directions that the personalities of Margaret and Nucky have taken. I understand them, but Margaret is a near religious fanatic and Nucky is really cold and cruel.

[MetalMel]

Incest must be the new pink, as far as HBO is concerned. This is the 3rd series in a row for me so far that its been used in some fashion in the storylines. (GoT, TB, and now BE). LOL.

The one thing I am not entirely following is how is Nucky in any better situation with his case now that Van Alden's out of the picture? Yes, I understand he's no longer a reliable witness, but you still have Halloran and Eli testifying against Nucky. Unless the defense feels they can win because the Gov't now has fewer witnesses?

[marleyfan]

A very, very frustrating episode. We waited and waited to see Jimmy's reaction to Angela's murder and instead got lots and lots of college backstory

Word!! I wonder how Gillian is going to explain the Commodore's death? I thought Jimmy would kill the Commodore-him recovering from a stroke along with his advanced age.

Margaret just couldn't come clean with Nucky about cheating, could she?

[Midge]

The one thing I am not entirely following is how is Nucky in any better situation with his case now that Van Alden's out of the picture?

Wouldn't everything he brought to the table be thrown out in court (especially since Nucky now has a good lawyer). So while it does not clear him by any means, I would think that it has cut the legs off their case. If he can get Ely to not testify against him or Halloran to recant I think he'll get off.

[Bookreader]

Regarding the incest, etc., things are definitely getting too weird for me on this show. Really making me lose my suspension of disbelief.

Really, things won't be better for Nucky and his case unless the feds consider it more important to bring down someone else rather than him, in which case he could turn state's evidence, or whatever the equivalent was back then.

[Sanveann]

Well, to be fair, the GoT incest is just following the plot of the books.

I still can't understand why Nucky won't marry Margaret. Not only does it take care of her feeling that they're living in sin, but then she wouldn't have to testify against him. I could understand both of their frustrations, though. Margaret has a little girl who may never walk, a lover/provider who's told her he may be facing the chair, a maid who now knows way too much ... I'd be freaking, too. And Margaret is suddenly acting very differently than the woman Nucky first met, and of course he's taken her from poverty to a a very lavish lifestyle, so no doubt he feels she's being less than grateful.

[AimingforYoko]

Margaret just couldn't come clean with Nucky about cheating, could she?

Well, it would just make her feel better at Owen's expense. Besides, it will just that more dramatic when Katy spills the beans.

[clack]

The one thing I am not entirely following is how is Nucky in any better situation with his case now that Van Alden's out of the picture? Yes, I understand he's no longer a reliable witness, but you still have Halloran and Eli testifying against Nucky

Because Halloran and Eli are Schroeder's actual killers, and Eli has yet to spill the beans to the prosecution.

Eli can confess and spend the rest of his life in prison, or work with Nucky to impeach Halloran's testimony, or even get Halloran to withdraw it. Halloran, as we've seen, is weak and stupid, and without him the prosecution has no case.

[Cassis]

So much for Jimmy's excuse that the war fucked him up.

I don't see how Jimmy stays alive after this.

I don't see how Van Alden stays alive after this.

I don't see how Eli stays alive if his choice is the chair vs. being the only witness against Nucky.

I don't really like the directions that the personalities of Margaret and Nucky have taken. I understand them, but Margaret is a near religious fanatic and Nucky is really cold and cruel.

Margaret has gone off the deep end. I find it really hard to believe that after all she's done for the past twelve? fifteen? years (beginning at least with getting pregnant and stealing from her family) with no outer expressions of guilt, she is suddenly going all in for God.

On the other hand, I think we are finally seeing the real Nucky behind the genial facade.

Regarding the incest, etc., things are definitely getting too weird for me on this show. Really making me lose my suspension of disbelief.

The incest has always been the subtext of Jimmy and Gillian's relationship. Would've been fine without seeing it explicitly made text.

[TeePee]

ETA: Was Jimmy doing cocaine? It looked like it.

I think it is heroin.

[buttercupia]

Yes, it looked like the heroin "samples" Luciano gave him last episode. The wrapper was on the floor.

[wordslinger]

Wow. Oedipus driven home with a sledgehammer. But Oedipus only dreamed of being this screwed up.

So much for Jimmy's excuse that the war fucked him up.

But now we know why he thought trench warfare was his best option.

Van Alden - murder will out. That's one Russian out of the pinebarrens at last.

Quote of the night!

I did like the fact that Nucky, irritable as always, almost didn't let the guy tell the Van Alden story.

[Redtracer]

Thanks very much, AimingforYoko and Contralto. I knew that this was something from Van Alden's past coming back to bite him in the ass, but I just wasn't getting it, for some reason.

And I know that hindsight is 20/20 and everything, but wouldn't it have been better for Lathrop to first request that Van Alden surrender his weapon himself?

[MetalMel]

Well, to be fair, the GoT incest is just following the plot of the books.

Oh, I know. I was well aware of what was going to be happening in that show - I just find it mildly amusing that two series following GoT have had incest plot points as well. :) Makes me wonder what will be in store if I start watching "Luck" or "The Borgias S2". Heh.

Wouldn't everything he brought to the table be thrown out in court (especially since Nucky now has a good lawyer). So while it does not clear him by any means, I would think that it has cut the legs off their case. If he can get Ely to not testify against him or Halloran to recant I think he'll get off.

*snaps fingers* You're right - I completely overlooked the fact that (I believe) it was because of Van Alden's case file and his obsession with Nucky's involvement in Hans Schroeder's murder that led to the questioning of Halloran, jailing of Eli, et al.

So - now that I've straightened all that out in my head, if the AG's attempt to pin Nucky on those charges falls out the window, what about the previous charges of election rigging - will those still stand? (I know, I know - watch the finale!)

[cherry malotte]

Here's another viewer saying 'don't go there, don't go there' with Jimmy and Gillian. I think we could have done without it, we all know she's a sneaky slick tongued psychotic control freak anyway. I don't need Greek Tragedy as a side to my already dark toned main course.

Boy, one has to wonder what's going on in Richard's mind right now and how he's feeling about Jimmy. I don't think he would care for Gillian much, even if she was thinking she was helping cover for Jimmy with her simpleminded comment. At some point you'd think he would walk away from the whole situation, but being so damaged in his own way he may not.

Van Alden may go back and take that deal to have a few bucks for the road.

Edited by cherry malotte, Dec 4, 2011 @ 10:46 PM.

[Mikesaunt]

Oh wow! What an episode.

Gillian: Did you see how happy she was discussing how to explain Angela's disappearance to Tommy?. She was on top of the world now that her rival is dead. And, now, that the Commodore is dead--that line about she being upstairs was definitely an invitation to Jimmy to join her. Creepy in all sense of the word. Like they were man and wife at the end of the day. Boy,she is one cold sister.

Richard: How upset he was when he touched the blood stain on the floor. All that emotion encapsulated in his trembling chin. At least he mourned for Angela.

Van Alden: Soon to be divorced ex-lawman on the run. Sebsko has come back to haunt you! Poor Abigail- no mother and now no father I wonder what will become of her?

Margaret: Your stuff is about to be exposed. Katie now knows that you and Owen did the do. Nothing like a servant who knows all the dirt on her employer.

Owen: You, sir, are a piece of work. You want to deceive Nucky--do it outside of his home. Margaret, you are included in this condemnation.

Wow, the commodore and Angela dead, Jimmy injured, Margaret becoming a bit off the edge, Van Alden on the lam, Eli in jail--guess the finale is going to be a humdinger.


ETA: How could i neglect to add that I, too, spoke to my TV--don't show Jimmy and Gillian doing the do. I must admit that I actually turned the channel and came back on scene with Jimmy waking up in the empty hotel room. Just ugh.

Edited by Mikesaunt, Dec 4, 2011 @ 10:55 PM.