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A Thread for All Seasons: All-Episodes Discussion


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#391

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 9:43 AM

When she took the key to her room at the B&B from Granny.

Right. Emma just being there didn't start any change in the curse - Emma deciding to stay (for a week) did. Emma putting on the badge and making her stay more permanent again evoked a response - a much larger one. I do rather wonder if the clock would stop again (people stop aging, etc.) if Emma left. I think it's likely.
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#392

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 10:06 AM

Ohhhh...because that signified she wasn't just dropping Henry off, but was going to stay? Good memory!
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#393

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 12:43 AM

In one of these threads (now I can't figure out which one), someone linked to a video of the writers talking about the show. I think it was linked due to something else they said, but what kind of took my breath away was the casual mention starting at 2:27 that Mr. Gold "figured things out" toward the end of the pilot, when he heard Emma's name (the idea being, it seems, that since Snow had told him Emma's name when she and "Charming" came to talk to him in prison, hearing the name again jogged him into remembering he was really Rumpelstiltskin, and not just a rich American named Gold.

Always when speculating that Gold might "know", and since the reveal that he does in fact know, I had just assumed that he knew all along, all through these 28 years. It hadn't ever occurred to me that this was closer akin to what happened to Graham, a revelation occurring as a result of Emma's arrival! We're still assuming, though, aren't we, that Regina has known what's up throughout the 28 years?
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#394

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 7:32 AM

Always when speculating that Gold might "know", and since the reveal that he does in fact know, I had just assumed that he knew all along, all through these 28 years. It hadn't ever occurred to me that this was closer akin to what happened to Graham, a revelation occurring as a result of Emma's arrival! We're still assuming, though, aren't we, that Regina has known what's up throughout the 28 years?


Yes, the implication has been that Regina always knew.

The issue I have with Gold not realizing until the end of the pilot (and there was some discussion of this after that interview) is that it's much easier to explain why Gold procured Henry if he knew he was Emma's son. (It's also easier to explain why Regina wanted a baby after all those years -- Rumpel manipulated her into wanting one.) Otherwise, you need an outside agent who knew to keep an eye on Emma, or fate, or a self-aware curse or something. Also, I would have thought that Gold would have heard the name of Henry's birth mother...

It absolutely makes sense from the story that Rumpel used "Emma" as the key to unlock his memories, and their implication was that he heard it at the end of the pilot, so I guess they're going to stick with that. I just think it'd make more sense if they'd end up showing that he first heard/spoke the name he found a baby (with her name on the blanket) and a 7 year old boy on the side of the road and made sure they got to safety. Or, at least by the time Emma had Henry.
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#395

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 2:17 PM

I've always had the feeling Mr. Gold knew everything but was waiting/watching for Emma, knowing she might/should arrive in 28 years. I have nothing to back that up other than the intentional 'procuring' of Henry.. and even perhaps the possibility that Rumpelstiltskin may have somehow engineered the situation in which Emma became pregnant. I have a feeling Henry's father wasn't a 'random man on the street'.
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#396

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 2:26 PM

I've always had the feeling Mr. Gold knew everything but was waiting/watching for Emma, knowing she might/should arrive in 28 years. I have nothing to back that up other than the intentional 'procuring' of Henry.. and even perhaps the possibility that Rumpelstiltskin may have somehow engineered the situation in which Emma became pregnant. I have a feeling Henry's father wasn't a 'random man on the street'.


From what the showrunners have said, it is likely that Henry's father has a connection to FTL. Since August will probably not be Baelfire, that leaves the latter as a distinct possibility.

Henry's father is a season 2 arc, once again according to the creators. This allows another intriguing possibility. Who knows what the MILLERS DAUGHTER's deal with Rumplestiltskin cost her? Perhaps her first born child? A son?

Edited by metaphysicist, Apr 18, 2012 @ 2:27 PM.

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#397

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 2:47 PM

All in the family?


'Oh the way Glen Miller played.. songs that made the hit parade.. gee our old LaSalle ran great.. Those were the daaaaays!'
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#398

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 3:33 PM

I've always had the feeling Mr. Gold knew everything but was waiting/watching for Emma, knowing she might/should arrive in 28 years. I have nothing to back that up other than the intentional 'procuring' of Henry.. and even perhaps the possibility that Rumpelstiltskin may have somehow engineered the situation in which Emma became pregnant. I have a feeling Henry's father wasn't a 'random man on the street'.

Yes, I think that Gold remembered everything and was waiting for Emma to show up, but didn't dwell on it as he went about his everyday life. Gold's reaction is not one of surprise when he learns Emma's name. I took the writer's remarks in the interview to mean that hearing Emma's name was more of a memory jog, like an Outlook reminder, than the veil being lifted and he sees everything clearly now. When Gold leaves the inn after meeting Emma there's the barest hint of a smile like he's thinking "Ah, the game begins."

There are several little indications in Gold's interactions with Regina that suggest they have been playing their little cat and mouse game of "does he or doesn't he know" for years. Gold is very cagey in his responses and knows exactly what Regina is getting at, even though she doesn't spell it out. And his use "please" is very strategic and intentional, and not coming as a surprise to Regina. Gold knows exactly why he is saying please and what that means. It's unlikely that Gold would be so adept at controlling those exchanges if he had just regained his memory.

It's too much of a far-fetched coincidence that Gold brokered the adoption of Henry, Emma's son, without knowing who that baby was. I believe Gold kept tabs on Emma through the years, but didn't know exactly when or how he would run into her in Storybrooke, so he wasn't expecting to find her at the inn when he went there to collect rent.
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#399

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 4:49 AM

Was August W. Boothe lying when he said he was hunting Lemures in Nepal??? The fact is that Lemures are: Lemures the ghosts of the dead of a family, considered as troublesome unless exorcised or propitiated; larvae. With this in mind I would say he could have been hunting them just about anywhere.....

Edited by RTS390, Apr 24, 2012 @ 12:29 AM.

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#400

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 8:33 PM

This might not be the appropriate thread to discuss this, but I wish OUAT could do a do-over with the Cinderella story. I think out of all the fairy tale character stories they have done in their first season, Cinderella's story was the weakest. By contrast I think Red Riding Hood was the best. Saddling Cinderella with a baby and instantly reuniting her with Prince Charming proved to be a bad idea IMO.
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#401

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 9:52 PM

I agree, Darlin, but I don't know how they can have a redo, and I'm just glad they haven't really had a big mis-fire on fairy tale adaptations since that one. Ultimately, I think using Cinderella as a prop for the Rumplestiltskin story was a bad idea since she's one of the "big" princesses. But they do use these other fairy tales as a prop for Rumple, or for Regina a lot, and most of them turn out okay. Maybe Belle/Rumple worked better because "Beauty and the Beast" fit in with the Rumplestiltskin-as-a-monster idea much better.
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#402

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 11:42 AM

Ultimately, I think using Cinderella as a prop for the Rumplestiltskin story was a bad idea since she's one of the "big" princesses


The real significance of Cinderella's episode, 1-04: The Price of Gold, is Emma's character development and building her relationship with Henry. Her 'lecture' to Ashley in the car as they go to the hospital, with Henry hanging on every word, cannot be overemphasized. Then there is the crucial scene with Emma negotiating with Gold. Gold just doesn't "push" her buttons, he pounds them. Emma stands up to all his goading maintaining her resolve. See the determination she shows when she says (very much like Snow White) "deal."

The FTL scenes are almost a distraction, a "sleight of the hand" to entertain the audience. And to explain why Rumple is in jail in the pilot. On retrospect he clearly orchestrates his own capture.

I've found that some episodes that I first thought were "fillers" are, in reality, ones that really advance Emma's story. 1-09: True North is another.
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#403

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 12:33 PM

I loved True North - it definitely marked a major point in the emotional development/storyline for Emma when she actually said that she wanted Henry and would have custody of him if she could.

Switching gears: not that it's terribly important, but has anyone noticed a pattern as to when the fairies have wings and when they don't? I'm not positive, but it seems like to me that each time we've seen the Blue Fairy visit someone she had wings. Nova did not have wings when Dreamy saved her fairy dust. I don't think either Nova or the Blue Fairy had wings when they were chatting at the start of the episode. Ella's fairy godmother did not have wings. At first I thought they had wings when smaller, but didn't when they were human-sized, but Nova had wings when she spilled the fairy dust on the egg. Any ideas?

Edited by Tzigone, Apr 24, 2012 @ 12:35 PM.

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#404

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 1:30 PM

From the 1x21 thread:

David Nolan, on the other hand... I feel like David is a prime example for me on what the curse did to everybody: Take away every one of their good and admirable qualities and turn their personalities backwards. None of the heroism and valor we see in his Fairytale counterpart. I don't see Snow White falling for this guy, but then, Mary Margaret is nothing like Snow White either.


Now, I agree with this completely. And I think we have a good grasp of how Archie's personality was changed (particularly in early episodes). Sean and Mitchell are easy to see the differences in. But what about other characters? Sure their happy endings were taken away, but what difference in personality do Granny, Geppetto, Ava, etc. have? What strengths were taken away?

I can sort of see that any smiling-ness Blue had was taken. Mother Superior seems a harsher sort, from the small bit of her we saw. And Ruby is vastly different, though I still don't understand why a heap of flirtatiousness would be added to her nature.
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#405

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 1:38 PM

Kathryn/Abigail: In the Enchanted Forest, she seemed to know exactly, what was going on. In Storybrooke she's much more naive.
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#406

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 1:46 PM

Kathryn/Abigail: In the Enchanted Forest, she seemed to know exactly, what was going on. In Storybrooke she's much more naive.

You're right. Totally slipped my mind. Abigail had ears in another king's court, she was on the ball. Kathryn is right there while David makes goo-goo eyes at Mary Margaret and doesn't even notice!
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#407

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 1:49 PM

I think Marco is suffering a loneliness and depression from not having a child when he wants one. It doesn't mean he can't hold down a job or have friends but I think he'd probably be a lot happier if he still had a son. He seems to do his job but there's this sort of outskirts thing I feel from him, like he's not as involved in the town as he could or would be as Geppetto.

Ava seemed way less bold than Gretel to me. Gretel stood up to the Evil Queen going "If we do this, you promise, blah blah." And never seemed to cry as bad as the situation got, while Ava was more easily upset. Gretel also seemed quite truthful and Ava and Nicholas were liars, willing to trick and take advantage of Henry. Not sure Hansel had any redeeming qualities so did he have anything to lose? (Sorry, I'm harsh on him.)

I'm not seeing any great personality change for Granny though I'm not sure Enchanted Forest Granny would have stood for being intimidated by Mr. Gold.
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#408

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 4:49 PM

I'm not seeing any great personality change for Granny though I'm not sure Enchanted Forest Granny would have stood for being intimidated by Mr. Gold.


Do you think Enchanted Forest Granny would have been intimidated by Rumplestiltskin?
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#409

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 7:07 PM

Fairy Tale Land Granny was all about protecting sweet, innocent Red both from the knowledge of herself and from any people who might be hunting her down. Storybrooke Granny berated Ruby and thought she was a slut. So unconditional love and acceptance of her grandchild vs being unkind and judgmental.
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#410

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 12:42 PM

Since this an all episodes discussion, I thought it would be the right place to talk about my favorite episodes. This was a pretty solid first season; it certainly got me sucked into the show, anyway. Here were my favorite episodes were the pilot, "The Heart Is A Lonely Hunter" (Graham! *sniff), "Skin Deep," "Dreamy, "Red-Handed," "Stable Boy," "An Apple As Red As Blood," and "A Land Without Magic."

I know some people didn't like "Dreamy" or didn't buy the romance between Grumpy and Nova, but I liked it, perhaps because I'm a sucker for Grumpy. Plus, I loved the subplot of Leroy and Mary Margaret selling candles.

Anyone else want to share their favorite episodes?
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#411

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 1:06 PM

"The Pilot" - my absolute favorite. So epic. It sold me on Snow and Charming. Swoon-worthy scene where Charming fights with baby Emma in his arms. I loved so much about it.

Hard to put the others in order by which I like best, so I'll go chronologically and list my faves.
"Snow Falls" - loved Emma's face when Mary Margaret and Henry ran off to see John Doe again. She was so "WTF" - it was gorgeous. We got some backstory on Snow and Charming, and that was nice. The entire sequence when they found John Doe was gorgeous. Mary Margaret's "I found you" and her desperation and Henry being scared and Emma holding him. Very nice. Loved Regina's reaction to hearing it was Mary Margaret who made John Doe react - lovely acting.

"The Shepherd" - more backstory. We found out Charming wasn't named James, but frustratingly did not get his real name. I loved his "people are dying." Also David was awesome before he remembered his false backstory and became a wish-washy wimpy sort. Some lovely David/Mary Margaret scenes.

"True North" - showed us again how evil the Queen was. I loved Gretel. I really enjoyed the family dynamic with Hansel and Gretel and dad and them reuniting. I thought it was so important, too, because it was the first time Emma actually said she wanted Henry with her. Admitted she wanted to be his mother. Huge strides for her.

You'll note they are all earlier episodes - I do feel like momentum was lost somewhere, and only returned at the end. Archie disappeared after "That Still Small Voice" and I liked him. David, after his memories returned, was so passive, so boring. So unlike the dynamic Prince Charming. He bored me. I absolutely believe it was a deliberate creative choice - it showed us what the curse had done to him. The contrast was important. Unfortunately, it also made me not want to watch him. And we never got any significant David/Emma interaction, unlike Mary Margaret/Emma.

There are other episodes that have parts I love, but not the whole of the ep. For instance, I really like the Storybrooke side of "That Still Small Voice." The Emma/Mary Margaret dynamic of "Hat Trick" was great, but Jefferson does nothing for me. Loved the Abigail/Frederick and Kathryn/Regina bits of "What Happened to Frederick" but David was too David and the siren bored me. And so on and so on.

Edited by Tzigone, May 14, 2012 @ 1:07 PM.

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#412

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 3:54 PM

And we never got any significant David/Emma interaction, unlike Mary Margaret/Emma.


We never did get that interaction, but at least we got Emma channeling Charming last night. She was really her father's daughter. I half expected them to use the "heroic Charming music" at the climax of her fight with the dragon. Didn't get that but did get the "HEY" followed by the sword toss. She did Dad one better because hers hit the target.
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#413

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 8:11 PM

My top three:

1. "The Heart Is a Lonely Hunter" - I can't really put into words why this is my favorite episode. I just know that I adore Graham, I adore Emma taking a chance and letting down her walls, and I adore how this was the first time we saw Storybrooke Regina doing something truly, ridiculously evil.

2. "Heart of Darkness" - Come on, the episode opens on an intervention organized by dwarfs and moderated by a cricket! How can you not love an episode like that? But really, I liked seeing the dark side of Snow White and it looked like Ginnifer Goodwin was having fun with it.

3. "A Land Without Magic" - I've watched it three times in less than 24 hours. I think that might be a record for me.
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#414

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Posted May 15, 2012 @ 12:05 PM

Continued from Ep 1-22 thread.

However, by the logic of August's situation, Ruby should have been transforming, or at least having some side effects, since Emma came to town. Pinocchio's blessing (curse) was in abeyance until Emma started time moving again, then it returned since he had violated its terms. Red's condition was not a part of the Curse so should have been activated when the Curse's hegemony weakened.


Ruby has had side effects. She demonstrated some mad tracking skills when helping Emma. Based on her surprise and confusion about having this talent, I think it's safe to say she never demonstrated it before Emma came to town.
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#415

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 12:29 PM

An interesting insight from the finale that answers a question from other episodes, especially the pilot. In the pilot and later in "The Price of Gold" Charming shows a real hostility to Rump. Until the finale, this hostility felt a little out of place to me. Sure Rump was BAD, but he had not done so much to Snow or Charming. He gave Snow the potion to forget Charming, but that all kind of worked out in "Heart of Darkness." He didn't even charge Snow a "price" in helping her with her idea to kill the queen. His deal with Charming in that episode helped Charming at (what seemed to be) a small price. So why was Charming so implacable in dealing with Rump, in real contrast to Snow's attitude.

Now we know of the unseen deal, which was pretty rough on Charming. It was also completely unfair since Rump stole Charming's mother's ring, and then forced Charming into the deal to get it back (although enhanced as it were.)

In a similar fashion, Gold's double cross to Emma (the second deal in his life that he broke) ensures that Emma will never deliver on the "favor" she owes Gold, also from "The Price of Gold." His chance at manipulating her in the future goes from around 50% to zero! He better hope Emma doesn't have magic, as Jefferson claimed in "Hat Trick."
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#416

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 10:21 PM

There was talk in the finale episode thread about the romantic relationships on the series, which got me thinking. A lot of the couplings on this show in the Fairy Tale lands, the romantic couple was only shown with a few conversations to convince the viewers that they were in love. To me, it was hit and miss depending on whether I felt the actors had romantic chemistry and whether they looked compatible, so it felt superficial.

For example, I liked Red and Peter's relationship since I liked Peter. Whereas the Regina/Daniel ending didn't move me since I didn't warm to the actor playing Daniel. Overall, I liked Grumpy/Nova and Kathryn/Frederick was in between. Cinderella/Prince was probably the worst in terms of chemistry, though I liked them more by the Valentine's Day episode. In some ways, I guess I don't mind this since in most Fairy Tales, it is love at first sight and often marriage immediately after. But another part of me wished they did a little more development.

Regarding the Snow/Charming and Belle/Rumple relationships:

From the episode thread:

I completely agree, Rumpel and Belle know each other better than basically every other couple on the show. She lived in his house, they spoke every day with only each other for company. Sure we didn't see every moment they spent together, but they did happen. Meanwhile Snow and Charming met one time and were suddenly rushing off to save and 'find' one another.


I was disappointed too that they didn't have Snow and Charming meet a few times first before falling in love.

But I'm not sure I saw Rumple and Belle as knowing each other that well. They were spending time with each other but in a circumstance which wasn't natural and where they would both be guarded and not fully themselves... Belle was in essence a prisoner, and while Rumple did let down more walls than he would normally have, it was still way more than arms length. Whereas Snow and Charming met in a natural setting, as equals, and they had less to hide from each other and exchanged more words with one another.
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#417

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 10:48 PM

The Beauty/Beast, Belle/Rumple situation is complex. Yes, Belle is a prisoner, but she chose to go with Rumple and agreed to do so of her own free will. Rumple also agreed to let her go. They developed some trust between the two of them. I can't remember why.. but at the time we figured Belle had been in his home several months; which is more than most of the fairytale couples took to fall in love.


metaphysicist: I thought Charming's hostility in the forest in the finale was a bit off. Yeah.. seeing Rumple is rarely a 'good' sign.. but, although Charming didn't realize it at the time, Regina had put him in a forest he could not escape from .. he kept coming back to the same spot. Rumple did him a favor (in exchange for a favor) by getting him out of Regina's trap.
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#418

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 10:55 PM

They developed some trust between the two of them. I can't remember why.. but at the time we figured Belle had been in his home several months


That's because Belle says so. She opens the scene where Rumple lets her go with, "So I've had a few months to look around..."

If Enchanted Lands seasons run the same as our seasons, then I'd say they were together for three months and some change. It was winter when Belle arrived at the castle, and it was almost spring when she left.

Edited by oldandnewfirm, May 16, 2012 @ 10:56 PM.

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#419

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 11:14 PM

Cinderella/Prince was probably the worst in terms of chemistry, though I liked them more by the Valentine's Day episode.

I thought they were the worst simply because neither could act to save their lives. It was literally painful to sit through the first Cinderella episode. By the time the V-Day episode rolled around, however, someone had given them both acting lessons, and they were tolerable; Cinderella in particular was much better, which made me wonder if he'd actually dragged her down in the first episode, because goodness, he really was a block of wood. It probably didn't hurt that he was in the V-Day episode for like ten seconds total (or at least that's all I can remember him in). To be fair to the show's other couples, though, Snow and Charming have chemistry like burning, and pretty much set an impossible standard for any other couple to match.

I do think Rumple and Belle have chemistry, but it's of a different sort than Snow/Charming; Rumple and Belle are a couple whose romance was/is very much rooted in friendship, and I think that comes across pretty clearly. Whereas Snow and Charming, whatever else, were never ever just friends!

(I do have to say I love the Charming-Abigail friendship, and I hope we see that developed, both in Fairytale Land and Storybrooke.)

Edited by stealinghome, May 16, 2012 @ 11:15 PM.

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#420

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 7:14 AM

I think the couple with the best chemistry was Jiminy's parents! Hahaha! ;)
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