166 replies to this topic

[TWoP Howard]

From TWoP and ZAP2it:

Jax is confronted with a challenge that threatens his family and his club.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Dec 5, 2011 @ 11:21 AM.

[CharmCity04]

I bow down to Tara. Like Tina Fey once said "Bitches get stuff done". She just became the new Gemma and it was a beautiful sight.

That scene between Katey and Charlie was so amazing. Charlie did not have to say anything and yet his looks were so powerful. I mean, did he even blink?

Everyone turning loose and not giving a shit? First Juice, then Tara, now Tig.

[IdesOfSmarch]

Damn, Tara comes prepared. She was chilling in this episode and I sure as hell would never cross her.

[SnowFox]

Damn, I thought Tara had completely lost it when she told Gemma to tell her she loved her, then at the end, Tara telling Jax how to kill Clay. Now, I don't know what to think.

Opie, "Yeah, that's what I need another promise." Opie has Jax's number. Also, Jax still a hypocrit. Now Clay has to die?

I loved how calm Happy was.

Tig, great Jax and Clay's latest lie leads to Tig starting a war with the Niners. {face palm}

Romeo? What is going on with this guy?

I love this season.

Clay needs to die, but I wish Opie had been the one to kill him.

Edited by SnowFox, Nov 29, 2011 @ 11:12 PM.

[Amester0120]

Tara just out-Gemma'd Gemma. Well played.

[Nightmare Logic]

Nightmare Logic's opening thoughts:

Tig should really avoid pulling hits, he is really bad at it....his bullets always seem to hit chicks.

So is the Cartel guy lying to Jax or should he ask for his "lots of money" back because Otto so did rat?

Gemma is one bad mother. She was scary in all her scenes...scary good. Loved her scene at the table with Jax but she really shined with Tara.

Speaking of Tara.....the student has become the teacher... "He's mine." I got chills. She really has come a long way in her Gemmafication, hasn't she? Giving Jax the way to kill Clay.

Best part of the episode were the scenes between Gemma and Tara and Gemma and Jax. Oh I also got chills when Tara told Gemma to tell her she loved her...and she did. Chills.

Edited by Nightmare Logic, Nov 29, 2011 @ 11:11 PM.

[CharmCity04]

Tara came so prepared and she read Gemma like a book. I was clapping when she pulled out the syringe and told them her plan. Quick and leaves no evidence.

Move over Gemma, new Queen in town.

[Ganymedeone]

Tara's 'Because I'm smarter than you, and I know Jax better than you do." was SO well delivered. And Maggie's hair looked great in the final scene!

[Devon Rose]

I bow down to the awesomeness of Tara! Well played!

Edited by Devon Rose, Nov 29, 2011 @ 11:16 PM.

[Critic55]

Awesome!

Who the hell was Jax talking to when he was walking away from Chibs (I think) and said he was going to check Clay's schedule before the meet? Was he wired? Talking to himself? Most strange.

[swampy]

Tara just became the best character on this show.

What a fantastic build-up to next week. Sutter really has his shit together this year.

[ShakeYerBoobs]

Wow. "I'm smarter than you, Gemma."

I still don't trust Gemma.

Tig, what the heck were you thinking? Go kill the first black people you could find? Didn't really think that one through, did you?

Some of the dialog I didn't catch, so I'm going to have to watch the rebroadcast.

I only started watching this season (thank you, RHCP) but I think I'm pretty well caught up on the story line, and of course I've read all the pages on it on this site. It seems to me the underlying theme/motif is "unintended consequences". In tonight's episode, I wonder about the photo that Gemma purposely left out in plain sight in the storage area.

[Autumnslumbers]

Jax read the letters, FUCKING FINALLY. Albeit Gemma took out some very important information, but at least Jax is 75% informed about all the shit that going on around him instead of making all kinds of promises with 1/3 of the intel. I am confused as to why he didn't question Gemma's role in the whole mess more. In his situation, I feel as though I would ask one very important question, if you knew Clay killed your husband, why in the ever loving fuck would you marry him, allowing him to cockold the man he killed?

If Tara believes that Gemma is going to let Jax go without a fight she is dumber than I thought. Unless Tara has a stockpile of copies of the letters somewhere, she has no proof that Gemma had anything to do with JT's death. I also still can't believe that these two fools believe that Jax will be able to walk away from the club after brokering a deal with the Mexican cartel let alone murdering the standing member of the club. Does Jax think crazy-eyed Opie will be able to shut his trap about Clay having a hand in killing his wife and father?

Tara and Gemma's manipulations of Jax are really disgusting. They are treating him like a slow witted child who can only process small bits of information at a time not a grown ass man. I love that Tara said she was doing what Gemma taught her, but obviously, due to the fact that she is dumber than a box of rocks, Tara didn't note what an awesome and fulfilling life that lying about everything got Gemma.

I'm interested to see how LaRoi and the Niners get revenge on SAMCRO. Why exactly did they think it was a good idea to blame it on the Niners? Why not just put everything on that other cartel and not risk starting a huge beef with the Niners?

[CharmCity04]

Man, there are few things I know about Tig: He is scared shitless of dolls, loves having sex, and he apparently loves ambushing someone and killing their girl.

Fucking with Laroy and the Niners was so stupid.

[Critic55]

I figure they put it on the Niners because they didn't want to upset the Irish who are already concerned about the cartel troubles.

[wonder1859]

Everyone on this show is all kinds of fucked up right now. Well, with the exception of Happy, who's just ... happy.

Jax's eyes in the scene with Gemma and the letters gave me chills.

Finally, after four seasons, I gained some respect for Tara tonight. Her "He's mine," was all kinds of awesome.

I'll say it: I'm glad Clay survived. Don't know if he'll make it into next season, but I hope so. I'm not quite ready to say good-bye to Clay. Even with two bullets in him, he was scheming with Jax to cover up for Opie shooting him. Gotta love it.

What a pleasure it is to watch this group of actors doing what they do so well.

[bluenote123]

I just have to say, those pictures of young Gemma were stunning. I now understand why men were captivated by her. It was the hair, the attitude, and the eyes. That one photo of her alone captured a look where she was promising someone the world. I didn't get her attraction before, but now, I totally do.

And kudos to Tara. "I'm smarter than you and know him better than you." And the piece de resistance: "He's mine." Git it, girl! But she has to know she and Jax will NEVER leave this bitch. "I would stop (loving you) if I could." And that's why she is going to stay with him and suck it up.

[Egeria]

I love that Tara said she was doing what Gemma taught her, but obviously, due to the fact that she is dumber than a box of rocks, Tara didn't note what an awesome and fulfilling life that lying about everything got Gemma.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Gemma's life is a living hell, why would anyone take their cues from her? If Tara were half as smart as she thinks she is she would have told Jax the whole truth and insisted that they leave town right then and there. If Gemma wants Clay dead so badly she should do it herself. Now they'll be staying in that "poisonous" little town a little longer so that something else horrible can happen and they'll be stuck there forever, assuming they both survive.

[IdesOfSmarch]

If Tara believes that Gemma is going to let Jax go without a fight she is dumber than I thought. Unless Tara has a stockpile of copies of the letters somewhere, she has no proof that Gemma had anything to do with JT's death.

I don't think Tara thinks that at all. From the way she immediately knew Gemma didn't give Jax all the letters, I'd say she's got copies of the letters Gemma took and will keep them as insurance.

I also don't see her manipulating Jax since she's been clear about her motivations and doing whatever it takes to help Jax keep his promise of leaving. What else is she keeping from him other than any possible speculation of Gemma's involvement in JT's death?

[ttfr1]

I knew they wouldn't let Opie kill Clay and I highly doubt they'll let Jax kill Clay, either. I love RP as Clay and he's a great villain but I want him dead so bad and i just know it won't happen. I've been wrong about a lot of my predictions lately so maybe I'll be wrong this time.

Gemma just never stops being a manipulative bitch. Even when telling the 'truth' she lies. Keeping out the letters that incriminated her...didn't want Jax to know that truth, uh, Gemma. She makes this dramatic speech about Clay killing his dad and stealing the club, which, of course, he did but who was the driving force behind that? Gemma. Clay is a grade A piece of shit but so is she. She sees things falling apart and she's about to see her son ride off into the sunset with his family so she uses the things that have terrified her the most to keep him put. Only, she manipulates it to make herself look innocent and all the while she uses the 'truth' in order to convince her son to kill the man she once loved but is now a liability. And, what pisses me off even more is her telling Clay that Opie was gunning for him last ep. Which put Op in danger. Risking Op's life just so she could have this Shakespearean type 'prince kills evil king' shit. BITCH!

Tig Tig Tig Tig! You always goin' off half cocked. Last time you went gunning for a man you thought was a rat you killed his wife. Now you go gunnin' for a man you mistakenly think shot Clay and you kill his wife/gf. tsk tsk

I bet Jax wishes he hadn't interfered with Opie now. That's the thing with these guys. So many secrets and when the truth is found out too much crap has already happened that there's just more crap to wade through. Too little too late and always a dollar short.

Tara has learned well. Gemma 2.0. At least she's using her evil powers of manipulation for good. Or, so it seems.

Why do i get a sick feeling that Clay is going to say something to keep Jax from killing him? Like, "I'm your real dad' (which I don't think is the case and if that happens I'll throw up) or fill Jax in on Gemma's involvement with JT's murder.

[CharmCity04]

I love how Happy is the least fucked up out of anyone. Shit, he is still the same "happy" guy wanting to kill someone a lot.

I bet that girl with Laroy was his sister. I could see that setting up a season 5 storyline where its Niners vs Sons. Laroy getting his revenge.

Edited by CharmCity04, Nov 29, 2011 @ 11:49 PM.

[watchergirl]

Watching this season, I seriously can't believe this is the same show that crapped the bed last year with that horrible Belfast storyline. This is one of the best things on TV right now. Good Lord.

Gemma! I love you! You're awful and manipulative, but girl, you're good. And I guess it's a testament to the acting that most of me wants her to get away with it. I mean, I know she's clearly about as guilty as Clay in this mess, but I never doubt that she loves the shit out of her family and the club. And part of me really wants someone to tell Tara that Gemma should NOT be her role model. Because there's nothing that way for her but heartbreak and crazy. Well done, Show, on the totally epic doomed feeling for her character though - we all know she's never ever getting out of Charming, unless she finds the stones to leave Jax or dies trying.

I'll miss RP whenever they finally pull the trigger on really offing Clay - but man that has got to go down soon. Though, kudos, for almost making me feel bad about the whole thing when Gemma told Tig it wasn't his fault and he started crying.

Also, a truly shallow confession, I ship Gemma and Unser SO hard.

[Autumnslumbers]

I don't think Tara thinks that at all. From the way she immediately knew Gemma didn't give Jax all the letters, I'd say she's got copies of the letters Gemma took and will keep them as insurance.

I also don't see her manipulating Jax since she's been clear about her motivations and doing whatever it takes to help Jax keep his promise of leaving. What else is she keeping from him other than any possible speculation of Gemma's involvement in JT's death?

That's a pretty big deal though, knowing that your mom had something to do with plotting your father's death. If Tara were half as smart as she thinks she is, like Egeria said, she would tell the whole truth. Half truths and manipulations have done nothing but destroy the club and all the relationships surrounding it. Attempting to keep Gemma from interfering with their attempts to leave Charming--which, let's be honest, won't work--by blackmailing her with letters claiming she has something to do with the death of her first husband and keeping all this information from Jax is, imo, manipulation. A stupid form of it at that simply because I think if Jax knew everything he would be more likely to high tail it out of Charming.

Nice touch to see dumbass Tig running off to Ninerland because of 'two black guys in an SUV'. He should know that's always a lie.

I can't believe I missed that callback to Donna's death. SAMCRO, scapegoating black guys in SUVs since 2008.

Edited by Autumnslumbers, Nov 29, 2011 @ 11:58 PM.

[thatguy01]

Nice touch to see dumbass Tig running off to Ninerland because of 'two black guys in an SUV'. He should know that's always a lie.

[Amester0120]

I'd like to know what Tig did to earn his Sergeant-at-Arms patch. Because he's actually pretty awful at killing people.

[Egeria]

I mean, I know she's clearly about as guilty as Clay in this mess, but I never doubt that she loves the shit out of her family and the club.

Oh, I think perhaps she's more guilty than Clay. Sort of like the way the person who hires an assasin is at least as guilty as the assassin. Look at the way she pointed Jax at Clay. She manipulated him perfectly into being her hit-man. I think she did the exact same thing to Clay.

I'm not the biggest Tara fan, but I felt for her tonight. At one point I actually thought she might kill herself she seemed so dejected. She's let Jax and Gemma drag her right down into the mud. She's gone from saving lives to being a conspirator to drug trafficking and murder. Not to mention keeping her children in harms way because she just can't help loving Jax (gag me). At least Jax never really meant for things to get this out of control. Gemma is the true puppet master as I see it. I can hardly believe she betrayed Tara by trying to get Jax to take over that godforsaken club when she nearly had Gemma's grand babies to safety (maybe).

Edited by Egeria, Nov 30, 2011 @ 12:03 AM.

[Devon Rose]

also don't see her manipulating Jax since she's been clear about her motivations and doing whatever it takes to help Jax keep his promise of leaving. What else is she keeping from him other than any possible speculation of Gemma's involvement in JT's death?

I agree. And call me jaded but I think it was a smart decision on her part. She knows he was going to kill Clay and this is her way of making sure that he still keeps his promise to her to get out which is what he's been saying he wants to do all season long.

[marleyfan]

Just a little snark. Loved the episode, but when Tig needed an 'escort' home, where did all the man power come from? Juice and Bobby are gone, Opie's laying low..there were alot of bikes there. So, Jax has violated parole by leaving the scene of an accident and stealing a motorcycle last week, and firing a gun through stopped traffic this week. Shouldn't this be catching up with him?

[ttfr1]

I don't think Tara thinks that at all. From the way she immediately knew Gemma didn't give Jax all the letters, I'd say she's got copies of the letters Gemma took and will keep them as insurance.

I also don't see her manipulating Jax since she's been clear about her motivations and doing whatever it takes to help Jax keep his promise of leaving. What else is she keeping from him other than any possible speculation of Gemma's involvement in JT's death?

She's manipulating Gemma. Gemma knows that Tara knows about her involvement in JT's death. Surely Gemma realizes that if she were to try and stop Jax from leaving that Tara could just tell Jax that she was involved. Tara probably wouldn't even need letters to prove to Jax that Gemma was involved. Jax knows that his mom is a user that plays people to get what she wants. He even asked her how long she'd known about Clay's murdering his dad. When she said she just found out he didn't look all that convinced. Tara has Gemma right where she wants her. She might want to watch out, though. Gemma might put a hit out on her, too :)

As for copies of the letters, Unser burned the copies. I wonder if they were the only ones Tara made. Remember she was going to give the copies to Margaret for safe keeping but when she opened the envelope, they were just blank sheets of paper. Why would she need to give them to Margaret for safe keeping if she had back ups?

As for Tara manipulating jax, the whole time she had those letters and didn't give them to Jax was manipulating him. As a matter of fact because she kept them from him Piney was killed and she got her hand crushed. If she'd given them to Jax immediately after he got out of prison things may have worked out a lot better. Jax would have been pissed and gunning for Clay but Piney would still be alive and Tara's hand would still be 100% and Jax would know all the evil crap his mom is really capable of and there would have been no one to stop him from leaving the beautiful town of Charming.

[missysimpson]

Tig is so stupid. Now you have started a war with the Niners, and killed an innocent woman. The Sons have to be some of the dumbest criminals I know. They never think anything through. In the real world, this club would not have lasted as long as they have. They make too many idiotic mistakes.

Jax is as pretty as he is dumb. I was shaking my head at how easily he was manipulated by the women in his life.

Gemma just cannot stop lying. She is so devious.

Tara is BOSS! This is one of the first times that she seemed strong to me. Watch your back Gemma because there is a new queen in town.

I don't know how this show is going to be if they decide to kill Clay this season. Ron Perlman is an excellent actor, and he is one of the strongest actors of the entire cast. He can really hold a scene on his own.

I don't know where Kurt Sutter is taking this show. Everything seems so final. I'm interested in seeing how he can produce more seasons when it seems like so many main characters are being exposed.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 30, 2011 @ 6:43 AM.
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