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2-7: "Pretty Much Dead Already" 2011.11.27


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#1

TWoP Tennison

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 8:02 PM

Secrets are told and revealed; Hershel refuses to acknowledge the world's new reality; Andrea comes out of her shell; everything is food for something.



Remember to keep it on topic, everyone. The thread moves quickly and we want everyone to be able to read and join in the discussion. That's harder when people don't talk about this specific episode.

#2

Doom

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:01 PM

Finally! They found Sophia! This entire episode was a boring waste, save the last 10 minutes. Dear AMC, jamming in a shooting spree and a twist at the end does not mean this episode wasn't almost all bs soap opera garbage.

#3

Blue32

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:01 PM

RIP, Sophia. You...held up the plot for seven episodes? (She was pretty well-preserved as far as walkers go. I guess they didn't fuck up her face too much with makeup so that it would be really obvious it was her.) I really, really wish I hadn't spoiled myself for the reveal, though. Damn you to Hell, IMDB spoilery summaries!

This episode was pretty draggy until the last ten minutes or so, but the payoff was worth it. I was getting a little tired of those conversations where Andrea is all "You're not my dad!" to Dale, or where Hershel is all "They're not walkers, they're people!" and everyone else is all "No, not really."

Wouldn't the noise from all those gunshots attract all the walkers from, like 10 miles around? Wouldn't that tend to negate any strategic advantage from killing walkers who are otherwise safely contained? Just wondering.

The bad acting is really starting to bother me. It's not everyone, but man, it bugs when it bugs.

Edited by Blue32, Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:03 PM.


#4

ReadIshmael

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:02 PM

That final sequence was pretty fantastic; the managed to make an action sequence pretty loaded with pathos and interesting character moments. There wasn't a ton I liked in the rest of the episode, other than Maggie kind of redeeming himself and Shane still being entertainingly terrifying, but the ending made this a great episode by itself.

#5

Jadiem

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:02 PM

All of these characters suck, and I'm fine with them all dying.

#6

Tiznowbaby

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:02 PM

Wow. That was sort of gut wrenching. Shane's a big man right up 'til it's time to take the toughest shot.

#7

SDcat2009

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:02 PM

HOLY CRAP! Now that's what I'm talkin' bout. The last 15 minutes were great!

And Rick is the one that shoots Sophia in the head. AWESOME!

Now can we move off the farm?

#8

john68

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:03 PM

Shane might be a dick but he comes across as the most realistic character on the show.

#9

AimingforYoko

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:03 PM

In the Shane v. Herschel POV, I do side with Shane, but damn if I didn't feel sorry for that crazy old coot. (Except for the part about knowing what happened to Sophia all this time.)
And Dale, it's good to remember some advice from Sgt. Brad "Iceman" Colbert from Generation Kill: "Those that can't kill will always be subject to those who can."

#10

HeadlessOne

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:06 PM

It's not often that I subscribe to anything that comes out of Dale's mouth, but tonight's episode marks that rare exception. Without diving too far into old wounds, what affected me most about Otis' tragic death was the question that it raised of the value of existence. Yes, Shane's decision saved a life...but at what cost? What is the worth in just living? What is life without higher principle?

Right now, that's all blah blah blah though.

Moving forward with tonight's episode:

Dear God! “Finding” Sophia was one of the most gut-wrenching scenes that this show has ever produced. I can't imagine how it's going to affect her mother's already shaky emotional health let alone Rick's confidence in his capacity for leadership. Also, the entire walker-shooting scene leading up to that point was quite powerfully and superbly executed.

Interesting enough, even though I despise Shane, the subtle exploration of men's reproductive rights in the conversation with Lori forced me to generate a small amount of sympathy for him. I mean, she outright told him that even if it was his genetic material that contributed to the creation of the child he still wouldn't be allowed to be a father in the social/emotional sense. Harsh.

#11

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:06 PM

Man, I don't think I have disliked a character on TV as much as I dislike Carol, what a useless, useless woman she was/is. She never once put any serious amount of effort into finding Sophia but left it all to everyone else.

Ugh.

Regardless, the last few minutes of this episode were amazing!

#12

rosenho

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:07 PM

Man, all of these people are awful people. I'm not sure why I should root for any of them. They act like they're entitled to Hershel's farm, which makes sense for a sociopath like Shane, but the rest of them? They've found other farms nearby. There's no lack of empty ones. Why does absolutely no one (except for Hershel!) realize they could take one that's empty, make it secure, and have their own little garrison where no one else's rules will constrain them?

He asked them to leave the barn alone. They didn't. He asked them to let him take care of the walkers. They didn't. I mean, what kind of soulless people stand there and watch Shane tear open a barn they know is full of monsters that the people in the house still consider people... and then just treat it like a shooting gallery? Even Carl! Let's shoot up mom and cousin Bob in front of their still-living loved ones.

Ugh. All of our so-called heroes are terrible people.

#13

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:07 PM

Damn.

Shane's spiral downward into a complete feral state is so awesome to watch. I hate Shane, but I find him interesting and unpredictable and he makes for great TV. As much as I want him dead, I also want him to stick around to add some much needed unyielding aggression into this show. Bravo, Jon Bernthal. On the other hand, I find myself getting a little annoyed with Andrew Lincoln's acting choices. Rick is always running 8,000rpm, even in the calmest of scenes. Maybe he's trying to portray the stress that Rick is under but for me it's getting old and kind of distracting.

Good episode. I can't wait until February!

#14

snoozy

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:09 PM

Well... I've really and truly understood where Shane was coming from all along up until today. But why in the heck OPEN THE DAMN BARN DOOR!?? For some reason attacking Lori I could understand, given the stress that he'd been under and how she treated when Rick came back, and I think that it's the second worst thing he'd done. I got why he shot Otis to save his own skin in the heat of the moment. But to deliberately let the walkers out? Dumb, man, dumb. Many better ways to deal with the contents of that barn that weren't so dangerous. Now he's really and truly gone off the deep end.

#15

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:10 PM

I was so hoping Dale would pulll that trigger right affter Shane shot Dale.

One of those two has got to go. Actually if both left it would be great. Both of them are turning into dicks.

#16

MarWar

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:10 PM

OMFG. I feel like I've been walloped in the stomach. I thought they'd find Sophia and that she'd be a zombie, but not that she'd been "rescued" by Hershel's crew and was already in the damn barn. Did not see that one coming.

It was fitting that Rick had to be the one to shoot her. Poor Sophia, poor Rick, and most of all poor Carol.

Shane is a seething mass of crazy, but Dale was spot-on: Shane's the right psycho for a psychotic world.

I think Hershel is not long for this world, and I really fear that Carol is not either. Really hope that Daryl can keep her from killing herself.

#17

Lillywhite

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:11 PM

Shane... ugh, you're the worst. And when Dale gave his hat to Glenn, I thought to myself, "welp, say goodbye to your life, Dale." I think if the circumstances were a bit different, Shane totally would've killed Dale.

Speaking of Dale, why can't he just freaking be honest? Why not tell Andrea, "Shane shot Otis and he threatened to kill me. I'm concerned he's going to hurt you, too. That's all I'm gonna say. Do with that information whatever you want." Why just throw a massive creeper dad tantrum instead of just telling her?

Daryl has some issues that he needs to maybe resolve on his own. Carol had already given up hope but he just dragged her back only to have her heart shattered again. I love him, but his obsession with finding Sophia was starting to grate.

It's, like... the van left without the actor who plays T-Bone and he had to hitchhike to set to be in the final 3 minutes. I mean, for real.

Sophia... eh, I don't know. I'm just glad someone died. I hate how so many people (I'm looking at you, Shane) are still alive.

I don't know what Glenn sees in Maggie. She's freaking insane.

I need to go and collect my thoughts because this post makes no sense lol. I'm still a bit jumpy.

#18

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:12 PM

The actresses who play Andrea and Lori have this annoying way of standing in their low slung jeans, with their arms at their sides, giving attitude and looking very hip and model-y and not like they are staring death or walkers in the face.

#19

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:12 PM

RIP, Sophia. You...held up the plot for seven episodes? (She was pretty well-preserved as far as walkers go. I guess they didn't fuck up her face too much with makeup so that it would be really obvious it was her.) I really, really wish I hadn't spoiled myself for the reveal, though.

I didn't have to, I knew it in my guts since the moment Daryl found her doll near the river.

A little girl would've never left her only doll like that unless she was a little girl no more. Not to mention, a walker almost ate Daryl, so the odds are Sophia never made it past the first night anyway.

Edited by agora, Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:18 PM.


#20

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:12 PM

Jon Bernthal pulled off one hell of a performance as we watched Shane essentially become unhinged. He did such a good job that I was already in tears as I watched him go all Jack Torrance on the farm entrance.

That was so damn painful to watch and I just have to say the only thing that can be said: F**K Shane. He's all big talk throwing daggers at each and every person on that field (pointing out that the search for Sophia was stupid because she was probably dead might have been accurate but man was it a total a**hole move) but when it comes down to it, his a** didn't step up to the plate to send Sophia to her resting place. Andrea did it, Rick did it.

Dale was right on with it not being worth it to go to sh*t with the world.

In summary: nothing really happened up until the last 10 minutes but, man, that last 10 minutes got to me. I hate Shane, love Rick and Lori is still too bug-eyed for my liking but everyone else? Great, great acting and storytelling. So ready for it to be February already.

#21

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:13 PM

And Rick is the one that shoots Sophia in the head. AWESOME!

It had to be Rick. This entire episode was the evolution of his character, he's no longer the naive Sheriff who views the world as it once was but has finally seen it for what it is. I don't know where the show goes from here but I'm guessing this is the start of Rick emerging as a true leader.

If I'm supposed to view Shane as the evil/bad guy here I just can't. Knowing how dangerous those things were keeping them in a barn and thinking they'd be safe was just foolish. I also can't side with Dale in the swamp conversation...dude taking away the weapons needed to protect the group was just asinine. While I can except a individuals right to protect their soul/identity Dale just came off as sanctimonious when he was acting superior to Shane in that conversation. My opinion of Dale continues to sink with each episode, I don't like the way he treats Andrea at all.

As for Lori, I tried to like her, I was even on her side in the Maggie/Lori showdown last week but I just find this whole living in a delusion and pretending that it's OK to cut Shane out of his potential babies life b/c she wants to play perfect little family as annoying. Is it the perfect situation? Hell no, but at least tackle it like an adult and have a nice sit down, and try to figure out how to keep all potential parents involved in the child's life.

I liked Andrea's comment about not wanting to feel like a victim. All in all a good episode, the only time I felt it dragged was the Maggie/Glenn scenes.

On a shallow note...Shane was a total BAMF when he turned around and shot the Walker Rick was herding...I actually laughed at how casual it was.

#22

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:15 PM

He asked them to leave the barn alone. They didn't. He asked them to let him take care of the walkers. They didn't. I mean, what kind of soulless people stand there and watch Shane tear open a barn they know is full of monsters that the people in the house still consider people... and then just treat it like a shooting gallery? Even Carl! Let's shoot up mom and cousin Bob in front of their still-living loved ones.

It was disgusting of them. And they all got a huge taste of their own medicine when none of them could shoot Sophia when she came out of the barn. After all, she was a "person" to them. I wonder if this will change their perception of walkers for now on. Of course, now their biggest obstacle is going to be Hersel who's going to be a crazy, unstable mess. Way to go, Shane. God I hate him. Great actor, though.

Edited by cerealboxkiller, Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:19 PM.


#23

OliveColored

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:16 PM

It's really starting to bother me that these people go out into the woods or zombie-wranglin' with bare arms, necks, and faces. I mean really, it's hard to impossible for even a non-decomposing jaw to bite through a jacket. Cover up!

#24

minamurray78

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:16 PM

Well, that was expected, and yet I feel bad for Sophia. And Carol and Daryl, he really believed they'd find her ok.
Hershel you totally suck for having kept that little girl in there all the time, while her mother was crying next door, and others (mainly Daryl) were risking their lives to find her. He & his people had to know she was in there, or at the least, make sure once they learned they were looking for a kid.
I mean, he was going to kick them out knowing Carol would never find out what was of her? Nice.

#25

CheshrKat

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:17 PM

Well... I've really and truly understood where Shane was coming from all along up until today. But why in the heck OPEN THE DAMN BARN DOOR!?? For some reason attacking Lori I could understand, given the stress that he'd been under and how she treated when Rick came back, and I think that it's the second worst thing he'd done. I got why he shot Otis to save his own skin in the heat of the moment. But to deliberately let the walkers out? Dumb, man, dumb. Many better ways to deal with the contents of that barn that weren't so dangerous. Now he's really and truly gone off the deep end.


That was Shane's larger scale version of the kind of tough-love training that he gave Andrea when learning to shoot. He was trying to force Rick (and all of the others) to take his position, and no better way than to unleash a barn full of walkers and then let them decide - shoot or be eaten.

I really like Daryl, but I hate that he's been paired with Carol, because she annoys me like no one else on the show. She's such a limp dishrag with no personality.

#26

jthomas666

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:18 PM

1. I found myself rooting for Dale to pull the trigger.
2. Lori is the most useless character in the bunch--and yes, that includes Carol.
3. Nice to see that Glenn is regrowing a pair.
4. Almost felt sorry for Herschel--right up until Sophia came out. He knew where she was the entire time and let them continue to go out on searches. Even if he had never been shown a picture of Sophia, simply the timeline was such that he had to know that it was probably Sophia.
5. In retrospect, they crammed ~5.5 episodes of actual plot and character development into 7 episodes.

#27

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:18 PM

He asked them to leave the barn alone. They didn't. He asked them to let him take care of the walkers. They didn't. I mean, what kind of soulless people stand there and watch Shane tear open a barn they know is full of monsters that the people in the house still consider people... and then just treat it like a shooting gallery? Even Carl! Let's shoot up mom and cousin Bob in front of their still-living loved ones.


Because they know Heschel can't do it himself. It's his own ex-family. But they can't let the farmer keeps them like that. Those zombies can endanger anyone who happen to pass by and take a rest as evidenced by Sophia. I'm sorry but they are no longer people when they are already turned into zombies. That world is no longer the kind of world where sappy sentimentalism for what once was family members is needed. That kind of mentalism will just endanger everyone else.

#28

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:19 PM

I thought it was rather poetic that Daryl grabbed Carol before she could (probably) get herself made into zombie chow via Sophia.

I am not sure that I would not have shot Shane right the hell down if I would've been Rick. I seriously think a shot in the gut for him would help.

I'm undecided on Glenn joining in on the shooting - I know it made sense via his talk with Maggie earlier, but I don't see how he could've done that in front of her. I would've thought he would have shielded her from the onslaught and just kept an eye to make sure no walkers got near.

This will provide a great catalyst for Rick re: whether or not bringing a baby into this world (or, for that matter, having let Carl survived) is a smart thing to do.

#29

crazyheart33

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:19 PM

Tell me please, that this does not mean another six episodes of Carol crying because I. really. can't. take. it.

Daryl, I'm starting to hate you for putting up with it.

#30

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Posted Nov 27, 2011 @ 10:20 PM

Watching Hershel's reaction to the walkers being shot was pretty gut-wrenching. As well as everyone's reaction to Sophia. I knew from spoilers what was going to happen, but it didn't really prepare me for seeing it. Shane said that Rick wasn't made for this world, but when the time came, it was Rick who stepped up to shoot Sophia. I kinda liked Shane's "fight to live" reaction, but I don't agree with taking over someone's farm. There must be lots of other places they could go to.