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Season 4's New Context: "It Is Impossible"


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#451

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 7:53 AM

Add me to one of those who completely rejects the notion that Peter is already home in the Amberverse. Unlike Lost where there's one specific timeline that will course correct if there is any interference, Fringe established early on that every choice leads to a different reality in the multiverse.
If Olivia's life history is different by 40 percent, then this counts as another reality.
If Marshell Bowman went from an undercover cop to a cult member, then he is not the same person as before.
September telling Peter that he's already home simply means there is NOTHING Peter can do about getting back to normal, so the writers made this revelation more platable by bringing Blue Olivia into the Amberverse.

I'm sure most Fringe fans will agree that writing Henry out is a major improvement!

I don't. For me I just see this as cowardice on the part of the writers. Why even bother with huge, dramatic storyline like Broyles dying and Fauxlivia's pregnancy when they'll just get retconned later? Why don't the writers wrap these stories up properly instead of going thee. lazyiest. route. possible. by having these stories solve themselves off-screen?

Despite the controversy over the direction of this season, it has produced two absolutely classic episodes, namely "One Night in October" and "Letters of Transit". Oddly, both episodes were missing one of the leads, though their absence was certainly felt.

For me the most enjoyable episodes this season where the ones that mostly ignored the rather rubbish Peter storyline, instead focusing on the continuing the strongest elements from season three, like the reb/blue universes joining forces in One Night in October, Everything In Its Right Place and The Consultant.
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#452

Money Magnet

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 8:00 AM

Why even bother with huge, dramatic storyline like Broyles dying and Fauxlivia's pregnancy when they'll just get retconned later?


How can it be a retcon if one of the characters (Peter) experienced it and remembers it?
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#453

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 8:14 AM

Given the dearth of interesting storylines that came from it, Peter's knowledge of these events counts for soooo little, and was totally not worth them rewriting three entire years worth stories and the dozen episodes it took for them just to get (mostly) back to the status quo.
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#454

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 8:21 AM

I don't think the stories were retconned. Henry's birth happpened, alt-Broyles sacrifice and death happened. This set up the machine being activated, the events of the black universe, and Peters sacrifice in erasing himself and bringing the amber verse into existence. The science behind how Olivia's blue consciousness bled through into the amber verse has never bothered me. Seriously, Peter had been through a lot and he needed a break. I really liked how they 'found' each other. Retconning for me would have been if he got back into the machine and went back to the blue verse and all the existing problems with the red universe and that version of walternate. Peters's sacrifice had great cost to Walter, Olivia too--but it served a purpose.

One thing I love about fringe is that this has been a linear story. Think of the journey that Peter has made, for example. He has come a long way from the sarcastic, lonely con man that he once was. And yet that wasn't a rewrite, but part of the history that he and Olivia have lived together. This is part of their joint history (and Olivia forgetting the amber memories does not bother me).

The hug at the end of the episode between Peter and Henrietta illustrates this as well. Because even though we haven't seen these 4 years before the ambering, it was CLEAR that they had a history and a profound father-daughter love. I had no problems seeing their connection from their history, and both of their connection to Olivia (who hopefully isnt dead), even though it was never written out and shown on screen. She was the right Henry, the one born to blue Olivia and Red Peter.
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#455

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 10:29 PM

She was the right Henry,


I'm really hoping that this isn't an idea that we, the audience, are supposed to embrace. It's so...callous, I think. This show has made it very clear throughout that the dopplegangers, despite their genetic and other similarities, are unique individuals with the right to exist on their own. Neither Olivia is the "right" Olivia; they are both right in their own ways. This is why it was shown as wrong for one universe to wipe out the other, why it was wrong for Walter to conflate RedPeter with "his" Peter, and why such a distinction has been made between "timelines" and "universes" this season (BlueOlivia IS AmberOlivia with different memories; RedOlivia is a seperate person entirely). Henrietta's existence does not make Henry's erasure (a kind of murder, really) morally acceptable to me or by the logic that the show has been pushing for the past four seasons. Both Henry and Henrietta deserve to exist.

It strikes me as very strange that Peter has not shown even a hint of wanting to get his son back since he found out about him. Instead we saw him reunite with a brand new kid--a well acted and powerful scene, to be sure, but still odd and uncomfortable considering he hasn't shown any sense of loss or anger over his son being erased from time. This makes me worry that the writers are wanting us to think "Oh, Henrietta is alive, so it's all OK." That's cold Observer logic. Henry needs to come back in some way, or at the very least, the injustice of his loss needs to be acknowledged.

Edited by Fat Elvis 007, Apr 23, 2012 @ 10:36 PM.

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#456

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 11:45 PM

I see where you're coming from and certainly agree that there is no "right" Olivia (although there is always a "best" for me, our original, but that's unrelated to how she should really be regarded as a person), but mostly I just take it as September not entirely being able to phrase his words in a...nice way? Just that this child, born to this woman was going to Lead to Very Bad Things. It's difficult for me to defend the thought, though, as I was never on board with the pregnancy, and never softened toward Faux when he was born. I didn't feel any particular connection to him, even as Peter's child. I feel quite a bit different about Faux now, but it certainly affected how I felt *then*. And anyway, I think Peter is well aware that Henry simply can't exist anymore. There's just no way Peter/Faux will happen and they only DID because Faux was undercover and was placed in a rather awkward position (well, she let Newton egg her on about it). It does make me wonder if she was named Henrietta as a combination of Henry the cab driver and Henry the lost son (yeah, yeah, also due to cab driver ;p)...and what, if anything, Peter told Olivia about the former.
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#457

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 2:27 AM

Well, Peter was pretty clearly affected by Henry's former existence when he found out about him. I'm going to take Peter's apparent lack of acknowledgement of the loss afterwards to be a combination of 1.) having lot being on his plate over the last few episodes both good and bad, 2.) knowing there's likely nothing he can do about it, and 3.) not knowing how to process the loss of a child he never met and didn't even know existed. I don't think he would view Henrietta as replacement though, but rather as a new, separate person.

And while I'd argue the Peter/alt-Olivia pairing was wrong, that can't really be held against the child. Henry was erased because he somehow, directly or indirectly, would lead to bad things for the rest of multiverse. Which is awful, but awful things happen whether or not people deserve them. I don't think Henry "deserves" to exist any more than alt-Lincoln deserves to come back to life. Peter didn't really "deserve" to come back either, for any other reason than the laws of the multiverse somehow let him (well, and because he's one of the main characters of the show).
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#458

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Posted Apr 24, 2012 @ 9:10 AM

I think the fact that they named their daughter the unfashionable name of Henrietta clearly indicates that someone had Henry in mind. He is gone, or never-was, but is not forgotten.
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#459

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Posted May 4, 2012 @ 11:44 AM

Riffing on something MM said in the "Fringe vs Other Shows" thread...

Fringe is about a lot of things, but there are also things it is NOT about, and the writers have been consistent in that. The writers are uninterested in exploring "faith vs. science," for example. Never an avenue they really went down, except maybe one obscure season 1 episode. And then virtually the only thing Walter doesn't believe in: "There's no such thing as ghosts." So we can take that as a firm sign that the world of Fringe does not include a supernatural realm. Just pointing this out to show that "anything goes" is not what Fringe does. (Practically everything goes, but not everything.)


Arguably, the first part of Season 4 is a "reverse ghost story." You had Peter haunting Walter at the lab, and being all Incubus-y with Olivia in her dreams. But instead of having a seance and telling the ghost to "go toward the light" they brought him back into the physical world.

And it always amuses me, when people who claim to believe in a deity/creator (as Walter clearly does) deny the possibility of ghosts.
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#460

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 4:36 PM

I am a little confused. Why should I care about any of these characters? Are any of them besides Peter the same characters as the ones we met in season 1? I understand Olivia has gotten those memories but is that enough? So one person remembers the Peter that the audience watched for 3 seasons? So this isn't really our Walter or our Astrid and its up for debate whether its our Olivia. Why should I care about these people? Or have I completely missed some explanation?
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#461

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 5:01 PM

If a loved one of yours loses their memory of you are they still your love ones, or are they now strangers? It's a question that Fringe asks in it's own unique way.
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#462

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 5:41 PM

It's helpful to think of the episode "White Tulip." The antagonist in that episode changed the timeline a few different times, which resulted in different experiences for our Fringe team. But Walter, Olivia, Peter and Astrid were still recognized as the same people in spite of the changes.

Of course, those changes were smaller than the ones we've seen this season. While I can understand on a rational level that these are the same characters I know from the first three seasons, they don't always feel the same, and I don't feel connected to them in the same ways I did in the past. I think the writers took a big risk by sticking with the timeline reboot, but it's a risk that I don't think really payed off in the way it should have.

My biggest problem with this season is the way that huge things seem to be getting glossed over. I've already vented my frustration over Peter not giving a whiff about his son who was erased from existence.

And anyway, I think Peter is well aware that Henry simply can't exist anymore.


How does Peter know this? I don't even think we have enough reason to make this conclusion. Peter was brought back, and according to the Observer, it was just because of "love." So did Fauxlivia and Lincoln just not love little Henry as much as Olivia and Walter loved Peter?

Of course, it's been speculated that Olivia's Cortexiphan powers had something to do with Peter's re-emergence, but that's never been confirmed by the show.

The implications of this are just...ugly and depressing, to me. I understand that bad things happen to undeserving people, but this wasn't a natural event; September told Peter that the Observers erased Henry. He should be furious! Wouldn't it be interesting to see Peter try to get Henry back, to parallel Walter's actions that caused everything way back when? "It must be hard to be a father" would then have so much more meaning. Even if Peter eventually concluded that he couldn't get Henry back, it seems callous of him to not even try.

I'm also frustrated because we have no idea what the characters know at this point. Has Peter told Olivia that he had a son with Faux? There's no indication that he has, or that it's even on his mind. How would that knowledge affect her?

Has Peter explained to Walter that this is the universe he belongs to, and that despite Walter's inability to remember, they shared a lot together?

I'd be more OK with the reset if these questions were answered, or if the writers showed any indication that they were even considering the questions. I've never had a problem with Fringe in this regard until this season. Unless the finale totally kicks my ass, then I'm going to have to consider this season a bold experiment, but a failed one nonetheless.
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#463

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 6:24 PM

In a way, Fringe's season finales are never really the season finale - they're the setup for next season - so, in that spirit, I'll count "Worlds Apart" as the real "finale" for Season 4 (kind of like the end of "The Last Sam Weiss" was for Season 3), and weigh in with my Season 4 review now... WARNING: LONG! (Part One of Two!)

Over the summer, I had real reservations about what happened at the very end of Season 3: Peter nonexistent, and the bridge created. While I was going "He never existed? Wha?" like everyone else, I also had some doubts over whether the merged worlds could create compelling but Fringey stories. I couldn't see where they were going to go with that.

I couldn't have been more wrong about that. Not only did the scenario work, but the writers did more with it than I ever dreamed they would. For me, the merged universes - their initial tension, and eventual cooperation and even fond farewell - was the very best aspect of Season 4. The season premiere was good (but Fringe season premieres tend not to be their most spectacular episodes anyway, also true this year), but I thought the 2nd episode "One Night in October" is among the top 5 episodes the show has ever had.

The stuff that gets you in the heart about the whole alternate-universe scenario - the powerful questions about what makes us ourselves, and the sense of longing to live another life - were brilliantly on display in that episode, on multiple levels - with the forensic psychologist (wonderful John Pyper-Ferguson - this year's Michael Eklund), and also with Olivia/Bolivia. The whole premise of "How will the two universes get along?" was set up excellently. I could go on, but I have to leave room for the rest.

The merged universes master storyline proceeded with style and grace in the two post-winter hiatus episodes, "Back to Where You've Never Been" and "Enemy of My Enemy" - it's hard to think of two more satisfying back-to-back episodes on the show unless you go back to Season 2. These episodes helped me tick off my Fringe bucket list - things I wanted to see - Peter with his "mom," Peter with Walternate, the Lincolns, Elizabeth forgiving Walter - again, I could go on. I hadn't been bored by the season up to this point, but if I had been, these episodes surely would have cured that feeling.

They were such good episodes, that anything that came after them could seem not up to par. A good problem for Fringe to have I suppose. I found that once they got the methodical explications of the World Without Peter out of the way this season, and Peter returned, the MOTW/COTW episodes were no more or less necessary than they'd ever been on this show (with two exceptions: I didn't think "Alone in the World" or "Forced Perspective" were particularly noteworthy. I liked "Wallflower," maybe I'm the only one who did.) I appreciate the classical episodic TV art (others call it "anvilicious"?) of foreshadowing, parallels, and weaving master themes together in the COTW episodes, and those episodes did that nicely, but the "monsters" were not particularly imaginative.

Guest stars: aside from the forementioned John P-F, there were Stephen Root and Romy Rosemont, who did a nice job; but a rare misfire with Arye Gross ("Novation") who just didn't leave much impression on me, despite him being a very familiar face.

So much for the first third of the season (skewed by the notorious World Series game that had the effect of giving us the one-two punch of episodes 408 and 409). Onward to the Peter and Olivia romantic arc...

I was never a big Polivia fan (I'm from the Bishopian sect of Fringedom, not the Polivian), but the fake-outs with Olivia, Peter and Lincoln were so obviously just a warmup for the big reunion of our lovers. That said, while these episodes were unfolding, I really wasn't quite sure if they were going to get together in the end. (My big theory of the season was that Yellow Olivia was a shapeshifter! ha) The February Polivia episodes were all high-quality Fringe outings on their own. For me the most interesting and effective parts of these episodes were about Peter's struggle to handle things properly, and Olivia's sense of self being challenged. Neither conflict had a really clear moment of truth because in the end, the magic answer was supplied by September. That felt like a bit of a cop-out, but at this point I think maybe we were just happy to have them finally back. I enjoyed the arc and even became a bit of a Polivia fan from them.

The futzings and fudgings inherent in the resolution of the Polivia arc demonstrate that not even a show as fine as Fringe can stand up to eventual logic erosion. There was more you had to overlook this time around: the mechanics of Olivia's remembering or re-personing seemed fuzzier than they needed to be, for example. The writers dealt with it by not dealing with it, which used to work as a strategy, but as a show gets older and closer to the ends of its mysteries, viewer questioning tends to get sharper. We won't get an explanation of it, so in the end the viewers have to "eat" their questions. Maybe the writers "forgot." (Fan) love does indeed cover a multitude of forgettings, up to a point...

I was anxious for the season to go back "over there" for good reason - because for me (as I said before), it was the merged-universes story that held the master thread of all the seasons together. Lincoln Lee became one of the keys to the merging. Seth Gabel doing well as a regular on the show was the one thing I did not doubt going into Season 4. Never had any expectation that he'd be other than excellent, which he was. So it was very satisfying and not at all off-putting to have him heavily featured at this late point in the season. He was also key to my enjoyment of the odd, but surprisingly enjoyable "Nothing as it Seems" - an episode which flirted with extreme unbelievability, but turned out to be as fun as it aspired to be. Nice surprise: a Season 4 episode which really did achieve Season 1 nostalgia, in a good way. So episodes 416-418, which hovered around DRJ and the altverse, was another mini-run of pretty-good-not-great stories, for me.

To Be Continued...
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#464

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 7:50 PM

I'd be more OK with the reset if these questions were answered, or if the writers showed any indication that they were even considering the questions. I've never had a problem with Fringe in this regard until this season. Unless the finale totally kicks my ass, then I'm going to have to consider this season a bold experiment, but a failed one nonetheless.


This is pretty much where I'm at too. This season's scenario has raised a lot of questions that I don't think have (or will) be satisfyingly answered. Although, one thing I was very pleased with was the addition of Seth Gabel (yet, I'm still a little miffed they killed off RedLincoln).

I'm not looking forward to the next season, either. The final season is rarely the best, and usually the worst.
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#465

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 7:52 PM

And the rest of my long-winded review of Season 4...

Episode 419 brings me to the Observers and how they were handled this year. At the end of Season 3, the Observers suddenly became the most important guys in the room. They were, arguably, Fringe's last big mystery (unless you count the ever-lurking William Bell). And in "The End of All Things," the crucial moment of revelation could have fallen flat - but it absolutely didn't, and I think a lot of other reviewers felt mostly the same. To actually provide an explanation of the Observers - simple and direct: advanced human scientists - shows how mature these writers are, because they could have just kicked that can down the road indefinitely and kept playing them as dea ex machina of the plot, as indefinable angels or gods. Instead, they answered the fucking question. As someone who adores the scientific aspects of Fringe, I was thrilled that the Observers were scientists, and that September, December and the gang were part of what could be thought of as their "Fringe Division."

This is why I found the Observer-dystopia of "Letters of Transit" to not be jarring to the imagination at all. "How did the Observers become like this?" is indeed the unanswered question. As for the episode itself, I found it more interesting as a Season 5 sketch than as an actual hour of TV (although I did enjoy it a lot) - and a very gutsy bold move on the part of the writers, almost a Hail Mary play at a time when a Season 5 was in doubt. I might not have been the only viewer who immediately felt like skipping ahead to Season 5. "Oh, hm, we have this DRJ storyline to wrap up now..."

As for the end of the merged-universe storyline, which was delightful in all ways (to me), the conclusion of "Worlds Apart" had the very special gravitas that Fringe has at its very best. Well done.

Tying up loose ends in this review, I would be remiss if I didn't talk frankly about things I didn't like. Astrid was seriously underused this year; almost irrelevant. If we almost lost Olivia this season, and had to adjust to a slightly different Walter, I'm not sure where "the real Astrid" went to or if she ever really came back. "Making Angels" made up for a good deal of the pushing-aside of Astrid, but she was the character who got pushed aside by making room for an extra person (Lincoln Lee). Her relationship with Peter was totally gone; and her relationship with Walter was kind of dour - she didn't seem to be enjoying herself at all.

There was, also, a slight but worrying tendency for the writers to sacrifice logic and/or continuity for the purpose of creating a moving scene - a tendency I didn't notice last year. Without explaining how Olivia would forget her relationship with Nina, or at least no longer feel the emotional connection of lived memories, we got a very powerful scene between her and Nina which unfortunately was built a little bit on shifting logical sands. There was a touching scene between Walter and Peter involving birthday gifts; but how Walter, stashed away in St Claire's managed to buy some of these gifts remained unexplained. :-)

All in all, though, I truly felt this season was laid out and written with a surer hand than last season was (I thought the back half of Season 3 was all over the place).

And yes, I am looking forward to Season 5, as long as it has September in it. :-)

Edited by Money Magnet, May 7, 2012 @ 7:53 PM.

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#466

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 8:16 PM

I remain a bit distant, emotionally, from this season. I understand the mechanics of who is whom and which version of who is which, but other than Peter -- the constant -- these are not the same people. My investment in them is diminished.

What rubs the wrong way is the contradiction in the internal "rules" of the Fringe world. (I've said this in other forum, so sorry if this reads redundant!)

Season 3 spent so much time on the matter of who we are -- "how could you not see she wasn't me?" -- that Peter and I daresay the audience would never mistake a look-alike for an original flavor person again. Peter confirmed this notion in LSD -- each physical copy is an original, in a way, an individual.

This season, that notion is contradicted. BlueOlivia can simply be superimposed onto AmberOlivia with some shared memories. Voila! With a word from September, Peter accepts this new person as his.

The logic of the first three seasons led me to believe that we are who our experiences make us: scientist who does mad things = mad scientist; abused child = emotionally damaged adult. This season says that 60% of someone else's memories make you who they are. Doesn't follow the show's own logic.

The new world just doesn't resonate with me. It's one reason why I'm looking forward to a season 5 set elsewhere, if that's the plan. I'd rather wrap up this damaged branch of the Fringe story and continue with a new adventure.
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#467

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 9:15 PM

Season 3 spent so much time on the matter of who we are -- "how could you not see she wasn't me?" -- that Peter and I daresay the audience would never mistake a look-alike for an original flavor person again. Peter confirmed this notion in LSD -- each physical copy is an original, in a way, an individual.


But did the show ever establish it as as a rule after all in "Reciprocity" Olivia saying

"And, of course, we're the same. She would see what I see. We speak the same. We use the same phrases. I'm reading this and I'm thinking this is how I make sense of things. Make sense of feelings."
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#468

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 10:18 PM

Well, I guess that Olivia realizing there are similarities between herself and Faux is, in a way, also acknowledging their differences. The initial jealousy Olivia felt about Faux -- she smiled more, she was more carefree -- also highlighted the idea that they were different people.

Season 4 turned its back on that distinction, I think, because one individual "became" another -- presto! change-o!-- and Peter bought it. No "learning" the new 60/40 Olivia needed! It's sort of a ridiculous hang-up of mine, I know. But beyond erasing much of the character growth of the first three seasons, aside from Peter's and, um, 60% of Olivia, I feel the show undermined it's own internal logic.

Of course, I still enjoy it tremendously (wouldn't be here otherwise hahaha) but It would have been more satisfying to have a full return of ALL the originals. This ending would've had more emotional weight, I think.
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#469

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 7:36 AM

The difference is that Olivia and Altlivia were genetically the same, but physically different from conception, and were therefore no more alike than identical twins raised apart. Blue Olivia and Amber Olivia were exactly the same person from conception to 1985, after which Amber Olivia's life experience changed. I'm still uncertain why Amber Liv's regaining her Blue memories meant losing the Amber ones; it probably has something to do with some of Bell's explanations in LSD.

Graphing through time, Olivia and Altlivia are parallel lines, where Blue and Amber Olivia are a single line that forks.
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#470

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 7:58 AM

Graphing through time, Olivia and Altlivia are parallel lines, where Blue and Amber Olivia are a single line that forks.


I like that visual definition, Jophan. Maybe if we hadn't been battered over the head with the parallel-identity for so long, the merged-identity idea wouldn't have felt so insincere. This viewer doesn't recognize good tropes or bad tropes. This viewer recognizes balance!

As for why Amber's memories were replaced, maybe the writers stretched the Pauli Exclusionary principle to include memories -- no two memories could exist in the same place at the same time.

Edited by fedorafadares, May 8, 2012 @ 8:00 AM.

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#471

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 8:24 AM

Graphing through time, Olivia and Altlivia are parallel lines, where Blue and Amber Olivia are a single line that forks.


Really, it's not even a fork, because both sets of events happened to the same physical person. The is no AmberOlivia or BlueOlivia, there is just Olivia, she experienced life from 1985-2012 with and without Peter's presence. The same is true of Walter.

You can also look at it as a parallel of what happened to Peter right after he came back. Olivia is now in the exact same situation, just without having been erased from the timeline.
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#472

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 12:35 PM

I agree with you, Money Magnet, that the interactions with the alt-universe were the best part of this season, with Elizabeth forgiving Walter standing out as probably the most powerful scene for me.

But even then...I can't shake the nagging feeling that this scene would have been even MORE powerful for me, if the two characters had their memories of the original timeline. The fact that their memories were different from what we had seen over the past few seasons created a distancing effect. The context was different. RedElizabeth wasn't forgiving BlueWalter for kidnapping her son and keeping him on his side for decades; she was forgiving him for taking him over to his side in order to cure him, and then accidentally killing him. Powerful stuff, but...not as powerful as it could have been, given that we didn't have the same context. I wanted RedElizabeth to reunite with her son after meeting him and losing him again in "Over There." But we didn't get that, because she has no memory of those events. In fact, we have no idea how RedElizabeth reacted to losing Peter again, because we never saw her after "Over There." The one we saw in Season 4 was interesting, and technically the same person. But her experiences aren't the experiences we saw.

I can't help wishing for an alternate Season 4 in which Peter wasn't erased, and the characters were allowed to develop and grow from the points we left them at toward the end of Season 3. I've heard a lot about how the reunions and forgiveness we've seen this season couldn't have happened without the timeline change, but I don't know if I fully buy that. I would have rather seen the two Walters, with all their memories intact, try to move on from what they had done to one another. I would have liked to see how Olivia and Peter dealt with the son he created with Faux, instead of having that glossed over. I feel kind of cheated this season--it made natural character growth impossible. I even still feel distanced from Olivia, because I can't help but wonder how she would have developed in an alternate Season 4 where she was allowed a more linear progression.
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#473

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 7:00 PM

On a different note:

I was thinking about the Season 4 title sequence, and the concepts we've seen so far this season are: Existence, Quantum Entanglement, Viral Therapy, Ethereal Plane, Time Paradox, and Bilocation. Any others? I think this may be the most the title sequence concepts have matched a season.
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#474

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Posted May 8, 2012 @ 7:45 PM

On a different note:

I was thinking about the Season 4 title sequence, and the concepts we've seen so far this season are: Existence, Quantum Entanglement, Viral Therapy, Ethereal Plane, Time Paradox, and Bilocation. Any others? I think this may be the most the title sequence concepts have matched a season


Yes, there are others:Psychic Surgery, Philosopher's Stone, Gravitons, Transgenics. Although, the only one that I find to have significance with the plot is Transgenics.
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#475

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Posted May 9, 2012 @ 3:42 PM

If a loved one of yours loses their memory of you are they still your love ones, or are they now strangers? It's a question that Fringe asks in it's own unique way.


Except these characters didn't lose their memories, they lived another life that replaced the lost memories. So to answer your question, in this case, Yes I do think they are strangers in the same way faux olivia was. I can intellectually justify to myself that they are the same people but the fact is that I am just less invested in these characters. I just remember that moment at the end of season 2 when Olivia sees Peter shimmering and it was just a fantastic moment because I cared about these two people. I barely blinked when they got back together in this timeline. Which tells me that I just don't care all that much about them.

The only time I have really connected with the show this season was in the future episode when I could essentially retcon in my head what happened to get them to this point.

Edited by MV007, May 9, 2012 @ 3:44 PM.

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#476

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Posted May 9, 2012 @ 4:12 PM

I thought Peter and Olivia's reunion and the stuff leading up to it was some of the most romantic stuff the show has ever done. I bought into it all. As the season has progressed I've really have no problems feeling for these characters as I did in s1-3. To me Walter is Walter, I don't really think of him as a different Walter anymore.
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#477

bagert

bagert

    Couch Potato

Posted May 12, 2012 @ 8:37 PM

Okay, ready to start a list of unresolved issues from Season 4? (These are things that may not be obviously intended as continuing storylines such as Bell being at-large and the red universe/bridge.)

* Some cortexiphan kids (including Nick Lane!) are still loose and probably angry that Bell abandoned them.

* Bell's shapeshifters are also still around, right?

* Is there a Brandon Fayette in the AmberBlue universe, and if so, what has he been up to? (Since he didn't discover the Observers for Massive Dynamic)

Anything else?
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#478

Trini Girl

Trini Girl

    Stalker

Posted May 13, 2012 @ 1:25 AM

* Lincoln Lee: What kind of paperwork do you have to fill out to move to a new universe?

* Will the remnants of AmberOlivia's life come back to haunt the team?

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I thought the finale was good; so I think this would be a great time for me to step away. If something awesome happens in the next season, I'm sure I'll here about it. I don't want to get invested when I don't think it will be as good as previous seasons. Also, I think I've reached my limit for wacky Fringe pseudo-science, and I know that it can only get wackier and Fringier in the future.
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#479

Boundary

Boundary

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 2:58 AM

I thought the finale was good; so I think this would be a great time for me to step away. If something awesome happens in the next season, I'm sure I'll here about it. I don't want to get invested when I don't think it will be as good as previous seasons. Also, I think I've reached my limit for wacky Fringe pseudo-science, and I know that it can only get wackier and Fringier in the future.


I still love Fringe but I've been stepping away emotionally gradually throughout the season. I won't stop watching next year because I think we'll get a fairly ordered farewell. But all the mysteries have been solved for me and so I just want a less wacky Fringe as well. I think a jump into the future will do that for me.
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#480

oconnellaboo

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    Fanatic

Posted May 13, 2012 @ 9:40 AM

Okay, ready to start a list of unresolved issues from Season 4?

Yup!

  • Did Peter tell Walter that September told him this is his "correct" universe? I would think that would have an enormous impact on Walter; I'm assuming not, since Bell mentioned both Peters dying, and Walter didn't disagree. That bothers me - as Josh said in an interview, they've "glossed over" something that, to me, is pretty important.
  • Does Olivia know about baby Henry? I honestly can't see a convenient time for Peter to tell her, especially now that she's pregnant herself, but Peter's a pretty open and honest guy. I can't see him not telling her, either.

I adored the finale, but I still can't forget my dissatisfaction with much of the season. I think it was amazing, audacious storytelling, and maybe I was supposed to feel the way I felt, but I didn't like feeling so detached from characters I'd spent three years coming to love. Peter was our constant, and we followed him through this journey, but I don't think we got a truly satisfactory resolution of that journey. Again, much of it was glossed over.

However, I'm looking forward to a re-watch of the season; I don't remember who said it, but someone made a great analogy that this season was It's a Wonderful Life if George Bailey was forced to stay in Potterville and adapt. I'm intrigued by that notion, and am going to use that as a point of reference in my re-watch. Apologies to whoever posted that - it was brilliant!
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