163 replies to this topic

[TWoP Howard]

From TWoP and ZAP2it:

Jax and Tara get a look at life without SAMCRO but discover that their reality is hard to escape.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 14, 2011 @ 10:50 PM.

[swampy]

I cheered so fucking loud when Gemma pulled that gun, and then almost immediately started shouting in horror for her instead. Clay needs to go, now.

So much happened. Still processing most of it, but wow. Great television tonight.

Edited by swampy, Nov 8, 2011 @ 11:05 PM.

[Amester0120]

I sincerely hope that TPTB decided to extend the season so Clay can be killed off in various and incredibly painful ways.

Edited by Amester0120, Nov 8, 2011 @ 11:05 PM.

[JGrabbyHands]

Katey Sagal's makeup artist should be fired. The rouge used on her face after Clay knocked Gemma around looked like...rouge, not a battered face.

On the flip side, the Gemma/Clay knockdown drag out was one of the more compelling scenes on the show that I've seen in a while.

[marleyfan]

Great television tonight.

I hear you. I was full of snark until Clay and Gemma got into it. And now Opie is going to find his dad's body? This show pretty much redeemed itself in my eyes tonight.

Edited by marleyfan, Nov 8, 2011 @ 11:08 PM.

[CharmCity04]

WOW! Is all I have to say about this episode. That Clay/Gemma violent altercation alone just left my mouth hanging and so shocked.

Poor Tara, she finally get what she wants and now has basically lost her career because of Clay.

The Juice/Roosevelt scene was also interesting to me. especially, when Roosevelt told Juice he knew what happened to Tara. Does he know the real truth that Clay was behind it? And, would Juice ever ask him about that and maybe use that info for himself?

Edited by CharmCity04, Nov 8, 2011 @ 11:12 PM.

[peridot16]

I can't believe Clay beat the shit out of Gemma. I'm glad the she said all of those things to him, but I was afraid he would beat her to death.

I was kind of choked up when Tara was laying in bed with that blank look on her face. I'm kind of confused on who took her though, I heard someone speaking Spanish but it looked like a white guy was there. Was it the Irish?

I feel so bad for Opie, he doesn't have anything except the club and lost the love of his life because of it. When he said "I need you in the club", it was so sad. I was hoping he would throw a punch at Jax.

I can't wait for next week.

[IdesOfSmarch]

I stopped breathing at least a few times during this episode, especially during that Jax/Tara scene in the hospital where she breaks down and Gemma being attacked by Clay. Maggie & Katey were fantastic. And just seeing Clay alive makes me rage, he better die asap.

As for the previews, Wendy better not give Tara shit about Abel. Tara's his only mother, not her.

[lambie]

The *only* thing that would have made this episode more awesome is if Opie punched Jax in the face when he reminded him that Jax convinced him to stay in the club. Other than that, holy shit.

Tara's demented smile when she said they could be together: Jax, Tara, and Gemma was awesome! Poor Tara. I know she wanted the happy ending but her entire life has been destroyed.

[CharmCity04]

I will say, thank god they had a tiny little lightheartedness in this episode with Juice watching Cartoons in his cell.

But, man how long has Piney been in his Cabin alone? That body must be smelling about now.

[Outlaw43]

So is Tara about to go all Ophelia on us?

She certainly seemed to be cracking up a bit at the hospital.

[marie1974]

The *only* thing that would have made this episode more awesome is if Opie punched Jax in the face when he reminded him that Jax convinced him to stay in the club.

If memory serves, I thought Opie begged to be let back in.

A lot of this fallout is directly related to Clay's decision to include SAMCRO in the business of drugs. Clay's on a power trip and he needs to be put out of his misery. Pronto. I don't particularly care who does it.

[Autumnslumbers]

I don't know if I buy that a group of professional hit men bobbled Tara's kidnapping so horrendously. Yes, Jax was there with his gun but they had her in the car and I would think being shot at is par for the course for them but whatever.

I liked Margaret's little speech to Gemma. I only wished we could have seen her giving something half as passionate to Tara before her hand got all smashed up. Also Margaret is completely underestimating Tara, the woman may be lovestruck when it comes to decisions made about Jax but Tara staying in Charming was Tara's decision. A dumb decision that is likely to get her killed, but it was all Tara. Gemma may not have made is easy on her to contemplate leaving, but she didn't masterfully manipulate Tara into staying.

Clay is even more evil than ever. He is starting to remind me of that 'What If' episode of Futurama where Leela just keeps killing people and hilariously covering it up. Only with Clay it isn't funny just bizarre. How the hell is he going to cover up the fact that he beat down Gemma? Furthermore, what does he think is stopping her from spilling everything now that he has attacked her? Then the Tara situation with the Cartel, no way that is going to stay quiet forever. He just keeps digging himself into a hole that, eventually, Jax will put him in.

[badhabit]

[snip]
Clay attacking Gemma scared the hell out of me. There's nothing left in him but contempt for everyone around him. I'm glad Gemma finally saw that, but it's time to stop plotting behind the scenes. It worries me that she's assuming the hit on Tara is called off because Clay got his money back. Also, how is she gonna hide that messed up face from Jax? Or maybe she's going to use it to get Jax to kill Clay? Honestly, she just needs to say Clay was going after Tara to get this ball in motion, but the fact that Jax is still in the dark about nearly everything is not good news. I'm left anxious beyond belief.

My heart broke for Tara and Jax this episode. Jax wants out so, so bad. He got a taste of being a normal family man, got to have a nice conversation with a cop, spend time in the park with his kids and sorta wife... and now this. The Jax/Tara confrontation was beyond sad. I think Tara has finally accepted her lot in life. She chose Jax, therefore she's stuck with the club and Gemma. It all just felt kind of hopeless. I hope she eventually regains use of her hand. Jax's reaction to her sadness killed me just as much as her breaking down. That connection is so strong, and I loved seeing a less reactive more vulnerable Jax this episode.

Roosevelt is kind of the coolest guy around. I might love him extra hard after this episode. He owned up to his mistakes, and apologized. Not many people can do that. He was also so respectful of Jax when he saw how broken down he was, and seemed genuinely concerned for Tara whom he's met only once. He's a good guy, and I hope Linc doesn't screw him over.
[snip]

[Previews are off-topic in the episode thread—TWoP Howard]

Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 9, 2011 @ 3:33 AM.
Off topic

[CharmCity04]

Then the Tara situation with the Cartel, no way that is going to stay quiet forever. He just keeps digging himself into a hole that, eventually, Jax will put him in.

Well Roosevelt did say that he knew what happened to Tara. But, does he know the real truth?

[Allie J]

Seeing Clay beat the hell out of Gemma is perhaps the worst thing I've ever seen on this show, and that's really saying something.

[IdesOfSmarch]

[Previews are off-topic in the episode thread. Take that discussion to the Previews and Speculation thread, please—TWoP Howard]

Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 9, 2011 @ 3:39 AM.
Off topic

[Autumnslumbers]

Well Roosevelt did say that he knew what happened to Tara. But, does he know the real truth?

I guess it is possible that her put two and two together but...I just don't see how he would know. I would think that if anything he believes the same thing as SAMCRO, that the Lobos were retaliating. I can't see how he would make that leap in judgement. What reason does Roosevelt have to be suspicious of Clay?
[snip]
I agree badhabit, didn't they say something in English first then switch to spanish once Jax was near. I can believe that this bumbling attempt at a kidnapping was purposeful. We know that Romeo already lied to Clay when he said he could not get in contact with the hitman. Plus we saw that guy outside of the van watching Tara and Jax. I would have assumed he would have just shot her. Why the hell would they kidnap her anyway?

[Previews are off-topic in the episode thread. Take that discussion to the Previews and Speculation thread, please—TWoP Howard]

Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 9, 2011 @ 3:41 AM.
Off topic

[Allie J]

I think he just meant that he heard that Tara had been attacked, not that he actually knew what had really happened. He'd have no way of knowing that.

I think Roosevelt might be my favorite character, especially after the impressive apology to Juice. It's nice to see someone with real character on this show.

[badhabit]

What even did happen to Tara? Those van guys did not look like Cartel guys. Could they have been Russians? Irish? I don't think Romeo was being truthful with Clay, and just let him believe what he wanted. Romeo seemed to be going along with the singular hit guy still.

[CharmCity04]

What reason does Roosevelt have to be suspicious of Clay?

It was weird. Like he said he knew what happened to Tara and if Juice needed to "talk", just call him.

Maybe I am jumping to conclusions.

[Amester0120]

What even did happen to Tara? Those van guys did not look like Cartel guys.

They weren't Cartel guys. Romeo hired someone outside to do the hit (professional hitmen? I have no idea.) When he gave Clay his money back, he said that the Cartel would take care of the hit themselves.

[TeePee]

The guys that attacked Tara spoke Spanish I believe.

I have really like Roosevelt from day 1. He seems like a guy that wants the *bad* out, even if it means compromising with SAMCRO.

[momallrat]

Oh...My...God!!!

That was just an awesome episode. The actors really brought it. I cried all the way through that horrible scene with Tara and Jax and then again when I saw Gemma's face. I am more intrigued then ever about what actually happened to J.T. Was it Gemma who killed him or was Clay trying to place the blame on her because he has a complete inability to own up to anything he's done wrong.

Seriously, Katy Sagal better get her Emmy out of this episode and one for Maggie Siff too, while we're at it.

I loved hearing Margaret finally tell Gemma the truth about the kind of person Gemma is. I love the character, but everything Margaret said was spot on.

The men brought it tonight as well. Roosevelt was great. It's good to see a law man who actually tries to do the right thing on this show. Oh and Ron Perlman also deserves an Emmy nom. I hate Clay so much I can hardly stand it and it takes a real actor to pull that kind of character off well. Also the scene between Opie and Jax was just heart wrenching. I was not an Opie fan at first, but Ryan Hurst has made me one.

[Previews are off-topic in the episode thread. Take that discussion to the Previews and Speculation thread, please—TWoP Howard]

Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 9, 2011 @ 3:43 AM.
Off topic

[Outlaw43]

I am more intrigued then ever about what actually happened to J.T. Was it Gemma who killed him or was Clay trying to place the blame on her because he has a complete inability to own up to anything he's done wrong.

I think it's closer to the latter. The implication was that Gemma wanted JT dead, so she manipulated Clay into making it happen (just like she now wants Clay dead, so she's manipulating Unser.)

Edited by Outlaw43, Nov 8, 2011 @ 11:56 PM.

[MuShu]

Surely these idiots have noticed that the Sheriff has singled out Juice who they have to think has been acting strangely lately. I guess Chibs has, but he's probably too busy wondering when he can get enough time off from the Russians, the Mexicans, the Irish, the Skinheads and the rest of the interminable big bads on this soap opera to wash his damn dirty hair. It's worse than Opie's or even Bobby Elvis'.

Gemma getting beat down by her old man was shocking to me in that he didn't beat her on a regular basis.


Juice should tell the FBI dude to go fuck himself, and find a real FBI agent to get a sweet CI deal and turn on these jackasses. Shit has just gone down and they head to the club house to screw around with some chicken heads or sweet butts or whatever they call biker groupie 'hos these days.

Tara is a dumbass who deserves what she gets. Why yes, I do have the drive, patience and dedication to become a skilled pediatric surgeon, but no, I cannot resist psycho agents and biker dirtbags. Hell, I just had to get bonded to become a billing analyst for workers comp claims, and would have been fired for an association with an outlaw MC. I would think a Doctor would be held to higher standards.

[Blue32]

Clay's assault on Gemma was really hard to watch. (I don't know if there's anything in canon to contradict this, but I got the vibe from Gemma's attitude at the end and comment that nothing was broken that it wasn't the first time Clay had beaten her.)

I liked Margaret's little speech to Gemma. I only wished we could have seen her giving something half as passionate to Tara before her hand got all smashed up. Also Margaret is completely underestimating Tara, the woman may be lovestruck when it comes to decisions made about Jax but Tara staying in Charming was Tara's decision. A dumb decision that is likely to get her killed, but it was all Tara. Gemma may not have made is easy on her to contemplate leaving, but she didn't masterfully manipulate Tara into staying.

Yes to both: I liked the speech (and Margaret telling Gemma that she wasn't afraid of her), but Tara is a grown-ass adult who made some spectacularly terrible decisions. Gemma was manipulative, yes, but Tara chose her choice; she just chose badly. (Tara's combination of despair and bitterness in the hospital was wrenching, though. Maggie Siff sold the shit out of that scene with Jax.)

I did like that Gemma's outrage over Tara--and possible guilt after Margaret's little speech--was what led her to confront Clay.

Not the first to make this observation, but it was a little creepy how Unser was all prepared to be the new Clay and make Clay the new J.T.

Edited by Blue32, Nov 9, 2011 @ 12:58 AM.

[ttfr1]

I sincerely hope that TPTB decided to extend the season so Clay can be killed off in various and incredibly painful ways.

I got a Google Alert in my email that FX just ordered a 14th episode for this season. Didn't read the article yet, but things must be so intense (as if they aren't already) that TPTB think it all needs more time for a proper season finale. I'm excited and scared. Some Sons are gonna die or go to prison. I just feel it.

I think Gemma is going to set it up so Opie kills Clay. She told Unser it had to be a Son that killed him. She wouldn't want it to be her precious prince risking getting caught and sent back to prison. She obviously doesn't give a crap if Ope takes the fall. Not, that I blame her for wanting to protect her son but Ope is like a son to her, or, so I always thought. Poor Opie. He's always been a pawn in this tragic soap opera.

I was full of snark until Clay and Gemma got into it. And now Opie is going to find his dad's body? This show pretty much redeemed itself in my eyes tonight

I've been loving this season. The attack on Tara was brutal. The moment they slammed that door on her hand I knew her career as a surgeon would be in jeopardy, if not over. Poor Tara. Now the sight of Jax will remind her of how trapped she's become.

I loved Margaret calling Gemma out for all that's happened to Tara because of her and her son. Jax wants the best for Tara but his love has brought her nothing but misery. And, Gemma, she just uses Tara. She is an awful woman. But, she's trapped too, it seems. I guess she's what Tara will become if she and Jax can't escape SAMCRO and Charming.

The fight between Gemma and Clay was amazing. I wanted her to kill him so badly. How is Gemma going to explain those bruises all over her face, especailly when Clay has a few of his own. The guys will know he beat the crap out of her. What will Jax do.

I feel so bad for Opie, he doesn't have anything except the club and lost the love of his life because of it. When he said "I need you in the club", it was so sad. I was hoping he would throw a punch at Jax.

That was so sad. He looked like a little boy saying that. "I need YOU in the club". He said it so desperately. It really hit me how important Jax is to Opie. He's his brother not his friend. And, I don't mean that 'yo bro' kinda crap. With his parents' split and Piney probably being at the club more than with him, Jax has been the only constant in Opie's life. After Donna's death, I think Jax has become even more important to him. And, now, next week...he finds out his Dad has been killed. Heart breaking.

If memory serves, I thought Opie begged to be let back in

Jax went to Opie's work place and asked him to do a job for the club. Then Opie got a taste for it again and wanted back in with Jax's blessing. All the while Donna was giving Opie grief for wanting back in and Jax was teling him he couldn't be half in and half out. Basically, he had to choose. That's when he told Donna that he loved her but that she knew who he was when they married and if she couldn't accept him for himself, she might as well keep packin'. So, yeah, he wanted back in but it was Jax's initial coaxing that brought him back. Opie was never kicked out of the club so he wouldn't have to beg to get back in, anyway.

Well Roosevelt did say that he knew what happened to Tara. But, does he know the real truth?

I believe all he meant was that he knew she was attacked. I mean, cops got the story from Jax. I'm sure Roosevelt has a scanner in his cruiser. He knows nothing more than the basics, imo.

Damn, this show is my crack.
[snip]

Shit has just gone down and they head to the club house to screw around with some chicken heads or sweet butts or whatever they call biker groupie 'hos these days.

Bwahahaha! This is so funny to me.

[Previews are off-topic in the episode thread. Take that discussion to the Previews and Speculation thread, please—TWoP Howard]

Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 9, 2011 @ 3:47 AM.
Off topic

[BakerX2]

Damn damn damn.....


Who was it in the van that attacked Jax/Tara? The Irish? The Russians?

As for the rest, damn that was intense. Though quite frankly, Gemma should have killed Clay on the spot before he could pound the shit out of her.

As for her "it has to be a son", I'm hoping it's Jax as far as Gemma putting all of the cards on the table and telling Jax about the affair and how Clay killed JT and the letters. I'm sure she and Uncer can spin some tail about how the two and Tara didn't tell Jax about them because of the affair and fear that Clay didn't do it/reveal Clay DID admit to killing JT and beat Gemma up to silence her after he made the reveal.

(That reminds me; can't Tara become a regular doctor? Just because you can't operate doesn't mean you can't still be a regular doctor)

As for Opie, I wonder if he will be the wildcard for whatever ends up happening in the end. Would be interesting if he kills Clay, sending everything and everyone into chaos.

And Roosevelt: no sympathy from me for him. He willingly got in bed with Lincoln and moreso, could have stood up to Lincoln before he compromised himself entrapping Juice. I pray he doesn't turn into Uncer 2.0, selling out the investigation; at the very least, I want to see him force Lincoln to honor the pledge that he made to Juice about letting SAMCRO survive unscathed.

[Glitterkittens]

Tara is a dumbass who deserves what she gets. Why yes, I do have the drive, patience and dedication to become a skilled pediatric surgeon, but no, I cannot resist psycho agents and biker dirtbags. Hell, I just had to get bonded to become a billing analyst for workers comp claims, and would have been fired for an association with an outlaw MC. I would think a Doctor would be held to higher standards.

As much as I agree with your assessment of Tara otherwise, I don't think she was exactly enthralled with that agent when he became a psycho stalker control freak. instead, she got a restraining order and retreated to the one person who made her feel safe....even if it was because he was a neck breaker. Jax may be violent but not without 'defined purpose'. Like all gangsters, he plays by a different set of moral rules. Whereas the other guy was just a demented stalker rapist, and those guys get obsessed without the women doing anything intentional.