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2-7: "Peg of Old" 2011.11.06 (recap)


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#211

Glitterkittens

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Posted Nov 11, 2011 @ 3:39 PM

In the early 1980s my sister lived in a West Village apartment with a bathtub in the kitchen. The toilet was in the hallway and shared with the neighbors.

My cousin's Brooklyn apartment in 2004 had a similar deal.

At least in this episode, I like Margaret for the second time this season. Most of the time, I find her atrocious, but her family dynamic was interesting and sad. However, do we need her little sister to come in to play? This show has so many characters as it is. I'd rather see Katy more fleshed out or something.

#212

marioninnyc

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Posted Nov 11, 2011 @ 4:48 PM

Re: Previous comments -- any buildings in NYC in the 1980's or 2000's that still had communal toilets were out of code with rent regulations. In some very small old buildings the EXCLUSIVE water closet for an apartment might be in the hallway, but it can't be shared by more than one dwelling.

Edited by marioninnyc, Nov 11, 2011 @ 8:20 PM.


#213

fashionista79

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Posted Nov 11, 2011 @ 5:28 PM

I actually thought the Margaret/Owen liaison was out of character for her, and crazy dangerous for them both.

Was it really that out of character? The first time she and Nucky slept together, it was all very impromptu, and there had been a similar tug o' war between the two. The only difference I see between the first time that Nucky and Margaret slept together and what Owen and Margaret did was that Margaret was more overt about it with Owen. With Nucky, however, she was more sly; she wanted him to do something about the trouble her husband was getting into, and that one day when Nucky couldn't remember who she was, she managed to get the woman from the Temperance League to protest outside of the venue where Nucky had been speaking. It was after that that Nucky came to her place and they had sex.

Margaret is a smart one, and I find her so interesting because she's doing what she can to stay relevant in 1921. There aren't many choice for her, and so some of the choices she makes may come off as selfish, but I tend to think she's forever in self-preservation mode. She was in an abusive marriage for many years, and now that she isn't, she's decided that she'll call the shots as best she can (and within the constraints of the time period).

At the opposite end of the spectrum is Jimmy. He's spiraling fast. He's got no power whatsoever, and the more he listens to Gillian, the worse things become for him. He was pretty much goaded into ordering the hit on Nucky, and all Gillian could do was shrug her shoulders. That and sleep with Charlie. She gets to play around, and Jimmy gets to do the dirty work. He needs to wake the hell up.

Also, I'm total agreement with those who were swooning over the Brooklyn set. It was absolutely teeming with life, and parts of it reminded me of watching The Godfather II when Vito is living in Brooklyn in the early 19-teens.

Edited by fashionista79, Nov 11, 2011 @ 5:32 PM.


#214

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Posted Nov 11, 2011 @ 8:26 PM

I was obsessed with Tenement-Era NYC when I was a teenager. A Tree Grows in Brooklyn is one of my favorite books of all time. Obviously, I romanticized it. They did an amazing job bringing it to life.

I also like Owen. For one, I find everything about him hot.....especially the accent. And I am a sucker for all things Irish: music, history, culture, tragedy. I think he embodies the contrast of bittersweet sentiment and anger/danger quite well. Bad and Sad can be a delicious combination.

#215

jennifda

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Posted Nov 12, 2011 @ 12:39 AM

I'm not crazy about her split personality - one minute, she's just 'one of the girls', the next, she's To The Manor Born -


Personally, I think her "To The Manor Born"-ness is how she thinks she should be acting as the lady of the house. But in reality she is extremely lonely. Even when she was poor and abused by her husband, she was friends with her neighbors if I remember correctly. And now who does she have? Only Nucky. So one night she gives in and is "one of the girls", but when Nucky returns, she has to return to her role, probably based on the barrister's wife (if he had one) or at least those females she would have seen visiting the barrister's home. I think this may also tie into her "no one gave me a bonus" comment a bit ago. She is going by how the "ladies" she knew back home acted; if they didn't give her a bonus, she must think that it isn't done. A lot of people thought she was forgetting her roots when she begrudged them the small amount, but she would not have expected such a thing and probably think it is just not done.

I also don't think she is so much being bitchy to the staff as trying to be realistic. She pockets some of the money in the off chance Nucky tires of her (as he did have eyes for the girl in the theater). So there is the double stress of playing her role correctly so Nucky won't think less of her as well as realizing eventually the day will come when Nucky will tire and replace her with someone else. She is dealing with those things, worried about what will happen to her kids and has no one to discuss her worries, so she becomes more and more resentful; especially to Nucky who has the power to choose to be with her (she gets to live wealthy) or no (she is poor again with many kids mouths to feed).

Edited by jennifda, Nov 12, 2011 @ 8:46 PM.


#216

TWoP Howard

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Posted Nov 12, 2011 @ 1:46 PM

And to include her in his life. She’s done her best to show him she can be a partner rather than an appendage.

In other news, the recap is up.

#217

Milburn Stone

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Posted Nov 12, 2011 @ 5:05 PM

I was obsessed with Tenement-Era NYC when I was a teenager. A Tree Grows in Brooklyn is one of my favorite books of all time. Obviously, I romanticized it. They did an amazing job bringing it to life.

Funny you should mention that, because in all the scenes that took place in Peg's siblings' apartment, I got strong deja vu of the apartment in the 1945 Elia Kazan film of A Tree Grows in Brooklyn. I actually suspect they used it as a reference.

#218

Meredith

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Posted Nov 12, 2011 @ 6:18 PM

in the matter of her vs. her stick-in-the-mud, holier than thou brother

It must run in the family.

I've thought that Margaret has wanted Owen from the moment she laid eyes on him. I have told my hubby several times that I don't like Margaret and I really disliked the way she talked to Katie when she had the gall to remind her that their are children in the house.

She's living with a man who isn't her husband yet she has the gall to be uppity with Katie. I know it was very likely because she was jealous of what was between Katie and Owen but still the gall... and now she's once again doing exactly what Katie was doing in the house that has children in it.

Edited by Meredith, Nov 12, 2011 @ 6:20 PM.


#219

Bob1965

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Posted Nov 12, 2011 @ 8:33 PM

in the house that has children in it.


True, in the sense that children live there, but they were at the beach at the time. So not the same thing. To me anyway.

eta: Unless you meant with Nucky. Then I agree.

Edited by Bob1965, Nov 12, 2011 @ 8:37 PM.


#220

Scoutlet

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Posted Nov 12, 2011 @ 9:23 PM

I think Margaret did want Owen from the start, but at the same time she very much did not WANT to want him, because of his cheeky/slimy behavior. She was pissed at Katie because she was jealous, but I'm not sure she really understood her own feelings. She hated the idea of Owen brazenly having sex in her house because she herself was not allowed to act like that as a servant. She had sex and it almost ruined her life, so she wasn't going to let those two go at it without making them suffer a little.

#221

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Posted Nov 12, 2011 @ 9:48 PM

I agree. Katy and Margaret are not equals; Katy works for Margaret, and for her to have sex in the house is really inappropriate. What Margaret does is completely irrelevant. It would be hypocritical if Margaret criticized another kept woman for having a fling, but criticizing your servant for behaving inappropriately (and she was) is in order.

I don't think Nucky forgot who she was for one moment that day. It was a total game on his part because he saw he was starting to really fall for her. she called him on it by challenging him, which is just so very Irish. the more they like you (in many cases not all of course) the meaner they are. Shaw explains this a little in John Bull's Other Island: Iw ant you so I have to quarrel with you so I can go on wanting you.

#222

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Posted Nov 13, 2011 @ 7:19 AM

Katy works for Margaret, and for her to have sex in the house is really inappropriate.

If that was all there was to it, from Margaret POV at least, then there was no need to mention the fact that children live in the house. A kept woman of the house or not, how appropriate is it for Margaret to have sex with the employee of the man who is keeping her and doing in the house that the man is paying for? I'm not saying that Katie has standing to call her on it but Margaret deserves to be called on her inappropriate behavior as well.

criticizing your servant for behaving inappropriately (and she was) is in order.

I don't buy that Margaret got her panties in a snit because Katie was behaving inappropriately... whether Katie is her peer or her servant, Margaret seemed jealous of Katie and the way she chose to stick it to Katie came off as hypocritical especially now.

She hated the idea of Owen brazenly having sex in her house because she herself was not allowed to act like that as a servant.

LOL. Given that he has now brazenly had sex with her in Nucky's house, I am more inclined to think Margaret hates the idea of Owen brazenly having sex with anyone other than her LOL

BTW, does Katie live in the house or was that just some room she and Owen used to have sex? If she lives there and those are her private quarters, it seems strange to me that having sex in your room, on your time is inappropriate.

#223

fashionista79

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Posted Nov 13, 2011 @ 9:59 AM

It isn't Katy's house, though. A modern equivalent would be a family who has a live-in nanny or an au pair. It would be inappropriate for that nanny or au pair to bring her boyfriend/fling/whatever into the house to have sex. Does it happen? Well, Gosford Park and Downton Abbey tell me that it does happen, but it's all done on the low. Katy's mistake is that she wasn't discreet.

But whether Katy likes it or not, there is a hierarchy in the house. That Margaret isn't married to Nucky doesn't mean that Katy gets to do whatever she wants. She's still under Margaret's thumb. This is not to say that it isn't hypocritical; of course there's hypocrisy in their world. Ultimately, however, Katy will come down on the wrong side of that hypocrisy every single time because she's not the woman of the house; she's a maid.

It's interesting to me that Margaret only seemed to have sex with Owen after she asked him if he was hers to command. It was about power, and after being made to feel powerless with Eamoinn, she went for it with Owen. And on that end. hbo.com has some extra clips and interviews with the cast. Charlie Cox (Owen) revealed that in the episode "The Age of Reason," Kelly Macdonald made the decision not to move when Owen started helping her sweep up the fallen oats. That, I think, was the first time that Margaret made Owen aware that she likes him a bit.

#224

Meredith

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Posted Nov 13, 2011 @ 11:47 AM

Katy's mistake is that she wasn't discreet.

Maybe I wasn't paying close attention but I am not under the impression that Katie was flaunting the fact that she and Owen had sex in her room. Yes, I recall glances between her and Owen and her smiling and such and maybe that was her mistake... but Margaret didn't seem to be reprimanding Katie for smiling and appearing to be friendly with Owen.

But whether Katy likes it or not, there is a hierarchy in the house. That Margaret isn't married to Nucky doesn't mean that Katy gets to do whatever she wants

My argument isn't that Katie should be able to do whatever she wants... if Margaret has a problem with Katie bringing her personal life into her room then of course Katie needs to abide by that.

My argument here is that Margaret's problem is that she wants Owen for herself and was jealous of Katie, not that she was appalled that Katie was behaving inappropriately ie fornicating in a house that has children in it. And if it is inappropriate for the maid to have sex in the house, its just as inappropriate for Owen to do so yet Margaret has not only willingly facilitated such inappropriate behavior but has willingly participated in it as well.

But whether Katy likes it or not, there is a hierarchy in the house. That Margaret isn't married to Nucky doesn't mean that Katy gets to do whatever she wants. She's still under Margaret's thumb. This is not to say that it isn't hypocritical; of course there's hypocrisy in their world. Ultimately, however, Katy will come down on the wrong side of that hypocrisy every single time because she's not the woman of the house; she's a maid.

Sure she will but just because she is the maid and Margaret is the kept woman of the house doesn't make Margaret any less hypocritical and that is my argument... Margaret is full of it in this situation.

Edited by Meredith, Nov 13, 2011 @ 6:40 PM.


#225

lucindabelle

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Posted Nov 13, 2011 @ 12:13 PM

There are some servants who wouldn't work for a kept woman because of morality issues. But once you work for one, you treat her with respect. And it's inappropriate in that day and age for smiles and glances from servants to visitors, period. Katy screamed so loudly with Owen she woke Margaret up. And her having a room in the house doesn't mean she gets to do what she wants in it-- it still doesn't today. She's not renting that room; it's part of her wages. If she wants that much independence she would have to live out. But it's possible Margaret didn't make that clear, so she's doing so now. The bit about having children was a little excessive and I'm not saying jealousy doesn't come into it, but I also think she wouldn't like such open flirting even if she didn't have her own interest in the fellow.

I don't think anyone in that day and age would find Margaret's attitude hypocritical. But of course Margaret put herself on Katy's footing once or twice when fraternizing with servants which makes it much more awkward, and harder for Katy to understand. Blowing hot and cold is bad, and pulling rank after you've been so friendly is painful. That more than anything else must be why Katy resents her.

#226

Tom Bomb

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Posted Nov 20, 2011 @ 8:47 PM

Also, I was kind of impressed to see that they still had Paz in some sort of padding for the character. They never have "realistic" post-pregnancy bodies on television, so that really surprised me.



and

I noticed that too. You're right, they never show that on tv. Also, like others have said, I don't think we have seen the last of Lucy.


Never say never. I was just rewatching Mad Men, late in the last season the Trudy character, played by the lovely Alison Brie, is about a month after having a baby, and looks quite suitably round-bellied. Blowing Smoke episode.

I don't watch much TV, so you could be right in general.

#227

Kel Varnsen

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Posted Jan 1, 2012 @ 11:52 PM

I understand Eamonn's resentment. To his mind, Margaret was selfish and self-centered in a society in which individuals don't really matter nearly as much as family.


I am willing to cut Eamonn a bit of slack. I mean on top of what other people have said about his situation, based on his conversation with Margaret he seems like a follow-the-rules type of guy, which means even though he works his ass off doing hard manual labour on the night shift, the guy probably hasn't had a beer or a glass of whiskey over a year and a half. And even if he was willing to ignore the Volstead Act with alcohol being illegal the amount of money he would need to spend to get a drink meant it probably was something he couldn't afford.