226 replies to this topic

[TWoP Howard]

From TWoP and ZAP2it:

Jimmy faces a decision with long-term consequences; Margaret has a family reunion; a new prosecutor; Owen settles a score.

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Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 12, 2011 @ 1:46 PM.

[chlyn]

I figured the Margaret/Owen coupling would happen with a sudden rush.

[Contralto]

Margaret, you faithless bitch! (But hey, I was right about her employer's son.)

So Van Alden's finally found the line he won't cross?

[not laura]

Really sad about Lucy abandoning her daughter with Nelson. I wonder if she'll be back at the end of the season? When the play ends its run?

[maatkare]

I may be dense, but if those young girls are Margaret's sisters, then what relation is pissy guy, who is so close to Margaret's age? Another brother? Then who is the drab yet sympathetic woman? His wife? Are they childless & raising all those girls?

[Todd]

Those were Margaret's older brother and younger sisters.

[shriekingeel]

Fantastic work by Kelly McDonald in this one, I thought.

[Pallas429]

So Van Alden's finally found the line he won't cross?

And Jimmy's found there's none he won't. His grimace when he heard that Nucky would be all right, was that of a man in hell.

Brother Eamon may be a bit of a shit, but he's right that everyone can say they did what they had to do.

[mr.simpatico]

I may be dense, but if those young girls are Margaret's sisters, then what relation is pissy guy, who is so close to Margaret's age? Another brother? Then who is the drab yet sympathetic woman? His wife? Are they childless & raising all those girls?

Margaret's brother who seems to be the one who has raised and supported all the younger sisters (and brought them over to America). I don't know if we were supposed to hate him because he didn't support "Peg" (certainly Margaret seemed to feel that) but I actually felt his situation and understood his bitterness towards Margaret and why should wouldn't be considered a positive influence on the other sisters.

I don't think the Owen/Margaret thing will turn out well at all. I don't think it was any accident that it happened on the day Nucky was almost killed (while Owen should have been there). Something about Owen rubs me the wrong way. In a show filled with smug arrogant people he seems to stand out since he doesn't seem to have anything to be smug or arrogant about. And I feel sorry for Katie too. The only question I have is a) whether Margaret is able to put it behind after this (I would love if it she no longer wants him after having him) and b) he "forgets" about and never "mentions about it again". He seems to be the type to brag/gloat, especially if it's just the two of them alone (he's smart enough never to do it around Nucky).

Jimmy really has to cut Gillian loose at some point. She's his Lady MacBeth and will only bring him down.

And Jimmy's found there's none he won't. His grimace when he heard that Nucky would be all right, was that of a man in hell.

Jimmy's problem is that he is a man with a conscience who has surrounded himself by people (including his mother) who don't seem to have one - and he's just beginning to realize that now.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 7, 2011 @ 3:47 AM.
Boards on boards

[maatkare]

Margaret's brother who seems to be the one who has raised and supported all the younger sisters (and brought them over to America). I don't know if we were supposed to hate him because he didn't support "Peg" (certainly Margaret seemed to feel that) but I actually felt his situation and understood his bitterness towards Margaret and why she wouldn't be considered a positive influence on the other sisters.

Ok, thanks, all, it took me a while but I get it now. I can very much get his bitterness--he has apparently held the family together with the sweat of his brow, and yet their dead Mom called out on her deathbed for the daughter who disgraced the family with an out of wedlock child and fled to America, yet is still clearly revered by the siblings and even his drab little wife. I do feel for Margaret being rejected...nothing to do but bone the cute guy, I suppose, but no, it ain't gonna turn out well. Man...Nucky was actually the "B" story, wasn't he? and yes, shriekingeel, McDonald was amazing.

[Scoutlet]

So my father called me right after the episode to have it all explained to him. He just started watching this season. I was able to set him straight on everything except Owen killing the guy in the bar. What exactly was that about, other than being about something that happened in Ireland?

I think Margaret and Owen share a sense of being like ghosts, with unfinished business from the Old Country that haunts them and draws them together. And after tonight, I get the sense that he slept with Katie to get to Margaret. Damn, that woman is good at getting men obsessed with her.

VA and is baby at the end were so sweet and broke my heart.

[AimingforYoko]

I loved how Nucky thought Van Alden would act like anyone else when he's jammed up, in his own best interest. Unfortunately for Nucky, Van Alden is unlike anyone else, and he failed to recognize it.

[Contralto]

Really sad about Lucy abandoning her daughter with Nelson.

Has she actually abandoned her? The neighbor said she had only been gone twenty minutes. I thought the dirty diaper was just Lucy's way of telling Nelson that the work is his responsibility, too. Maybe she'd gone to try out for the role, but was she really a big enough star to just walk into it?

When Nelson was holding the baby, clearly smitten, I thought he was going to use her welfare as his excuse to sell out. Maybe he actually wants to be worthy of her.

"You can't go wrong with a name from the Bible" -- brave talk from a man named Enoch. Of course the real issue is her last name, not her first.

Is Margaret's relationship with Nucky heading for a crash, or just evolving? They seem less like lovers as they become real partners.

[Arcey]

For the first time, I got a "Manchurian Candidate" vibe with Gillian and Jimmy, esp. when she leaned over and told him to make her proud. Yuck. So creepy.

Speaking of creepy... the fingers in the urinal. I knew they'd have to come off at some point. Not too much gruesomeness in this ep, but that scene was pretty much in keeping with the last couple of eps.

Did the FBI guy kill Nucky's assassin? Not sure what to think of all that. I look forward to reading what everyone here posts. I always get so much text, context, and subtext from the posters here, and miss so much myself. Thanks for all the great insights!

ETA: I think the oldest woman at her brother's place is the oldest sister after Peg, not Mrs. Eamon. Ailish/Juliette is probably just like Peg was at that age.

Also, I don't think Margaret's going to let that good sex go too easily. One time only? I think not, Mrs. Schroeder.

Edited by Arcey, Nov 6, 2011 @ 11:03 PM.

[not laura]

Has she actually abandoned her? The neighbor said she had only been gone twenty minutes. I thought the dirty diaper was just Lucy's way of telling Nelson that the work is his responsibility, too.

That makes me feel better. I really hope you're right!

[Pallas429]

The irony that had Nucky succeeded in keeping his tame prosecutor, he would now be dead. In fact, if Nucky had succeeded in turning Van Alden, the same: no arrest, no fed agents to interfere with the killing.

Harrow's contempt when he asks Eli if he would have his brother killed, was wonderful. Perhaps his role will be to steer Jimmy back to some semblance of principles. Or at least adamantly back him, if Jimmy begins to lean that way.

Has she actually abandoned her? The neighbor said she had only been gone twenty minutes. I thought the dirty diaper was just Lucy's way of telling Nelson that the work is his responsibility, too.

The dirty diaper, pinned to the title page of "A Dangerous Maid", left in the Victrola. Maybe a little artful for Lucy, but the message seemed clear.

Owen killing the guy in the bar. What exactly was that about, other than being about something that happened in Ireland? I think Margaret and Owen share a sense of being like ghosts, with unfinished business from the Old Country that haunts them and draws them together.

I think you answered your own question. For Owen and Margaret both, what happened in Ireland, has not stayed in Ireland. They each spent the day in the past.

Edited by Pallas429, Nov 6, 2011 @ 11:24 PM.

[lucindabelle]

I think all the people in the flat are siblings. Eamonn is unmarried. And if her only option was to go to the Magdalene sisters I don't blame her for running off. That said, I'm not surprised he's suspicious of her showing up with money and books and toys. Of course, it's a little hard to support fully, when they are all breaking their backs to keep body and soul together. And he was unnecessarily harsh with his "no one here knows you." She was a decent, married woman until pretty recently. He would have preferred it if she had been raped by Douglas Walton. Ugh. He started out somewhat wary but had some feeling left for her but in the end has replaced it all with anger. I wonder if they'll ever make it up. But I suspect we'll be hearing of them again, especially of the youngest girl.

Owen killed the guy over the war back home, as he made clear when he said "you've led me a merry dance these five months." so he wasn't on the run from Ireland, he was chasing a guy in the states. who totally knew he was coming, he turned around with a knife.

Margaret and Owen will so do it again. People always do.

ETA: there was no prepared baby formula until the 60s, says my Mom. Wiki suggests otherwise but I would guess they didn't call the milk supplements "formula." I hope Lucy came back otherwise who was watching the baby when Van Alden was at work?

Edited by lucindabelle, Nov 6, 2011 @ 11:21 PM.

[lambie]

I love that things move along in this show at a good pace. We didn't have a dragged out VA vs Lucy fight, within one episode she knew what to do and went to Nucky. Her face when she walked in was priceless. She does love her "scoop of ice cream" but she's Lucy -- everything serves a purpose.

I'll have to rewatch all the Margaret stuff. I couldn't understand why her sisters were speaking Gaelic to her. They obviously didn't and why would Margaret? I do love the secret book relationship that was formed.

Owen has worn out his welcome with me. I delighted in his gleeful bomb making scene but, beyond that, he's not fun and crazy, just plain old mean.

[lucindabelle]

The little girl who spoke Gaelic was the one with the most American accent, who must have come over as a baby. I don't understand why she'd be taught to say hello and welcome in Irish and not know the very, very common phrase "good craic." It's hard to believe she'd even be brought up in a house with all Irish people and not know that phrase, a little heavy handed there (it's still in wide, wide use among Irish Americans). I thought at first they thought she was a teacher or tutor, and that they weren't expecting her.

[mr.simpatico]

I'll have to rewatch all the Margaret stuff. I couldn't understand why her sisters were speaking Gaelic to her. They obviously didn't and why would Margaret? I do love the secret book relationship that was formed.

According to my Irish great-grandmother back in the day, there was a Gaelic revival during the Irish revolution and the early years of the Republic when the Irish tried to re-claim their language and it was a source of Nationalist pride to learn it and speak it.

Owen has worn out his welcome with me. I delighted in his gleeful bomb making scene but, beyond that, he's not fun and crazy, just plain old mean.

I agree. One of the reasons I think it's all going to blow up in Margaret's face (perhaps starting in the very next episode when she finds out Nucky was shot and the guilt will sell in) is because I think Owen will turn out to be a very nasty customer (and not in a sympathetic Richard Harrow kind of way) and I think even if she's willing to drop it/him after their little tryst (which she might - whatever lust she feels for him I don't she likes him at all) I don't think HE will (especially since he'll probably hanging around even more now with Nucky's life threatened 24/7). I agree with Scoutlet, that he probably used Katie (who seems sweet) for sex and to get to Margaret.

[over30patheticgroupie]

Who was Gillian sleeping with?

[Kris]

Who was Gillian sleeping with?

Charles "Lucky" Luciano

[not laura]

The dirty diaper, pinned to the title page of "A Dangerous Maid", left in the Victrola. Maybe a little artful for Lucy, but the message seemed clear.

What was the message? That she's gone for good? That she's gone to try out for the play? 'A Dangerous Maid' only ran for about a month, so if that's the case, maybe she'll come back?

She very well could have just needed a break. I don't think Nelson has been supportive at all and the diaper was basically her saying "YOU deal with it for once!" If the baby is colicky that's especially hard on a mother. Not to mention she's been trapped in an apartment for 9 months with only Nelson "Fun" Van Alden for company. I wonder if he'll go looking for her?

Edited by not laura, Nov 7, 2011 @ 12:07 AM.

[mochamajesty]

Who was Gillian sleeping with?

Charles "Lucky" Luciano

...Again.

I am shocked...I actually liked Lucy this episode and found myself rooting for her.

Poor Margaret, not being wanted by your family? I too can understand the brother's resentment, and Margaret gave him a slap in the face when she offered him the money. She should have known he wouldn't take it. He was seething with resentment before she crossed the threshold.

Nucky has used, what, two of his nine lives?

Does Margaret really think that she will keep her booty call a secret?

[aldiboronti]

Would one of the hoods on the show please do me an immense favor (I'm willing to pay) and put a bullet in the head of the insufferable Margaret? Every time this woman appears (and that's plenty) the whole show turns into a soap opera. You just knew when the roguish Irish guy with the twinkle in his eye was introduced that he was sudser material for the Peg part of the show. Sure, the writers gave him a few standard tough guy scenes but he was obviously brought in for loving not for fighting. Now we have all Margaret's damn relatives to put up with too.

The one ray of light in this episode was the dame making eyes at Nucky just before the shooting. He definitely looked interested, and who wouldn't living with the lugubrious Margaret day and night? This would be a great show if they deep sixed the colleen.

[Bookreader]

Hi, new poster here.

Guess I misread the "diaper scene". I thought Lucy was indicating she was abandoning her interest in he play (hence her use of it) and really was only going out briefly.

Also, I wasn't sure when watching whether Jimmy was sort of warning Nucky by getting him to react just enough for the shot to miss. I know it could also be seen as Jimmy just explaining to Nucky why he was having him killed, but if Jimmy wanted Nucky dead, then he shouldn't/wouldn't have gotten his attention.

Regarding Owen, wonder if I'm the only one who doesn't think Owen was slimy toward Margaret. He's definitely a sociopath, but it seemed like flirtation to me and that he saw her as kind of a kindred spirit (not sure how sincere I consider his talk of being alone though).

[lucindabelle]

Margaret, to me, is the most interesting part of the show. I find her story and the backstory waaaaaay more interesting than the rival gangster groups which I've seen in numerous movies before. Most of the violence seems gratuitous. I also like seeing Gillian's story (though I don't like her) and Angela. I'm even interested in Lucy. In real life it would make sense if she were just on a spree but this is probably Lucy's way of leaving forever.

[Contralto]

Eamonn is unmarried. And if her only option was to go to the Magdalene sisters I don't blame her for running off.

Trouble is, she stole his passage money. If he'd emigrated on schedule, while their mother was still living, he might have had a wife and kids of his own; now, thanks to her, he'll probably die a bachelor.

In a weird way Van Alden's been liberated; now that Rose knows about the baby and his new boss needs him too badly to fire him for his awful lapse of judgment, he can't be blackmailed. The worst has happened and he'd still standing. Nice that he was willing to work with a female superior. This could have been a nuanced character -- if only he hadn't baptized Sepso to death.

Also, I wasn't sure when watching whether Jimmy was sort of warning Nucky by getting him to react just enough for the shot to miss.

I thought that was a Judas kiss. He was showing the shooter who to kill, just like he did with Liam, the guy who slashed Pearl's face.

Edited by Contralto, Nov 7, 2011 @ 12:34 AM.

[3 is enough]

I enjoyed the episode, but I did find it fairly ludicrous that in 1921, a woman would be leading the fairly high profile federal case against Nucky. The actress who plays Rebecca(?) looks familiar, but I can't place her.

[Penman61]

Julianne Nicholson played the new Fed. I first saw her on Ally McBeal, and I remember thinking then she would be a star. Guess I was wrong, but nice to see her again. Hope her role in BE is meaty.

Edited by Penman61, Nov 7, 2011 @ 1:21 AM.