448 replies to this topic

[TWoP Tennison]

Zap2it:

The group awaits Shane's return; Shane finds himself trapped in a school; Daryl and Andrea search for someone in the woods.

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Please don't discuss info from the comics in this thread if it might give away future plots. Also don't discuss previews or spoilers in here, even with spoiler tagging. We have other threads in the form for these discussions. Thanks.

[Vinny Vidi Vici]

I loved the opening, with Rick telling that Shane story, as Shane's running for his life in the school. I felt sorry for Shane the whole episode, until the last two minutes.

How awful. But why didn't he just kill Otis? The zombies would have stopped at his fresh body.

[Tiznowbaby]

Damn, Shane.

[maderas]

Now we get to deal with further soap opera dramatics for the next 2-3 episodes while Shane tries to come to grips with the monster he's become. Blegh.

[ThatPoshGirl]

Oh wow, that was horrible. Poor Otis. I hate that everyone basically decided that Carl's life was worth more than Otis's. I suppose it will sound cold, but I don't even know why they risked either him or Shane. Why would you risk the lives of two strong, able-bodied men who can shoot, for the life of a weak child who might not survive despite the effort? Seemed like a bad decision from the start.

It's so wrong, but I was sort of hoping Andrea would turn around and shoot Dale.

Seemed like they were trying to establish some chemistry between Glen and Arwen Undeadmeal.

Edited by ThatPoshGirl, Oct 30, 2011 @ 9:04 PM.

[Chainlightning]

I loved the opening, with Rick telling that Shane story, as Shane's running for his life in the school. I felt sorry for Shane the whole episode, until the last two minutes.

How awful. But why didn't he just kill Otis? The zombies would have stopped at his fresh body.

Otis shot Carl. Shane didn't give him a clean death out of revenge.

[LetsGoPens]

HATE HATE HATE HATED THAT. I'll say it. I thought that was awful. OK, you wanted dramatic effect, but Otis was to be around for a long time. And he should've been. That made me super angry and I hated it.

Love what I see happening with Maggie and Glenn. Looking forward to watching that develop.

I'm still mad.

[Impi]

Come back Shane!

[ReadIshmael]

I thought that was genuinely fantastic--a new series high by a pretty good measure. I was hearing good things about this season, and then the premiere let me down, but this was more than enough of an improvement.

All the Shane/Otis scenes were awesome, even discounting the mind-blowing, truly horrifying ending, because of the feeling of exhaustion and futility, and how well that set up and justified what Lori was saying. And Rick's VO story about Shane playing over the first scene of them in the school was really effective. Shane's shell-shocked expression afterward kind of choked me up, until I realized what happened, and as much as I hate him for it, I can't entirely blame him. He saved Carl.

Andrea stopped being annoying (because she was paired with the awesomeness that is Daryl), they remembered Glenn exists, and I was genuinely moved by the Rick/Lori scenes (and she gave me no reason to get annoyed with her this week).

Great stuff.

[HeadlessOne]

How awful. But why didn't he just kill Otis? The zombies would have stopped at his fresh body.

Exactly! Why allow Otis to suffer the excruciating pain of having his flesh bitten and torn into? Why not, at the very lowest standards of human decency, kill him that he might be an unwilling but absolutely unaware [read: dead] sacrifice? I've never felt anything but contempt for Shane, but that has just been multiplied by a ridiculous factor. May the gods of karma lay their justice upon him.

[treeHero]

Crap. Shane's gone all Hurt Locker on us. What's the motivation? He just can't let Carl die? He just can't disappoint Rick?

I mean, damn.

[BmoreCrabby]

Ok, well, they kinda telegraphed that twist with the whole dramatic head shaving...but I've come to expect less than stellar storytelling from this show.
Goodnight sweet Otis, you're a better man than any in camp Meals on Wheels...well except Darryl and Glenn.

Still, the one thing that really gets me is the idea that Otis had to make anything right. He didn't owe Rick, Carl, Shane or Lori a damn thing. If Rick and Shane weren't so enraptured with watching Carl play Wild Kingdom with a damn deer, he probably wouldn't have been shot. So, if any one needs to make it right, it's the two dolts that don't properly watch a kid in zombie-infested forests.

And it's nice to know that the show remembered Glenn, but his screen time came at the expense of Darryl. Writers, I beg you less Saint Rick of the weepy eyes and more Maggie, Glenn and Darryl.

[LetsGoPens]

Exactly! Why allow Otis to suffer the excruciating pain of having his flesh bitten and torn into?

THIS. How horrible. When we found out he died I said out loud "That's awful. I like him. But I'm glad I didn't have to see it." Oh but I did.

Mr. Pens gave the shitty reason of "but he shot Carl." AND HOW BAD DID HE FEEL? I'm very angry at this show right now. It's on my shit list.

[Raid Maze]

It's about damn time we get the impossible situation with no easy choices. In order to survive, sometimes you have to go to a dark place. Just saying.

I like that Daryl is the one person optimistic about finding the girl. We got some good insight into his character tonight.

The worst part of the episode was with our heroic lead, Rick, going on about the damn deer. He saw a deer! We must go on! It was cornball and cringe worthy.

Of the newbies, I figured Maggie has the highest survival chances. She's cute and looks to be setup for some nerd loving. Hope she's playing Glenn, though.

Overall, this season is much better than last. The stakes feel higher, the tension is greater, the characters are more on edge.

Edited by Raid Maze, Oct 30, 2011 @ 9:14 PM.

[casey22]

I hope Otis comes back and eats Shane's face. He didn't shoot Otis for Carl he did it for himself. Everyone was joking last week about how you don't have to be fast to get away from the zombies. The other guy just has to be slower and damn this show made it happen. hahaha. Poor Otis didn't deserve that end. I wonder if Shane is the one who shot Rick or he knew there were three men? His selfish mercenary streak didn't start with the Zombie plague. He seems like the type to do anything to get what he wants. He is worse than the zombies because they didn't have a choice, he did. That is evil.

[billyez]

This...this wasn't a revenge killing. If it was, then Shane wouldn't have said he was sorry before he shot Otis (at least, I think he said that). But even if he didn't, I got a different vibe from it.

He didn't kill Otis outright because he didn't have it in him to do so. And in a way, that's...almost worse. He was willing to sacrifice the man, knowing the inhuman way he would die but he wasn't willing to rid him of the pain that was going to come with it. Shane is just tough enough to make the hard decisions, but just weak enough to not go all the way with them. There's something profoundly sad about that. And interesting.

Edited by billyez, Oct 30, 2011 @ 9:20 PM.

[McAgy]

Cannot believe Otis was left for zombie chow! Show needed more zombie action and less commercials. Daryl was a hot badass as usual. And I know Shane is a psycho, but he's hot as hell too. More shirtless Shane please.

[HeadlessOne]

Mr. Pens gave the shitty reason of "but he shot Carl." AND HOW BAD DID HE FEEL? I'm very angry at this show right now. It's on my shit list

If Otis had deliberately shot Carl with all the malice that such a decision implies, then that justification might carry a little more weight. As it stands, Carl's injury was purely the result of an accident, and Otis has spent the past two episodes trying to make amends for a mistake that he could not have possibly averted. I'm with you. Shit list...if not for the show as a whole then just for writing Shane as so unnecessarily cruel.

[HWavoidance]

I think we'll be seeing various shades of gray in terms of morality and humanity this season. Last season it was walkers vs. humans, now it's humans vs. themselves as the battle for survival turns inwards. Lori's monologue illustrates (IMO) the middle ground of morality in this new post-apocalyptic world, the ultimate question they'll wrestle with, while Rick is still the ideal, and Shane, has, I think, stooped to the lowest grounds of darkness. He'd still be in a gray area if he's killed Otis with a tap to the back of the head, but doing what he did is unconscionable.

In other aspects:
Glenn has words! And he comforts Maggie! Steven Yeun is actually on the show! Hallelujah!
Jacqui is not the forgotten fallen friend. People still think about her.
Carol and T-Dog are achingly painful to watch. Daryl and Andrea go look for your kid, and it doesn't even occur to you to join them? T-Dog gets more of a pass due to the medication and blood loss, but will he ever not be Debbie Downer. The past two episodes all of his dialogue has been, for want of a better word, bitching.
Daryl and Andrea have mad chemistry, but I hope they don't go the route of Daryl being the comic relief (such as he was tonight), it would be marginalizing their most intriguing character.
The whole Dale/Andrea...whatever needs to go away. It's not interesting and I've seen less teen-level angst on Degrassi. Enough already. Let's pretend we're grown-ups struggling to survive the apocalypse and see how that goes.

[Phan]

Exactly! Why allow Otis to suffer the excruciating pain of having his flesh bitten and torn into?

Well, zombies like dinner bells and nothing says "come and get it" like a someone writhing and screaming in pain.

I'm not dismissing what Shane did obviously, but the zombies seem to be more inclined to attack something moving or making noise than not. It was a cold bastardly move but at the same... if they both die the trip was for nothing.

Okay Daryl, I trust you to make Andrea awesome.

I do like the writers exploring the evolving mental processes of the characters: the merits of suicide (Lori), prayer in the face of what would seem like a godless world and attempting to rediscover humanity (Glenn/Maggie), making cold decisions in order to run from a group of flesh hungry zombies (Shane) and flat out coping with a new world (Andrea/Daryl)... good stuff.

Edited by Phan, Oct 30, 2011 @ 9:21 PM.

[whyistherumgone]

Well, that spoiler I read was half right. I did see that ending coming from a mile away. But I did find it less shocking as a result.

TBH, it doesn't make me hate Shane. I feel bad for Ol' Otis, but the fact is that they both weren't making it out of there alive with the supplies. It just wasn't happening. Sure, they could have just kept trying and let the fastest one win. But Shane was injured, so even with Otis being as big as he was, Otis would have been the winner. Most likely, though, they both would have been toast. You gotta make a choice. Shane's was survival at all costs. I don't know that I would have done it, but I don't know that I wouldn't have, either. However, I do feel pretty confident in saying that if I did make that same choice, I would have done it differently. Brutal, Shane. Just brutal.

I think it'll be very interesting going forward. Now that Shane's made that choice, he's going to have to live with it. As opposed to what some people seem think, I don't believe he's a monster with no conscience. He'll have to live with that choice, and I expect him to make more just like it. Very black and white, the road he's now chosen. Survive. That's it. God help anyone who gets in his way.

I actually didn't totally hate Lori this episode. I felt what she was saying about not being sure if she wanted Carl to live in this world. It was something to think about. If they could have her be like that more often, I wouldn't mind her so much.

As for everyone else...I have to say I didn't pay much attention to them. That's unusual for me, but they just didn't seem to hold my attention.

[MarWar]

Poor, poor Otis. Not only does he die in terrible pain, he gets to be conscious and aware of the full horror of being eaten piece by piece by zombies. Now that is godawful. What could be Shane's possible excuse for not shooting him dead?!!

I hate that everyone basically decided that Carl's life was worth more than Otis's. I suppose it will sound cold, but I don't even know why they risked either him or Shane. Why would you risk the lives of two strong, able-bodied men who can shoot, for the life of a weak child who might not survive despite the effort? Seemed like a bad decision from the start.

You've got a point. But even on a cable channel, American TV ain't going to show a moral choice that involves letting a kid die.

Speaking of rescuing kids, how many more episodes are we going to spend looking for the little girl? Seems it's going to take up the full season.

[casey22]

What makes it worse is Otis saved his sorry ass. He could have ran but he didn't. Karma better get Shane.

Edited by casey22, Oct 30, 2011 @ 9:25 PM.

[john68]

Before you completely condemn Shane claiming that "he did it to save himself" don't forget that he stuck around to gather the medical supplies from Otis rather than just high tailing it out of there. He could have just dropped Otis with a bullet and then left.

[Lillywhite]

Arwen Undeadmeal

I love you.

Not surprised that Shane turned out to be a creepy dick. But now that we know this, please, let him die. If he survives past episode 6 I'll be extremely upset.

Rick/Lori/Carl: I. DON'T. CARE. God, this has gone way too long. I just don't care about their family drama and all the crying and the whining followed by a nostalgic interlude where they reminisce or talk about something uplifting, followed by more crying and more whining that totally contradicts the interlude. Either the writing isn't very good, or the actors don't have a full grasp of their characters, but the Grimes family just can't seem to communicate for shit. Rick and Lori don't have any chemistry, and supposedly they've been married since they were kids, but it's like they're always on the wrong page, all the time. It's like their marriage was arranged or something, and this is their first week together. It's just so awkward and cringe-worthy when they try to be husband and wife. I just can't buy it and I don't know what it is about it. Hell, Glenn and Maggie seemed more couple-ish, and they just freaking met!

Strangely (and I hate myself for typing this) Lori seems to have more chemistry with Shane and it's like they can communicate in a way Rick and Lori can't. Whatever. I'm done with this triangle. Shane and Lori need to die already. Maybe a murder/suicide pact.

Figures. Comic Otis was a jackass, but show Otis was awesome, kind, and caring. So of course he dies first. Grr, writers!! Also, I'd be super pissed if I were Pruitt Taylor Vince and I just left a sweet, cushy gig on The Mentalist for The Walking Dead and my character dies in the second episode.

Love the guy who hanged himself in the woods and wrote a little rap. Personally, I'd go out with a cute Abbot and Costello number myself.

Maggie and Glenn... eh. I'm not feeling Maggie anymore. Love Glenn, though. Love Steve Yeun. He's brought so much life and joy into this character. He's just so sweet and funny. Oh, Glenn. I love you.

Loved the Daryl/Andrea pairing. Love that he was straight up with her. I can see them developing a really strong big sister/little brother vibe. I'm also glad she got him to shoot the zombie. It was the humane thing to do and you know Daryl can make 800 arrows in his sleep out of a twig, a rubber band, a Q-tip, and some of Merle's meth.

Glad we're finally resolving the Dale/Andrea feud, but Dale has really been pissing me off lately. Give Carol a gun even though she can't shoot it and always has 384,924 people around her protecting her, but don't give Andrea a gun even though someone seems to have slipped zombie dust down her pants, since she gets attacked so often. I'm glad he finally gave her her gun but he was really sanctimonious about it. I get that he's worried about her, but it comes off as him being extremely condescending.

Whatever, I just want kick ass Andrea to take over from now on, please, and I'll forgive the writers for everything else.

Am I the only one who thought Carol was going to end up shooting Dale by accident? Am I the only one who thinks Carol is going to die soon? I honestly thought that after Dale left she was going to shoot herself. I kinda dig that idea that they finally find Sophia and whoops, Carol kills herself beforehand.

Every title of every single TWD thread should be: Lori, shut your ass the fuck up!

[rockin01]

The good:
I liked Shane in this episode, perhaps more than I have since the start of the season.
Finally, Glen was given some lines!
Great, suspenseful scenes at the school.
Darryl's scenes (fast becoming my favorite itchy ass redneck of all time) with Andrea...nuff said.
Hershel.
Maggie.

The bad:

T-Dog still is a cardboard cutout in need of some character development, stat!
The school scenes really stretched suspension of disbelief in far too many ways: The conveniently varying speeds of the zombies (those sprinters from last episode should have caught Shane and Otis easily); Otis escaping the zombies and making it to the locker room; Shane's leg injury that mysteriously didn't seem to hamper his escape, etc.
The increasing predictability of the writing- who didn't know that Otis was going to miraculously come to Shane's aid? Who didn't know that the medical supplies would arrive just in the nick of time? Please don't make this series just like all the other blase fare we are subjected to on a daily basis.
Lori...nuff said. "Maybe it would be better if Carl dies...really? Bitch, pleeeeze! Oh, and now Shane can stay? Someone, anyone, please kill her, stat!

The ugly:

The dumb-ass decisions these people continue to make on a regular basis. "Let's go looking for Sophia in the woods...in the dark"...really? And then Dale (aka The World's Worst Lookout) traipsing off to go searching for the searchers...huh?
Losing Otis- I liked the guy.
Now that we know how Shane escaped, I'm sure we can count on the writers to up the Brood Factor for Shane until we all puke.
Speaking of pukers, could Andrea be more of a bitch to Dale? "Do you forgive me?" "I'm trying." Give me a break!

I like this show, really I do. It has the potential to be groundbreaking entertainment, but they are fumbling the ball way too often. I guess I was expecting more.

[SDcat2009]

Oh Shane, Shane, Shane. W.T.F. Poor Otis. What a horrible way to go. I think Shane is in a bad bad place now. And 100% more interesting.

I'm sorry but Lori continues to baffle and irritate me. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't she spend last episode complaining about how the vet wasn't good enough to save her son. Then tonight she talks seriously about whether it's even worth it to save him. After her husband has given up so much blood to help save him? She's an idiot.

Strangely (and I hate myself for typing this) Lori seems to have more chemistry with Shane and it's like they can communicate in a way Rick and Lori can't. Whatever. I'm done with this triangle. Shane and Lori need to die already. Maybe a murder/suicide pact.

Shane and Rick communicate better than Lori does with either one of them. Lori can become a Walker Lunchable any time now.

Edited by SDcat2009, Oct 30, 2011 @ 9:31 PM.

[BmoreCrabby]

Rick/Lori/Carl: I. DON'T. CARE. God, this has gone way too long.

Lillywhite

THIS. Times 1,000,000. If the entire Grimes family was torn apart by zombies I would do a Snoopy dance in my living room. One more tearful monologue about the uselessness of life or the beauty of deer, and I'm going to hang myself like pinata zombie.

[billyez]

Before you completely condemn Shane claiming that "he did it to save himself" don't forget that he stuck around to gather the medical supplies from Otis rather than just high tailing it out of there. He could have just dropped Otis with a bullet and then left.

I thought that was kind of the point, though. The fact that he didn't kill Otis with a bullet to the head and spare him the pain of being eaten alive and becoming a zombie is what could be deemed the cruelest part of the act.

It's uncontroverted that Shane loves Carl. Therefore, it's not too surprising that he Shane would take the supplies after downing Otis. But I don't think that really enters into the equation of whether Shane was right to leave Otis to die there rather than kill him. This also presumes that there was no way both of them were going to get out of that situation alive, but it appears that's the case.

[thuganomics85]

"What is wrong with you, guys?" People have been asking that for quite some time, Darryl, but thanks for voicing it on the show, buddy. That man continues to be awesome. Like getting more of his backstory and his reaction to the hanging zombie was priceless.

Ah, now I remember: Shane is a dick. I can darkly understand why he did it, but leaving him to get eaten alive was horrible on so many levels. At least shoot him in the head so he doesn't have to suffer, jackass. RIP Otis. In just two episodes, you were more likable then the majority of our "heroes." It sucks that it happened because of a freaking accident and he was actually trying to be a good man, and didn't even had to risk his own neck, but I guess good guys are going to suffer in this show. I hope Lori at least regrets her comments last week now.

Hell yeah, Glenn! Finally get screen time and it's with the new, awesome hot Maggie. Really looking forward to seeing more of the two together.

Carol still doesn't know how to shoot a gun? WTF, lady?!

I really hope Dale/Andrea quit bickering; it's getting tiring. Actually, I really hope Andrea is going to shape up soon, because that is getting tiring.

So, when things go south, Lori likes to take a defeatist attitude. I really hope I'm actually suppose to like her.

What the hell was the in next week's previews? That was insane!

Edited by thuganomics85, Oct 30, 2011 @ 10:02 PM.