142 replies to this topic

[TWoP Howard]

From TWoP and ZAP2it:

Nucky arranges a risky liquor delivery; complications arise in Nucky's federal case; Jimmy finds a new mentor; Margaret makes a confession; Lucy struggles in solitude; Van Alden wrestles with his conscience.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Nov 4, 2011 @ 9:42 AM.

[AimingforYoko]

Wow and last week we thought Richard was having a bad day. Van Alden, Worst. Day. Ever. Although, for better or worse he has a daughter.

[Midge]

Interesting ep. I'm a little unsure why Lucy didn't go to a neighbor. Or at least pound on the wall. Still, I felt for her.

Gotta say, I loved Rose's response. I knew she was there the minute I saw the lemons, but I was afraid she would roll over.

So who is still on Nucky's side? Anyone except Chalky?

Nucky and Margaret really need to go ahead and get married already. They for all intents and purposes are anyway. Interesting that Margaret sees Irish-man as the bad guy, not Nucky.

Edited by Midge, Oct 30, 2011 @ 9:14 PM.

[Redtracer]

Wow, Rose is a biter. That was actually kind of awesome.

I really don't know what Van Alden was expecting. The boarding house "mix-up" a few weeks ago, and then the bizarrely panicked phone call tonight. Rose might be a little weird, but she's not stupid. She was going to show up eventually.

So, uh, congratulations?

[buttercupia]

Wow, go Lucy. Good job, honey. And good job, Rose.

That episode was tremendous. I can't wait to watch it again!

[A Beaverhausen]

I fell sorry for the baby girl. Rose and Van Alden would be weird parents. But then the alternative is Lucy.

[3 is enough]

Even if Rose hadn't found out, there was no way Lucy was going to give up that baby. Interesting twist, though.

[Pallas429]

I sense that the bearing of her baby alone, may be the making of Lucy. Or perhaps the return to the stronger part of whoever she was before she arrived in Atlantic City (or New York), failed at show business and took up with the County Treasurer. Her quiet pride when she told Nelson, "I did it myself" was revealing.

Edited by Pallas429, Oct 30, 2011 @ 10:19 PM.

[lucindabelle]

I was so relieved that nothing awful happened to Lucy and we avoided the cliche of her being dead, or the baby being strangled by the cord, or Lucy going nuts and killing the baby. this was way more interesting.

Lucy has not leaped all at once into the role of Madonna. which bodes well for her and Nelson. Loved her kissing the teeny one.

So, I was wrong, and clearly Margaret is attracted to Slator. and he knows it. Her sex scene with Nucky looked so. dull.

Nucky should marry her, it would be safer too since she then could never testify.

I don't get why you would slaughter a tref animal in your kosher freezer. it would make the knife and the whole place unkosher, wouldn't it? wouldn't he have been more use alive, anyway?

things are not looking good for Nucky.

[chlyn]

For once I would like to see a deal go through to completion. Has there ever been a successful delivery? Seems like they always get hung up in the woods by something.

What is Sleater doing messing around with a maid? Doesn't he want to succeed in Nucky's organization? Kind of hard to do that with a family hung around your neck.

Edited by chlyn, Oct 30, 2011 @ 10:18 PM.

[not laura]

I loved Lucy giving birth. Nelson being clearly overwhelmed when he first saw the baby was sort of adorable. Lucy kissing her was a beautiful scene. I really felt like she loves that baby. No way will she give her up. I think she will stay with Nelson.

[Jersey09]

This show is so intense.

I love what's going on with Lucy. She was so vile last season. I really thought she was going to end it all when she was teetering at the top of the steps a few epis back. I hope she comes out strong as a baby momma. I think the actress portraying her does a great job. Nelson is such a nut job. He is so conflicted about everything.

I loathe Margaret. I wonder if she's going to hop in the sack with the Irish boy.

Everyone turning against Nucky makes no sense to me. It seems like it just came out of left field.

[Pallas429]

From the get-go, Owen has known how to fluster Margaret -- or been uncanny at doing it, anyway. In their first conversation in the doorway, he got under her skin at least three times: when he did not (seem to) recognize her as the lady of the house; when he (seemed to) wonder if Katie might also be her daughter, and with his entire air of impudent self-deprecation, that seems more to underscore that he casts a droll eye on everything: including the person he's addressing.

Tonight it seemed he landed another one, with his remark about "knowing your situation." A phrase risible enough under the circumstances, but also often used as a euphemism for being pregnant and unmarried. A Dangerous Lad. He likes making bombs.

[terxav]

So Margaret wants Sleator, well then leave Nucky already. That whole you don't feel like you are here, no Margaret you are thinking of someone else not Nucky.

I really hope Nucky is able to make the attorney gen. pay for backstabbing him.

[Scoutlet]

I never dreamed Lucy would be my favorite character in an episode. I was scared for her, then thrilled. It was really beautifully done.

Owen is a real bastard. For some reason he enjoys torturing Margaret. The guy has a huge chip on his shoulder.

I didn't think the Nucky/Margaret sex scene was so bad. It seemed like fairly routine sex, but not without tenderness. And he used the phrase "made love", which seems a little too modern for the decade, but whatever.

Clearly the Kosher Butcher was being selective about which rules to follow. He was just testing Jimmy, and Jimmy delivered.

Edited by Scoutlet, Oct 30, 2011 @ 10:53 PM.

[happyhippy]

Wow, Paz, I didn't know you had it in you! What a scene! My heart was just breaking for her, having to go through labor and delivery all alone like that. Hope that fever isn't indicative of anything life-threatening. Infections after birth can be quite serious, even in this day and age. And go Rose! What did you expect, Nelson? Stupid man. You're in quite a pickle, aren't you, you holier-than-thou, hypocritical nutbag.

I'm at the point where I don't much care what happens to Nucky. I'm not sure where the writers are going, but I'm not finding him to be a very sympathetic character (sucks that everyone is turning on him all at once, but they are making it quite clear that he's all about the almighty dollar and having every minute favor under the sun returned, and though I know you have to be a bit heartless to succeed, it's bound to bite one in the ass as it's doing him right now). Nor Margaret. Even though I keep reminding myself that she's a badass who can fool a room full of agents.

I'm really loving Jimmy right now, though I'm fearful of him getting into the heroin trade.


I need to keep a flow chart for all of the characters and relationships. I've been watching every episode twice and I still feel like I can't keep up.

[Contralto]

Loved Rose cleaning up the place, tenderly dabbing Lucy's brow, and biting Nelson. I wish they'd just drive him away and raise the baby together, a la Enemies: A Love Story -- Rose could introduce Lucy to Jesus, and Lucy could introduce Rose to fun.

Rose has a lovely voice.

Isn't Gillian undercutting Jimmy by acting as his puppetmaster in front of a witness? And couldn't the Commodore write on a slate with his left hand? Is he mentally incapable, or is Gillian keeping him incommunicado?

Green shoes in court? Way to show you're not serious.

I want Margaret's big pearl eardrops.

[Sanveann]

I can't figure out why someone else in the building wouldn't have heard Lucy shrieking and come to see if she was ok ... Let alone why she didn't call for help.

She was so sweet with the baby. On the other hand, I know how desperately Rose wanted to be a mother .. so I sort of hoped that Lucy wouldn't be too attached. Though there's a difference between adopting a baby and raising a baby that your husband sired in a one-night stand ... Now that she knows the truth, she might not be terribly eager.

Good to get some insight into Margaret/Owen. I think she's too smart to do anything about her attraction to him, but well ... Hard to blame her for feeling it ;) I also agree with whoever posted last week that she probably sees a lot of the man who knocked her up as a teen when she looks at him. Hope we eventually get some more backstory there.

[happyhippy]

I can't figure out why someone else in the building wouldn't have heard Lucy shrieking and come to see if she was ok ... Let alone why she didn't call for help.

I wondered that too, until the little boy shut the curtains on her, and then it hit me. I think they're in the kind of neighborhood where everyone minds their own business, full stop. Plus Nelson has probably scared the bejeezus out of anyone who may have tried to chat with him.

[not laura]

I hope Lucy's fever isn't serious. I think she loves that baby and I'm pleased with her and Van Alden's character growth this season. They seem to be a lot more comfortable with each other. Maybe now that he knows Rose doesnt want to raise what she likely sees as a physical representation of his sin, he might stay with Lucy after all.

[El Guapo]

Every time Gillian plants a wet one on Jimmy's lips, I turn into Eli: "That situation isn't normal! It never was!" I guess she wanted to show Whiskered Uncle Junior who was the true power behind the scalper.

I think they're in the kind of neighborhood where everyone minds their own business, full stop. Plus Nelson has probably scared the bejeezus out of anyone who may have tried to chat with him.

Heh. Damn right. No one wants to see what kind of torture dungeon that bug-eyed fanatic operates in the basement.

Great scene with Second Thought Rose coming to the boardinghouse. It short-circuits what I thought would be a long drawn-out game of "Where did you get the baby?" and makes the situation much more interesting. Good on the writers for going in an unexpected direction.

Many other cool things about the episode. I enjoy how Meyer Lansky is always about business, always keeping the peace so as to make an extra buck. Great conversation between Nucky and the attorney general. "What have you got to hide, you've only been in office three months?!" Daugherty in real life was so spectacularly corrupt, that it probably only took him three weeks to generate indictable offenses. And the kosher killing as well: "We've all got rules."

But when they told me 'bout their side of the bargain / That's when I knew that I could not refuse / And I won't beat any Mann Act/
now the lawyers want to wear their green shoes.

[avaleigh]

Every time Gillian plants a wet one on Jimmy's lips, I turn into Eli: "That situation isn't normal! It never was!" I guess she wanted to show Whiskered Uncle Junior who was the true power behind the scalper.

Loved Jimmy being all 'yeah that's my mother, she likes to do that.' Plus Dominic Chianese's character seemed totally unfazed so it made the moment more funny for me than chilling the way that it is when they're alone.

I don't really get Gillian's strategy in being so open about being the power behind the throne. Does she really want him to get the reputation among the gangsters for being a mama's boy? Ouch too re: the old bird comment.

The Nucky/Margaret sex scene was uncomfortable to watch. No wonder she's all bothered by Owen. Nice touch too to have her sweeping when they have their scene together. It's like she never quite seems like she's the lady of the house when she's around him.

I wonder why Margaret doesn't think that marriage is an option with Nucky? Is she saving money so that she can up and run one day? He seems disappointed that she's still using birth control. If he's acting that way why doesn't he try to marry her already. At this point I feel like it needs to be addressed on the show even if it's just him telling another character that he'll never remarry or whatever.

I laughed over how incredulous Richard was that a guy like Lansky was sent along as muscle.

I actually thought Nelson was hallucinating for a second when I saw Rose sitting on the bed. I just couldn't believe that she was there and helping Lucy. I was shocked by her reaction and I cheered. At least Lucy will get to keep her baby. She was great in the scene but I'm not convinced she'll be a good mother especially not to a girl. Hopefully I'm wrong though.

Nelson is such an idiot. As angry as Rose is she seems like she's the forgiving type. I can't believe that I feel this way but I would rather see him with Lucy.

Edited by avaleigh, Oct 31, 2011 @ 1:04 AM.

[not laura]

I'd rather see him with Lucy too. I feel luke they're helping each other grow. Nelson will probably consider leaving to run after his wife, but Lucy will beg him to stay, tell him it's his child too, and he'll end up staying with her in the end.

Is it weird I REALLY want Nucky to find out Van Alden and Lucy have a baby together? I'm dying just imagining it.

Edited by not laura, Oct 31, 2011 @ 1:20 AM.

[little ghost]

Is it weird I REALLY want Nucky to find out Van Alden and Lucy have a baby together? I'm dying just imagining it.

I kind of hope this happens too, maybe he'll see Lucy strolling around with the baby one day on the Boardwalk.

I'm still kind of nervous that she'll die (that fever) or something else will prevent her from keeping the baby before the season ends.

[Niwind]

I wonder why Margaret doesn't think that marriage is an option with Nucky? Is she saving money so that she can up and run one day? He seems disappointed that she's still using birth control. If he's acting that way why doesn't he try to marry her already. At this point I feel like it needs to be addressed on the show even if it's just him telling another character that he'll never remarry or whatever.

I don't think Margaret ever thought that marriage was an option with them. From the beginning, as she told the temperance lady, she believed that she was becoming a kept woman and that was the arrangement. From Margaret's point of view, she knows that kept women don't get wifed, and she thinks that Nucky still hasn't gotten over the death of his wife.

Nucky is still disappointed about the birth control but he also knows that she doesn't want to carry his children, which I think contributes to his growing distance from her and why he doesn't marry her. I think in his mind, he doesn't understand how she can carry two children from a man who basically beat her ass constantly but won't even consider for a moment carrying his, not really noticing that Hans at least married her. We saw tonight he doesn't keep much faith with organized religion, so I don't think getting married is something that he thinks is necessary. And Margaret isn't pushing it so...

I am curious to see, if he ever finds out, what his reaction would be to Margaret's attraction and possibly sleeping with Owen. I don't think it would be good but would he totally blame her or would he blame himself partially for what happened? Would he get rid of Owen, even if it put him at a disadvantage? Or would he totally pull a Bartartus (sp?) from Spartucus and not really say anything, even though it bothers him a great deal.

Edited by Niwind, Oct 31, 2011 @ 2:00 AM.

[Dame]

For all Owen's bluster, I think the one to watch out for is Katy. She's obviously got quite a bit of resentment towards Margaret. And she knows just enough (or thinks she does) to try and use it if Margaret pushes her much farther. Given Margaret's nearly transparent jealousy about Owen, it seems it'll be coming to a head fairly soon. I've been watching Season 1 again, and seeing how relatively subtly they introduced key players like Daugherty, I'm wondering if "A Dangerous Maid" might not come into play soon.

Margaret's too entrenched in Nucky's dealings to leave, especially for someone like Sleator, and I see her as too proud to even admit to him that she's hot and bothered. Plus, he's already toying with her for asking him if he's in the habit of messing about. Even if she weren't looking out for her kids, if she left, Nucky would be backed into a serious corner because of how much she knows.

Lucy's gone from unbearable to tolerable, which is saying quite a bit. A previous poster said it though, that going through the birth of her daughter alone might be a turning point for her.

I'm glad that Rose isn't in the dark anymore. She's a dry woman, but even she doesn't deserve to have religion thrown in her face while her husband is embezzling from his job to pay for a one night stand. I loved that all Rose's tidying up was played a bit for horror (or maybe that's just me since it's Halloween).

[Rockbell]

Loved Jimmy being all 'yeah that's my mother, she likes to do that.' Plus Dominic Chianese's character seemed totally unfazed so it made the moment more funny for me than chilling the way that it is when they're alone.

Well, Uncle Junior is really in the inner circle now: he knows the Commodore's health condition, he knows who scalped who, and he knows about Gillian's "not right" attitude with her son. He seemed sanguine, or world-weary, like he's seen it all. But he definitely made note of that moment. And it seems Jimmy knows more than anyone how weird that is, and felt the need to explain it.

A previous poster said it though, that going through the birth of her daughter alone might be a turning point for her.

Alone! Now that's a trouper. Up to that point, she just wanted that baby out of her. But now she's over the moon in love. Things are not working out for Nelson as planned.

[boewyr]

I think 'Then Remus can go fuck himself' was the best line of the night.

This show has started wowing me week after week. Last season was hardly bad, but they've really stepped up their game this year. They set up the board and now they finally get to play. I like characters I hated and hate character I liked. It's all very good.

Margaret is going to be so bitter by the Depression she'll make Betty Draper look sweet by comparison.

[Mathematician]

Isn't Gillian undercutting Jimmy by acting as his puppetmaster in front of a witness? And couldn't the Commodore write on a slate with his left hand? Is he mentally incapable, or is Gillian keeping him incommunicado?

If he can't speak, chances are the language center of his brain has been destroyed or harmed in some way. So he can't write with his left hand, he might be able to think what he wants to say but thinking and speaking are handled by two parts of the brain. He's not locked in, that is he's not in a vegetative state and unable to communicate with the world around him even though he's aware of the world around him (terrifying prospect); and he might recover it's not unheard of. If he does recover I would expect for his language to be heavily compromised.

[achtfach]

I had my suspicions before, now I am convinced, Margaret and Owen crossed paths over on the Emerald Isle. I could also hazard a guess to the nature and consequences of that encounter...Owen is dangerous, and I would suspect his interest in Margaret goes beyond getting under her skin, or (back) into bed. I have noticed that we only see Owen make overtures toward Katie when he knows Margaret is within eye or earshot. For all the perceived jealousy and shortness Margaret has shown toward Katie I think at least some comes from genuine and deserved concern.