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Lana Parrilla as Evil Queen Regina: The Only Happy Ending Will Be Hers


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#781

kennyab

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 2:08 PM

I'm copying this post i made in the episode discussion--my interpretation of the dream scene, which also pertains to the ongoing discussion here.

in re: her comment about wanting to win for a change:

Because of years of abuse by her mother, Regina equates "not being a victim" to "having power over others." And deep down she knows this, as indicated by her internal monologue via the dream. She justifies this to others by placing blame onto them. I think this episode really pointed out why she wasn't content with just dooming Snow. While she's fixated on Snow, she used that as justification for creating a reality in which no one could hurt her. The lynch mob in the nightmare was a Greek chorus highlighting Regina's paranoia and insecurity. That's how she viewed people even before enacting the curse. Now she's just given everyone justification for feeling that way.


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#782

MorninStar

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Posted May 7, 2012 @ 2:14 PM

While she's fixated on Snow, she used that as justification for creating a reality in which no one could hurt her. The lynch mob in the nightmare was a Greek chorus highlighting Regina's paranoia and insecurity. That's how she viewed people even before enacting the curse. Now she's just given everyone justification for feeling that way.

My father was a paranoid manic depressive and this is the way he would think. He felt that everyone was 'out to get him' and so it justified everything and anything he did to anyone else.. legally, morally, financially. He brought many people to ruin with his persecution complex; thinking he had to 'get' everyone before they 'got' him.
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#783

DollEyes

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 1:05 PM

Not suprisingly, Regina's scheme to kill Emma backfired on her, but chances are she not only won't take responsibility for her actions, she'll blame someone else for them, ala her scapegoating LittleSnow for Daniel's death instead of the real guilty party- Cora, her own psychotic mother. Expecting LittleSnow to lie to her father and to Cora just to cover her own ass WRT a secret that the child herself only learned by accident was batshit crazy on Regina's part. The way I see it, Regina was just as much to blame for LittleSnow's being conned as Cora was, if not more. Regina should have warned LittleSnow about how dangerous, manipulative and downright evil Cora was. LittleSnow didn't know what Cora was capable of, but Regina did, which was why she should have told LittleSnow not to trust Cora, no matter what she said or how nicely she said it because chances are it would have been lies anyway.

When ti comes to Henry, I believe that Regina wants to love him, not that she does. The only way Regina could possibly change my mind would be if she not only says that she loves Henry, she would have to make a grand gesture to prove it-namely, giving up her powers to save him. Knowing Regina, she wouldn't make this decision willingly at first, she would have to be convinced to at least consider it and only one person could do that-Daniel, or rather, his spirit. He could remind her that his death was not Snow's fault, tell her that he doesn't know what's worse; Regina's enslaving, terrorizing, torturing, raping (in Graham's case) and/or killing innocent people or her using Daniel as an excuse to do it. Daniel could also explain to Regina that for a woman who claimed that she wanted to be nothing like her mother, she has apparently chosen to become just as bad or even worse than she ever was. Daniel could tell Regina that her sacrifice wouldn't be just for Henry's sake or even Daniel's, but her own by imploring her that if she wants to honor Daniel's memory, then she should save a life for a change, not destroy it.

Edited by DollEyes, May 13, 2012 @ 1:06 PM.

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#784

Tricksterson

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 4:46 PM

One of the interesting things about Regina is that she's periodically tempted to do the right hing. You can see genuine regret in her when she scapegoats the genie and abandons Jefferson in Wonderland. But she always resists. I suspect it will be the same with Henry. Part of her will want to do whatever is necessary to save him. I suspect she'll come so close people will be yelling "Do it!" at the screen but in the end she'll fail the test again and Emma will have to save the day.
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#785

metaphysicist

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 11:51 PM

All in all a pretty bad year for Regina.
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#786

legaleagle44

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 12:43 AM

Once again Lana Parrilla proves to me that if anyone deserves an Emmy this year, she does. That scene with Regina crying in Henry's bedroom because she thought she'd lost him for good after the curse had finally been broken actually had me feeling sorry for her. And then, of course, that final smug look on her face when she realized that Gold had introduced magic into Storybrooke reminded me of why she's everyone's favorite villain.

Go, Lana!
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#787

ChelleNic

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 9:37 PM

Once again Lana Parrilla proves to me that if anyone deserves an Emmy this year, she does. That scene with Regina crying in Henry's bedroom because she thought she'd lost him for good after the curse had finally been broken actually had me feeling sorry for her. And then, of course, that final smug look on her face when she realized that Gold had introduced magic into Storybrooke reminded me of why she's everyone's favorite villain.

Go, Lana!


Yes, legaleagle44, everyone was on their A game last night but after that scene, I just wanted to stand up and give Lana the slow clap! The fact that she could go from grieving mother to the Evil Queen's "Smirk of Evilness" was just awesome...loved it.

Edited by ChelleNic, May 14, 2012 @ 11:50 PM.

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#788

Aliasscape

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Posted May 14, 2012 @ 10:49 PM

A commenter on TV.com described it this way:


OuAt
Lana pulled off that look so well. The puffy red eyes mixed with the evil grin. Like a kid who has to get a shot at the doctor and then realizes after all the stinging, she's getting a lollipop.



Which I think says it perfectly.
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#789

Toughie

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 4:22 PM

Here are my thoughts about Regina in the finale and whether or not she really loves Henry.

I do think Regina loves Henry. But, that doesn't mean that love is pure. Or honest. Or kind. Her love for him is selfish. Is tainted. She loves Henry like people love their cars. He's a possession. She craves his love because of how it will make her feel.

She took care of him, fed him, changed his diapers, provided for him so that she would feel needed. So that she would feel loved.

Her selfish love for him made her fear his absence. Like she told Emma, as long as Emma is around Henry will never be hers. Hers. Like a possession.

However, I think the finale opened up her eyes to this. Throughout the whole episode you can obviously see she's in fear for Henry's life. She's scared he'll die. And she genuinely cares about him. Even when talking about magic and love potions and etc with Gold, she isn't as interested as she normally would be. She's impressed that Gold was able to bottle true love, but that's as far as her interests go. Normally, she'd covet that sh!t and want it for herself. But here, she only wants to retrieve it for Henry.

I think throughout the episode she sort of went on some internal journey of how she felt about and treated Henry. Saw that her love for him was on a selfish level and she is transforming. By the end, she tells him she loves him. And I think that is the first time she ever said it and honestly meant it. It wasn't an "I love you because you make me feel loved." It was an "I love you because of you." Ya know?

I think if Henry could forgive her and they could rebuild a relationship, that Regina would change. She'd become more. She'd be on her journey of "redemption."

But, he's only a 10 year old kid that is dealing with a lot of crazy sh!t in 5 seconds and can't give Regina what she needs.

Even though Regina is a grade-A b!tch, I really felt for her when she went home to Henry's room and cried. And it wasn't because she "lost" him but because she essentially created the problem herself. All his life she's taken Henry for granted. Nearly losing him, she realized what he actually means to her. And she knows she blew it and to come back from that would take a miracle.

Or magic. She had a moment of clarity, of understanding. There's a true opportunity for her to change. And then comes the magic. We see her smiling. Evil smile. This is a very important moment for Regina. Because it's this moment where she goes back to her usual ways. Of power. Of hunger. Of selfishness.

Her love for Henry will continue on through S2 but it won't be innocent and pure and selfless. It'll be the same ol, same ol. And this time, her vendetta is against his birth mother. Regina will forget about Snow. Her new focus, drive, and anger will flow towards Emma.

Snow may have taken Regina's love away from her. But Emma has taken her son. And for that, there will be some serious hell to pay.


Just my thoughts.
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#790

MorninStar

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 4:41 PM

Wow Toughie, well said.

I know someone who I suspect is a sociopath.. or something. He has numerous children by various women. When he talks about his children he profusely professes to love them (in particular the child he has contact with at any given moment).. but when they are out of sight they are out of mind. He doesn't contact them.. send them anything or even admit they exist. At one time he was living with the mother of his 3 or 4th child and he had the name of that child tattooed on his arms and as he was discussing this one child and how much he loved him I asked about his other children and he acted as if they didn't exist, although he knows I know about the other children. The disconnect (to me) is really weird.
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#791

Irish64

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 5:20 PM

Respectfully disagree with both of you on this (with some qualifications.) Regina DOES love Henry, deeply and passionatley enough to mouth the words.." I am sorry." She also told the "savior," the truth to save his life,teamed up with said savior who she hates almost as MarshaBradySnow and offered to go fight the dragon for him..things she would never have done for anyone else. For God's sake when he died she grabbed onto Dr. Whale...she has avoided physical contact (except of the sexual kind) from EVERYONE (when Katherine hugged her she looked shocked, surprised and pulled away in discomfort.) Look at Rumple, who everyone says is madly in love with slightly dim Belle..she comes back from the dead, tells him she has been Regina's captive, and all she gets is a, "Oh hey, yea, I'll take care of you but first THIS!" But still people say he is CRAZY about her??

Is it a TV version, sanctified, idealized love? Absolutely not! She uses him to fill a HUGE void and hole in her (but he keeps rejecting her and yet she keeps coming back for more...) and she is hyper possessive, selfish and neurotic with it comes to him. All of those not attractive things, but that does not mean she does not love him.

Her evil deeds elsewhere don't matter, she loves the rotten kid..not in a healthy way that is for sure, but love it is, just the same.
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#792

Toughie

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 5:24 PM

I'm not really sure what you disagree with me about. Because I said that Regina does love Henry. Just that the love is not a pure, innocent, and selfless love.

You said yourself,

She uses him to fill a HUGE void and hole in her


So, what exactly do you disagree with me about? That she wasn't changing in the finale?

edit: why is he a rotten kid?

Edited by Toughie, May 16, 2012 @ 5:24 PM.

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#793

Irish64

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 10:15 AM

Toughie, I disagree with you on one minor point, (and I may be reading into what you were writing) in that you seem to say that Regina was just going through the paces and that she loves him like a car. She does feel "possessive," of him, but that is different and really stems from her past where she was utterly alone (much of it because she herself made isolated herself in her Castle of Doom and killed her father/butler.)If we are to believe the show's narrative, and that the rules in their fairytale b.s. world was that you got "one," true love(which apparently requires no effort from the participants, Snow and Charming are in love and that is that and the whole world has to celebrate it and suffer with them as it is somehow the ultimate in pureness??) you can see why Regina feels isolated (and why she hates Snow so much, I am a viewer and all the yack about Snow and Charmings' twu wuve annoys the crap out of me) and why she wants to feel love somehow. I have no doubt she didn't know what she was getting into when she adopted the kid, and did go through the paces (which we all do when we become parents, you know what you have to do and you do it.) But eventually, taking care of a child your love grows and grows. I don't in anyway is Regina's love for Henry dissassociated with him that she treats him like a material possession and for show.

I do agree that this could be the start for her arc next year, actually if Henry would return her love she would change. Unfortunatley, Henry is a kid, and she is an adult, even though Regina is still a teenager inside, and it is not his responsibility to help her make her way in life. I also agree that the magic is just a way to get her back to square one and that Emma is going to be the brunt of her anger, not the insipid Charmings.

While I don't think it is Henry's responsibility to help Regina change, I feel he is a brat that she raised him, took care of him and while not affectionate, is his mom. Yet as soon as he can find his bio mom he is all, "Yea, I wanna hang out with the chick that takes me for ice cream," with out one shred of quilt. He reads a goofy book (which he is way too old to be obsessed with) and he assumes his mom is the queen and cuts off all emotional ties to her, EXCEPT for when she builds a Playhouse of Doom for the kids of town or gives him an outdated video game. I dont think the kid is bad, but he is a brat, and he has no adults ever say to him, "You know, your mom loves you and you hurt her by doing this to her. She is not perfect, she is cold and unlikeable to everyone in town, but she IS your mom!"
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#794

Toughie

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 10:50 AM

No, I didn't mean that she loved him solely like one loves their car. I meant she treats him like a possession. I do believe she loves him, like I said... but that love is selfish and more on how it can help her, how it can make her feel. It isn't for Henry's benefit (until the finale), it's for her benefit. I really do not believe that love for him truly grew until the finale. You know the whole "you don't realize what you had until you lose it" thing? That's like Regina with Henry. IMO.

If you still disagree with that, OK.
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#795

Irish64

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 11:24 AM

No disagree at all. I do think that Regina used Henry to have the "unconditional," love that she needed, a love that she didnt have to work for, but was just "there." I think it wasn't until the finale, that we actually saw her put someone else before her unselfish needs..i.e. putting the curse at risk, actually taking responsibility and not blaming others, etc. I do think that she loved him before the finale (we saw her hug him when she saw August talking to him, saw that she was at least trying to make up for destroying the book etc.) I do think the finale she finally "pulled her head out of her ass.."

And I do think that a mother who loves her kid is a much more dangerous enemy to have then a woman who lost her lover and blames another. I think she will play a game so not to attack Emma in front of Henry, but she will be working against her, and by extension Snow and Charming (I hope he keeps his mouth shut, he is so boring he is not needed in the storyline, let the ladies fight it out. )
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#796

ViciousCircle

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 11:36 AM

I agree that at the end she absolutely did love him unselfishly - she risked and lost everything she had worked for by telling the savior the truth. When she was in Gold's shop and he said "no offence, your majesty, but he is her son" Regina didn't object at all - and to me that, plus letting Emma go to Henry's bedside first, says that she has accepted Emma as Henry's mother and accepted that that relationship is essential for Henry's well-being. I don't think she ever even considered that possibility before - Emma came, she felt threatened, and since both Emma and Regina have the same tendencies of push-me-and-I-push-back, that's what they both did for a huge chunk of the season with neither of them acting at all times purely out of Henry's best interests. Emma was doing it too - she wasn't always acting out of what was best for Henry but out of how much she hated Regina and just wanted to beat her. In Apple Red as Blood, Emma figured out she wasn't Henry's only mother, and in the finale, Regina figured out that she wasn't either, and that Emma was actually good and maybe even best for him. She came full circle from when she sacrificed the life of Henry Sr. in pursuit of power and happiness to the point where she sacrificed her power and happiness for Henry Jr., and I don't see that growth just being cancelled and then the whole get-Emma story repeated for another entire season. So I don't think Regina's rage is going to turn on Emma - the only rage we saw her show during the whole rescue mission was a flash about Rumpel, when she realized he had been setting up everything for her to lose Henry from the start. She seemed to me to have fully accepted Emma's role as legitimate, but Rumpel's is another story and that's what I though she was evil-grinning about when the magic cloud appeared - it fully clicked to her that Rumpel has been playing her like a pawn, including setting her up to love and them lose Henry, so that he could get power, but she's going to get some too and make him pay. Rumpel is also a safer target for her rage than Emma since Henry will not have a problem with Regina going after him - Henry himself stated that Gold was worse than Regina before he even knew who Gold really was, so Regina can play at hero by going after Rumpel whereas going after Emma has no upside for Regina.

Edited by ViciousCircle, May 17, 2012 @ 12:21 PM.

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#797

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 11:44 AM

And I do think that a mother who loves her kid is a much more dangerous enemy to have then a woman who lost her lover and blames another


Oh I know. That's why I think Emma is gonna have it so much worse than her mother did when it comes to Regina's vendetta.

At least they're keepin' it in the family business.. hah
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#798

Princess Aldrea

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 12:05 PM

She seemed to me to have fully accepted Emma's role as legitimate, but Rumpel's is another story and that's what I though she was evil-grinning about when the magic cloud appeared - now she can go after Rumpel for being the mastermind behind everything and using her like a pawn.

It would be really rich for Regina to suddenly decide that her own choices were all Rumple's fault because he gave the the option to use the curse. I don't see how she has any room to blame Rumple at all for what happened. For risking Henry's life and stealing the true love potion, maybe, thus forcing Emma to use True Love's Kiss and break the curse but definitely not because Regina decided to use the curse in the first place.

so Regina can play at hero by going after Rumpel whereas going after Emma has no upside for Regina.

Regina playing hero will never work. Everyone knows who she is now and what she did to them and they'd see it as evil going after evil. Besides, since when has she ever wanted their approval?

Yet as soon as he can find his bio mom he is all, "Yea, I wanna hang out with the chick that takes me for ice cream," with out one shred of quilt. He reads a goofy book (which he is way too old to be obsessed with) and he assumes his mom is the queen and cuts off all emotional ties to her, EXCEPT for when she builds a Playhouse of Doom for the kids of town or gives him an outdated video game. I dont think the kid is bad, but he is a brat, and he has no adults ever say to him, "You know, your mom loves you and you hurt her by doing this to her. She is not perfect, she is cold and unlikeable to everyone in town, but she IS your mom!"

Why should he feel guilt for spending time with his biological mom? It wasn't like she was trying to take him away from Regina or anything and Regina never seemed hurt by Emma's presence, more annoyed.

Maybe Henry wouldn't be so obsessed with that "goofy book" if he wasn't in a town where nobody had ever aged his entire life and he's the only one who ever is supposed to move up a grade. How, exactly, should one healthily cope with that if not by turning to a book that perfectly explains everything that is happening?

I can't blame Henry for assuming his mom is the queen because he is right. And if you find out that your mother is such a terrible person as the queen (who kills, kidnaps, tortures, and rapes whenever she has the urge to as well as enacting this terrible curse on everybody forever) then why is it at all "bratty" to be so horrified and repulsed that you cut emotional ties? To me, this seems healthy. Imagine how screwed up Henry would be right not if he had strong emotional attachments to his complete monster of a mother? I also don't think he expressed an emotional connection to her when she built that playground (because she did so to destroy his favorite hang-out with Emma) or gave him the game (which she did to make him stop sulking about the fact he wasn't allowed to see Emma).

And who knows? Maybe Archie told him that in therapy. But I don't think it would have made a difference nor should it have. The fact that Regina took care of Henry doesn't even begin to make up for everything else she did and continued to do (she tried to put his mothre in a coma forever because she's too petty to let someone else love Henry!) and Henry isn't obligated to love her just because she loves him.
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#799

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 12:36 PM

Henry's not obligated to love Regina, but she's the one who was there, and that generally has tremendous impact. A case can certainly be made that it's Regina's fault that she was the one who was there - if Emma hadn't been for all intents and purposes an orphan in this world, then maybe she wouldn't have given up Henry. Then again, maybe Henry would never have existed if Regina hadn't cast the curse. Whatever - just for the purposes of this discussion, let's say that it's definitely Regina's fault. But I'm reminded of real-life cases of custodial kidnapping. If it takes a long time to find the children, then when they're found, they generally side with the kidnapper parent because that's the parent who was there, even though the other parent was robbed of their chance. Regina is evil, but she was never neglectful of Henry. You don't see most kids raised by mobsters disowning their fathers either.

I think that's one storyline we'll see next season. Emma has had it easy. She's been the Disneyland mom, more of a cool aunt than an actual mother. Regina is the one who did all the hard and all the practical stuff. Even in the episode before this one, she was at Henry's school bringing him the lunch he forgot. Emma has a lot to learn, and I think Henry's going to wake up to that reality now that he's (presumably) living with Emma, and appreciate what Regina did a little more. It's the sort of thing a kid wouldn't necessarily think about until he no longer has it (or sees other children who don't have it), but once a kid doesn't have it, they notice fast. Which is not to say that Emma won't learn and get better, but it's going to be a bumpy journey once she has to start disciplining the kid, remember his lunch, watch over his schoolwork, and so on.

I don't actually think Henry hates Regina. He didn't say he loved her back, but I thought his face was conflicted. He's basically pushed the ultimate boundaries here - worked to break her curse, embraced another woman as his mother - and saw that she's not angry with him, that she loves him. Parrilla did lovely work in managing to tell him that she loves him with a sincere smile on her face, rather than tears.

And I would love to know what would have happened if Jefferson hadn't interrupted Regina and taken up the rest of her time that she had with Henry, because I'm pretty sure she would've kissed him before leaving. I think that's why the show had Jefferson interrupt Regina right then and there, to keep it from being her kiss that woke him, but I bet next season Rumpel or the Blue Fairy has the ability to confirm whether or not Regina's kiss would have woken him too.
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#800

ViciousCircle

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 12:52 PM

It would be really rich for Regina to suddenly decide that her own choices were all Rumple's fault because he gave the the option to use the curse. I don't see how she has any room to blame Rumple at all for what happened. For risking Henry's life and stealing the true love potion, maybe, thus forcing Emma to use True Love's Kiss and break the curse but definitely not because Regina decided to use the curse in the first place.

Nobody likes being a pawn, regardless of whether they had a choice or not - see also Cinderella's choice. And Regina was a pawn - she had the curse and first decided NOT to use it, trading it for the sleeping curse. There was a point where she did not want to go that far, even without knowing it would require killing her father to do so. It was Rumpel who made sure the Sleeping Curse didn't work and Charming and Snow got together. So whether she should be or not (should being a term I tend to think irrelevent when it comes to emotion anyway - people feel how they do, not how they should, and it's how one chooses to act on one's feelings where the concept of "should" becomes applicable), I think she would be pissed about that, because nobody likes being played and he played her on that, as well as on bringing her Henry with the sole intention that she eventually lose him. Noone, evil or not, would take kindly to that, either. Regina is actually the last person I can think of who would take being played lying down, and played she was from long before she cast the curse. Is she responsible for her choices? Yes, but Rumpel is responsible for making the offer and making sure that no lesser evils worked so that he could have the curse cast.

Plus it is just boring to me to have her go after Emma - Emma vs. Regina happened already for an entire season, and Regina lost, and I'd rather see something different than some infinite loop of the two of them repeating their history ad nauseum when we already know how it will turn out and have already seen it. (They can keep the snarking at each other, though; that can be entertaining.) And if she goes back to going against Emma, it negates the growth of the character established in the finale and the entire theme of her choice with Henry Sr. versus her choice with Henry Jr., so what was even the point of it all?

Edited by ViciousCircle, May 17, 2012 @ 1:23 PM.

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#801

Irish64

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 12:57 PM

Interesting points all. I agree both with all of you so I don't know how next season will play out, if it will be Regina vs. Emma again, or Regina vs. Rumple or both. I didn't think of all the points Vicious made of Regina finally realizing Emma is his mom, too. I do know that the show knows the two have amazing chemistry (no insult to the Snow actress but the Regina and Snow fights just dont have the emotional weight or the sizzle of a Emma vs. Regina fight) as the finale was all about them. I would LOVE a "Ms. Swan, we don't like each other but unfortunately we are stuck with each other. I propose this, we keep our animosity out of the picture but both you and I have a bigger problem GOLD. And if you think I am a bitch, wait until you get on the wrong side of that little maniac!"

And are we so sure that Rumple wasnt behind a lot of what made Regina, Regina. Her choices were her own, but we have seen enough that Rumple knows the long con. They hinted that Cora made a deal, and what was that deal. Did Rumple give up part of his Dark Power to Cora, with the caveat that she would pass that on to her child (or that her child would somehow take it.) Do we know how the stable boy got there and fell in love with Regina, etc. I agree with Vicious that Regina did finally catch a clue and went all Evil Queen when she said "GOLD, he manipulated all of US!" Maybe Henry is more then just a pawn to get Emma in town, maybe he has some value to Gold. God help him though if that is the case with both Regina and Emma kicking ass.

Interesting point also that Regina and Emma are too sides of the same coin. When somone pushes they push back. They keep their feelings under wrap and dont let anyone get close, etc.
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#802

ViciousCircle

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 1:11 PM

And are we so sure that Rumple wasnt behind a lot of what made Regina, Regina. Her choices were her own, but we have seen enough that Rumple knows the long con. They hinted that Cora made a deal, and what was that deal.


I can't wait till we find out what Rumpel's relationship with Cora was. The man is all about the long con, and he knew he needed a person with both a massive amount of hatred who still loved one other. I just can't imagine Mr. Centuries-of-Planning not taking an active part in making sure he would have such a person when he needed it, and such a person doesn't come along every day. How would he have pulled it all off, I don't know, but the man knows his long-game and he's never left anything to chance as far as we've seen.

It will be kind of awesome if Cora is the wife who left him, and part of their dealings after he decided to be the Dark One involved trading her some anti-aging magic. If Cora was Bae's mom who left them, it would give Rumpel motivation to want the child and husband she didn't abandon, Regina and Henry Sr. (also a coward like Rumpel), to suffer like he and Bae suffered. Seeing some early Rumpel/Cora interactions would be fun, because she seemed a serious bad-ass and because Carlyle and Barbara Hershey would be fantastic to see act together.

Edited by ViciousCircle, May 17, 2012 @ 1:13 PM.

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#803

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Posted May 17, 2012 @ 2:06 PM

And are we so sure that Rumple wasnt behind a lot of what made Regina, Regina. Her choices were her own, but we have seen enough that Rumple knows the long con. They hinted that Cora made a deal, and what was that deal. Did Rumple give up part of his Dark Power to Cora, with the caveat that she would pass that on to her child (or that her child would somehow take it.) Do we know how the stable boy got there and fell in love with Regina, etc. I agree with Vicious that Regina did finally catch a clue and went all Evil Queen when she said "GOLD, he manipulated all of US!" Maybe Henry is more then just a pawn to get Emma in town, maybe he has some value to Gold. God help him though if that is the case with both Regina and Emma kicking ass.

Yes, I've wondered that every since the Stable Boy ep. We know Rumple is all about the long con. He goes about things like a chess game except with people's lives. So I think he most definitely had more of hand in these people's lives (esp Regina's) than we have been shown.
I think what I find interesting is during The Stable Boy ep, Regina talks about her mother being a daughter of a miller and the deals/sacrifices she made to become who and what she was then. If Regina is in fact the child that Rumple was promised originally but apparently never received, then that adds another level entirely and could be a reason why he picked her as his pawn. Of course Regina is no more innocent in the things she's personally done to people but maybe she was set up to always be the fall guy in the end.
We know that Cora will be back next season so I can't wait to see if any of this comes true. I would love to see Barbara, Robert and Lana all in a scene together....all that evilness trying to one-up eachother.
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#804

MorninStar

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Posted May 18, 2012 @ 1:56 AM

It was Rumpel who made sure the Sleeping Curse didn't work and Charming and Snow got together.

Do we know this? I wasn't aware that we knew who made the apple/sleeping curse. The apple had belonged to the blind witch.. do we know who made it or the curse Maleficent used on Sleeping Beauty, which I assume was different than the apple sleeping curse as the apple had not yet been bitten into. I have been wondering if any of these witches (or even the fairies) can make their own curses/'blessings'.. they obviously use magic and magic objects.

In any case, the show seems to be all about people being conned. Rumple was conned into taking on the Dark One curse as well.

Regina makes conscious choices in what she does. She is not under a curse.. and you can see on her face that she deliberates and chooses to do what she does. What I really struggle with is the idea that anyone who is simple/kind/loving/innocent one day could flip a switch and be evil the next. Yes, some people might flip out for a short period of time after a trauma, but psychopaths/sociopaths almost always show signs of anti-social behavior in early childhood, they don't turn into sociopaths after a traumatic incident as adults. (Of course, we are dealing with an Enchanted world) Regina was young but well out of childhood when the incident with Daniel occurred and if Regina was honest with herself she would know that Cora never would have allowed Regina & Daniel to be together and she couldn't have kept it a secret forever. It's really a sad situation, and it will be interesting to find out more about Cora.
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#805

metaphysicist

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Posted May 18, 2012 @ 5:16 AM

Yes, some people might flip out for a short period of time after a trauma, but psychopaths/sociopaths almost always show signs of anti-social behavior in early childhood, they don't turn into sociopaths after a traumatic incident as adults.


Serial killers are psychopaths, organized crime bosses are sociopaths, evil villains are narcissists. Narcissistic Personality Disorder describes Regina's behavior.

From Wikipedia, "Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder[1] in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity. This condition affects one percent of the population.[2][3] First formulated in 1968, it was historically called megalomania, and it is closely linked to egocentrism."

Further from Wikipedia, "The symptoms of Narcissistic personality disorder can be similar to the traits of individuals with strong self-esteem and confidence; differentiation occurs when the underlying psychological structures of these traits are considered pathological. Narcissists have such an elevated sense of self-worth that they value themselves as inherently better than others. Yet, they have a fragile self-esteem and cannot handle criticism, and will often try to compensate for this inner fragility by belittling or disparaging others in an attempt to validate their own self-worth. It is this sadistic tendency that is characteristic of narcissism as opposed to other psychological conditions affecting level of self-worth."

I think Lana must have read a number of texts on NPD before taking on her roles. She has had it 'spot on'.

As far as this relates to Regina's parenting skills.

"Children of NPD parents can be affected in many different ways. Some become narcissistic themselves, and the cycle continues. Others lack a healthy sense of narcissism, and pathologically care for the needs of others at the expense of themselves. It's also common for kids of NPD parents to develop anxiety disorders, depression, and other mood disorders. After all, they grew up in a household where their self worth was constantly under attack, and where they never felt safe." from Suite101: Parents with NPD: What Happens When a Parent Has Narcissistic Personality Disorder? | Suite101.com http://naomi-rockler...4#ixzz1vDLRhQ3a

We can surely conclude that Cora had NPD, so that as her child, Regina, compensated by becoming narcissistic, herself. Henry probably exhibited "anxiety disorders, depression and other mood disorders."

A parent with NPD certainly will not offer the child unconditional love.
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#806

Princess Aldrea

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Posted May 18, 2012 @ 12:09 PM

Runple doesn't need to have anything to do with the creation or implementation of the sleeping curse. He ensured it didn't work by freeing James from the forest and letting him track Snow.
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#807

MorninStar

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Posted May 18, 2012 @ 1:03 PM

I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist, but having come into contact with several of these persons over the years (and interest in this show) I have done quite a bit of reading on this subject. From what I gather, all serial killers are psychopaths, but not all psychopaths are serial killers nor are they all violent. Some are involved in 'white collar' crime, some are 'lazy' and con people into giving them places to live, food, etc.. so they do not have to work. Psychopath is an 'old' term, clinically speaking.. which became Sociopath which is now often referred to as Asocial or Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD) which includes aggressive narcissism (Cluster 'B' disorders DSM-IV in the manual of mental disorders.) Many experts believe they make up 1 - 4% of the Western population. In any case, the traits associated with these disorders exhibit before adulthood, and I completely agree that Cora seems to be at the root of Regina's personality disorder, whatever her particular diagnosis is.

What niggles' at me in 'Once' is that they are making a case that Regina became this way after one particular incident, and just can't buy that. Growing up with a mother like Cora, there would most likely be some genetic predisposition along with an abusive upbringing.. and the event with Daniel was a tipping point. In other words.. there is a 'nature' and a 'nurture' component to these disorders. But that is in our world.. maybe it's different in the Enchanted lands. ;)
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#808

TWoP Tennison

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Posted May 18, 2012 @ 9:24 PM

A little reference to "real world" psychology is fine, but make sure the discussion is still actually about the show and the character.

#809

Toughie

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Posted May 19, 2012 @ 11:13 PM

What niggles' at me in 'Once' is that they are making a case that Regina became this way after one particular incident, and just can't buy that


I don't think the show is making the case that it was one incident that made Regina that way. By making Cora be a freak herself and murdering her daughter's lover right in front of her, I think, shows that it wasn't one incident at all. It's just the one incident that drives Regina to absolute vengeance.
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#810

Princess Aldrea

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Posted May 21, 2012 @ 11:54 AM

I don't think the show is making the case that it was one incident that made Regina that way. By making Cora be a freak herself and murdering her daughter's lover right in front of her, I think, shows that it wasn't one incident at all. It's just the one incident that drives Regina to absolute vengeance.

And it took years for her to get from blaming and resenting Snow to killing Leopold and taking over (which would have been much easier when Snow was too little to rule or start a rebellion) so watching Snow and Leopold be happy while she has a cold marriage and a duty to mother Snow probably pushed her even further.
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