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7-7: "Noretta" 2011.10.24


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#31

Bunny LaJoya

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 12:28 PM

The problem with the character of Kevin is that I think Kal Penn can be funny but the character of Kevin is so boring, unsexy, and unfunny.

And yet I do think that Kal Penn is adorable.

#32

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 12:38 PM

First off, it is not psychologically normal to end up with someone like your parent. Unless you buy into Freud... well, he is a New York psychologist, so maybe.

Second off, they really cherry picked things to make it seem like there were similarities. Marshall is nothing like Lily's dad aside from a love of board games because he's dependable and responsible. And the "Lily is like Marshall's dad" thing was even more dumb. Like someone said, apparently she's like him because she eats sandwiches and rubs her own feet. I guess most of us are like Marshall's dad then!

The Nora date was slapstick humor that I didn't find funny. And pathetic Ted was ridiculous. I still like Nora though, and I agree with another poster who said that Barney was treating her really badly. Nora seems much more like Ted's type of girl than Barney's, IMO.

It was also pretty dumb that Ted was asking random strangers to go with the concert before Robin. Unless that was future Ted exaggerating, but that seems to be a pretty common fan excuse for bad writing lately.

#33

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 12:40 PM

I really don't know why Kevin puts up with Robin. I mean, it's a reasonable request to ask that people wear pants when in the living room (but to be freaked out after Don? Really?) and Ted didn't see the spilled coffee but when Kevin - who hadn't complained about Ted's own lack of clothing - pointed out that Ted was doing worse and Robin is all "So? It's his apartment" then it's ridiculously unfair. I get that Ted is her friend but to have such blatant double standards?

First off, it is not psychologically normal to end up with someone like your parent. Unless you buy into Freud... well, he is a New York psychologist, so maybe.

Not at all? Not someone that is freakishly like them but what's wrong with sharing a few positive traits (other than the creepy factor which is subjective)?

Edited by Sarah1281, Oct 25, 2011 @ 12:41 PM.


#34

CantThinkUpName

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 12:50 PM

I really don't know why Kevin puts up with Robin.

That is the problem with his character for me. I don't know why he likes Robin, he obviously knows she has unresolved issues for Barney, and he seems to despise her friends with whom they share a codependent relationship.

#35

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 1:12 PM

Agree, agree, agree. What a bad episode/past 2 seasons!

I totally went "WHAT!!!" when Robin told him that Ted could basically just wander around flashing visitors because he's in a bad place. While there is some precedent to that idea (Marshall not wearing pants when he was unemployed/hiding his job at Goliath National), Robin defending Ted by saying, "So what, it's his apartment" was just ridiculous. She is a baaaaaad gf. At least say something along the lines of , "Yeah, I know that it's gross, and creepy, but do you mind just letting it go for a little bit? Ted's in a bad place right now." That, while still somewhat unfair, would have at least validated Kevin's feelings.

And I have no idea what was up with Lily and Marshall finding the other to be like their respective parents. They've been together HOW long, and you expect me to believe that no one's pointed that out before (especially given the "Spoiler" episode)??!!

So here's a question - sorry for the potential offensiveness. Nora strikes me as a romantic, old-fashioned kind of girl (waiting 2 months before having sex with Barney, loving all the serenades/flowers/chocolates as his way of wooing her, etc), right? So I find it hard to believe that such a girl would be fine with having sex either doggy style or anal (if I am interpreting Barney's "I turned it around" correctly) as opposed to face to face for their first time. And I also didn't understand what the point of turning her around was, anyway, because the show made it clear that it wasn't that she looked like his mother, it was that she sounded/acted like his mother. Which wouldn't really be changed by not facing her.

Aaaaaarrrrrggghhhh. I am thinking too much about this crappy show - far more than the writers invested, probably.

Edited by Nighteyes2, Oct 25, 2011 @ 1:13 PM.


#36

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 1:16 PM

As I may have said before, Kevin represents the viewer and our point of view.

#37

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 1:20 PM

And I also didn't understand what the point of turning her around was, anyway, because the show made it clear that it wasn't that she looked like his mother, it was that she sounded/acted like his mother. Which wouldn't really be changed by not facing her.

Well if he literally saw Nora turn into his mother like Marshall, Lily, and Ted all seemed to do with their own parents then it's too weird to look at her when having sex.

#38

Tyrone Biggums

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 2:17 PM

As I may have said before, Kevin represents the viewer and our point of view.


In that case, he should just turn around and walk out on this unfunny shit, because that's what I'm about to do.

#39

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 3:33 PM

"Hey kids, let me tell you a funny story..."
"About how you met our mother?"
"No, about fucking people while thinking about your parents. Why are you looking at me like that?"

#40

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 4:29 PM

As I may have said before, Kevin represents the viewer and our point of view.



That may be, but the writers are going about it horribly incorrectly if that's the case. Kevin is someone who risked (and continues to risk) his license, livelihood, and reputation to date someone who doesn't even treat him very well. If he's supposed to be representing the viewers, then he's doing a piss-poor job.

I can't think of a single person, at least on these boards, who would risk everything the way that Kevin has done, for so little in return. It's not even as if he didn't know what he was getting into - he HEARD Robin talking about her ongoing feelings for Barney, the co-dependent nature of the group (how intrusive they are into each others' lives, how they are unable to do anything, including tell a story, without dragging the rest of the gang into it), and still chose to go out with her. If Kevin really is supposed to represent the viewers, then I feel that that's a huge middle finger to the viewers - "Hey, we know that you think that Robin has feelings for Barney, that the group is dangerously codependent, and that they are immature idiots, but you still can't get enough of us, and want to keep coming back, doncha?"

Honestly, if they needed an outsider to represent the viewers' feelings, then they should have someone that the gang has known for a while (i.e. sibling, knew them back in the cool days of S1/2, Carl the bartender), then have that person forced to hang out with the group for a week or so (visiting NYC, needing somewhere to stay as they transition between places for a move, whatever - the show's done far less believable plots/plotholes before). Then, that person can be forced make these observations that Kevin's been making, as well as stating that they used to be much cooler/funnier/mature before, and now they're a bunch of manipulative, whiny, childish idiots. THAT would be a good representation of the viewers' feelings about the last few seasons.

Actually, thinking about that, the person that would totally be able to do that is Carl the bartender - god knows that they hang out there enough that he's probably got a decent enough feel for what they're like (as opposed to just a person that you see intermittently).


"Hey kids, let me tell you a funny story..."
"About how you met our mother?"
"No, about fucking people while thinking about your parents. Why are you looking at me like that?"


Hee. So true. Although, given the stories, I would love it if the series ended with Child Services coming to the door, asking about these inappropriate, slightly pornographic stories that these kids have been listening to for years(!)

Edited by Nighteyes2, Oct 25, 2011 @ 4:35 PM.


#41

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 5:50 PM

Actually, thinking about that, the person that would totally be able to do that is Carl the bartender - god knows that they hang out there enough that he's probably got a decent enough feel for what they're like (as opposed to just a person that you see intermittently).

Or Victoria, which is why I felt she needed a third episode before she could make the co-dependence claim. Now that I think about it, maybe it's interesting that Ted wasn't there when Kevin accused the group of that quality.

Well if he literally saw Nora turn into his mother like Marshall, Lily, and Ted all seemed to do with their own parents then it's too weird to look at her when having sex.

Then he'd still be doing his mother from behind. To break the spell, Nora had to say absolutely nothing during sex.

#42

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 6:56 PM

I assumed (but may have been wrong) that notwisconsin meant that Kevin represents the viewers' POV in an inadvertent, ironic sort of way. He points out a lot of what's wrong with the characters (and by extension, the show). I don't think this would intentionally be intended to reflect our viewpoint, since as viewers surely we are intended to love the show and all of its characters...

Let's face it, the magic is gone, and it's so far gone that it would be virtually impossible for the show to get it back. And they certainly don't seem to be trying.

#43

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 7:16 PM

"Hey kids, let me tell you a funny story..."
"About how you met our mother?"
"No, about fucking people while thinking about your parents. Why are you looking at me like that?"


Isn't this just the absolute truth? This episode was disgusting.

I would love it if the series ended with Child Services coming to the door, asking about these inappropriate, slightly pornographic stories that these kids have been listening to for years(!)


What the hell is wrong with FutureTed. I can only assume he is perhaps the worst Father on TV ever, after episodes like this and others, like "The Bracket".

#44

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 7:27 PM

I don't like Nora anymore either. I've had enough with her and Barney's relationship. I just feel like there's no chemistry there at all, and nothing about their bad date was funny. Haha she has a silver tooth and haha a rat fell on her head. Not funny at all. And what was with the singing so random and out of place.


And maybe it's just left over judgement from watching her crappy character on GH, but I found her reactions tonight really terrible and kind of strange. There is NO doubt she is a gorgeous woman....but what the hell was up with that face she made when she fell?? I can't even explain it, it was just weird. And then her reaction to the rat? I mean I know it was supposed to probably be outrageous and "kooky" but it just looked stupid. And the rat was on her head right? So she took a bath and very obviously washed everything BUT her hair. I won't even comment on the singing.

Just....weird. I think I am done with this show too. I don't think I laughed out loud once.

#45

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 7:46 PM

And the rat was on her head right? So she took a bath and very obviously washed everything BUT her hair.


Ha! That annoyed me even more than 'I turned IT around.' They can't even be bothered to think their premises through anymore. But then I guess they don't have to - their ratings are still high and they're pre-renewed.

#46

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 8:24 PM

Then he'd still be doing his mother from behind. To break the spell, Nora had to say absolutely nothing during sex.

That would have meant that Marshall would have kept turning from Lily's dad back into Marshall whenever he was quiet and that didn't seem to be happening. I'm guessing that the resemblance wasn't as bad from the back (he could have pretended it was someone who just sort of looked like his mother) and Barney's eyes very well might have been closed.

And then her reaction to the rat? I mean I know it was supposed to probably be outrageous and "kooky" but it just looked stupid.

How the hell did a rat get on her head when they were just standing in the middle of a sidewalk?

#47

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 9:16 PM

Not at all? Not someone that is freakishly like them but what's wrong with sharing a few positive traits (other than the creepy factor which is subjective)?


The whole "you end up with someone like your parent" is a Freudian concept. It's pretty much thought now that the partners we choose are based more on how often we see someone and how physically close they are (kind of unromantic, but true. ;)) As well as the reinforcement you get from seeing that person and anticipating seeing them.

Now, I think a few shared traits is probably common, but not to the extent where you start thinking of your partner as your parent and getting incestuous vibes like this episode was implying.

I should also point out that in Freudian theory it's always the opposite sex parent. So Marshall thinking Lily is like his dad is just plain silly.

Edited by vienibenmio, Oct 25, 2011 @ 9:18 PM.


#48

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 10:27 PM

So this show has moved from texting your friends emoticons of what your shits look like to imagining your partner as your parent when you want to have sex ("incest is best when you can't get the rest") story lines?

Ugh.

(I will say, though, that when Nora & Loretta were singing "My Favorite Things" the two have a really nice moment of harmony.)

#49

Tyrone Biggums

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 10:48 PM

I'm starting to think we should start using shit emoticons for each episode of this show going forward.

What type of shit was this one? (Hey, you started it, show.)

#50

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 11:15 PM

That would have meant that Marshall would have kept turning from Lily's dad back into Marshall whenever he was quiet and that didn't seem to be happening. I'm guessing that the resemblance wasn't as bad from the back (he could have pretended it was someone who just sort of looked like his mother) and Barney's eyes very well might have been closed.

I was exaggerating with the first sentence when explaining why the "turning around" wouldn't work. Nora and Loretta's body and skin tones are entirely different. With Lily, Marshall, and Ted, they moved on when they realized they didn't care. Not when they closed their eyes or saw the back of the person. I can always chalk it up to Barney lying.

Edited by CantThinkUpName, Oct 25, 2011 @ 11:17 PM.


#51

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 11:23 PM

Not at all? Not someone that is freakishly like them but what's wrong with sharing a few positive traits (other than the creepy factor which is subjective)?



The whole "you end up with someone like your parent" is a Freudian concept.


I don't totally buy into Freud because of the simplistic and deterministic nature of his theories, but I do think there is some truth to some of the patterns of human behavior that he points out. As in, I do think we tend to get into relationships with people like our parents, but not because of some unresolved sex issues that Freud attributes it to. Different schools of thought might have different takes on it, but most essentially say that we tend to seek out the same relationship dynamics - healthy or not - that were established with out with our parents. As a cliched example, the girl with daddy issues who gets in relationships with guys who make her feel worthless because she never felt like she was good enough for her father. This doesn't necessarily mean that the person has traits - like appearance, interests, hobbies, etc - of your parent. It's just the relationship, such as one being a pursuer the other a distancer, a giver and taker, the way you communicate, etc. If you have a healthy relationship with your parents then most likely the relationships you form will be healthy, if it was dysfunctional then your romantic relationships will be dysfunctional. Depending on what orientation you ascribe to, you may need to work through, differentiate, or confront anxieties in order to get past the pattern of dysfunctional relationships. Personally I can also see getting into relationships with people who are also just similar in personality to your parents, its obvious that their influence on your upbringing is pretty significant.

And I can't believe I just went on that long about a psychological concept that's not even relevant to this episode. The whole Oedipus complex crap was just used as a silly and stupid gag, it seriously did not make any sense in the context of the show.

Honestly, I don't know how any of the cast gets through a work day. I could've sworn that Jason Segel was cringing at some of his lines. Notice how they never have those moments where you see them genuinely laughing at each other anymore? I'm thinking it's because there isn't an ounce of cleverness or wit in the dialogue anymore, and they never just let the "comedy" breathe. It's a shame, such wasted talent. At least the Friends cast was getting paid at least $1 mil/episode.

And with maybe the exception of Marshall and Lilly, none of the relationships seem natural. Something about Robin and Kevin is really off to me, their affection feels forced. Even Ted and Robin, it felt very contrived to me the way Robin was massaging Ted's back. And there is zero chemistry between Barney and Nora. I melted when Barney would act serious towards Robin, like when Lilly forced them to have dinner and Barney was weirding Robin out by his sweetness. The way he acts with Nora reminds me of how he acted with Brittany Spears, when he was trying to prove to Ted how sickening relationships are.

I sort of wish that writers/producers had to work hard to getting renewed every year...

#52

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 1:24 AM

1. Was it just me or was Nora WAY more English in this episode than in previous ones? I don't remember her using words like "shag" and "loo" before....it just felt artificial and weird (much like the entire show for the last 2 seasons.)

2. I think that the convo between Kevin and Robin mirrors the convo between Ted and Victoria--the purpose is to convince both characters that they need to break away from the group. Which makes me think that the end game isn't going to be Barney/Robin, despite the anvilicious hints at that all season. Because the only reason I can see for Robin to leave the group is because Barney marries Nora (Ted would do it because he wants to date the Mother).

3. I echo everyone else in asking why Kevin would be in to Robin. I mean, the whole having her pine after Barney is such bullshit anyway because we all know girl's more likely to go a firing range than cry beneath her desk, but even if we buy that...he *knows* how much of a mess she is. Why would he get into a relationship with her now? It makes more sense for him to strike up a friendship with her, let things grow organically and eventually she leaves the group so she can be with him. Getting them together so quickly just felt like a rush job.

4. Barney's behaviour in this episode really bothered me. As some other commenters have pointed out, he was totally atrocious to Nora, trying to get her into bed the entire evening. His character development has been so spotty...when he was in love with Robin, we see him growing and changing. But then they break up (for a totally idiotic reason) and he goes straight back to being his old self, apparently without repercussion. Then Nora, and again, all these changes but this episode made it feel like all the changes were a lie; that deep down, he's still the same pig. Which makes me wonder why Nora (or Robin, for that matter) would want to be with him.

5. I agree with others that say that Lily really needs better storylines than "Oh, I'm pregnant. It's HILARIOUS." because a. the othering or pregnancy--treating it like it's this exotic, weird disease that women occasionally get--is gross and offensive and b. because I've seen these plots before on like every comedy show every. Give it a rest already!

Edited by Cyranothe2nd, Oct 26, 2011 @ 1:25 AM.


#53

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 3:38 AM

I think this was my least favourite episode of this show yet. It was so extremely clumsily written and directed. I agree with Cyranothe2nd that Barney's character development makes no sense. If he's not even going to be romantic and sweet around Nora then I don't see the point of her at all. And this may actually be the most un-romantic he's ever been IMO: Being determined to have sex with the girl you're allegedly in love with, despite the fact that she is not in the mood at all? Then finally completing the act while making sure you can't look her in the face, because apparently it's all about friction and not about feelings at all? Ugh. Ugh, ugh, ugh.

And I really do need a good reason why Nora is around, because as has already been mentioned, I don't see any chemistry there. Also:

but what the hell was up with that face she made when she fell?? I can't even explain it, it was just weird.

ITA, mybabyaidan. I couldn't for the life of me figure out what kind of emotion she was trying to convey there.

And that's another thing that bothers me: Nora's character seems to be written and directed in a way that makes it impossible to take her serious. The singing has already been mentioned and that was just ridiculous: No sane person would burst out into song in a situation like that. Also, I would think thank that falling and breaking your one front tooth would be a pretty big shock to a person - not to mention witnessing a suicide. Yet the show very demonstrantly focused not on Nora's character, but on Barney's who was oblivious to anything she might be going through emotionally and mainly concerned with getting his freak on ASAP. Even friggin' Zoey got more motivation and depth to work with as a character.

Are they doing this in order to make us root for Barney and Robin? I suppose that's possible, but that's a terrible way of going about it. The way Barney is treating Nora is certainly not making me want to root for him to be the soulmate of anybody. And also, if we're supposed to root for Barney and Robin then it's like the writers are openly admitting that Kevin is ultimately of no importance to Robin. Which is something I feel like a smart guy like Kevin would have figured out by now.

Edited by Nofret, Oct 26, 2011 @ 3:51 AM.


#54

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 6:59 AM

The singing has already been mentioned and that was just ridiculous: No sane person would burst out into song in a situation like that.


While I agree with this, I feel compelled to point out that most don't seem to mind when Barney does it.

#55

Tyrone Biggums

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 9:45 AM

While I agree with this, I feel compelled to point out that most don't seem to mind when Barney does it.


I do. I watched the first half (or so) of "Girls vs. Suits", then turned it off. I still can't watch it, to this day. In fact, that might have been where the show jumped the shark.

At least in The Office, they make singing realistic. Everyone knows that guy who was in a choir or something in college and might want to show that off, to the horror of his friends and acquaintances. Real life doesn't contain choreographed musical numbers that are clearly there to wank the people involved.

Ugh.

#56

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 9:45 AM

While I agree with this, I feel compelled to point out that most don't seem to mind when Barney does it.

When does Barney burst into song? The only song I can remember is his song about how suits are the most important thing to him and that was revealed to be all in his head. I mean, I guess there was that time he was singing to try to win Nora over in the flashback of Robin's therapy but that wasn't just randomly bursting into song. He had come over there to do that to try to win her over by being romantic.

Edited by Sarah1281, Oct 26, 2011 @ 9:46 AM.


#57

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 10:00 AM

While I feel as though it has been at least 2 or 3 times, once is one too many IMO. I am right there with Tyrone Biggums.

#58

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 10:44 AM

Real life doesn't contain choreographed musical numbers that are clearly there to wank the people involved.

And this was realistic because the only singing happened in Barney's imagination. In real life, he didn't declare suits were better. He pretended he didn't care about suits so he could sleep with anti-suit girl.

#59

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 10:44 AM

nanobabes: Fair enough, I've just never bought into attachment theory.

The "bang bang" song is an example of a random song. I guess it's realistic, but that doesn't make it any less obnoxious. "Favorite Things" didn't even work for the situation...

Edited by vienibenmio, Oct 26, 2011 @ 10:45 AM.


#60

Tyrone Biggums

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 10:47 AM

And this was realistic because the only singing happened in Barney's imagination. In real life, he didn't declare suits were better. He pretended he didn't care about suits so he could sleep with anti-suit girl.


They had a musical episode of Scrubs that was the same premise (singing all in the character's head, etc.), and it was equally stupid.

It was just there to wank NPH. The show's frankly kind of gone downhill since, and while this isn't the entire reason, it holds a little blame.