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Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers (Promo talk goes here, too!)


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#1

TWoP Tennison

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 7:55 AM

Mass media mentions and previews aren't considered spoilers on TWoP, so you're free to discuss them openly in this thread.

#2

RubyRose

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 8:00 AM

I brought speculation I made in the general thread, before it closed, over here.

I'm already quite curious about the Sheriff. Even ABC's official website is vague about the Sheriff's identity in Fairytale. They mention he has an easy rapport with the Mayor, but his own moral compass. My guess, is that he is the Huntsman. His Storybrook attire sort of has a certain ruggedness about it, that leads me to believe it could be an adaptation of what the Huntsman would wear.


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#3

tjl

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 8:22 AM

I was thinking he was "The Black Knight". I noticed in the credits that there was a credit for that character so I'm guessing that he's the Sheriff.
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#4

djsunyc

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 8:29 AM

I was thinking he was "The Black Knight". I noticed in the credits that there was a credit for that character so I'm guessing that he's the Sheriff.


Right before the spell took into effect with the Queen standing over Snow White and Prince Charming, a guard (knight) said something to her. He had the same voice as the sheriff.
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#5

Scorpiosrule

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 8:32 AM

Right before the spell took into effect with the Queen standing over Snow White and Prince Charming, a guard (knight) said something to her. He had the same voice as the sheriff.


Really? It sounded like the Black Knight had an American accent and the Sheriff has an English accent.

Damn! Now I can't double check because I deleted it from my dvr and read that there will be no reruns.
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#6

djsunyc

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 8:34 AM

http://abc.go.com/wa...cid=abc_ss1_out

You can watch it on ABC.com

At least I *think* it was the same voice :)
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#7

Scorpiosrule

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 8:37 AM

You can watch it on ABC.com


Thanks djsunyc!

I'll have to check it out after work today.
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#8

RubyRose

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 9:16 AM

Really? It sounded like the Black Knight had an American accent and the Sheriff has an English accent.


I thought at first he might be the Black Knight but changed my mind when he spoke with, what I thought was an American accent whereas the Sheriff had a British, perhaps even Irish accent. I expect TPTB are making the Sheriff's Fairytale world identity a mystery for some reason. I'm going to guess he'll be a romantic interest for Emma and between that and being the "good-guy" sheriff, it would make an interesting conflict if his Fairytale persona was a bad guy.

Perhaps he's also the wolf. TV and movies have taught me that the guy with the beard usually shifts into a canine of some sort.

Edited by RubyRose, Oct 24, 2011 @ 10:18 AM.

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#9

Tzigone

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 9:18 AM

I'd just like to throw the idea out there of the Sheriff being the Magic Mirror. Not that I really think that's so (especially with Regina and the mirror at the end), but the Mirror is who I most associate with The Queen. I think I'll rewatch this afternoon and look for clues on the Sheriff's identity.
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#10

Serenachan

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 10:47 AM

Giancarlo Esposito (sp? the guy from Breaking Bad) plays the Magic Mirror; and at San Diego Comic Con, AH and EK mentioned that the sheriff isn't the wolf. My personal speculation is that he's the hunter.
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#11

ElymianDucat

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 12:11 PM

The preview for next episode shows something that I think is a clue to a question several people in the episode thread have asked: Why did it took so long for the Queen to put the curse in effect? 

In the preview you can glimpse a circe of people around a bonfire when the Curse is being created. This may mean that the Queen spent those 9 months gathering allies with enough juice and enough motivation to back her up. But who could they be?

I counted at least 6 dark robed people around the fire, not counting the Queen's two knights. We know from media articles that both Maleficient and the Witch from Hansel & Gretel have been cast, so that leaves about 4 magical bad guys. 

What other iconic fairy tale villains have magical backgrounds?
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#12

Scorpiosrule

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 12:38 PM

I wasn't sure where to pose this question, and since I'm speculating about it, I figured this might be the place.

Did the showrunners or any article explain how it is that the Queen is still alive? If memory serves, didn't she die, falling over a cliff as an ugly old crone after giving Snow the poisoned apple?

Just wondering.
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#13

ElymianDucat

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 1:33 PM

Did the showrunners or any article explain how it is that the Queen is still alive? If memory serves, didn't she die, falling over a cliff as an ugly old crone after giving Snow the poisoned apple?

The showrunners may be basing most of the characters in the Disney movie version of the stories, but I don't think they intend for the show to be a 100% faithfull to that version. They can pick and choose as they please from all the version of the tales according to what works best for what they want for the show.
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#14

SiobhanJW

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 3:39 PM

I was thinking maybe Henry's dad is someone from the Fairy Tales as well. But he ended up finding a way out of Storybrook(?)? That would be interesting wouldn't it.
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#15

kcblue86

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 7:43 PM

I was thinking maybe Henry's dad is someone from the Fairy Tales as well. But he ended up finding a way out of Storybrook(?)? That would be interesting wouldn't it.

I wondered if he was someone who "bad things" had happened to after escaping Storybrooke.

Random spec re: the wolf. I think it's just a wolf. Since there's no magic in this world, I don't think it could be a transformed character; I think all the anthropomorphic characters became human. Back in fairy tale world, Charming said, "The animals are abuzz with the queen's plan." I think the wolf is just a normal animal trying to help Emma set things right.
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#16

SiobhanJW

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Posted Oct 24, 2011 @ 8:24 PM

I wondered if he was someone who "bad things" had happened to after escaping Storybrooke.


Oh yeah I forgot that was said. Its possible!
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#17

fester01

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 12:27 AM

I was thinking he was "The Black Knight".

Is it wrong that when he was called the Black Knight in the pilot I thought of Monty Python?

Being a fan of the previous show these writers worked on, I can't help but notice some basic parallels between the plot structures.
1. Characters are mysteriously transported from the world they know to a place they cannot escape from (for all intents and purposes, the town is an "island").
2. Loner is told they are special/the only one who can save everybody.
3. Two forces, one definitely evil (MiB, the Queen), one an unknown factor, aka "wild card" (Jacob, Rumplestiltskin/Mr. G) at work for their own reasons.

Seeing these similarities, I can't help but wonder how much of an impact each character's choices in the fairytale world led to their being in the predicament they are in.
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#18

Aurilly

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Posted Oct 25, 2011 @ 2:54 PM

Random spec re: the wolf. I think it's just a wolf. Since there's no magic in this world, I don't think it could be a transformed character; I think all the anthropomorphic characters became human.

I agree, too. If Jiminy Cricket in Maine is a man, then the Big Bad Wolf would have become a human, too (also, which wolf are we talking about? The one with the three little pigs or the one with Red Riding Hood?---assuming they aren't being combined into one character). I'm thinking about it the way Narnia set it up (and there are clearly Narnia references here, what with the magical inter-dimensional transporting wardrobe). Narnia had both intelligent talking animals, and also regular animals who were no different from the ones in our world. I'm thinking the Enchanted Forest's talking animals became human, but maybe the regular ones were transported, too, but remained animals.

What other iconic fairy tale villains have magical backgrounds?

There's the bad guy from Aladdin, who was extra-awful in the original 1001 Nights story. And maybe Queen Mab of the Fae. And even though he isn't magic, I hope they have an episode about Bluebeard, or show the Jabberwocky as a human---that would be some good creepy stuff.
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#19

Scrapper

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 7:27 AM

I also think Sheriff is either Huntsman or Black Knight. I would prefer Black Knight. Seems in the preview that the witch asks Rumble what's up than proceeds to get a bunch of magical villains together to make the curse. It would be great if she recruited not by saying "We will rule the world" but by saying "In that world, we will have happy endings"

Also interesting is when Charming asks if Snow really ruined the queens life she says, "Yes, I did." I wonder if she is just feeling guilt over something small that led to the Queen's life being ruined. Such as Snow like lied about the Queen being unfaithful and she got tossed out.

Lastly, I think Henry's dad is just a human that will prob get thrown in later to either save the day or ruin it. It would make Henry more modern fairy tale like if he was a child of both worlds destined to "save both".
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#20

Tableau

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 3:32 PM

Here's my question: Is Charming's name really Charming? I really hope this isn't the case. I mean, what were his parents thinking?

Then again, he really was never directly called Charming in the pilot except by Rumpelstiltskin and that might have been in mockery. Even during the wedding they skipped over the part where they'd address him by name and Snow White always called him "you". And then with his real world counter part being John Doe, I'm crossing my fingers he gets a real name sometime in the future.
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#21

Tzigone

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Posted Oct 26, 2011 @ 4:57 PM

I'm assuming tv.com is mass media enough not to count as a spoiler - please skip first quote and response if you don't want to read what it says. If I'm notified is is a spoiler, I will edit my message accordingly.


The showrunners may be basing most of the characters in the Disney movie version of the stories, but I don't think they intend for the show to be a 100% faithfull to that version. They can pick and choose as they please from all the version of the tales according to what works best for what they want for the show.

Yeah, from tv.com it looks like Cinderella made a deal with Rumpelstiltskin. And her prince might be named Thomas. The first part of that, at least, is very different. And it also makes me wonder about the timeline there (I'm guessing it was before Rumpelstiltskin was imprisoned). I know someone mentioned the idea of characters gradually getting their own happy endings in Storybrook, so maybe that'll happen then.

Also interesting is when Charming asks if Snow really ruined the queens life she says, "Yes, I did." I wonder if she is just feeling guilt over something small that led to the Queen's life being ruined. Such as Snow like lied about the Queen being unfaithful and she got tossed out.

Well, that only works if the Queen is the ruler and not her hubby (judging from Snow's "she's not a Queen anymore" making that seem recent and not like she was kicked out a long while ago). Of course, I wouldn't put a coup past the Queen. Also, it could be deceptive editing. Don't yet know if this show is prone to that (anyone here remember the ST:Voyager promos - yikes).

Edited by Tzigone, Oct 26, 2011 @ 4:58 PM.

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#22

BellFell

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Posted Oct 27, 2011 @ 7:18 AM

Could Henry be one of the characters as a child, in some kind of time bend? There also seemed to be some focus on the door numbers of the queen and Emma = 108, 109....maybe we need to be aware of them as page numbers of Henry's book?

I cannot stop thinking about this show!!
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#23

L80Bug

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Posted Oct 27, 2011 @ 8:50 AM

There also seemed to be some focus on the door numbers of the queen and Emma = 108,


108 was a shout-out to Lost.
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#24

pitchnduel

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Posted Nov 2, 2011 @ 1:02 PM

I was thinking maybe Henry's dad is someone from the Fairy Tales as well. But he ended up finding a way out of Storybrook(?)? That would be interesting wouldn't it.


My theory: Rumplstiltskin was more instrumental in bringing Henry to Storybrooke than merely locating him and placing him with the Mayor. Emma was very matter-of-fact about the father: "There was one." We know Rumplstiltskin has a certain power over Emma. It seems as if Rumplstiltskin doesn't have the same memory loss issues as the other characters and may not suffer all of the effects of the curse. Henry gives Rumplstiltskin a certain kind of power over the Mayor. Thus, Rumplstiltskin has power over both "principals" in the coming war through their children.

I think Rumplstiltskin can leave Storybrooke if/when he wants. He left ten years ago and used his influence over Emma to seduce her one night when she was 18. Rumplstiltskin is Henry's biological father.

Henry definitely has a conniving edge about him. He gets it from his Daddy...
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#25

Serenachan

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Posted Nov 2, 2011 @ 2:39 PM

That would basically be rape. I don't think the show would go there.
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#26

MDKNIGHT

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Posted Nov 2, 2011 @ 5:28 PM

That would basically be rape. I don't think the show would go there.

I'm assuming you mean it would be rape if he used a spell to MAKE her sleep with him. He COULD have just shape shifted into a handsome stranger and seduced her, which would still be skeevy but not quite rape unless a state has a statutory rape law about 18 year olds. States I'm aware of usually set the age lower than that. Still even though you might be right that the show wouldn't "go there" some Fairytales certainly exceeded what we would now consider appropriate for kids. Donkeyskin basically has a princess trying to avoid incest because her father wants to marry her. So theoretically they could go there if they decided to.
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#27

Tabbyclaw

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Posted Nov 2, 2011 @ 6:36 PM

Brace yourself for crazy, because I have a theory. The Queen is Snow White's older sister. She blames Snow for their mother's death in childbirth, something about having another child tweaked the laws of succession and caused her to lose some of the power/authority that was rightfully hers, and from there the resentment and hatred spiralled until she saw Snow as the focal point for everything bad that had ever happened to her.
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#28

pitchnduel

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Posted Nov 3, 2011 @ 7:22 AM

That would basically be rape. I don't think the show would go there.


In Episode 1, a group of folks (Evil Queen and her minions) were hellbound on murdering a newborn. In Episode 2, a woman stabbed her own father and cut his heart out to serve her purposes. I'm not entirely convinced this show would consider a magical seduction/rape to be out of bounds if it serves the narrative. Much like the murder from Episode 2, the gorier details could be left to the imagination.

Originally, fairy tales often had gruesome plots. An early Italian version of Sleeping Beauty involves necrophilia. Many critics consider Little Red Riding Hood to be a rape allegory. A version of that tale has Red cannibalizing Granny when the Wolf leaves Granny's flesh for Red to consume. And, Bluebeard? Goes without saying...
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#29

Tzigone

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Posted Nov 3, 2011 @ 8:34 AM

In Episode 1, a group of folks (Evil Queen and her minions) were hellbound on murdering a newborn. In Episode 2, a woman stabbed her own father and cut his heart out to serve her purposes. I'm not entirely convinced this show would consider a magical seduction/rape to be out of bounds if it serves the narrative.

This is America: violence is way more okay than sex for "family viewing."
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#30

Sara Sunshine

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Posted Nov 3, 2011 @ 2:05 PM

The Queen is Snow White's older sister. She blames Snow for their mother's death in childbirth, something about having another child tweaked the laws of succession and caused her to lose some of the power/authority that was rightfully hers, and from there the resentment and hatred spiralled until she saw Snow as the focal point for everything bad that had ever happened to her.


I like the theory but she would have to be a step-sister or half sister if the Queen killed her father. Her father was basically rooting for her to enact the curse until he found out he had to die (or at least, that was my interpretation). I doubt he would feel the same way if Snow was his daughter.

I hope whatever Snow did is something spectacular since they keep dragging out the reveal.
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