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Spoilers and Spoilery Discussion: The apple was poisoned?!


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#16321552

TWoP Tennison

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Posted Feb 18, 2014 @ 8:35 PM

Moderator Note: READ ME

 

Do not use initials for names, places or episode titles. This is confusing to new posters. Spell them out. It's Enchanted Forest, not EF, for example.

 

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Edited by TWoP Tennison, Feb 18, 2014 @ 8:37 PM.


#1951

oldandnewfirm

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 8:43 AM

My other theory now is that Bae will turn out to be Henry's father if he can't be August since that would hold off bringing back too many lost loved ones for Rumple right now, and would tie Henry to Mr. Gold besides him having procured Henry somehow.


I was thinking the same thing. I guess my only problem with that theory is that Emma's made it sound as though Henry's dad was an asshole-- probably a married asshole, no less-- and I'd hate to see a character who started off as such a sweet kid turn so awful.
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#1952

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 9:02 AM

Aw, I'm sad to see so many people hate Pinocchio. It was always one of my favorites as a kid. I think because I love Nightmare Fuel and Monstro and kids turning into donkeys scared the hell out of me. That said, I would've been fine seeing Pinocchio as a one off like Hansel and Gretel. I was never expecting him to be a major character.

I hope the writers do it really well so that those of you who are disappointed come around to the idea; I know how much it sucks to hate the resolution of a mystery on a show you like. Plus, the Pinocchio we're all thinking of is pretty much last seen in the pilot. If it plays out that he escapes the curse, that means this Pinocchio grew up in our world, without a father and Jiminy Cricket, and can become pretty much whatever the writers want. He's been a "real boy" for almost 30 years, and whales and donkeys will be left far behind.

Assuming August is Pinocchio, of course, and this isn't some sort of giant fake-out (although I think that's getting less and less likely ....)

Edited by Gin and Tonic, Apr 8, 2012 @ 9:03 AM.

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#1953

Samiwell

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 9:05 AM

The writers already said months ago that someone on forum boards had it right about August. That was before he had a name, much less any revealing qualities at the time. I think this is just a mash up of storylines to throw us off track.

I'm with you, Miss Muffet. This show has become very crafty with the spoiler misdirections. (Not to mention, I have become fond of August and will be very disappointed if he turns out to be Pinocchio.)
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#1954

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 10:02 AM

Although it seems obvious, this doesn't mean that Pinocchio is necessarily all grown up. This could just be a story line similar to Hansel and Gretel or the Hatter's daughter. Pinocchio might even be in Henry's class and we just haven't seen him yet. Sneaky writers!

Still rooting for August=Baelfire ;)
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#1955

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 10:51 AM

I'm firmly in the August= Pinocchio side, but something was nagging at me. If August "never lies" then he'd effectively be lying about his name being August because Gepetto named him Pinocchio.


I think that if August turns out to be Pinocchio, this is less of a lie and more of a misdirection. I strongly suspect that "August W. Booth" is a nom de plume, (a "pen" name or literary double) and not his real name. Pen names are often used to conceal a writers true identity (and can you imagine if he'd introduced himself to Emma as "Howya doing? I'm Pinocchio.") It even sounds like a pen name, as in reality, very few people provide their full legal name in a casual setting and August made sure to do so.

Additionally, I'm toying with the theory that now that August is back in Storeybrooke, the curse is beginning to affect him as well since he is a former Enchanted Forest dweller. Based on photos of a future episode, I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn back into a puppet.

If so, poor Gepetto. His parents and child are puppets again, but this could provide for a more interesting storyline for him in Season 2, as he seeks to undo the magic and restore them.

Edited by Deutsie, Apr 8, 2012 @ 10:35 AM.

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#1956

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 12:07 PM

On the other hand I loved Pinnochio In Outer Space.
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#1957

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 12:25 PM

The reason I resisted August being Baelfire was that unless he remained estranged from his father, he wouldn't be much help to Emma. He certainly couldn't have been actively working for Gold during the 28 years of Storybrooke. Rumpel is using Emma to weaken the curse and achieve his own ends. He also allies with her in a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" way but he's not on Emma's side apart from their shared interests.
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#1958

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 3:39 PM

Aw, I'm sad to see so many people hate Pinocchio. It was always one of my favorites as a kid. I think because I love Nightmare Fuel and Monstro and kids turning into donkeys scared the hell out of me.

Me too, I was five when I first saw the Disney version and I loved it. I actually like it better than some of the pricess movies like Snow White and Cinderella, and I definitively like it better than Alice in Wonderlan, a story that creeps me out (although I enjoyed very much the show's take on the Mad Hatter).

I was feeling very sorry for Geppetto because he lost his son but I'm glad that, if he had to go through that, it was apparently his own choice to separate himself from Pinocchio so he could be saved from the curse.
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#1959

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 4:13 PM

August Wayne Booth and the Pinocchio Connection

Not pupaphobic, and though Iím not thrilled by the August Wayne Booth-Pinocchio connection, Iíll understand it if itís true. Maybe using the last name Booth was the creatorsí way of connecting the famous American acting family - and the infamous John Wilkes - to a song from the Disney version of Pinocchio called Hi-Diddle-Dee-Dee (An Actorís Life for Me). The Booth family connection also would give the creators the option of giving August a devious, conspiratorial side that might find him switching loyalties during the Final Battle of the Storybrooke Civil War.

I suppose weíll have to wait for the creatorsí commentary on the special edition BluRay DVD set to learn what they were thinking about characters in future episodes after the series was given the go-ahead from ABC.
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#1960

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 4:54 PM

I do not want August to be Baelfire, because I think it would be too much, if both Baelfire and Belle return into Rumple's life at more or less the same time. The show should take one step after another and not two at once. Especially because Rumple is a villain (a murderer, even) and I do not see, why he should get all that he wants served on a silver platter. Do not misunderstand me, he's my favourite character. And I do think, that he's redeemable, but he has to earn his redemption, which will probably take the whole show (and might very well end with his dead).

So I much prefer August to be Pinocchio, which I think makes a lot of sense. We already know, that baby Emma was found by a boy, who was only a few years older than she was. And we saw Pinocchio in the pilot, where he was only a few years older than (soon to be born) Emma. And he is missing in action in Storybrooke. I think that's a pretty big hint towards August being Pinocchio.

And also: Whoever wrote this book, must have had some insider knowledge. That means, he had to be in the Fairytale world, when Regina made the curse, and must have been able to escape the curse somehow, for him to remember. That means there has to be another character from Fairytale world to escape the curse.
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#1961

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 5:57 PM

I do not want August to be Baelfire, because I think it would be too much, if both Baelfire and Belle return into Rumple's life at more or less the same time. The show should take one step after another and not two at once. Especially because Rumple is a villain (a murderer, even) and I do not see, why he should get all that he wants served on a silver platter.

If it turns out that August is Baelfire, that will be revealed in either The Return or (more likely) The Stranger. Belle will make an appearance in the final episode and we don't know if she will be revealed to Mr. Gold in Storybrooke. That said, I think Baelfire is more important to the overall plot while the love story with Belle is incidental. It seeems pretty certain that Rumpel created The Curse in response to Bael's wish that he find a way to give up the Dark One's power. But let's be clear: August has stated in no uncertain terms that he is there for Emma. His purpose is to help Emma accept that Henry's book is in fact a History book and that The Curse is real. This is why it's so important that she believe he is not a liar, nor unreliable. So if he is Baelfire, he's not there just to be reunited with his father.

Personally, I don't want August to be Pinocchio. I understand why so many people think that's who he'll be but I just can't buy into it. Pinocchio may have lived in the Enchanted Forest and may have been told some of these fairy tales, but he hadn't been a real boy for long and couldn't possibly have known enough of the "adults-only" details of most of the stories before the curse struck.

If I had to choose between Baelfire and Pinocchio, I'd choose Bael; but I like door #3 best of all: Someone Else. LOL
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#1962

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 6:34 PM

If I had to choose between Baelfire and Pinocchio, I'd choose Bael; but I like door #3 best of all: Someone Else. LOL


Co-signed. I wonder if I'd like either of the major August theories better if they hadn't both been guessed so soon. I like being surprised by reveals. For now I'm resigning myself to seeing August revealed as Pinocchio; I just hope there's a good explanation for how he escaped the curse. I will be extremely irritated if it was through the wardrobe. For me, it would completely cheapen Snow and Charming's angush at having to send their newborn through it alone. If I'm told that Pinocchio went through it, I would be wondering why one of Emma's parents couldn't accompany her. Even if Pinocchio's role was to protect Emma, he couldn't do anywhere near as good a job as her parents could.
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#1963

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 6:51 PM

Even if Pinocchio's role was to protect Emma, he couldn't do anywhere near as good a job as her parents could.


That's the part of the Pinocchio theory that's going to take the most explaining for me: why would the Blue Fairy or Gepetto or whoever think it was a good idea to send a small child to a foreign world as the protector of an infant? Even if the Blue Fairy gave him the book and told him about what he'd need to do in the future, they were putting a LOT of hope into Pinocchio not getting mowed down by a semi truck within five minutes of arriving in our world, not to mention the various and sundry ills that could have befallen him in the years between his arrival and his following Emma to Storybrooke. It seems like an irresponsible plan all around.

Edited by oldandnewfirm, Apr 8, 2012 @ 6:56 PM.

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#1964

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 8:42 PM

Personally, I see things playing out like this:

Episode 19 will show us in flashbacks how Baelfire became a tree in order to be preserved.
Episode 20 will show us in flashbacks how that tree became Pinnochio and how he was saved from the curse by being from the same tree.
This way casual viewers can see each storyline separately and it gives a shared storyline to Gepetto and Rumple- about the lengths a parent will go to save their child.

Edited by Latuki Joe, Apr 8, 2012 @ 8:44 PM.

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#1965

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 10:29 PM

That's the part of the Pinocchio theory that's going to take the most explaining for me: why would the Blue Fairy or Gepetto or whoever think it was a good idea to send a small child to a foreign world as the protector of an infant?

I doubt that either the Blue Fairy or Geppetto thought Pinocchio would be the best protector if they could pick anyone to send. I think the "Pinocchio as protector" idea popped up as fan speculation among people who liked the idea of August looking out for Emma throughout her life and/or who think that Pinocchio was the only one who could be sent. So he got the job by default. Neither of the summaries say anything about saving Pinocchio so he could protect Emma, so it may well play out without that angle.
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#1966

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Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 11:31 PM

I think you're all probably right in that August is Pinocchio, but I would be very disappointed by this. Pinocchio was just a goofy kid. He was a very disobedient kid but I don't think his experiences, when he reformed his ways, made him the contemplative sage type. He was just an ordinary goofy kid then. Of course, CS Lewis was such an excellent writer that he could make me believe that Edmund ended up the wise counselor, but there is nothing in the original or Disney Pinocchio story that could make me believe that Pinocchio could become the wise facilitator/mentor. I know that this show takes liberties with fairytales, so I hope if August is Pinocchio, they do show me something believable.
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#1967

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 12:10 AM

saving Pinocchio so he could protect Emma


If that was the plan, then he did a rather poor job of it!
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#1968

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 2:47 AM

I do not think at all, that Pinocchio was sent to protect Emma. I think Gepetto wanted to save him. That's all. And then Emma and Pinocchio were transported to the same place, where Pinocchio found baby Emma and searched for help.

And also, Baelfire must be much, much older than Augustus. According to the episode with Jiminy Crickett, he's even older than even Gepetto (if he's still alive). I don't say, that there couldn't be any magic, that kept Baelfire young. But it needs to be explained, while Augustus' age fits the age a now grown-up Pinocchio should have very well.

Edited by Hick, Apr 9, 2012 @ 2:47 AM.

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#1969

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 4:36 AM

That said, I think Baelfire is more important to the overall plot while the love story with Belle is incidental. It seeems pretty certain that Rumpel created The Curse in response to Bael's wish that he find a way to give up the Dark One's power.

Obviously we know that Rumple is going to agree to Bae trying to find a way to rid him of his powers, but I don't think that excludes Belle being part of the reason for the curse as well. This is my (current) theory as to how it all fits together, where both Belle and Bae play a vital role in the overall plot...

Bae wants Rumple to be rid of his powers, so Rumple agrees to humour the kid and let him try, even though he doesn't hold out any real hope of there being any way around it. But still, Rumple promises that whatever it takes, they'll find a way.

In the process of that search for a cure, something happens that results in Rumple losing Bae, (right now I'm thinking maybe Blue Fairy sends him to Neverland to protect him from his father, and he's there to this day until they can show us Bae as Peter Pan once they get the rights). This makes Rumple realise that if he's gonna find a way out of his Dark Curse and keep his promise to Bae, he'll first need to embrace his powers so he can become UBER powerful so he'll be powerful enough to cast a spell that will obliterate his Dark Curse.

So he goes about his business for a century or so, doing his deals and gaining his power, but not necessarily with a clear plan in mind yet for how to break his Dark One curse. During the last decade or so, this Evil Queen comes on the scene and becomes his greatest rival.

Then one day, this pretty girl named Belle comes along, and she kisses him, and it starts to strip him of his powers, but then she starts excitedly blabbing about the lady who told her it'd work. Instantly it flares up his anger because this situation is obviously the Evil Queen using Belle to rid him of his power so she can get the upper hand. The fact that if he'd just let it happen, he would have kept the promise he'd made to Bae, that doesn't even enter his mind in that moment.

But later, after he's kicked Belle out and he's had some time to collect his thoughts, he realises the error of his ways. Then for a split second, Regina gives him a spark of hope when he thinks maybe he can get Belle, and thus his chance at redemption back (the moment where he asks if Belle needs a home because her father kicked her out fucking breaks my heart every damn time). But in the next breath, Regina says that Belle is dead, so there goes his hope of redeeming himself, both with Belle and for Bae.

This is the catalyst for him cooking up the "curse to end all curses". Both Bae and Belle believed there was still good in him. He made a promise to Bae to get it back, but it wasn't until Belle that he believed it was truly possible.

The problem now is that though he knows that love can break the Dark One curse, the love he shared with both Belle and Bae is gone, so that doesn't do him much good. So he's gotta use someone else's love to create the curse, (Snow and Charming's), then rope someone else's love in to enact the curse, (Regina and her father).


Personally, I see things playing out like this:

Episode 19 will show us in flashbacks how Baelfire became a tree in order to be preserved.
Episode 20 will show us in flashbacks how that tree became Pinnochio and how he was saved from the curse by being from the same tree.
This way casual viewers can see each storyline separately and it gives a shared storyline to Gepetto and Rumple- about the lengths a parent will go to save their child.

If they wanna go the route of having him be both characters, that's an explanation I could buy.
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#1970

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 5:21 AM

Here are some more pics mixed in with the previous set already posted.

There are a few behind the scenes, including the blue fairy with her wand and more of Bae and Rump.

more of The Return pics
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#1971

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:21 AM

The fact that if he'd just let it happen, he would have kept the promise he'd made to Bae, that doesn't even enter his mind in that moment.

But later, after he's kicked Belle out and he's had some time to collect his thoughts, he realises the error of his ways. Then for a split second, Regina gives him a spark of hope when he thinks maybe he can get Belle, and thus his chance at redemption back (the moment where he asks if Belle needs a home because her father kicked her out fucking breaks my heart every damn time). But in the next breath, Regina says that Belle is dead, so there goes his hope of redeeming himself, both with Belle and for Bae.

This is the catalyst for him cooking up the "curse to end all curses". Both Bae and Belle believed there was still good in him. He made a promise to Bae to get it back, but it wasn't until Belle that he believed it was truly possible.

I believe Rumpel had been working on the curse - collecting the elements of it - long, long before Belle. It was not until he had the hairs of Snow and Charming, however, that he was able to bottle the "True Love" ingredient he needed in order to create the curse's loophole trigger (i.e., Emma). The creation of The Curse took all his knowledge, skills and the contents of all his laboratory beakers, amassed over centuries, and I cannot imagine it's something he could've thrown together in the relatively brief time between losing Belle and giving the Curse to Evil Queen Regina (which he must've done very soon after obtaining Charming's hair).

Rumpel really never wanted to be the Dark One. He just wanted to control it and turn it to good purpose (saving the children, mainly). He had not planned to kill Zoso and take the power unto himself, his temper got the best of him when Zoso taunted him about Bael's paternity. He set about trying to rid himself of it almost immediately, at Bael's behest. It literally took centuries before he was able to obtain the most critical ingredient for the anti-curse Curse. Any hope for a love of his own never entered into it and would, in fact, have been deadly to his purpose once the most evil Regina was on the scene. To ultimately save his world, Rumpel had to sacrifice love for himself. He would surely have taken Belle back if she needed a home, but with the understanding there could be no more kissing until the curse to end all curses had done its work.

Edited by Samiwell, Apr 9, 2012 @ 11:26 AM.

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#1972

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 1:25 PM

From the new pictures I wonder if Rumpel gives Bael the dagger, so that his son will have ultimate control over his actions and be his Jiminy Cricket, so to speak.
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#1973

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 6:23 PM

Full description and promo images are out for "The Stranger."

I, for one, am rooting for David, if only because the fallout from his sleeping with Regina will make for some fantastic TV once he gets his memories back.
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#1974

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 6:35 PM

... August is Pinocchio...

Personally, I will go to my grave thinking August is Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Gold's son, I don't care who else the story might hint he is.

Edited by agora, Apr 9, 2012 @ 6:36 PM.

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#1975

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 7:38 PM

Personally, I will go to my grave thinking August is Rumplestiltskin/Mr. Gold's son, I don't care who else the story might hint he is.

Given that Robert Carlyle has already debunked that theory, you won't have to.
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#1976

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 8:46 PM

The pinocchio theory is looking better and better, especially with the new episode description that indicates Gepetto didn't make the wardrobe before some serious negotiation. I wonder how truthful the Blue Fairy actually was.

There is still room for Baelfire in the plot line. I'm reasonably certain that Henry's father (a season two element) is connected to Fairy Tale Land. Currently the only character of whom we are aware who is available is Baelfire. There is also the possiblity of a yet-to-be-revealed brother of Regina, given to Rumplestiltskin as the price of whatever DEAL Cora made as the MILLER's DAUGHTER. Either choise connects Henry to Mr. Gold. This scenario would have provided Gold with two reasons to procure Henry as Regina's adoptive child.
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#1977

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:17 PM

I noticed something that gives me hope. Pinnochio's a redhead. August isn't.

Edited by Tricksterson, Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:18 PM.

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#1978

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 12:22 AM

I'm disappointed. It appears from the pictures that August is Pinocchio & the boy who found Emma. This had better be a good story.

I'm also disappointed that Gepetto negotiated on the making of the wardrobe. I understand that as a father, he wants to save his own kid, but would he really let his entire universe be destroyed, and this would include his son too, if they said no?
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#1979

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 2:05 AM

Did anyone notice that in photo 3 of the spoiler photos the mirror in Regina's house is broken?


And ewww.. David.. what are you doing???!! You don't invite the Evil Queen over for a candlelight dinner! What are you thinking boy? Use the head on your shoulders for a change!

Edited by MorninStar, Apr 10, 2012 @ 2:12 AM.

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#1980

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 2:26 AM

A few things I don't get:

  • If August/Pinocchio is the 7-year-old boy who found Emma on the side of the road, then why does the newspaper article byline describe him as a "local boy"? Local to where?
  • What is up with the Blue Fairy and her sketchy magical loopholes? So the wardrobe can save only one, and by one she meant Snow and her unborn child, but not really because it can also save Geppetto's son. (Lying--way to set an example for Pinocchio. lol) As if I wasn't already suspicious of her after the "Dreamy" episode. Can't wait to see how they explain this one.

    Granted, I can't judge until I've seen the episode, but this sounds to me like yet another possible explanation--in addition to the Baelfire story--of why Rumple doesn't like fairies. How do they choose who gets their wishes granted? Do they just play favorites? Or is this Blue's way of making sure Geppetto gets to keep someone he loves after already losing his parents (partly due to Rumple the fairy nemesis)?
  • How did August get all his knowledge about Henry's book, Storybrooke, etc.?
  • Why is there a "donkey driver" in episode 19 ("The Return")? Is this a Pinocchio reference? Is there some sort of connection to Baelfire's backstory in that episode?
  • And then there's this from Horowitz and Kitsis at WonderCon:

    By the end of the season we will know more about August: who he is, why he’s in Storybrooke, and basically everything you’ve ever wanted to know about him (and “two things you didn’t.")


    What would we NOT want to know about August? Ugh, this guy's reveal could not come soon enough...

Edited by TWoP Tennison, Apr 10, 2012 @ 1:10 PM.
15/15

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