115 replies to this topic

[Trini Girl]

Compare and contrast the show with the original tales, Disney movies, and other fantasy stories.

Edit: There is also thread for comparisons to other TV shows.

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For me, this is serving the same niche as Pushing Daisies. ::costume squee::

Edited by Trini Girl, Dec 31, 2011 @ 11:08 PM.

[tjl]

This show has quite a bit in common with Fables. Both are about fairy tale characters in a modern setting, but there are some big differences. In Fables, the characters remain themselves since they fled to our world, whereas here they were exiled and don't remember who they were. This changes the character dynamics, since we're not going to expect them to act the same as their fairy tale counterpart.

[thuganomics85]

The main reason I tried it was because it had reminded me of the The 10th Kingdom miniseries, and it does remind of it in some ways, but thankfully it is still different. Instead of the fairy tale characters being brought over here, The 10th Kingdom was about a father and a daughter (John Larroquette and Kimberly Williams) being brought into fairy tale land to help destroy the Evil Queen (in this one, she's older and played by Dianne Wiest.) It's been a while since I've seen it, but it also had appearances from characters like Snow White, the Peeps (Little Bo Peep), and whatnot. Also a few other familiar faces like Rutger Hauer as the Huntsman, Ed O'Neil as an evil Troll king, and my personal favorite, Scott Cohen as Wolf.

[ElymianDucat]

If any of the following happens in the show, Bill Willingham may get lawsuit happy:

• The Big Bad Wolf is the Sheriff.
• Cinderella owns a shoestore.
• Cinderella is an ultra-badass martial artist.
• Rose Red shows up as Snow White's sister.
• Goldilocks is an ultraleftist revolutionary / fanatic animal rights activist.
• Prince Charming was previously married to either Sleeping Beauty or Cinderella.

Those things were very specific to Fables.

Edited by ElymianDucat, Oct 24, 2011 @ 9:28 AM.

[TiffanyNichelle]

I really hope the Sheriff isn't the Big Bad Wolf (or trying to date Snow White) because I want to enjoy this show without thinking of Fables but I can't help it.

[Colombine]

Rose Red is in the original Grimm's Fairy tales though. Also Prince Charming in Into the Woods was first married to Cinderella, and then moved onto Sleeping Beauty.

Edited by Colombine, Oct 24, 2011 @ 1:09 PM.

[Sarah1281]

Some of those things seem too generic for just having them be worth a lawsuit. The Big Bad Wolf as sheriff? It would have to be really, really similar and not just have that be it.

[kennyab]

Rose Red is in the original Grimm's Fairy tales though. Also Prince Charming in Into the Woods was first married to Cinderella, and then moved onto Sleeping Beauty.

Unless they play fast-and-loose with the source material (which they well might), I wouldn't expect to see Rose Red based on the Snow White we see in the premiere.

For a little background, there are two different Snow White fairy tales. One is the better known Seven Dwarves version that Disney's movie is based on. The other is a completely different tale with a character whose name happes to have the same English translation, although a different name in the original German. The latter character has a sister named Rose Red.

[ElymianDucat]

 The other is a completely different tale with a character whose name happes to have the same English translation, although a different name in the original German. The latter character has a sister named Rose Red.

Exactly. And making the Snow White in both stories into the same character is something Fables came up with, AFAIK.

Edited by ElymianDucat, Oct 24, 2011 @ 2:15 PM.

[Sarah1281]

Exactly. And making the Snow White in both stories into the same character is something Fables came up with, AFAIK.

But simply making them the same character isn't particularly original (they have the same name and are two versions of the same story) nor would just do that and taking a different spin on it be enough to successfully sue.

[ElymianDucat]

they have the same name and are two versions of the same story

They aren't two versions of the same story. They have absolutely nothing in common other than the fact that two characters have the same name, and that only when you translate it into English.

The Snow White & Rose Red story is about two girls who befriend a bear who turns out to be really a prince, and the encounters the three of them have with a wicket dwarf.

[Sarah1281]

They aren't two versions of the same story. They have absolutely nothing in common other than the fact that two characters have the same name, and that only when you translate it into English.

And it's an English story so the English translation is what's relevant.

[ElymianDucat]

In English or German, they're still two completly different characters from two completely different stories. That's the point.

[killersharky]

So the Sheriff is the Big Bad Wolf? I thought at first he was the Sheriff of Nottingham. Apparently, I'm confusing my fables with Robin Hood. :)

I have to say it was kind of cool to see each new character and think "Ok, what fable is that supposed to be?" Most were pretty easy but it took me a bit to figure out Red Riding Hood. The red scarf finally gave it away.

[Camera One]

I remember being really disappointed in "The 10th Kingdom" since it was so hokey and the effects looked so fake. That's why I had huge reservations about this show. Thankfully, the CGI doesn't look as fake, and the characters feel a bit more real. That first scene with the Prince kissing Snow White could have been really bad, but strangely, it worked.

[Tabbyclaw]

Cinderella is an ultra-badass martial artist.

Cinderella has been working for the CIA since at least 1988, according to Oingo Boingo. These ideas are not new.

[kcblue86]

I thought of Narnia when the enchanted tree was turned into a wardrobe that was actually a portal into our world. I'm not sure I've seen that in any other fantasy story.

[arc]

Considering even Willingham has conceded that "Fables" is a slightly misleading title for his book -- it's really more about fairy tales than fables per se (as is this show) -- I was really surprised when the promo at the end of the pilot episode said "this season, the real story behind all your favorite fables". That just seems like a little gratuitously provocative.

OTOH, the alliance of good, er, fables had one member (Gepetto) that would would never have been there if this was a real Fables adaptation.

[Sarah1281]

Considering even Willingham has conceded that "Fables" is a slightly misleading title for his book -- it's really more about fairy tales than fables per se (as is this show) -- I was really surprised when the promo at the end of the pilot episode said "this season, the real story behind all your favorite fables". That just seems like a little gratuitously provocative.

I think it's not supposed to be provacative and they just thought 'fables' made the line sound better than using 'fairty tales' again. I don't think most people care about the technical meaing of fables, fairytales, and folk lore.

[ReesieKitty]

I've read all the Fables book and have read not only a lot of folklore and fairy tales, fables and myths as well as all kinds of scholarly analysis and critiques back when I was in college. I also read a lot of fantasy in my spare time, so I feel that I know all the variations of genre pretty well. People have been writing short stories and novels based loosely or specifically on fairy tales for years and years, so I don't think that is the issue.

But I just feel that having approached Willingham specifically for the Fables property, it is obvious that the producers for this show wanted to make something like and were very familiar with that material and how it was handled. They may walk a very narrow line and be careful NOT to cross over into outright copywrite infringement so they don't get sued, but to me that just smacks of splitting hairs. I just feel like even if it turned out to be a GREAT show (and I am certainly not impressed enough by the pilot to think that) in effect, they are ripping off what so far was a much better written and established body of work by other artists and writers. I just don't like that. I do feel that the similarities are that strong- sort of like how similar Disney's Beauty and the Beast is to Robin McKinley's first novel 'Beauty'. So it's not like other major players don't rip off better writers- but you don't have to applaud the show and approve of it.

That said, I was actually glad when I heard that a regular network was NOT going to make Fables, simply because I figured it would be the usual watered-down, second rate pablum that the so-called big 3 networks seem to make of most fantasy and sci-fi shows. For Fables to made well, I think it would have to go to HBO or something similar. But unless OUAT really pulls out the stops and shows me something besides cutesy fairytale flashbacks and cookie cutter characters, it will just remain a ripoff in my opinion.

[Latuki Joe]

Those things were very specific to Fables.

Unfortunately, Fables wasn't first on a lot of the things it did. Early on, I was suprised that the series wasn't in trouble with Sondheim's Into the Woods or Rocky & Bullwinkle's Fractured Fairy Tales. Then I had to consider that, since fables and fairy tales have many different versions due to being of oral tradition, it makes sense that people are going to add elements to make the story their own. It's not unnatural for authors to come to some of the same conclusion. Every thing on the list- Big Bad Wolf being Sheriff, Cinderella's skills, Rose Red- has been done before, somewhere (except the shoestore thing). Between Into the Woods, the Book of Lost Things and Shelly DuVal's Fairy Tale Show from the early 90's, they're all covered. DuVal's second episode on Snow White connected her to Rose Red, which makes sense in English.

It's also worth noting that- legally- very little of what Once Upon a Time or Fables has done can be viably sued for any form of copyright infringement. Again, these are stories that have been around forever and you can't copyright putting a spin on a legend, only new characters you create. I hope OUAT doesn't copy, though.

Edited by Latuki Joe, Oct 25, 2011 @ 10:19 AM.

[Serenachan]

But I just feel that having approached Willingham specifically for the Fables property, it is obvious that the producers for this show wanted to make something like and were very familiar with that material and how it was handled.

They didn't, as far as I know. ABC had a "Fables" pilot in production a few years ago, but it never got picked up. Kitsis and Horowitz shopped around "Once Upon A Time" 8 years ago, before they were on Lost, but after they were on Felicity, but nobody was interested. After Lost ended, they tried again, and this time ABC picked it up.

[MDKNIGHT]

Does anybody remember the show "The Charmings"? I couldn't help remembering it while watching this. I know that show was terrible but possibly because of my youth at the time I saw I thought it was funny in a very dumb way. I liked the fact that the evil queen got swept into the 1980's real world with the titular characters and had to live with them because she didn't have anywhere else to go, and kept having rediculous arguements with her magic mirror. I don't know how I found that entertaining but I did. I like this show's more serious approach but would like them to keep the sly humor like when Snow said "Truthfully the glass coffin gave me pause." That was awesome.

[SpringBarb]

I remember "The Charmings"! Every time I see Christopher Rich, I think of him as Prince Charming.

[SVNBob]

Does anybody remember the show "The Charmings"?

Nice side note: "The Charmings" also aired on ABC.

[L80Bug]

Does anybody remember the show "The Charmings"?

I remember. In the series Charming was the last name and Prince Charming's real name was Eric, I believe.

[Writing Wrongs]

After watching this I decided to pull out one of my favorite Charmed episodes: Happily Ever After. Good times.

[Scrapper]

I loved that episode I esp love Phoebe's ugly club wear/escort Cinderella dress.

[jbreckenridge]

Sent alone as an infant from a dying world, Emma is Superman. Except she wasn't sent with the knowledge of her homeworld packed in a magic crystal; it's in a book that she's only seeing now.

[cutecouple]

So, if I were interested in reading Willingham's Fables, is there any specific order other than 'publication' that I should read them in?