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Lori Grimes: The lights are definitely off.


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#391

Lillywhite

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Posted Oct 16, 2012 @ 12:45 AM

I still feel zero sympathy for Lori. Tears = a manipulator's best weapon.
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#392

zoomfzz

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Posted Oct 16, 2012 @ 10:34 AM

I'm no fan of Lori, but I felt a little bit bad for her in ep. 3-1. She seemed so depressed and hopeless. And being pregnant in a ZA has got to be miserable. But of course she brought all of this on herself. Having regular, unprotected sex during an apocalypse situation was just ridiculously stupid on her part. I would think that any woman, especially one who has already had children, would be terrified of even the possibility of becoming pregnant in a situation like that (and keep their legs crossed, unless contraceptives could be found). And I was not surpised that Rick is now resentful of Lori even though he seemed to accept the affair and pregnancy last season. He has had months to watch her carrying another man's baby, and to think about the affair with Shane. That has to have festered inside Rick. Lori is finally reaping what she sowed.
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#393

fortesmtng

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Posted Oct 16, 2012 @ 7:05 PM

It's only been one episode but I am already tired of seeing Lori holding her pregnant stomach. I get it. You're pregnant. It's the only place on your entire body that has more than .01% fat anywhere near it; I've noticed your baby bump. No need to highlight it. Even if I did manage to forget for a moment that you are bearing Shane / Rick Jr, most of the others seem contractually obligated to mention your pregnancy every five minutes. I won't be in the dark for long.
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#394

Doom

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Posted Oct 16, 2012 @ 7:19 PM

I think pregnant women do that because their backs hurt from carrying the weight of the baby. Since they are constantly on the move, running and standing, it makes sense to me that she'd do that more than a pregnant woman on a regular day.

I can't stand this character, but I have to admit, if they still don't know if the baby is alive and she goes into labor, it's going to be intense wondering if she's giving birth to a kid or a zombie.
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#395

fortesmtng

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Posted Oct 16, 2012 @ 7:23 PM

In my experience pregnant women typically rub their stomachs or place their hands on top or in front of their bellies; it's a sign of protection and caring. Lori was holding her stomach from below making it look like she was afraid that the beach ball under her shirt was going to fall out when she walked. I personally found it very distracting to watch her basically holding the pillow in place during the whole episode. But then, I may just be a little cranky.
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#396

JOnanGoopta

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Posted Oct 16, 2012 @ 7:54 PM

If another pregnant character acted like that, I'd think it was bad acting. In Lori's case, though, it's entirely in character.
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#397

tvprime

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Posted Oct 17, 2012 @ 10:18 AM

I can't stand this character, but I have to admit, if they still don't know if the baby is alive and she goes into labor, it's going to be intense wondering if she's giving birth to a kid or a zombie.

I'm almost hoping for a zombie baby. If she has a regular baby, trying to keep the baby quiet is going to get old pretty quick.
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#398

Megamos

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Posted Oct 17, 2012 @ 10:54 AM

Lori was holding her stomach from below making it look like she was afraid that the beach ball under her shirt was going to fall out when she walked. I personally found it very distracting to watch her basically holding the pillow in place during the whole episode.


You're not cranky! I was thinking the exact same thing. It was like the props dept. did such a bad job on the pregnant belly that the actress had to hold it in place to keep it from bouncing around. Which she still couldn't do.

Edited by Megamos, Oct 17, 2012 @ 10:57 AM.

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#399

captnamerca

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Posted Oct 17, 2012 @ 10:59 AM

They should have found Lori a wheelbarrow by now.

Problem is, who would push it?
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#400

bosawks

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Posted Oct 17, 2012 @ 11:09 AM

They should have found Lori a wheelbarrow by now.


Problem is, who would push it?


I'm guessing not Herschel.............
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#401

SpecialBrew

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Posted Oct 17, 2012 @ 2:02 PM

Poor Lori. I don't like the character but I feel for her here. Not sure if this belongs here or in the Rick section but it's COMPLETELY believable to me for Rick to be distant, aloof (or as Lori says "he hates me") six months later after acting somewhat-okay with it when he first discovered the relationship.

Just thinking personally about cheating and betrayal? This is the phase (6 months later) where you are MOST resentful because you've had time to ruminate and embitter yourself. Often, when slapped in the face with betrayal you just kind of go into damage-control/denial mode (How many times? Do you love him? Is it 100% over now? Are you sorry?) and then try to quickly shove it aside. Rick has now had six months to brood and survive. He's probably missed Shane a lot and had the time to brood and fixate on his guilt in that department too. When we last saw him he was still in adreneline mode from killing Shane and hadn't had time to mourn. They've probably also come across more than one occasion in this winter of survival where Shane's help would have been invaluable. It would also be easy to blame Lori 100% since Shane is dead.

I think once the baby arrives it will provide closure to this cold, bitter relationship no matter what the paternity turns out. If it's Rick's there may be a sense of relief and that the restart button has been hit. If it's Shane's perhaps the restart button would still be hit and Rick could alleviate his guilt over Shane by protecting and raising the child as his own.
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#402

Mathilda

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Posted Oct 17, 2012 @ 6:46 PM

I've seen pregnant women hold their stomachs toward the bottom when they run. Well, the pregnant women I saw were hopping but still. Seems to be some instinctive response to help alleviate the weight or something.

If the hatred she's getting from Rick is due to the cheating, I feel for her. She thought Rick was dead. And yeah, it wasn't like she waited a year before she turned to someone else but it was the ZA. I'm sure a lot of people got comfort/pity sex during that first month or so. If the hatred is due to her having unprotected sex during the ZA...I get it. He needs to process and move on because you can't unring that bell. Being pissed about it isn't going to change it and making the situation even more tense and uncomfortable than it needs to be is bs. But that was incredibly stupid on her part.
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#403

JOnanGoopta

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Posted Oct 17, 2012 @ 7:53 PM

I think he may just hate her because she's the horrible human we all know and hate. Maybe he just realized it.

Remember, he was already complaining about how emotionally abusive she is in the very first scene of the very first episode, where he is complaining to Shane about a vile, abusive thing she said to him in front of Carl.

He's had a whole winter of putting up with her shit at this point, and is probably sick of it. The baby in her belly is probably the only reason he hasn't personally put a bullet in her by now.
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#404

Megamos

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Posted Oct 18, 2012 @ 12:02 PM

He's had a whole winter of putting up with her shit at this point, and is probably sick of it. The baby in her belly is probably the only reason he hasn't personally put a bullet in her by now.

I think Rick is too good of a man to do that. Although, I think the baby might be the only reason he hasn't left her on the side of the road.
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#405

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Posted Oct 18, 2012 @ 1:56 PM

Rick is a caretaker. He would never leave Lori & Carl I don't think. Go back to that scene in the pilot where he wanders out of the hospital and bikes his way home, weak and disoriented. He gets there and calls out for them in despair, probably one of the top 5 saddest moments on this show. I think he truly loves Lori and will care for her and put up with her drama and rationalize away her behavior so that he can have his family together.

Lori, on the other hand, would have walked in the door and said "Rick?....Rick? Okay, Shane come in here, I feel lonely. Carl, you wait over there."
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#406

Vaysh

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Posted Oct 18, 2012 @ 6:51 PM

Perhaps he hates her because he has realised how she played him and Shane against each other throughout season 2? And thus blaming her for Shane going crazy and plotting to kill him, leading to Rick having to kill his best friend? Or maybe the writers realized how she came across to the viewers and are catering to/trying to amend that in this season?

Thing is that I never understood how the show intended for us to view Lori. The way I saw her was as a self-centered, massively entitled, manipulative mix between a Stepford wife (when it suited her) and Lady MacBeth. But the way the actress and other people involved in the show talked about her, it seemed more like we were supposed to like her and think of her as the main female protagonist, like Rick is the main male one. Didn't the actress say something early on about Lori being the "moral centre" of the show?

The way the first episode of season 3 played out it felt like the writers realized how badly Lori came off in the first two seasons and are now trying to garner some support and sympathy for the character by treating her as the underdog (husband and son hates her, others make fun of her, baby may be zombified in utero etc).

Edited by Vaysh, Oct 18, 2012 @ 6:53 PM.

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#407

JOnanGoopta

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Posted Oct 19, 2012 @ 5:35 PM

Unlike some of the characters, like Carol, Lori is so universally reviled, and for good reason, that it is going to be very hard to reboot the character. She has just been so vile, on so many different levels, that it's basically unforgivable.
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#408

Zyx

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Posted Oct 20, 2012 @ 3:10 PM

She has just been so vile, on so many different levels, that it's basically unforgivable.


I disagree. Lori's been selfish, she's been rude to people, and she's bossed them around. She had a secret affair with Shane when she thought her husband was dead. She warned her husband that Shane was a danger to him, and she was entirely correct about that, though the show tried to paint her as Lady MacBeth for doing so. It's not like Lori spends her spare time drowning kittens. She is not likeable, but hasn't done anything unforgiveable.

Carol has. She chose to raise her daughter in the same house as an abusive potential child molester. For me, that truly is unforgivable, no matter how pleasant Carol is or how good she has been in promoting Daryl's socialization.

Shane has. He tried to murder Rick to get the family he wanted.

I think likeability shouldn't be confused with 'goodness'.
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#409

PartlyCloudy

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Posted Oct 21, 2012 @ 7:56 PM

Zyx, ITA. I do loathe Lori but she's not as despicable a human being as Carol or Shane.

Edited by PartlyCloudy, Oct 21, 2012 @ 7:56 PM.

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#410

SDcat2009

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 8:27 PM

I'm no fan of Carol. She seemed to be stuck and unable to extricate herself from an abusive marriage. It's fairly easy to say "She's stupid for staying". Domestic abuse is way more complicated than that. So I could see why Carol was the way she was, insecure, thinking she had to latch on to a someone for protection. I think she was so used to being unable to think for herself (or be allowed to think for herself) that she didn't know how to cope.

Lori had a far better life situation than Carol. Lori was married to a decent, kind, loving, supportive, gainfully employed and by Lori's way of thinking, boring man.(I'm thinking of the flashback wherein Lori says how she just wanted Rick to fight back or something like that). She has a son that seemed to be a decent kid (until the ZA messed him up). She also had a boyfriend who seemed to love her despite him going over the edge to insanity. She might have thought Rick was dead, but her mind games with both Rick and Shane were awful.

So, for me,Lori has little cause to be such a loathesome, whiny, unkind, manipulative and self centered jerk. There is no amount of retcon that will turn Lori into a character I will have sympathy for or root for to live.

Edited by SDcat2009, Oct 23, 2012 @ 8:29 PM.

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#411

lawless

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 11:46 PM

I really couldn't stand Lori the first two seasons, she was imperious, manipulative, self-centered and her 1950s worldview and chastising of Andrea were infuriating. I had great problems with Carol as well, and frequently other characters too. But it feels to me like Glen Mazzara has retooled and re-booted the show, including several of the characters, such as Lori. I like it, so I'm trying to just with it. With that in mind, while I haven't forgotten how much Lori has sucked, her situation is pretty desperate and I can't help but pity her. She brought a lot of her problems on herself, but it's gotta be hard to expect to die in childbirth in a gross male prison and/or be carrying a zombie baby. When you're that pregnant you're extremely vulnerable physically and emotionally, and keenly aware of that. Never more so than during a zombie apocalypse. Rick is doing his duty so to speak regarding caring for his family, but it's got to be really hard for Lori to be simultaneously so dependent on him and also estranged if not reviled by him. Not saying she didn't set this in motion, but she seems different now, more self aware, and maybe even regretful? Given her prior characterization, it could be more simply manipulation and selfish pity, but since the whole group seems different now - and for the better- I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. Carol too, she is like a different person and a much better one. I want to like the show, but struggled the last two seasons because of sucky characters like Lori. If she improves, I think I'll just go with it.
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#412

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 2:39 PM

Not saying she didn't set this in motion, but she seems different now, more self aware, and maybe even regretful? Given her prior characterization, it could be more simply manipulation and selfish pity, but since the whole group seems different now - and for the better- I am giving her the benefit of the doubt. Carol too, she is like a different person and a much better one. I want to like the show, but struggled the last two seasons because of sucky characters like Lori. If she improves, I think I'll just go with it


I totally agree with this. I like what they've done so far in these two new episodes. In fact, I am loving this season so far. I love that Rick is human enough to have difficulty forgiving his wife (not a saint like last season) and I love that Lori finally seems to understand the shitty way she was acting before. Here is a woman who slept with her husbands best friend (yes she thought he was dead but it was...what a few weeks, maybe a month? Plus, did she have to screw the best friend, not some other random guy?), then she proceeds to put them at odds, playing head games. She still toyed with Shane even after his attempted rape in the first season. Then she insinuated to Rick that he would need to kill Shane, then acted repulsed and pissed when he did just that, despite the fact it was basically self defense. If I were Rick, I'd have trouble with forgiveness, too. Yet, Lori is indeed pregnant and vulnerable, which is tough not to sympathize with...and she seems to regret her previous behavior. I think there may be hope for this character yet.
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#413

SDcat2009

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 5:04 PM

nd I love that Lori finally seems to understand the shitty way she was acting before. Here is a woman who slept with her husbands best friend


My problem with the writers trying to redeem Lori is that so far (and yes it's early on) we haven't actually been shown how she got to this kindler, gentler Lori, other than her being pregnant and depending on others for her and her unborn baby/zombaby. And if her pregnancy is the reason, that's HUGELY problematic for me, and another strike against how women are written.

Yes I know I complained about her before but that was mostly because I was being told she was this moral center and she really wasn't. If they had never said that, I would just go on thinking man she's a terrible person, but this is who she is. The hypocrisy is what irked me to no end. So now she's somehow self-aware, but we are not being told or shown how this has progressed. If they can show me that, it won't feel like a blatant attempt to make her less hateable.

And I might be a terrible person, but her being pregnant garners no sympathy points because she knew better than to get pregnant.
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#414

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 7:21 PM

Oh yeah, I totally get your feelings there, SDcat2009. I sort of feel that way, too, but I'm trying to reconcile it so I can enjoy the show. LOL I'm not totally convinced they can save this character, but I hope they can and I hope they can do it in a decent way. I agree about the claim that she was supposedly the "moral center" of the show. I mean, what?...And huh, come again? That just blows my mind.

Now, as far as how she came to this point...to be fair we had a time jump of several months. We didn't get to see her transition to this point after her infuriating reaction to Rick when he admitted to killing Shane. Hopefully, we'll get some insight into that. We'll have to see, I guess.
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#415

berenjena

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 8:42 PM

I think that the strain of pregnancy during the first winter of the ZA and now the very real fear of her impending labor and delivery are a good explanation for her characters newfound humility. IOW this change has been imposed on her. There is a small scene in Seed where she is just staring out the window of the truck, and it gave me the sense she has spent a lot of time going over what happened. And I do empathze with the pregnancy. The worlds has gone to hell, but women are going to remember to take their birth control pills? I think the cesearean scenes are silly, though. Let's say, for arguments sake, she end up with a breach delivery, forcing the emergency surgery. How will this save the mother given the conditions at the prison. And if the mother is lost, who cares for the baby? Since when do mens prisons have formula in the dispensary? Will Carol miraculously wet nurse, after performing her first surgery? I can suspend belief for zombie glitches or white teeth, but not that.
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#416

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 12:08 AM

Women have C-sections for many reasons, not just a breech delivery. Carol will try to do the section because there is no alternative but to just let Lori die. Yes, if Lori dies, the baby will die too because they won't be able to feed it. In this world, you have to try everything because there is no alternative.
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#417

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 12:32 AM

It's not looking good for Lori to survive the labor and delivery. Carol said she anticipated a need for a Csection because she needed one with Carl. Actually, "needed" a Csection is sadly subjective these days, with some hospitals delivering nearly half if all babies that way, which calls into question the need. And it's definitely possible to have a vaginal birth after a Csection. But they've been malnourished, with minimal medical care, they barely have clean bandages, and the resident OBGYN is a vet. Things may still be fine, but Lori seems very hopeless and like she's contemplating her last days. That too may explain her current aura of sadness and regret. That, plus the hard, terrible first winter explain the changes. Plus, this may be the first time in their lives where Rick doesn't seem to love her or feel any affection for her, but they're stuck together. She brought things to this point by the way she reacted when he told her ge killed Shane, and who knows what else since. But all the same, wondering if your baby will die and zombie-fy during birth or shortly thereafter is pretty freaking horrible, so, I pity her now. I pity all of them, since this season started they all seem smarter, sharper, and like they're all pulling their weight, yet things are just so desperate, that breaking into a zombie-infested prison was a great turn of luck. Wow.
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#418

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 4:12 AM

In modern hospitals women have c sections for many reasons and survive. Up until around the 18th century the only reason for a c section was to save the baby. The conditions of the prison more resemble the dark ages. Any decision to remove the baby surgically would have to be desperate, after days of labor,because it would be a death sentence for Lori, but also the baby. The only chance is a spontaneous natural V-BAC. As mentioned above, this is the new brutal world. All of the women in the group should be having some sobering thoughts about what biology means. I agree, Lawless, when breaking into a filthy prison seems like a great stroke of luck, and being amputated by hatchet is a miracle, you know things are bad.
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#419

mzwinter

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 12:11 PM

Just thinking about Lori's evolution as a character, correct me if I get the circumstances wrong:

1. Pre-ZA - Lori was frustrated with her marriage. Rick seemed emotionally unavailable and his best friend was Shane, an immature misogynist with whom he shared his marriage problems. Who knows what the real problems were? Could they have been more serious than the natural ebb and flow of marriage? It wasn't talked about so it's not canon.

2. After ZA, wasn't it Lori who wanted to post a sign outside Atlanta to warn off unsuspecting survivors of the dangers there? So, plus one in the "good" column.

3. She did sleep with Shane - in a desperate, fearful time and her husband was "dead". In my book, she gets a pass even if it was Rick's best friend. Those "rules" are junior high stuff, especially when it's the ZA and someone is supposed to be dead. No Monday morning morality judges here, hindsight doesn't make right.

4. She did come off a bit shrill in S1 and S2, a bit judgy, but as I recall, it mostly had to do with Rick running off into the ZA constantly. That would set anyone's nerves on edge, especially after getting back your previously DEAD husband. I could use more details here that I know I'm missing...

5. She gets pregnant. After the ZA goes down. Now that, ladies and gents, is a dumb choice. And it is ALWAYS a choice, unless it's rape. Unless she has one of those magical vaginas that can prevent pregnancy that we hear so much about these days, women can always get pregnant from unprotected sex. So, yeah, that was dumb.

6. She decides to keep it! Dumb choice #2. We now know she had a C-section for Carl, so certainly she knew from the start that any pregnancy after a surgical procedure like that is super risky! Not to mention the fact that she is now extremely vulnerable and her subsequent baby will risk everyone in the group for months and years to come.

7. Consequently, her character now is on an upswing. I think we see her regret some of her choices, realize the burden she is, and see her make strides to support Rick and the group as best she can.


I'll agree with other posters that this new Lori is changing her ways and I hope she does better as a character now. Though, I absolutely HATE pregnant woman storylines but recognize the writers need to raise the stakes as often as possible. The tendency to do that with female characters always comes down to our wombs, doesn't it?

Which is why I think people love Michonne and Andrea more than Lori - women who are like men in that their biological selves don't play a role in the action. Until they're raped or sexually threatened, of course. Then they're reduced once again to what is between their legs. Sigh.
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#420

maia160

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 4:40 PM

Bftww posted this article in the Rick thread; I'm bringing it over here as I want to comment on SWC's interpretation of Lori's character.

In this article, AL and SWC explain that that was exactly how they approached the scene.

Then again, the way it was shown, Lori didn't recoil from the news that Rick killed Shane, but that Carl had put down WalkerShane.


I found it interesting that SWC states that Lori's strong reaction to Rick's admission to killing Shane was due to her being 'heartbroken' over the idea that Rick was becoming like Shane. In SWC's eyes, Lori took exception to Rick's admission that he wanted Shane dead and even went so far as to spit in his face (which was cut later).

I just didn't get this interpretation at all from the scene. She didn't appear heartbroken to me; she appeared repulsed by Rick and angry that Carl was involved even though that was not Rick's fault. In the past, I've read other comments from SWC regarding her character and what she says often just does not match up with the way the scenes come across. Is this a failure on the part of the actress, the writers or both?

ETA: link to article which didn't carry over in the quote. http://collider.com/...terview/202928/

Edited by maia160, Oct 25, 2012 @ 6:01 PM.

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