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Rick 'Foolhardy Clutterbuck' Grimes


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#241

JOnanGoopta

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Posted Oct 19, 2012 @ 5:28 PM

This is why I welcomed the Ricktatorship that emerged at the end of the last episode of Season 2. It had been a long time coming, but while democracy has its good points, it was just not working with this group in the least. It was just getting people killed.

This kind of scenario would be an absolute disaster if Shane, for instance, had taken over. Rick is suited for leadership, though. He is worthy of trust, and has a skill for bringing out the best in the people following him. If it came down to it, Rick would lay his life down to save the group.

I think this series may come down to a conflict between the two leadership styles represented by Rick and this obviously scary and evil Governor guy.

Rick is the paladin.
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#242

WmDeKooning

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Posted Oct 22, 2012 @ 1:20 AM

I have no wish to ever hear Andrew Lincoln speak again.

He was <In "member of Coldplay accent">extremely traumatized... </"member of Coldplay accent"> when shooting the scene of Rick Grimes cutting off Hershel's leg.
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#243

that one guy

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Posted Oct 22, 2012 @ 12:21 PM

After I got over how fake the machete-to-the-head thing looked, I started having an internal debate about Rick killing those two prisoners. With Tomas, it was pretty clear that things were going to come to a head (heh) sooner or later and Rick gave the guy at least as much of a chance as he gave Dave and Tony in Nebraska. His lieutenant, though, I'm not so sure about. The guy lunged at him and ran, right? But he seemed like an able lieutenant who wasn't used to making decisions on his own and instead associated himself with the most dangerous guy in the room. Since that's clearly Rick at this point, he probably could have made us of him. Or shot him, if not. Feeding him to zombies was a lower place than people should allow themselves to go.

On the other hand, the guy probably could have gotten out of there had he turned and ran rather than beg to be let back in the door. Those yard zombies seemed pretty slow on the uptake, just like the ones in the outer yard last week. So it's not all on Rick. And I'm just assuming from the sound effects that the guy is dead, I guess I don't know that for sure.

It seemed like Rick wasn't happy about how that went down either, which might have played a role in letting the other guys stay. I think he was disgusted with himself. We'll see how the decision to make himself into a scarier threat to the prisoners than the zombies, and then letting them move in next door, works out.

But my first reaction to the whole thing remains, "how come it was so much easier to cut through that guy's skull than Herschel's leg?" Because seriously.
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#244

Doom

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Posted Oct 22, 2012 @ 1:43 PM

"how come it was so much easier to cut through that guy's skull than Herschel's leg?" Because seriously.


I think it was because Rick was standing and could fully wind up and come down. With Hershel's leg (man this was disgusting) he was kneeling and couldn't generate that force. Imagine those carnival setups where you hit the thing with the mallet and try to make the ball go up and hit the buzzer. It is doable standing, but imagine trying to do that from a kneeling position.

Also, he didn't cut through the guy completely, he only made like a 5 inch deep cut it seemed, but it was to the brain, so fatal. If you look at the video again, the majority of the blade isn't in the guy, it is just that one section. It had a tinge of "okay seriously" but it was believable to me.
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#245

Bentley

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Posted Oct 22, 2012 @ 7:43 PM

The guy lunged at him and ran, right?


No, he swung at Rick with a baseball bat and then he ran. It was only fast reflexes that stopped Rick from being taken down. Maybe if Rick had been able to immediately move in for the kill right after the guy swung at him, *swing* *stab*, some fans wouldn't be having such a problem with Rick's actions. But the chase and the way it ultimately went down left some people thinking that Rick was killing somebody because he could potentially be a threat, when in fact the guy had already proven that he was a threat.

Rick is done with sleeping with one eye open, and I don't blame him. There's an old-fashioned phrase for it, "nestling a viper to one's bosom..." The guy had already proven to be a Viper in Training.
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#246

lawless

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Posted Oct 23, 2012 @ 12:48 AM

I was also disturbed by Rick leaving the second guy to be torn apart by walkers. It's more horrible than a quick relatively painless shot to the head, and I'm glad Rick at least still seems upset about it. Did the guy deserve to die? I'm not so sure. Yes Rick and the gang freed them from the Chow Hall and helped them clear a cell block. But to the inmates, Rick and the gang are strangers who are better armed, larger in number, and who already demanded half the food. I didn't think the fact that he took a swing at Rick after Rick killed Tomas with the machete as anything but terror that he was next on Rick's hit list. So I felt upset about it because it was a horrible, undeserved death.

But did Rick need to kill him to ensure the safety of the gang? That seems a lot more a clear yes. There were too many of the inmates, who are untrustworthy pre-ZA, let alone now that the world has collapsed. They know the prison better than the gang, may carry a grudge about Tomas's death, and could decide to leave, but only after raping/killing the ladies and/or Carl and looting our gang for supplies. Or they could decide to stay but do all of those things anyway for fun, vengeance, or just to reduce the drain on the food. Randall's gang of non-inmates was already doing that. So, even though the guy probably didn't deserve to die, Rick needed all or most of the inmates gone, so at a minimum their numbers are reduced.

I find it so ironic that Shane forced a fatal conflict with Rick over decisions so much like this because Shane didn't think Rick could ever get to this point, but yet here he is. The new, harder Rick of season 3 is a much more credible survivor, and impressive. But I miss the sweetness of the old Rick a little. Well, he gave the inmates a fair shot at cooperation, and gave two of them another chance, I doubt Shane would have, so there's that.

Edited by lawless, Oct 23, 2012 @ 12:51 AM.

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#247

MurlocGurgle

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 2:16 PM

Shane must have been convinced that Rick would kill him if Shane didn't kill Rick - somehow, maybe Lori but I more I think because they had been partners as cops. Shane had already tried something with Rick but Rick still rescued him out of that schoolbus but Rick definitely was going to kill Shane. It's interesting that they kept that guy alive in the barn for so long which might have been useful if the barn had been raided by his buddies. I feel that Shane's save and death was planned long ago and that both Rick and Shane are/were silently shady in a tactful and tactical way.

I'm not surprised that Rick killed the minion convict but that he chased after him into the unknown corridors was impractical in my opinion. It's also strange that he backed out so slowly when he realized the open air courtyard was filled with walkers instead of zipping back lickety-split. Rick is very very angry at the ingratitude of the convicts who have no battle experience because he feels he essentially saved them and now minion convict gets to experience what he was saved from and was ungrateful and swung at Rick TWICE in his ingratitude. I think that from the start, Rick hated the convicts even before Tomas showed himself to be what he is.

Temerity - that's what he feels the convicts have demonstrated and that was also in his Season 2 finale speech - he despises that the group is dumber than he is and make him give them lip service when he has been kissing Hershel's Heinie all season to keep the group on the farm. Their lack of subtlety and sophisticated foresight is onerous to him.
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#248

Doom

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 2:37 PM

Shane was Shane. He was a sexist and violent character. Rick is Rick, considerate and caring until you put his family (and anyone who joins the group is his family) at risk. The writers went to great lengths to write Shane as dangerous, violent, unhinged, untrustworthy and unfaithful. So I don't think he thought Rick was going to kill him. I don't think that is ever conveyed in any way by the action on screen. Shane was crazy and evil, if good looking to some, and had to go.

I'm glad Rick suckered Shane using Shane's feeling that he was stronger and better than Rick, and killed him. And then I'm glad Carl shot Shane through the head, and killed him again. Like let's just have a Clutterbuck shootout on Shane and make it clear that though morality may be fleeting in the Zombie Apocalypse, it isn't just completely gone.

I don't like what Rick did to Kevin Hart (I just kept thinking that) but they did have the guy take a swing at Rick. And he did seem to have been on Tomas's side, so I'm fine with it. If he would have shot the "I'm not going to beg for my life" guy, I think that would have been over the line.

Rick's still Rick to me. Rick always was like this. He always had it in him to make tough choices and leave a guy stranded with walkers approaching (Merle, Season 1) if need be. He tried from jump to reason with the prisoners and never even flexed the "I was a cop" thing that he could have. He made a deal with them, and then, as the dearly departed Tomas said - things happen.

Edited by Doom, Oct 24, 2012 @ 3:28 PM.

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#249

Zyx

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 3:02 PM

I think that Rick had to follow the running convict because the guy could have done something stupid, impetuous and even vengeful that put the whole group in danger. And sure enough the guy did. He left the door to the zombie-infested yard wide open.
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#250

PartlyCloudy

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 9:10 PM

I think Rick wasn't willing to risk his life to save Short Guy in the zombie yard, especially considering Short Guy took a swing at him previously, whether that was a spur of the moment thing or evidence Short Guy was bad news. I think it was a split-second decision Rick didn't like making but it was his only option. His priorities are the group's and his pregnant wife's safety. Everybody is living on a razor's edge so unfortunately Short Guy's decision to swing at Rick ended up costing him his life. Such is life in the ZA.
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#251

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Posted Oct 24, 2012 @ 9:18 PM

I love Rick. Then again I have always loved Rick. On a shallow note for me Rick has always been hotter then Shane and a better person. I think AL plays Rick to perfection and even when Rick acts in less then heroic ways, chopping of Hershall's foot, killing male Immate, locking that prisoner outside, I always see hints of humanity,mixed with torment and determination. The darkness that Rick has had to embrace to protect the group, is in a way sad but also I love badass Rick so much, I cannot complain too much. I love Rick the father and his scenes with Carl are great. I belive Carl is his lifeline and he still has so much love in his heart for his son.

I love the Daryl/Rick/T Bone team of awesomeness and hope that stays in tact. It is nice to see Rick have some friends worthy of his loyalty and he trusts and counts on Daryl comp.

For the record I do not believe Rick hates Laurie, in fact I think he really does still love her but I think something big and bad went down their and Rick is still so hurt and conflicted when it comes to her.
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#252

bestever

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 7:20 AM

I love Rick. Then again I have always loved Rick. On a shallow note for me Rick has always been hotter then Shane and a better person. I think AL plays Rick to perfection and even when Rick acts in less then heroic ways, chopping of Hershall's foot, killing male Immate, locking that prisoner outside, I always see hints of humanity,mixed with torment and determination. The darkness that Rick has had to embrace to protect the group, is in a way sad but also I love badass Rick so much, I cannot complain too much. I love Rick the father and his scenes with Carl are great. I belive Carl is his lifeline and he still has so much love in his heart for his son.

I love the Daryl/Rick/T Bone team of awesomeness and hope that stays in tact. It is nice to see Rick have some friends worthy of his loyalty and he trusts and counts on Daryl comp


Me too! I love Rick and despite the things he has to do now, like Lori said he doesn't "have malice in his heart". He's only doing what is necessary, unlike Shane. I read in another post that the person believed Rick was becoming unhinged, which I don't see at all. I think he is actually laser focused now relative to how he was at the farm. He didn't like having to do what he did with the other prisoner, it weighed on him, but he didn't have a choice. The man was given one chance, just like Tomas. You only get one chance to do right with the new Rick. No more waffling or doubts. The Short guy not only swung at Rick, but when I rewatched the scenes it was clear with the looks between him and Tomas that they were on the same page. Right before Tomas went to open both doors, he looked at Short guy knowingly and Short guy looked back and nodded. In addition, Rick saw that shared glance and knew trouble was coming.

I also LOVE the tight knit awesomeness of Rick and his two loyal lieutenants T-dog and Darryl. The trust between them is a great thing to watch and I really hope it stays intact, too!

As for Lori, I think the breaking point for Rick was when she insinuated that he might need to kill Shane, and then acted repulsed and pissed when he was forced to do just that (in self-defense, no less!). The look on his face after he told her and she backed away, all self-righteous and angry, said it all. He suddenly realized the game she had been playing and the betrayal really hit home. He not only has trouble forgiving her, he can barely even look at her. I don't blame him one bit, either! I'm not sure I even want him to forgive her, even though I kind of hope the writers can manage to redeem the Lori character somehow. I want the woman to suffer for awhile first! LOL
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#253

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 7:43 AM

I think a really telling scene was the first time Rick and Lori were alone and Rick is mulling over what to do with the prisoners. He lays "kill them" out as an option, and Lori says something like "Do what you think is best." Rick replies with "You say that now..." which I think was a dig at her over the whole Shane fiasco. I think that's what is still driving a wedge between them. She basically told him Shane had to be dealt with, he dealt with it, and she gave him shit for it.
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#254

lawless

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 8:19 AM

Honestly, even if her "deference" to his decision is real, it's annoying too. That's all she ever seems to say when Rick comes to her with a moral dilemma. He probably actually wants someone to try to work out the problem with him and either propose another solution, or give a more meaningful agreement. She finally gave him that by saying that he's a good man who should do what he has to with a clear conscience. But the "do what you think is best" 1950s deferential wife stuff allows her to benefit from whatever he does, but leaves him with all the responsibility and guilt. That would bug the crap out of me. Glad she ended up giving him a little more this time.
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#255

Zyx

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 11:33 AM

But the "do what you think is best" 1950s deferential wife stuff allows her to benefit from whatever he does, but leaves him with all the responsibility and guilt. That would bug the crap out of me. Glad she ended up giving him a little more this time.


Agreed.

Lori seems to be a lot more into traditional gender roles than Rick is. (One way that she was a better match for Shane than she is for Rick.)
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#256

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 12:29 PM

As for Lori, I think the breaking point for Rick was when she insinuated that he might need to kill Shane, and then acted repulsed and pissed when he was forced to do just that (in self-defense, no less!). The look on his face after he told her and she backed away, all self-righteous and angry, said it all.



In this article, AL and SWC explain that that was exactly how they approached the scene.

Then again, the way it was shown, Lori didn't recoil from the news that Rick killed Shane, but that Carl had put down WalkerShane.

Edited by Bftww, Oct 25, 2012 @ 12:40 PM.

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#257

maia160

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Posted Oct 25, 2012 @ 4:33 PM

Thanks for the article, Bftww! I'm going to re-post it in the Lori thread as I have some things to say about the actresse's interpretation of her character.

Edited by maia160, Oct 25, 2012 @ 4:33 PM.

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#258

bestever

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Posted Oct 27, 2012 @ 7:54 AM

Has anyone noticed how Rick has become a thousand times more sexy in season 3? It really hit me last night. I'm rewatching the series with my sister and BIL as we try to get them into the series. We watched season 1 with them last week and watched the first two episodes of season 2 last night. I've always loved the character of Rick and despised Shane. I always rooted for Rick to "win" that particular battle and was happy when he killed Shane at the end of season 2. However, last night I had to chuckle and even said out loud how much sexier Rick has become and was like "man, I never realized how much of a dufus he seemed before!". I didn't notice it back then but relative to New Rick, the polyanna naivete of Old Rick is really noticeable.
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#259

JOnanGoopta

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 6:48 AM

I think the "new Rick" emerged when he killed Shane. I think he killed a part of himself when he killed Shane.

I also wonder if the sexier part has something to do with his unshaven state.

I don't get women. In the real world, they make you shave that shit off, but they seem to love it on TV.
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#260

bestever

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 9:15 AM

I also wonder if the sexier part has something to do with his unshaven state.

I don't get women. In the real world, they make you shave that shit off, but they seem to love it on TV.



It has nothing to do with an unshaven state. I am a total sucker for good men struggling with their morality, trying to do the right thing despite being in a situation where it is difficult to know what the right thing is. The pathos, the pain, the gravitas. Hence my lady boner for one Jesse Pinkman as well. Heh.

I'm also a little in love with Darryl. Again, a good man, navigating tough waters. Now he is going to have to deal with his brother soon. Pathos is a coming. Can't wait.

Edited by bestever, Oct 28, 2012 @ 9:17 AM.

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#261

MurlocGurgle

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Posted Oct 28, 2012 @ 12:28 PM

Or Rick could have let prisoner die from zombie devouring because he was letting out his true colors where there would be no witnesses.
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#262

mixedmed

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Posted Oct 29, 2012 @ 10:11 AM

Or Rick could have let prisoner die from zombie devouring because he was letting out his true colors where there would be no witnesses.


Not sure what you mean...it would be no mystery to anyone that Rick killed the prisoner that ran away. They all knew Rick went after him and the fact he comes back alone would imply that Rick killed him in some manner.
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#263

bestever

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Posted Oct 29, 2012 @ 1:23 PM

Or Rick could have let prisoner die from zombie devouring because he was letting out his true colors where there would be no witnesses.


Like Mixedmed said, Rick had no intention of hiding the fact that he killed the prisoner. In fact, when he got back to them, he was contemplating killing the other two before deciding to spare them. It was clear by the expression on Rick's face that he was conflicted and upset by having to do what he did. He doesn't enjoy killing people, that has always been clear.
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#264

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Posted Oct 29, 2012 @ 5:49 PM

It has nothing to do with an unshaven state. I am a total sucker for good men struggling with their morality, trying to do the right thing despite being in a situation where it is difficult to know what the right thing is. The pathos, the pain, the gravitas. Hence my lady boner for one Jesse Pinkman as well. Heh.

I'm also a little in love with Darryl. Again, a good man, navigating tough waters. Now he is going to have to deal with his brother soon. Pathos is a coming. Can't wait.


This times a million. You nailed it.
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#265

JOnanGoopta

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Posted Oct 31, 2012 @ 8:45 AM

Rick chased that guy with the full intention of killing him. I think he was very upset by the way he had to kill him.

He saved a bullet, but lost a bit of his soul.
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#266

Doom

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Posted Oct 31, 2012 @ 9:20 AM

I think he chased him with the full intention of not letting him get away. I think there would have been a confrontation, but I don't think he would have killed him straight out because of his stature. I think he viewed him more like Randall and the guys behavior could have made a difference.
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#267

JOnanGoopta

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Posted Oct 31, 2012 @ 6:14 PM

I just can't imagine a scenario where that guy could have said or done anything that caused Rick not to kill him. To the extent I've been able to suss out Rick, his code of conduct seems to be one strike, you're out. He is even pretty close to moving over that line into just look like a threat and you're dead. He seemed pretty close to that with the two surviving prisoners. When he did decide not to kill them, though, he kept to the original bargain and gave them half the goods. He is still a man of his word, even though his sanity may be eroding.

He hasn't crossed the line of just killing potential threats, though. The only prisoners he killed were people who had tried to attack him and the group.

I think this was a less ambiguous situation than Randall.
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#268

spineofsnake

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Posted Nov 1, 2012 @ 9:39 AM

I think Rick fully intended to kill the little prisoner, because the guy swung on him when he chopped the other dude's head off. The fact that he left him to the walkers, rather than the more merciful option of a bullet, just showed how cold and pragmatic Rick has become. The only reason he didn't kill the last two prisoners was because they hadn't threatened him in any way.

I do think killing Shane changed Rick, because it made him realize survival is a zero-sum game and there's no more room for the moral ambiguity he struggled with before. If he wants to survive and keep his loved ones alive, he has to be prepared to kill absolutely anyone who threatens them. I am very interested in seeing how his character plays against the Governor, since they're both in similar situations but the Governor seems much further down the "no mercy" path than Rick.
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#269

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Posted Nov 13, 2012 @ 11:49 AM

Bringing over this great post by Lila82 from the episode thread

Daryl also found himself through the ZA while Rick lost himself. ... He found people who respected and relied on him; some that even liked him. He found a purpose and a place and things made him feel good about himself. He's a necessary part of the group, not just because they need him but because they also want him. Caring for Sophia and Carol, and now the baby, helped pull him further into the bonds of humanity, to be a part of something and build connections with other people. He smiles, he makes jokes, he wears ponchos...who knew the zombie apocalypse could have such a positive effect on someone's self-esteem?

On the other hand, we've watched Rick steadily decline. He came into the group all bright-eyed and bushy tailed and his carefully crafted sense of humanity has steadily eroded as time has gone on. He's seen the worst in people, especially from those he loves most, and done equally terrible things to strangers and loved ones. He's become more isolated, carried this huge burden alone, and while he's the leader and connected to all, he's steadily isolated himself.

Heavy is the head that wears the crown and all, but Rick's collapsed under that weight while Daryl wears it like a badge of honor.


Some great points in there. I the idea floating around that Rick has had a gradual descent have merit but are missing a lot of things that have happened. Rick is dumb as a rock but he's still the same person he has always been, the audience has just seen him after a major loss in this latest episode. Daryl just hasn't experienced the known death of a longtime loved one in this zombie apocalypse.

When we meet Rick he is in anguish. He is dazed, confused, bewildered, crying on the floor, wondering if this is real life. He is having marital troubles and his wife is saying horrible things about him in front of his son. He kills a little girl who is threatening him. A little girl.

The next episode he makes it clear who and what he is. A man trying to get back to his family. And anybody who comes between him and that is going to lose. He beats Merle down and handcuffs him to a roof to die. Later when there is time, he takes me and goes back for Merle and his weapons. He kills people who directly threaten him. He killed Tomas - a threat. He shot down the Philly guys - threatening him. He killed Shane - threatening him. The other prisoners are alive and part of the group because they didn't threaten Rick. Rick is the same Rick he has always been. He's at a low moment currently because he just lost his wife and the girl he's known since high school.

Daryl is an awesome character, but he hasn't been leading the group or making decisions. He goes of to hunt, and does his own thing. He comes through from time to time, but he is not a born leader like Rick is. When Daryl thought his brother was dead, he attacked Rick and tried to kill him. When an innocent person's life was on the line, a group member, Daryl was content to leave him behind. Daryl has come along nicely, and in the most recent episode he snapped into action, but Daryl has largely been looking out for only himself, while Rick has taken action to look out for, protect and serve everyone from Jim, to Glenn, to Carl, to Hershel, to Randall, to Carol, to Sophia, to Lori, Morgan, to Dwayne, to Morales and his wife and 2 children (while Daryl protested), and so on. He may make some boneheaded decisions, but he's still Rick. If Daryl had to be responsible for the well being of all those people, only to turn around and watch his beloved die, shot by his own kid, he would be a wreck. Perhaps they are just not good comparisons to one another. Each one is a great value to the group.
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#270

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Posted Nov 13, 2012 @ 11:57 AM

Rick's not a wreck? I mean, grief and rage are all perfectly understandable (I'd be more worried if he DIDN'T freak out at least a little) but their leader ran by himself deep into the prison and started attacking every walker he could find. If he gets overwhelmed or bit and dies, what does THAT do to the group?
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