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Daryl: Redneck Renaissance Man


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#961

Vaysh

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Posted Mar 31, 2012 @ 2:23 PM

I think Daryl could function as a leader by example but I can't, at this point at least, see him giving people orders and expect them to be followed. I can see him sort of getting on with things and people simply following him because he clearly knows what he's doing; a kind of passive leadership if you will (and I could totally see him losing patience with all these losers following him around and start throwing squirrels at them). But I don't think this would happen as long as there is a more vocal, take-charge sort of leader in the group. And I don't believe Daryl is interested to be that kind of leader nor does he (again, at least at this point) have the self-confidence to be one.
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#962

Luckedout

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Posted Mar 31, 2012 @ 2:41 PM

While I think Daryl has many great qualities, he handles adversity by walking away or fighting. See how he handles Jenner, Shane and Hershel.

With Jenner, he got in his face then went to the door to try to smash it open. With Shane, he got ready to fight after Zomphia was shot because Shane essentially blamed him for her not being found in time; then he withdrew from the group and whenever Shane would approach he needed to pee or whichever excuse he used to get away from the guy. With Hershel, he took a horse without asking and then when Hershel was cleaning his wounds and essentially reprimanding him by saying that it could be avoided if Daryl had bothered to ask, Daryl just turned his face away and kept quiet.

Even Carol, when she starts to give up on Sophia before him, he went from aggressive to walking away from Carol.

Being leader means that he can't do that anymore. He'll have to stand there and take it, try to resolve it and keep people happy. Make sure people get along like Rick tried so hard to do with Hershel's people and his group. Leadership isn't just making the right decisions. It's about getting the group to make them too. Not isolating himself because he (justifiably) sees the group as broken, instead of trying to fix it.
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#963

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Posted Mar 31, 2012 @ 6:40 PM

I think Daryl could function as a leader by example but I can't, at this point at least, see him giving people orders and expect them to be followed.

I think the Dixon brothers have proven to be more than prepared to survive on their own, I also believe they've more than proven either one of them can truly survive without the other, therefore, what really bound them together seemed to be an emotional need more than anything else.

As I see it, while the Atlanta group might not replace Daryl in Merle's eyes, Carol and the rest have slowly began to replace Merle in Daryl's and that's a powerful force to step in as a leader eventually. What Daryl lacks in self-steem he could compensate in ability, what he lacks in zen the rest could balance out when need it. It's not an ideal scenario, but it's not an implausible one also.

Edited by zomb, Mar 31, 2012 @ 7:19 PM.

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#964

TWoP Tennison

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 11:18 AM

I've deleted some posts for rudeness and boards-on-boards.

If you can't talk to others like you're all intelligent people, then don't talk to them at all. No virtual eye-rolling or insulting them or talking down to them.

Also, the talk in here should be about Daryl. If you want to talk about Carol or Andrea, there are other threads.

#965

Lollia Pollina

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 2:11 PM

I think that the biggest argument against Daryl being leader is that Daryl doesn't want to be leader. That's something Carol wants for him - not something he has ever been shown as wanting for himself.

Daryl's current position suits him well. He doesn't want to be at the centre all the time. He wants the freedom to be able to withdraw from the group, to sulk and brood over his ear collection when he's in an antisocial mood or to go off on solitary expeditions. He wouldn't have that freedom as leader. I also don't think that he has the patience to deal with the inter-personal conflicts that arise among a disparate group of people in a stressful situation.

I don't see Daryl wanting to be the captain of their unit. I see him as more of a scout - who operates semi-independently in dangerous conditions. I think that's where Daryl belongs, and that doesn't make him less or more than the "captain", just a different kind of personality type.
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#966

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 2:40 PM

To be completely honest, I think the biggest obstacle aginst Daryl being a leader was Merle. In fact, I can't see him being the Daryl he is right now if Merle would still be in the picture. However, I can picture the Daryl people like Glenn & Carol look up to and I can picture the leader he could become should the situation call for it.

Edited by agora, Apr 1, 2012 @ 2:42 PM.

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#967

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 2:54 PM

Daryl's current position suits him well. He doesn't want to be at the centre all the time. He wants the freedom to be able to withdraw from the group, to sulk and brood over his ear collection when he's in an antisocial mood or to go off on solitary expeditions. He wouldn't have that freedom as leader. I also don't think that he has the patience to deal with the inter-personal conflicts that arise among a disparate group of people in a stressful situation.


The bit in bold made me laugh out loud!

Actually, what you wrote about inter-personal conflicts made me think of something else: Daryl, it has has been suggested, is fairly poorly socialised. I think the intricacies of the group situation, the inter-personal relations, all that subtle communication, is something he's not comfortable with or skilled with.

Daryl's initial reaction to something is either to yell at it, shoot it, punch it or throw squirrels at it. Compare that to all the painstaking, mindnumbing time Rick has spent trying to talk people around this past season. Zombies are easy, people are hard.

Edited by Glorfindel, Apr 1, 2012 @ 2:55 PM.

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#968

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 3:08 PM

Daryl has come a long way. He's gotten more in shape, toned down the comments and made them more jokes, and found his place as an insider where in season one he was more of an outsider. Eventually he could lead a group of self sufficient people or those who are helpless. But I think any time another leader type showed up, he would relenquish the title.

I'm eager to see him interact with our hooded friend.
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#969

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 4:20 PM

What's interesting about Daryl's social skills is that despite not being very good at interacting with groups, he's highly perceptive of what's actually going on and people's motivations, and a very good judge of character. This might come from his childhood, when he probably had to learn to see threats coming from a very early age and probably learned avoidance.
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#970

Vaysh

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 4:44 PM

What's interesting about Daryl's social skills is that despite not being very good at interacting with groups, he's highly perceptive of what's actually going on and people's motivations, and a very good judge of character. This might come from his childhood, when he probably had to learn to see threats coming from a very early age and probably learned avoidance.


Speaking as a fan of the show Lie to Me, which is about lie-detection through reading faces, body language and micro-expressions, I find this idea very interesting. That show was based on the research of psychologist Paul Ekman and he's discovered that there are people who are natural experts (or "wizards" as Ekman calls them) when it comes to reading others, and that often, though not always, these naturals tend to a) lack higher education, and b) to have suffered through childhood abuse. Daryl seems to fit into both these categories. (Unless he's faking being "poor redneck trash" as Merle so charmingly put it and is actually an undercover astrophysicist.)
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#971

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 5:11 PM

Oh, that's fascinating. I can understand the childhood abuse aspect - as the poster above said, picking up on cues to learn to avoid a beating makes sense. But I wonder what it has to do with lacking education? Daryl is somebody who's been presented as intuitively smart in a lot of ways so his ability to understand and analyse a situation makes sense in that regard, but I wonder if it's to do with having fewer culturally taught preconceptions or something?
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#972

Vaysh

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 6:33 PM

To be fair I could be mixing up what was said on the show and what Ekman's research showed; I do have a memory of reading an article about it but it's been awhile. The reasoning was along the lines that those less educated/booksmart compensated with being more streetsmart and those with higher education were more accustomed to reading text than people. I could however be talking out of my bum.
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#973

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 9:20 PM

What's interesting about Daryl's social skills is that despite not being very good at interacting with groups, he's highly perceptive of what's actually going on and people's motivations, and a very good judge of character. This might come from his childhood, when he probably had to learn to see threats coming from a very early age and probably learned avoidance.


All that and a meth addiction don't make him the best Alpha Male Leader (even though he's my favorite character). He's the one I'd want to latch onto to survive, but I don't see him being the figurehead leader, even if he is doing most of the real work and making great decisions.
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#974

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 10:19 PM

All that and a meth addiction don't make him the best Alpha Male Leader (even though he's my favorite character).


I think Word of God is that he's not a meth addict, just Merle is. They were toying with the idea but I vaguely recall Norman Reedus campaigning against him being a drug addict, and coming out on top. If I can find the interview I'll link it. He's definitely done drugs in the past, but I think he's being presented as a dabbler, like being high on shrooms when he allegedly saw the Chupacabra. Remember, he gave up his stash when he heard T-Dog needed meds and I'm fairly certain a hardcore user wouldn't play fast and loose with his stash. Plus an addict would be deep in withdrawal right about now.
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#975

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 10:36 PM

Plus an addict would be deep in withdrawal right about now.

Poor Merle...

*ETA: I mean, I don't think Daryl is an addict but Merle sure was one and I'm guessing he must be in agony without his meds right about now.

Edited by agora, Apr 1, 2012 @ 10:37 PM.

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#976

JOnanGoopta

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 8:39 AM

You might recall that in S1E2, Merle had a nice stash of Walter White's blue meth from Breaking Bad. Maybe he stopped on his way out of town and got some more from his probably now-zombified dealer.

Edit: Oops, it's actually in the episode where Daryl is looking for meds for T-Dog, but it is Merle's stash.

Edited by JOnanGoopta, Apr 2, 2012 @ 8:41 AM.

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#977

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 11:15 AM

I think there's always the chance Merle is still using because he was left in the City, but I don't see how those drugs would last foerver.

Daryl must know Merle is bound to face withdrawal, all by himself, at one point or the other.

Edited by agora, Apr 2, 2012 @ 11:16 AM.

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#978

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 3:55 PM

Daryl must know Merle is bound to face withdrawal, all by himself, at one point or the other.

Merle facing withdrawal, Daryl better keep the stash just in case he runs into big brother again.
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#979

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 10:53 PM

Doubtful considering it was still inside Hershel's farm when they had to abandon the premises.

From the Carol thread:

I'd say Carol & Daryl do remind me of Peter & Olivia (Fringe) in that sense: intimacy is all the more meaningful between them because it's harder for any of them to reach such a state than it's for normal - as in undamaged - people.

I disagree. Daryl had already shown that he was growing emotionally without Carol, and I think he's well on the way to repairing that damage with stems from his upbringing. If anything, Daryl's emotional growth isn't due to Carol, IMO, but due to his escaping Merle's dominance and instead finding himself with Rick

For my life, I've never seen this whole "Daryl is gay for Rick" angle nor do I believe the show is trying to go there, if anything The Walking Dead works for me because the men are manly and the hoyay stays in the realm of fanfiction.

To replace Merle with Rick would do an even greater disservice to the character in my eyes than an instant/unrealistic "repair" of the damage that isolated Daryl from other people.

Edited by agora, Apr 2, 2012 @ 11:43 PM.

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#980

Luckedout

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 11:12 PM

I've never seen this whole "Daryl is gay for Rick" angle



That was not the point of that post at all. Daryl's emotional growth is due to the entire group (named Rick and Co. because CDB is a forum term and it's been confusing lurkers). Rick respects Daryl and Daryl returns that respect. It is platonic and very present in several episodes. In this particular episode Daryl even defends Rick's honor when Carol says that he has none.

Rick is nothing like Merle, but that is a topic for another thread.
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#981

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 11:45 PM

Rick is nothing like Merle, but that is a topic for another thread.

Personally, I believe Rick is 10 times the man Merle would ever be, however, replacing one with the other would be just as bad for Daryl as character.

Edited by agora, Apr 2, 2012 @ 11:45 PM.

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#982

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 12:35 AM

I don't see Daryl replacing Merle with Rick, just that they had been mutually coming to see each others' worth. I imagine Merle would have chased anyone like Rick away before, and shamed Daryl out of befriending him, if he were still around. Since Merle's gone, Daryl's has the opportunity to meet and get to know a lot of people who wouldn't have before the ZA, or even after if Merle were still in the picture. I think it's good for Daryl to make connections with other men who are decent people, and when he was ready to leave, I now wonder if a lot of that was because of Shane. I think he apparently accurately judged Shane's character, and didn't want to be around him. Once Rick seemed to make a break with Shane, and to show more trust to Daryl, Daryl seemed to change his mind some. I like that Daryl seems to like Rick, I think they both could use a friend, and the group needs all the protection it can get. I appreciate his connection with Carol too, but they only seem to have bonded in the last two to three weeks, primarily over Sophia's disappearance and death. That brought out some positive things between them, but also some pretty ugly behavior on Daryl's part. I'd like to see more of Daryl's relationships with the rest of the gang, especially Rick and Andrea, though she's separated from them right now, so that may have to wait. I also think knowing Herschel will be good for Daryl, at least I hope so.
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#983

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 1:38 AM

Personally, I believe Rick is 10 times the man Merle would ever be, however, replacing one with the other would be just as bad for Daryl as character.

I don't see Daryl as replacing Merle with Rick. Those two relationships may look alike superficially, but they are completely dissimilar in my opinion. Daryl's relationship with Rick, for one, showcases just how much he has matured and developed as a man and as a character throughout Season 2, IMO.

I'd like to see more of Daryl's relationships with the rest of the gang, especially Rick and Andrea, though she's separated from them right now, so that may have to wait. I also think knowing Herschel will be good for Daryl, at least I hope so.

Totally agreed, here. Daryl as Rick's trusted right hand, and how that relationship might shift in response to the stresses of Season 3, is something I can't wait to watch unfold. And despite them coming from completely different backgrounds, his one major scene with Andrea showed them getting along wonderfully. It would be interesting to see it put on the screen what their relationship might be like now that Andrea has grown into a strong, self-dependent warrior much like Daryl himself. And there's Daryl and Glenn as well.

I remember somebody saying way back when about Season 2 having way too much focus on dyads (Glenn and Maggie, Daryl and Carol) and triads (Shane, Lori, and Rick). I'd love to see more interaction beyond these boundaries. And especially from Daryl, since with the exception of Carol (and mileage here will obviously vary from person to person) he seems to bring out the best in the large bulk of the cast.

Edited by Mars477, Apr 3, 2012 @ 1:41 AM.

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#984

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 8:16 AM

I also think knowing Herschel will be good for Daryl, at least I hope so.

Herschel is a wonderful character and he projects a protective fatherly persona that will benefit Daryl and all the others. Daryl does need a role model for a father, because his own father was a disaster. He needs Rick, Glenn, and TDogg to be the brothers that Merle wasn't. He also needs Andrea, Lori, Carol, Maggie, and Beth to be his friend.
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#985

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 9:39 AM

The way I see it, its because Daryl might not have had parents that he started to take care of himself and, because Daryl no longer has Merle, that he started to take care of others.

From that perspective, a father figure (Hershel) and a "big brother" type (Rick) would be a set back for the character, IMO what Daryl really needs are people like Glenn, Carol and the late Dale to look up to him, but he won't get them under the terms Rick keeps him around.

Edited by agora, Apr 3, 2012 @ 9:41 AM.

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#986

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 10:22 AM

From that perspective, a father figure (Hershel) and a "big brother" type (Rick) would be a set back for the character, IMO what Daryl really needs are people like Glenn, Carol and the late Dale to look up to him, but he won't get them under the terms Rick keeps him around.


But what are these 'terms'? As far as i'm aware we haven't seen Daryl do anything so far that he hasn't chosen to do. It's not as if Rick is keeping him around on the condition that Daryl is subservient to him on all matters and gets stuck with all the unpleasant jobs. Daryl seems to have chosen to do those.

Or are you talking about the Ricktatorship, which Daryl seems quite supportive of?
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#987

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 11:41 AM

From that perspective, a father figure (Hershel) and a "big brother" type (Rick) would be a set back for the character,


I don't see a relationship between Hershel and Daryl as a setback in anyway. Hershel is mulilayered, prior bad acts from his drinking days, and then Hershel as he is now with a weapon that never runs out of ammo. Hershel is a loving protective father and seeing a dad interacting positively with his children would be good for the whole group.
I didn't mean "big brother Rick", which sounds like Rick would dominate Daryl, I meant a brother who is equal, who you do things with and for, who has your back and you have his. One who you can tease (Glenn) and kid around with.
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#988

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Posted Jul 19, 2012 @ 7:52 PM

I am sincerely disappointed that Norman Reedus wasn't nominated for Best Supporting Actor in a Drama. Fangirling aside, I truly felt he brought his A-game all season and was going he'd get some recognition.
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#989

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Posted Oct 11, 2012 @ 11:09 AM

The symbol he has on his chopper looks like SS.
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#990

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Posted Oct 11, 2012 @ 12:25 PM

That's not his chopper, or at least, it wasn't. That's Merle's, and he was probably the one who put the SS on there.
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