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Kalinda Sharma (aka Boots): The Bisexual Bad Ass with a Bat


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#181

ilovemoose

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Posted May 11, 2012 @ 6:46 PM

I absolutely hated the end of the 2nd season - with Alicia learning that Peter and Kalinda had a ONS. In part, because I like Alicia and Peter together, but mostly because I enjoy the Kalinda / Alicia friendship and I hate that this drop put them at odds. The audience learned about what was happening in Alicia's mind through her conversations with Kalinda......by severing that tie, it put Alicia, Kalinda, and others in a corner, with minimal movement on what was happening with them internally.

I am happy that the end of this season saw a change in Kalinda and Alicia and I hope it continues.

Now, on that reveal, is it possible that the real truth is that Peter and Kalinda did not sleep together? That perhaps whatever was going on, that was a rumor without any truth, and that both Peter and Kalinda allowed Alicia to think it was true because they are protecting something else? Something bigger?

I believe I read somewhere that the Kings planned this, but when I watched the first season over again and even through the end of the 2nd, I kind of feel like it was thrown in there last minute. Kind of, hey, we are renewed for another season, so we need to come up with something to separate Alicia and Peter again. Why not throw more infidelity in the mix?

I do think Will knows more than we realize. He was her attorney before he was suspended and I think, the show has suggested that they are friends and know things about each other. Kalinda sort of trusts Will and Will seems like the character who knows a lot of secrets, but does not let on to knowing them. My suspicion is that Will knows more than Cary does, which is why I think it is him at the door.

The Peter / Kalinda one night stand story doesn't make sense to me...it didn't when it was revealed, it doesn't now. If this is revisited this coming season, which it seems like it needs to be, I am curious to see how plausible it really is.
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#182

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 8:17 AM

Now, on that reveal, is it possible that the real truth is that Peter and Kalinda did not sleep together? That perhaps whatever was going on, that was a rumor without any truth, and that both Peter and Kalinda allowed Alicia to think it was true because they are protecting something else? Something bigger?


I absolutely love this line of thinking. Of course a lot of fans won't like being taken for a ride for a whole season but I think it can be done reasonably well with that explanation. I, for one, never believed that the conversation between Kalinda and Peter in S2 was about a one night stand. I do understand the writers wanted to create tension between Alicia and Kalinda but we've had a season of an underwhelming payoff (IMO), so why not redraw the map and let a bigger conspiracy come into view? It makes sense that when Kalinda learned from Blake that a secret was to come out (and that Blake erroneously thought it was about sex and Kalinda let him) she went straight to Peter and they both allowed Alicia to think the same. A bigger secret is feasible because Peter went to jail (potentially losing his political career and even his freedom altogether), he also risked his marriage and yet, somehow, him and Kalinda are on good terms. "I thought we agreed not to talk about this" and "Kalinda is blameless" are two quotes that can be used to justify the existence of a bigger secret.
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#183

stealinghome

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 10:53 AM

I wish--I really, really wish--but the Kings have gone on record saying that Kalinda and Peter slept together. Now, I totally don't think that's ALL there was--clearly their ONS was tied to something much, much larger--but they seem enamored with this idea of "the BIG secret was actually just a little one: the ONS!", so I think it won't be retconned any time soon. Sadly.
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#184

ilovemoose

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 4:34 PM

A retcon could happen if the writers see that the plan to put tension between Kalinda / Alicia flopped....so even if they went on record to say Peter / Kalinda had a ONS, that doesn't mean they can't go back and change it. So, to me, anything is possible, even this...especially if it opens the door to an even bigger story.

Looking at season 1 and the interactions between Peter and Kalinda - it never appeared to me that something more happened between them other than work. And Peter never seemed nervous that his wife was working with someone he slept with. Of course, the actors may not have known this was going to happen until they read the scripts, so they played it the way they did.
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#185

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Posted May 12, 2012 @ 10:02 PM

Sadly, stealinghome is probably right, the Kings teased a bigger story only to reveal that the true story is actually a small one. They probably can't go back on that idea now but it's also true that I was never convinced of a ONS, nothing onscreen convinced me except the writers TELLING me it happened, nothing was SHOWN (except for Kalinda regretting sleeping with a married woman after the reveal). Beforehand, Kalinda never gave a hint of regret, Peter never showed any nervousness. In fact these talented actors portrayed a more complicated history than was probably on the page.

Edited by Boundary, May 12, 2012 @ 10:08 PM.

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#186

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 3:02 PM

A retcon could happen if the writers see that the plan to put tension between Kalinda / Alicia flopped


In what way did the tension between the two of them "flop"? Because we didn't like it? I think the tension did exactly what it was intended to do: tear apart the Alicia/Kalinda relationship so that it could be rebuilt in a stronger, more interesting way. That wasn't going to happen if it were left to its own devices. It remains to be seen how well the Kings will do with the friendship rebuilding that I'm assuming will be a major arc in season 4, but if it that's unsatisfying it won't be because the rift itself was a failure.

As far as retconning things to make it such that Kalinda never slept with Peter at all . . . I can't think of a bigger misstep than that. First of all, Peter's "It was just one night" clearly indicates that it was a one night stand. If it were some sort of private agreement between himself and Kalinda for a higher, noble purpose, that's not the way they'd speak of it in when they were alone together. But second and more important, the fact that Kalinda had a one night stand with her husband is actually important for Alicia's growth as a character. Alicia is in the process of learning about moral ambiguity, grayness, mistakes, and forgiveness. She needs to forgive Kalinda (love Kalinda) because she ultimately recognizes that life is complex and sometimes people do bad things for complicated reasons. She needs to get beyond her first reaction of "You slept with my husband. You do not get to put anything into context after that." Kalinda slept with her husband, and we've spent a year waiting for the context that we still don't have. When we *do* have it, I'm confident that it's something that will make Alicia understand why such a thing might have happened. If the ONS were suddenly retconned away, none of that growth would be possible, and we'd all have simply wasted our time with a largely unengaging season with no possibility of payback. I'm not annoyed about season 3, because I think it was a necessary setup for a season that has the potential to be amazing. But if we got through it for no reason at all, just to have the basis of it wiped away, I will actively feel betrayed.

Edited by crashdown, May 13, 2012 @ 3:03 PM.

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#187

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 3:19 PM

I think the bigger issue is that the K/A breakup was one of the big reasons that the season flopped. And I do hope the Kings have learned their lesson from that.
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#188

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 4:01 PM

We're getting a little astray from Kalinda, and probably if anyone wants to continue this discussion we should do it on the past seasons thread. But I'd actually defend season 3 as a necessary thing, pending good payoff in season 4. I think there's no way it was going to be as entertaining as the first two seasons, because the Kalinda/Alicia relationship is so central to so much. I also think that the Kings could have shown the two of them interacting more in the first part of the season, and the pacing could have been a little quicker. But if it's done right, season 3 will become the necessary evil that will make season 4 great. (If season 4 isn't great, all bets are off, and I'll hereby stop being an apologist for the Kings!)
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#189

ilovemoose

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Posted May 13, 2012 @ 5:57 PM

To put tension between Kalinda and Alicia - having K sleep with Peter wasn't necessary. To me it seemed like something pulled out of the air because nothing that happened between these characters prior to this reveal made me think they had a ONS. That's why I think a retcon can happen. Sure, some viewers may be pissed at that, but I guess to me, it would make it better because I had a hard time believing it to begin with.

And, it wouldn't negate Alicia's growth. She's still learning about forgiveness, she still missed the relationship she had with Kalinda, and I still think - especially now that she knows there is a dangerous ex out there, Alicia will still want to protect Kalinda. I don't think it changes any of what the characters went through this season.

I hope that season 4 is better overall...for Kalinda, Alicia, and the other characters. I hope that we finally learn the truth of Kalinda, her history, and so on. But I also hope the writers tread carefully - because as much as the story has been teased, if too much is revealed, then I think they run into an issue of keeping some of the appeal of Kalinda alive.

Right now, she's mysterious, which makes her attractive to the viewers and to the other characters. If that mystery is erased (which I guess would depend on how much the other characters know as the story unfolds), could take that interest away.
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#190

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Posted May 16, 2012 @ 12:30 PM

But I also hope the writers tread carefully - because as much as the story has been teased, if too much is revealed, then I think they run into an issue of keeping some of the appeal of Kalinda alive.


Too true. I've actually been through a show previously (Alias) that had an intriguing mystery (Rambaldi) that was generally kept in the background during the show's wonderful first 2 seasons. Then suddenly season 3 saw Rambaldi come to the fore, resulting in continuity errors and a loss of intrigue around the concept. The same is true of Kalinda. Her sexuality has been settled, her background is about to be explored but if we get too much of her it would ruin the show's balance. We still need cases that need investigating and her role there shouldn't be diminished. This is Alicia's show, but Will and Diane need appearances, her kids need appearances and Peter's political storyline needs to be explored. Then you add Cary ...
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#191

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Posted May 21, 2012 @ 1:44 AM

I'm not normally much of a "Kalinda person," but reading this New Yorker article about Carrie Brownstein, formerly of the band Sleater-Kinney and now of "Portlandia," I was powerfully reminded of Kalinda's being "flexible," not overtly bi. The similarities are almost eerie:

Brownstein has dated both men and women, and she was once involved with Corin Tucker, the singer and guitarist with whom she founded Sleater-Kinney. But she hates categories like “bisexual,” and has always felt more defined by her work than by her relationships. “I never think of sexuality as an identifier,” Brownstein wrote in an e-mail. “What seems to have defined me more is that I’m pretty horrible at relationships and haven’t been in many long-term ones. Leaving and moving on—returning to a familiar sense of self-reliance and autonomy—is what I know; that feeling is as comfortable and comforting as it might be for a different kind of person to stay.”


And whoa - it gets even spookier:

—Carrie has a younger sister, who is now a private investigator in Seattle—


Edited by CozyKat, May 21, 2012 @ 1:55 AM.

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#192

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Posted May 23, 2012 @ 12:18 PM

I thought the break up between Kalinda and Alicia was believable and necessary. Kalinda's flexible morality (sleeping with married people) is at odds with Alicia's belief system and Kalinda's unwillingness to be open is at odds with what Alicia needs out of a friendship. To me, something had to give. It was hard for me to buy Kalinda/Peter, but I can overlook that because I appreciated the consequences that Alicia and Kalinda each had to face as a result. And I liked that it wasn't resolved quickly. I don't think that's the kind of hurt a person gets over quickly/easily. A lot of shows would have played that big drama card and then undone it within a few episodes because it was inconvenient in a lot of ways. I'd rather that a show own the consequences and follow them in a reasonably believable way.

I do hope they don't reveal too much about Kalinda because the mystery is part of her appeal, but one thing that I'm happy they revealed is that Kalinda has a heart and can be hurt. It's not all bad-ass all the time. The Kalinda/Alicia friendship has greater depth now. Initially, it might have been reasonable to say that in some ways Alicia clung to Kalinda because she was scared and alone after what happened with Peter. With the blow-up and it's aftermath, Alicia had the opportunity to really choose a friendship with Kalinda. And Kalinda had to face the consequences of often choosing the most expedient path over the right path.

And now that the estrangement is over, I'm looking forward to them kicking some ass together. It's one of my favorite friendships on tv.
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#193

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Posted Jul 1, 2012 @ 7:55 PM

It was clear to me in season one that Kalinda and Peter had a thing in the past. They did not pull it out of their butt as some sort of out of the blue shocker.

Kalinda was the best part of the season finale. I look forward to what they do in season 4 with her character.
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#194

karicola88

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Posted Aug 3, 2012 @ 5:18 PM

I love Kalinda and I love this thread.

I always kind of assumed that it was one of those pilot details that, on further reflection, the writers skunked as the series moved forward. Pilots are notorious for that. (Also because, as much as I LOVE AP, no way she passes for anything under 29 at the ABSOLUTE youngest, and I'm sure the writers realized that.)

It's not so much her looks even, but her whole demeanor. It would be hard to buy that a 25 year old has the confidence, the contacts and the experience of the Kalinda we know. Again, it would also be stranger to see her become friends with Alicia.


I find this discussion of her age fascinating. For me, it's been the opposite. I absolutely think Archie can pass for late 20s now and as 25 in the pilot, having seen many 27 year olds who look much older than she does, and I took what she said about being 25-26 (I forget if Alicia said 14 or 13 years ago in the pilot) at face value and it’s really informed my interpretation of the character. For one, a lot of her outfits are much more age-appropriate if she’s in that age range lol. But that’s a silly, shallow reason. Mostly I feel like there’s a certain plodding quality to her that’s not quite hypocrisy and not quite naivete, but a sort of insecurity, a sense of figuring things out, that youth totally explains to me. There have been some moments, like in Conjugal when she talked about Clarence Wilcox not “allegedly” being a murderer but those jurors being “strong and true,” and Boom when she sorta despondently said “so we’re gonna use racial profiling…. The same thing the cartoon was against…” and Running when she said she was trying to “figure [Detective Burton] out” and when she immediately sighed and said that all those cops were innocent the moment the evidence indicated they weren’t quite guilty, that just seem like a sort of...I don't know what word to use. Innocence? Of course Kalinda isn't innocent and does know the world and how it works and is a huge cynic, but she really comes off like someone who was forced to grow up fast and sort of understands half the world very well and still has things to learn. I don't know how to describe it and don't think I'm doing very well at describing it right now, but whatever it is youth totally explains this discrepancy to me. Of course all those examples are from the first season. I think Kalinda was more grounded then, so things like a concrete age probably applied then and probably don't apply now that she's sort of been amped up into a more heightened character. I also always had this idea of her sort of JUST getting out of Catholic school, where she leaned up against fences, smacking her bubblegum and slapping bitches on the side, and now just happens to work in a law firm. I read this one interpretation/idea by sydneysider in the TGW in Media thread that Kalinda seems "ageless" and I think that holds a lot of weight. I think the truth is somewhere in between. The character kind of exemplifies the magical realism and heightened elements of the show, so it would make sense for her to not have a concrete age. Concrete numbers don't really matter in a heightened reality.

And I don’t mean to be agist at all, but I feel like if she was older, like in her 30s like some online sources have claimed, I feel like that would lend a sort of sinister air to some of her more hedonistic elements. Her sleeping around here and there despite marriage and family feels more like just mistakes and coming into her own sexually if she’s younger. I don’t mean to say people in their 30s can’t make mistakes or that they’re all sinister! I just mean that Kalinda is SO smart and so analytical and so into figuring things out that I feel like if she was older, in her 30s or something, then she would just be continuing what she liked in her 20s and have rationalized it a hundred times over, so it's like she's living in this cesspit of naughtiness that she loves. But if she’s just in her 20s and spent a chunk of that time married to a sexy blonde Brit, then I would think it’s more like her just working herself out. It's more - here's that word again! I wish I had another one... - innocent.

Though the way it comes off onscreen, Kalinda likes women more sexually and also relationshipwise.


I disagree with this. One of the times we've seen her at her most vulnerable was in “Running” over Tony. I think she really liked him and their relationship. I didn't love Tony or that relationship myself - I kind of wish they had gone somewhere a little quirkier with it and milked the dime novel, noir elements and made him a more humorous character - but I have to say, I would take a hundred Tony's over Blake. I wish they'd revisit Tony, just once to give some closure there. And to see her with a vaguely decent male character…

I also would like to register my displeasure that Cary was forgiven so quickly for arresting Kalinda. Ugh...I would LOVE if in season 4 Alicia held that against Cary! That would be genius. I would love to see her transfer the bitchface from Kalinda to Cary for Kalinda. Heck, I'd love to see her go bitchface on everyone for Kalinda like some angry tiger. it would be so cathartic after a season of seeing Kalinda so one-sided in her affection for Alicia.

Edited by karicola88, Aug 5, 2012 @ 11:21 AM.

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#195

Sydneyside

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Posted Aug 4, 2012 @ 5:45 AM

I cannot find it (and I have looked!) But I know I have read an interview with AP where she was talking about Kalinda, Alicia and Diane as charcters in their thirties, forties and fifties. But you'll have to take my word for it unfortunately.
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#196

karicola88

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Posted Aug 4, 2012 @ 11:21 AM

I cannot find it (and I have looked!) But I know I have read an interview with AP where she was talking about Kalinda, Alicia and Diane as charcters in their thirties, forties and fifties. But you'll have to take my word for it unfortunately.


I actually read that interview too! But even if I didn't, I would still take your word for it :)

I just took that as a throwaway comment, or just her interpretation. My interpretation of Kalinda's age probably doesn't gel with hers or the Kings, but I have a feelings that they haven't like sat down and come up with a concrete age for Kalinda. Apparently Archie also said that Kalinda has a dog and that didn't turn out to be shown on camera. I'm actually so curious about her whole interpretation of the character cuz it seems to be slightly different from the Kings backstory. I really hope she like, I don't know, publishes the backstory she wrote for Kalinda when the show ends hah.

Edited by karicola88, Sep 10, 2012 @ 5:30 PM.

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#197

karicola88

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Posted Sep 7, 2012 @ 8:33 PM

What do people think of the scene in Unplugged where, after Tony leaves asking Kalinda to follow him, Kalinda is standing there and getting ready to leave, but then she looks over at the bartender and it's this super-pretty woman? I feel like it's such a unique scene for Kalinda! I just rewatched that episode and realized i totally forgot it and it could potentially be really informative.

I'm thinking that it was meant to show a sort of chink in her armor, indicating that for all her armor and autonomy that she was starting to, or always was and was now just starting to acknowledge again, that she is beholden to visceral attraction. So perhaps this thing with Tony was re-opening that, or OH it could have been a sort of admission of guilt that she was acting on sexual attraction and betraying her "relationship" (likely with Donna). I think the scene was as much meant to indicate that she was attracted to the bartender as she was Tony, and that that's part of why she went out to meet him: Kalinda can have crushes too. But she acted on the attraction that would get her something, the toxicology report.

Edited by karicola88, Sep 7, 2012 @ 8:38 PM.

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#198

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Posted Sep 9, 2012 @ 9:36 PM

Gawd, I go back and forth on what I think about Kalinda and Burton in general and I actually have thought about it a lot. I can't even decide if they had sex or not. The scene as aired is very different in tone to a script I read which adds to the muddle in my head.

I personally believed Kalinda was pretty ambivalent about Burton.I thought Kalinda was aroused by what he whispered in her ear, but deeply ambivalent about him basically saying "put out or I'll stop giving you information". Whether that's because she would be cheating on Donna or simply a reaction to him trying to control her I don't know. As for the bartender, I thought the shot of her was more to make a point about Kalinda feeling exposed. The bartender had been able to watch their interaction. She's also counting money. I took this as drawing a parallel between the bartender trading her attractiveness for tips and Kalinda potentially trading her body for information. I personally found this one instance where the show was too ambiguous.

OK thoughts on the Kalinda discussion on the DVD thread.

From crashdown:

In season one, Kalinda didn't seem to have much to do with Will, and she *did* have more to do with Diane. However, the Kalinda/Diane interactions never rose to the level of friendship

ITA with this. I think the Diane / Kalinda has always been one of deep professional respect rather than anything more personal. And I like that, it's great to see two women work so well together because they respect each other rather than because they are buddies. In the gun purchasing scene Kalinda even says "Look, you're my boss, so I'll do whatever you want." Also, I think it was intentional in the overarching narrative to have the scenes where Kalinda uses the fact that she is background checking Overby for Diane to make the case for her pay rise so that the Kings could contrast Kalinda and Alicia's self-actualisation. We see Kalinda going for what she knows deserves in her pay without support or pushing from anyone else. Then later in the season we see that Alicia needs to be urged multiple times by Kalinda to take the steps to just keep her job.

From karicola88:

I must admit I don't much like this interpretation that Kalinda and Will are playing hot potato with Alicia, though I've seen it elsewhere on this board. I find it quite icky.

Well I find it icky too, but deliciously so. I personally enjoy Kalinda's manipulative personality and hypersexuality, I don't find that detracts from her to me. This is a really subjective read so I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but in "Hybristophilia" it immediately struck me that Kalinda was playing Cyrano to Alicia's Roxanne and Will's Christian. Once I had that thought I couldn't shake it. It's part of why I think that Kalinda's feelings for Alicia have an erotic component rather than being non-sexual agape love. So Kalinda can't have Alicia herself, but wants her happy so tries to steer her towards Will. When she can no longer steer Alicia she steers Will instead. That Kalinda likes Will as well is a bonus, but basically Will is Kalinda's sexual surrogate and her actions are all about Alicia.

From karicola88:

I think the implication in retrospect is more that she believes Peter is irreversibly corrupt, and that part of her refusal to be involved in any work having to do with him, and perhaps part of her reason for playing both Childs and Peter against each other instead of JUST helping Peter in season 1, was part of that. I think the implication is she believes Alicia living just for her family isn't the right thing to do in this situation.

I always read her S1 actions as being basically about trying to figure out what Alicia wanted and then making it happen. She knew Alicia was deeply ambivalent about Peter, Kalinda never really got a straight answer as to whether Alicia wanted him home but instead read between the lines. And I don't think there was much judgement about what form Alicia's happiness took, simply that Kalinda wanted to be the agent to make Alicia happy.

I can even see a justification for her to be called "hedonistic", sure in contemporary use it has taken on a pejorative tone implying decadent self-indulgence, but as its original philosophical meaning "pleasure as the only intrinsic good" I actually think that fits Kalinda well. This is certainly changed since Kalinda met Alicia and developed a devotion that causes her sacrifice herself. But except that I think the text can support that idea. Kalinda is certainly not driven by family, security, righteousness or even position or money IMO. She's very committed to her job, not in the usual sense that a workaholic is but because I believe she takes genuine pride and pleasure in how good she is at it and the intellectual challenge it poses. If she were motivated by money for instance, she has ample evidence that she could make a lot more being a snake-oil jury consultant but we've seen her twice repulsed by their bullshit. Similarly what she used to espouse to Alicia was that Alicia should go after her own happiness rather than playing by the rules. And in Kalinda's personal relationships I can see a rejection of convention (love, intimacy, security) and pursuit of her own enjoyment whether that is purely sexual and physical or manipulation.

From crashdown:

I choose to see Will as someone who (in contrast to Cary) is a fairly sensitive guy who has observed quite a bit about Kalicia from the perspectives of both of the women, but who has refrained from directly interfering until the tax case issue came up.

I agree. When Will perceived the Kalicia rift, it was after Kalinda gave her notice, but was based on nothing more than him seeing Kalinda's body language as she walked from the conference room after the confrontation with Alicia and Alicia's expression. I guess you can say that the bromance is a retcon in the sense that it wasn't their from the start of the series, but to me it doesn't contradict anything and since Alicia coming to LG is the entry point to knowing these people it's not like we can know everything about their past relationships from the get go.

From karicola88:

But, it was Diane who actually handed the case over, and the implication was that she was doing the re-distributing on her own. And I didn't see any implication that Will thought it would heal their rift.

Yes Diane handed it over, but Will enters Diane's office during that scene in "Live From Damascus" and when Alicia asks who the case concerns he says "Kalinda." So Will and Diane must have had a discussion unseen post their previous scene discussing his suspension, since he knows that Diane will give it to Alicia. And as crashdown commented Will can deny his motivations during "After the Fall" but I definitely thought he was returning a favour to Kalinda.
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#199

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Posted Sep 10, 2012 @ 5:25 PM

I'm also pulling a few things over from the DVD thread. Karicola88 wrote the following there on the subject of Will's knowledge (or lack of knowledge) about Alicia and Kalinda:

Now, I say all this based on what's been shown so far. I know the Kings can decide that Will magically "guessed" that Alicia and Kalinda were always friends and all of this will be moot, and I'm sure that's what's gonna happen, but I still think based on what's been shown that it's perfectly fair to think Will was clueless about their friendship for the most part, that Kalinda's whole privacy thing worked at L&G, and that Kalinda has always been driven by the same behavior and motives to push Alicia and Will together, that it was for Alicia and not just some passing the baton thing.


I don't think that this is quite fair on a couple of levels. First, I don't understand the complaint about magical guessing, especially in a show like this one. It's very clear--and it can be frustrating at times--that we're expected to assume that there's a whole world of conversations that go on without us hearing about them. The narrative world of The Good Wife is not bound by the scenes that they show us. At times I think this is a little lazy, but there's no doubt in my mind that it's an intentional way that this story is being told. For instance, it was very clear at the beginning of season three that Will and Kalinda had not had a direct conversation about Will's affair with Alicia--he tells Kalinda that he has to meet "someone" at 8:45, and she remarks about how specific that time is. Kalinda almost certainly suspects what he's up to, but she never refers to it directly, either. After the "hey mom, pick up the phone!" moment, Kalinda and Will both know that whatever cover Will had been trying to maintain is effectively blown. We never get to see the two of them talking about it, but soon after Kalinda asks Will directly about "being close to Alicia" in a way that made it clear that they HAD talked about it directly. That wasn't magic--that was just off-camera life. And there's nothing magical about someone at work noticing a friendship developing between two other people at work--that would actually be a hard thing to hide, especially when Kalinda's desire to help Alicia was externally obvious. It's not that big an office, and Will was clearly especially focused on Alicia. He'd have had to be unusually obtuse not to notice the A/K friendship.

As far as "some passing the baton thing" goes, I just don't see why helping Will get Alicia (something Kalinda knows he wants) has to be mutually exclusive from helping Alicia (which of course is Kalinda's primary goal). Kalinda likes Will, and if she can multitask while she's helping Alicia, so much the better.

This is a really subjective read so I don't expect anyone to agree with me, but in "Hybristophilia" it immediately struck me that Kalinda was playing Cyrano to Alicia's Roxanne and Will's Christian. Once I had that thought I couldn't shake it. It's part of why I think that Kalinda's feelings for Alicia have an erotic component rather than being non-sexual agape love. So Kalinda can't have Alicia herself, but wants her happy so tries to steer her towards Will. When she can no longer steer Alicia she steers Will instead. That Kalinda likes Will as well is a bonus, but basically Will is Kalinda's sexual surrogate and her actions are all about Alicia.


I totally agree with this interpretation, but I doubt that Kalinda is aware of why she's doing what she's doing. One fascinating discussion that we'll never be able to resolve is just how AWARE Kalinda is of how she feels about Alicia. I initially thought that she was pretty aware of her own feelings but just not able to verbalize them, and that Alicia is the one who represses what she feels but is able to say stuff. I've heard the opposite argued persuasively--that Kalinda is unable to process her Alicia feelings and that Alicia knows full well how much Kalinda means to her--and I've lately started to come around to that interpretation. That all has some bearing on the Cyrano thing: pushing Will and Alicia together is a slightly weird thing to be doing, and I do wonder what Kalinda *thinks* she's doing there. Does she think it's all about Alicia's happiness, or is she aware that she's somehow a part of the equation too?
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#200

karicola88

karicola88

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Posted Sep 10, 2012 @ 5:33 PM

As far as "some passing the baton thing" goes, I just don't see why helping Will get Alicia (something Kalinda knows he wants) has to be mutually exclusive from helping Alicia (which of course is Kalinda's primary goal). Kalinda likes Will, and if she can multitask while she's helping Alicia, so much the better.


And I don't see how anyone can reconcile Kalinda having NO relationship with Will when she first started pushing Alicia towards him and still say it's always been this hot potato game of passing Alicia back and forth.
Yeah she likes Will but quite frankly I find this whole idea horrifying and I just can't imagine this show putting this forth as some okay healthy thing, and the way the season ended indicated that Kalinda and Alicia would be moving towards a healthier relationship. Will setting them up as part of this hot potato taints that. Kalinda playing matchmaker is one thing. But Kalinda and Will engaging in a semi-conspiracy to enjoy Alicia basically turns Alicia into a pawn in their sad little lonely game and lends a new level of horror to Will waxing lyrical about him and Kalinda "not being like other people" and "pretending to have feelings." It makes them seem like straight up sociopaths imo. I just can't stomach this idea. I feel like it's taken some very pure actions on the part of the characters, just acting on their visceral feelings and whims, and turned it into a horrifying game ala Les Liaisons Dangereuses.

Maybe this also has to do with my not thinking that these characters all try to protect Alicia and consider her some special thing or object. I just don't see that either. I think they recognize her faults and see her as a person just fine. It just happens that Will and Alicia had a thing and that Kalinda and Alicia are basically soul mates. I can accept the satellite metaphor, but this passing back and forth is just...ugh. I'm sure Kalinda was acting with Will's interest too but no, I just don't see this passing back and forth thing. I know EVERYONE here does, but I don't.

First, I don't understand the complaint about magical guessing, especially in a show like this one. It's very clear--and it can be frustrating at times--that we're expected to assume that there's a whole world of conversations that go on without us hearing about them.


I've mentioned this before and I don't have the energy to do it all again so maybe you can go look at my past posts on the subject in the...I think it was the Dear Showrunners thread. There are A LOT of magical guesses that have happened on this show just to move the plot along. Tammy guessing Alicia slept with Will, Cary guessing about Kalinda's sexuality, Blake guessing EVERYTHING, Will guessing about the rift, Diane guessing about the rift, and a few others I mentioned in that thread. I put it much better in that thread.

Edited by karicola88, Sep 10, 2012 @ 5:45 PM.

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#201

stealinghome

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Posted Sep 10, 2012 @ 5:53 PM

and I do wonder what Kalinda *thinks* she's doing there. Does she think it's all about Alicia's happiness, or is she aware that she's somehow a part of the equation too?

Well, and HOW is she part of the equation? Is it because Will can be a stand-in for herself? Is it because she wants to get Alicia away from Peter so the Peter/Leela ONS never comes out? Is it because she wants to test whether Alicia ACTUALLY could have an affair? Because she surprisingly finds she gets a lot of happiness out of making Alicia happy? So many shades of gray here.

I've mentioned this before and I don't have the energy to do it all again so maybe you can go look at my past posts on the subject in the...I think it was the Dear Showrunners thread. There are A LOT of magical guesses that have happened on this show just to move the plot along. Tammy guessing Alicia slept with Will, Cary guessing about Kalinda's sexuality, Blake guessing EVERYTHING, Will guessing about the rift, Diane guessing about the rift, and a few others I mentioned in that thread. I put it much better in that thread.

I don't think these are magical guesses, though. Magical guesses implies, to me, that there's absolutely no basis for these guesses. Yet all the things you cite here--with one exception--were very well-founded guesses by the characters involved. Their suspicions were all in-character and appropriate based on their knowledge level.
-Tammy guessing Will and Alicia slept together? Really not that hard! Most of their office knew it BEFORE Will and Alicia knew it, for Pete's sake. Tammy knew something was between them, and it doesn't take a genius to think about why your boyfriend (ex-boyfriend?) stops taking your calls just when you break up/leave the country, when you know he's into someone else. I...really think this is just someone being able to add two plus two and get something approaching four.
-Cary guessing about Kalinda's sexuality? You realize he has met Kalinda, right, and has observed her flirt with many people? Again, this is just someone noticing what's around them. (especially because Kalinda imo always exuded such a "back off, straight boy" vibe toward Cary for large chunks of S1.)
-Will and Diane guessing about the rift. I've said above why I don't think it was that hard for Will to notice, because he clearly perceives a change in both characters and starts approaching Kalinda differently, but the show very explicitly had Diane noticing the rift because Alicia and Kalinda could no longer work together. That was the whole point of her "I don't know what happened but you two need to work it out" spiel in--3x01? The S2 season finale? Can't remember when, but the point was very clearly made that Diane didn't care about their personal lives but noticed because it was affecting their work relationship. So not really a magical guess, considering their enmity was noticeable enough to be, well, noticed.

I will, however, give you the Blake thing, because he was clearly a Kingus Ex Machina to start the rift in the first place.

Edited by stealinghome, Sep 10, 2012 @ 5:55 PM.

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#202

crashdown

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Posted Sep 10, 2012 @ 8:03 PM

I will, however, give you the Blake thing, because he was clearly a Kingus Ex Machina to start the rift in the first place.


Ha ha! You get a +1 from me for that line alone! :-)


But seriously folks . . . I completely agree with stealinghome. I'm too lazy to pull up stakes and move to yet another thread to discuss this only tangential-to-Kalinda topic, so I'll do it here briefly. There's nothing odd about any of the characters in the situations mentioned by karicola88 knowing what they knew, save possibly for Blake. (And even Blake isn't completely out in left field--I've always assumed that he learned stuff from Donna the night he took her to the party after the Canning case--she was drinking and angry, a good recipe for some later-to-be-regretted venting. He could have followed the crumbs Donna gave him and figured out whatever he learned. It's not impossible, which is good enough for a television backstory narrative.) If you've ever worked in an office, you'd know that things like friendships and falling outs become very obvious very quickly, even if you're not actively trying to spy on the lives of your colleagues.

Yeah she likes Will but quite frankly I find this whole idea horrifying and I just can't imagine this show putting this forth as some okay healthy thing, and the way the season ended indicated that Kalinda and Alicia would be moving towards a healthier relationship. Will setting them up as part of this hot potato taints that. Kalinda playing matchmaker is one thing. But Kalinda and Will engaging in a semi-conspiracy to enjoy Alicia basically turns Alicia into a pawn in their sad little lonely game and lends a new level of horror to Will waxing lyrical about him and Kalinda "not being like other people" and "pretending to have feelings." It makes them seem like straight up sociopaths imo. I just can't stomach this idea. I feel like it's taken some very pure actions on the part of the characters, just acting on their visceral feelings and whims, and turned it into a horrifying game ala Les Liaisons Dangereuses.


Whoa! If I thought about it *that* way, I'd hate it, too. But that's not how I see it--perhaps I'm just horribly naive. I see them as people who both love Alicia, and at the same time have affection and respect for each other. It's not a sick, sad game: it's two people doing the best they can to take care of the same person (primarily), and to support each other (secondarily). There's nothing horrifying about it; at its worst, it shows an odd kind of (for want of a more accurate word) sexism, because neither Kalinda nor Will treats Alicia fully like a person, more like a glittering object on a pedestal. The nearest analogy I can think of is from Casablanca, when Rick essentially gives Ilsa to Victor Laszlo so he can continue his noble work of fighting Nazis (never mind what opinion Ilsa might have about it all). There's something like that going on here, with all the pathos and romanticism and treating Alicia as an object, but with the best of intentions. I don't feel that I'm representing any of this particularly well, so I'm going to link to this blog post that I think does just a terrific job of talking about these Will/Kalinda bromance issues, especially vis a vis Alicia. (Its author is swatkat, who posts here occasionally.)
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#203

Sydneyside

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Posted Sep 10, 2012 @ 10:30 PM

I'm going to pull apart stealinghome's options:

Is it because Will can be a stand-in for herself?


Yes, I've always seen this as being part of Kalinda's motive.

Is it because she wants to get Alicia away from Peter so the Peter/Leela ONS never comes out?


No, not even after the reveal and giving serious consideration have I thought this. I've always thought that Kalinda caring about Alicia was completely genuine and also totally involuntary. It goes against every self-protective instinct that Kalinda has to make herself vulnerable to another person the way she has with Alicia.

Is it because she wants to test whether Alicia ACTUALLY could have an affair?


I'm assuming you mean 'could have an affair with Kalinda', not just is Alicia amoral enough to do so with anyone? I don't think so. If Kalinda just wanted to get Alicia into bed I think she'd have a fair shot at it, I'm not saying it wouldn't be a challenge, but we've never seen Kalinda make any kind of play towards that. Also, she has a complete lack of jealousy about Will. I think Kalinda's devotion is complicated and bound up in the difference for her between sex and her emotions. I'm confident that Kalinda values an ongoing friendship with Alicia more than a possible opportunity to bed her that risks that friendship.

Because she surprisingly finds she gets a lot of happiness out of making Alicia happy?

Yes. S1 Kalinda was in general so happy going around fixing things for her person. After being mentally tortured for S2, grieving for S3 and presumably tortured again for S4 I really want some happy times in her future please?

So many shades of gray here.

No kidding! I loved this little bit from Jacob's recap of "Gloves Come Off":

And nobody is less nice -- and nobody is more kind -- than Kalinda Sharma.

I thought that was just perfect.

I've always assumed that he learned stuff from Donna the night he took her to the party after the Canning case--she was drinking and angry, a good recipe for some later-to-be-regretted venting. He could have followed the crumbs Donna gave him and figured out whatever he learned.

You're a better person than me, I doubt Donna regretted it later, I think her bitterness pushed her pretty far. I definitely read the first Donna / Kalinda convo line "Don't worry, I won't tell him any of your secrets." as Kalinda having disclosed things to Donna. The Kingus Ex Machina *heh* for me was Blake being so bloody malevolent in the first place and also magically coming up with Leela.

There's nothing horrifying about it; at its worst, it shows an odd kind of (for want of a more accurate word) sexism, because neither Kalinda nor Will treats Alicia fully like a person, more like a glittering object on a pedestal.


I think I get what you mean, perhaps paternalism or parentalism? I think Will's problem is mostly nostalgia. I can see how Kalinda's *cough* emotional issues lead her to carrying that fierce protective instinct she has too far. I know one of my hopes for Kalicia 2.0 is that Kalinda stops performing noble deeds secretly. I am completely down with Sir Kalinda and her chivalry, but be upfront girl. But on the honesty topic (and this is the problem with discussing Kalinda, because again, heading off topic) one thing I really want to see is Alicia actually fronting up and asking questions. At least twice Kalinda offered to tell her things about the SA's and Peter and she once offered to tell Alicia about herself and Alicia backed away, frankly in a cowardly way. I think they enabled each other in the problems that beset Kalicia 1.0. It wasn't just Kalinda lying and dissembling. It's going to be very interesting to see how their relationship plays out this year and whether Alicia will actually be available to hear Kalinda's truth.

I doubt that Kalinda is aware of why she's doing what she's doing. One fascinating discussion that we'll never be able to resolve is just how AWARE Kalinda is of how she feels about Alicia. I initially thought that she was pretty aware of her own feelings but just not able to verbalize them, and that Alicia is the one who represses what she feels but is able to say stuff. I've heard the opposite argued persuasively--that Kalinda is unable to process her Alicia feelings and that Alicia knows full well how much Kalinda means to her--and I've lately started to come around to that interpretation.

crashdown, if you care to articulate further why you're coming around to that interpretation, I'd be interested.

Thanks for the link to swatkat. I loved it.

Edited by Sydneyside, Sep 10, 2012 @ 10:31 PM.

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#204

Deco

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Posted Sep 11, 2012 @ 6:22 PM

I know one of my hopes for Kalicia 2.0 is that Kalinda stops performing noble deeds secretly.


Personally, selfishly, I would love that if only that it leads to Alicia knowing all that Kalinda does for her. Since Kalinda shows she cares by doing not saying, Alicia not knowing risks leaving them in that state where Alicia doubts Kalinda is a real friend at all. Obviously (and hopefully will, by the tea leaves of next season), that needs to change.

But. Only thing is, if Kalinda is the one to disclose such things (which is so against her nature anyway), it brings up the "I'm only doing this for affect, not just...because" spectre that kept Kalinda quiet about helping out with Grace. It would've seemed self serving, to garner points. So, I keep hoping for another venue to Alicia's enlightenment, and I twiddle my thumbs...

Totally agree that Alicia played into the lack of disclosure too. Especially early on, perhaps it was just easier for her not to add Kalinda's inner life and problems to the already full plate of Alicia's? It was better for Alicia when it was simple, no strings, little demands (except a stomach for tequila) and (to Alicia's knowledge at the time), uncomplicated. Oh, the irony...
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#205

Fran2

Fran2

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Posted Sep 13, 2012 @ 9:34 AM

Just been reading back a little and saw the question about that interview where Archie mentions character age groups. I read it in the Sydney Morning Herald:

http://www.smh.com.a...0314-1uyzp.html

By the way, I never thought that Kalinda's comment about being 12 when Alicia was last in the courtroom was meant literally, but as a sardonic, ageist quip at Alicia's expense, on a par with Cary's comment about his mum thinking of getting back in the game, too. Julianna used a similar 'you're twelve' thing in that funny interview with Ellen on how she nearly gave her husband the brush-off at their first meeting.

Despite Archie's comments I think there's a sense of timelessness about Kalinda, yet another of the attributes she seems to share with that figure of Kali lurking in the background.

As for the woman bartender scene in 'Unplugged', I didn't get the impression of Kalinda feeling caught out and observed, but rather that the Kings were underlining Kalinda's sexual fluidity again and that she might just as easily have made off and out with her, if she hadn't needed that file at that moment. To suggest the underlying calculation in all this by having the girl count her own takings at the same time was a nice touch.

I'll take the discussion of a deleted scene involving the same episode over to that new thread.

Edited by Fran2, Sep 13, 2012 @ 9:36 AM.

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#206

karicola88

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Posted Sep 17, 2012 @ 1:12 PM

-Tammy guessing Will and Alicia slept together? Really not that hard! Most of their office knew it BEFORE Will and Alicia knew it, for Pete's sake. Tammy knew something was between them, and it doesn't take a genius to think about why your boyfriend (ex-boyfriend?) stops taking your calls just when you break up/leave the country, when you know he's into someone else. I...really think this is just someone being able to add two plus two and get something approaching four.


How could anyone "know" something that isn't true? If it was before Alicia and Will "knew" it, then it didn't happen yet, so people's assumptions were wrong. It's one thing to assume something based on what you see, to think two people are sleeping together, it's quite another to actually know it.
To make the leap that Alicia and Will slept together, something very specific, is imo quite a leap. It would be one thing if Tammy had tried to ferret out whether Will just wanted Alicia more than her, that Alicia somehow reciprocated in some other way, but to make the leap that they had slept together was...something.
I...really think you should be wary of your punctuation, and trying to snowball this into something so basic as arithmetic is a little ridiculous imo. It's a subjective situation subject to perspective.
I think a situation like being in another country and your boyfriend not calling you actually is such a nebulous situation that it DOES take a genius to assume that your boyfriend specifically slept with someone else.
She even said herself that Will was an attentive boyfriend. I think then that it's quite a leap to assume that he straight up cheated on you.

-Cary guessing about Kalinda's sexuality? You realize he has met Kalinda, right, and has observed her flirt with many people?


You realize you're being incredibly condescending right? I originally came here to avoid this kind of condescension that's so rampant on other boards. Even while disagreeing with you, and seemingly everyone else in succession, I've tried really hard not to talk down to anyone so I'd appreciate if you extended the same basic courtesy to me.
As far as we've seen, Cary hasn't observed her flirt with anyone. And Cary made a very specific claim, that Kalinda has straight up turned people over to her world of sexual fluidity, that he knows "people who weren't anything before Kalinda." The implication is that she's gone pretty damn far with people who "weren't anything" before her. That takes some serious intimate knowledge, or some major balls to make a claim like that. It's just such a ridiculous, enormous claim. I can imagine that it's true to Kalinda's life, but she's private. She would never share at the actual intimate details of how she has sex with people who "weren't anything" before her, especially not with Cary. That's the type of thing that actually requires a verbal explanation; it's not something you can just observe, unless Cary was actually stalking her and looking through her bedroom window.

-Will and Diane guessing about the rift. I've said above why I don't think it was that hard for Will to notice, because he clearly perceives a change in both characters and starts approaching Kalinda differently, but the show very explicitly had Diane noticing the rift because Alicia and Kalinda could no longer work together. That was the whole point of her "I don't know what happened but you two need to work it out" spiel in--3x01? The S2 season finale? Can't remember when, but the point was very clearly made that Diane didn't care about their personal lives but noticed because it was affecting their work relationship. So not really a magical guess, considering their enmity was noticeable enough to be, well, noticed.


But they were working together. They were doing a pretty good job as far as we saw of pretending things were fine on the outside, to the point that they came off uber-polite in front of Diane. Yes, I can imagine there were other behind the scenes stuff Diane and Will noticed, but it just seems like an awful lot of behind the scenes stuff that's then referred to. Maybe it's a matter of my wishing the show had done something different. It felt like a lot of this season was about propping up Diane and her maturity at the expense of the other characters and I would have much preferred to see Alicia and Kalinda be so extraordinarily professional, combined with habit of keeping their personal lives private and away from work, that no one noticed any difference. That would have been extraordinary and different for television, and it would have been more poignant and shown that Kalinda's whole philosophy of privacy isn't so easily breached, that there is hope for living that way.

And then I forgot this, but Lana also magically "guessed" that there is something more to Kalinda and her tax stuff.

Whoa! If I thought about it *that* way, I'd hate it, too. But that's not how I see it--perhaps I'm just horribly naive. I see them as people who both love Alicia, and at the same time have affection and respect for each other. It's not a sick, sad game: it's two people doing the best they can to take care of the same person (primarily), and to support each other (secondarily). There's nothing horrifying about it; at its worst, it shows an odd kind of (for want of a more accurate word) sexism, because neither Kalinda nor Will treats Alicia fully like a person, more like a glittering object on a pedestal. The nearest analogy I can think of is from Casablanca, when Rick essentially gives Ilsa to Victor Laszlo so he can continue his noble work of fighting Nazis (never mind what opinion Ilsa might have about it all). There's something like that going on here, with all the pathos and romanticism and treating Alicia as an object, but with the best of intentions. I don't feel that I'm representing any of this particularly well, so I'm going to link to this blog post that I think does just a terrific job of talking about these Will/Kalinda bromance issues, especially vis a vis Alicia. (Its author is swatkat, who posts here occasionally.)


And treating someone like a glittering object is horribly unhealthy. Kalinda never did that imo, she was always trying to get at the whole Alicia and take her all in and treat her like a person with her flaws. She even begrudged her occasionally
IMO, the whole third season was about these characters moving towards healthier, fuller lives and relationships. The idea that it was actually all about how they're treating Alicia like an object comes off like regression.
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#207

stealinghome

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Posted Sep 17, 2012 @ 1:55 PM

To make the leap that Alicia and Will slept together, something very specific, is imo quite a leap. It would be one thing if Tammy had tried to ferret out whether Will just wanted Alicia more than her, that Alicia somehow reciprocated in some other way, but to make the leap that they had slept together was...something.

I'm pretty sure that Tammy knew Will was interested in Alicia and vice versa. I don't think Will ever said out-and-out to Tammy "I'm in love with Alicia and I have been for fifteen years," no, but Tammy knew. So no, I actually don't think it's some great incredible leap to assume that when you quasi-break up with your boyfriend and he suddenly stops taking your calls, it probably means that something happened with his other love interest. ESPECIALLY if, as you point out, Will was otherwise a super attentive boyfriend. Besides, Tammy was clearly a jealous shrew to begin with...of course that's the first place her mind would go.

How could anyone "know" something that isn't true? If it was before Alicia and Will "knew" it, then it didn't happen yet, so people's assumptions were wrong.

I think you're taking "know" very literally here. The rest of the office strongly suspected that Will and Alicia had feelings for each other--far before Will and Alicia themselves were aware of how they felt about each other. Alicia got preferential treatment because of it. So yes, the office was aware there was romantic involvement there before Will and Alicia formalized it. So they knew that Will/Alicia was a thing, yes.

I think we have to agree to disagree on Cary, because in my opinion anyone who has eyes who works at Lockhart-Gardner MUST know that Kalinda seduces both men and women, and that she gets information out of a lot of women who "normally don't swing that way." I don't think this is a show that has to spoon-feed us people saying things like "Yes, I observed Kalinda flirting with such-and-such-lady on such-and-such-date" for us to understand that other people realize that Kalinda plays both teams. imo, it's just not feasible that Cary would work so closely with Kalinda and not at least strongly suspect. Alicia strongly suspected with just as little evidence to go on, but we don't think Alicia's knowledge is implausible or "magic."

But they were working together. They were doing a pretty good job as far as we saw of pretending things were fine on the outside, to the point that they came off uber-polite in front of Diane. Yes, I can imagine there were other behind the scenes stuff Diane and Will noticed, but it just seems like an awful lot of behind the scenes stuff that's then referred to.

My memory is hazy, but I thought that Diane gave them that talk after they had just totally bollocksed up a case because they weren't communicating (or maybe just before they totally f'ed up?). But even if it was just them being uber-polite, again, that would definitely have been noticed, and given that Alicia's icy bitchiness went up to 13.5 when Kalinda was around, I'm sure it wasn't hard for Diane to figure out that they were feuding.. I mean, Diane guessed something was up with Will and Alicia when he was being uncharacteristic where she was involved after like .5 seconds.

And then I forgot this, but Lana also magically "guessed" that there is something more to Kalinda and her tax stuff.

No--again, maybe my memory's off, but I thought the IRS flagged Kalinda and THEN Lana got involved once she found out (maybe through the ties to the Bishop investigation). I distinctly remember Lana saying something like, I only got involved later.
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#208

karicola88

karicola88

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Posted Sep 17, 2012 @ 2:34 PM

I don't think this is a show that has to spoon-feed us


No it's not, but part of that is that it emphasizes how subjective everything is, and how I most certainly don't have anything I need to "realize." We'll have to agree to disagree on all those points.

No--again, maybe my memory's off, but I thought the IRS flagged Kalinda and THEN Lana got involved once she found out (maybe through the ties to the Bishop investigation). I distinctly remember Lana saying something like, I only got involved later.


That's what I meant. Lana "guessed" that there was something more to this and that going along with the IRS investigation would just happen to yield something. That's probably the most half-assed guess of them all, not to mention the definition of a fishing expedition.
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#209

crashdown

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Posted Sep 17, 2012 @ 3:09 PM

I agree totally with stealinghome's points, and I have to say (again) that anyone who has dealt with office culture would be likely to agree with them. None of these leaps (including Lana's) were anything odd for any of these characters, at least as far as I'm concerned. There's a limit to what can be shown on screen in 42 minutes x 22 episodes, and we need to do some gap-filling. But this is the same old dead horse, and I think we probably should move on to other things. I'm pretty excited that my DVR is just about to show the S4 premiere in its list of stuff. We're getting really close to seeing just how awful that Kalinda/Nick slap fight in the elevator looks as an extended scene!
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#210

stealinghome

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Posted Sep 17, 2012 @ 5:48 PM

No--again, maybe my memory's off, but I thought the IRS flagged Kalinda and THEN Lana got involved once she found out (maybe through the ties to the Bishop investigation). I distinctly remember Lana saying something like, I only got involved later.

That's what I meant. Lana "guessed" that there was something more to this and that going along with the IRS investigation would just happen to yield something. That's probably the most half-assed guess of them all, not to mention the definition of a fishing expedition.

If Lana knows that there's a problem with Kalinda's taxes, how is it a guess that putting pressure on Kalinda's taxes is going to put her under pressure? I don't understand what you mean. My understanding of what happened is as follows: the IRS flags Kalinda. Lana, who almost certainly has an alert set up for anyone connected with Bishop professionally as well as for Kalinda personally, sees this (taxes being the way all criminals are brought down, after all!). She influences the IRS to play hardball with Kalinda--in the process of which they find that more is wrong with her taxes--partially because she knows that exerting pressure on Kalinda's taxes exerts pressure on Bishop (as she states in the scene where Kalinda shows up at her apartment) but also because she just wants to get under Kalinda's skin. That just all seems like governmental SOP to me. (And then, when Kalinda doesn't really play ball, she goes to Bishop to exert pressure on BOTH of them.) Please do correct me if I'm misremembering what the show has said, but that's my understanding of what went down.

Edited by stealinghome, Sep 17, 2012 @ 6:46 PM.

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