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Up with Chris Hayes: Politics, Policy, and Pastries


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#211

M. Darcy

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Posted May 29, 2012 @ 2:47 PM

Here's aChicago Tribune article that explains everything. I get what he was trying to say - he probably could have said it a bit better though.

#212

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Posted May 29, 2012 @ 2:59 PM

I don't think Chris had anything to apologize for. I don't believe the military should be a sacred cow and Chris brought up his points thoughtfully and respectfully. Unfortunately, in today's media, you are not allowed to challenge the status quo. I hope Chris Hayes does not allow this experience to change him since IMO he is the very best that MSNBC has to offer.

#213

FuschiaGoddess

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Posted May 29, 2012 @ 3:13 PM

I don't think Chris had anything to apologize for. I don't believe the military should be a sacred cow and Chris brought up his points thoughtfully and respectfully. Unfortunately, in today's media, you are not allowed to challenge the status quo.


I have no issue with it either - and I'm a Navy Wife. However, it seems like the suits at NBC had some issues with it. A good chunk of the Today Show this morning was used to run the bus over Chris again and again.

#214

Ohwell

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Posted May 29, 2012 @ 3:19 PM

M. Darcy, thanks for the link.

I think I get what he was trying to say. However, there are some things that should be for discussion in private among friends and relatives and whoever. Things like what he said, because he should have known it would cause a shitstorm--on Memorial Day. So I can't say I feel bad for him and it's right that he apologized.

#215

arejay

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Posted May 29, 2012 @ 5:32 PM

Luckily for him, our fallen Heroes would have no trouble refering to him as a "news-opinion show host".

#216

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Posted May 29, 2012 @ 7:20 PM

I don't think Chris had anything to apologize for. I don't believe the military should be a sacred cow and Chris brought up his points thoughtfully and respectfully. Unfortunately, in today's media, you are not allowed to challenge the status quo.

ITA. The 1 thing you aren't allowed to criticise in this country is the military. I have the utmost respect & gratitude for our military, but Chris was spot on with his comments.

I have no issue with it either - and I'm a Navy Wife. However, it seems like the suits at NBC had some issues with it. A good chunk of the Today Show this morning was used to run the bus over Chris again and again.

First, thank you for the service of your husband, & the sacrifices your family endures while he serves.

Second, NBC News has long been pissed that MSNBC went delibrately left; they complained that it would paint NBC News in a similar vein, & they would lose credibility.

Sorry, I'm laughing so hard after thinking they believed they ever had credibility...

#217

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Posted May 30, 2012 @ 9:01 AM

The Atlantic had a nice defense of Chris. My favorite part was "Very few Americans wake up early on weekend mornings to watch public intellectuals chat. For the tiny number who do, Up With Chris Hayes, a show hosted by Chris Hayes of The Nation, has distinguished itself for its unusual success bringing thoughtful, intellectually honest conversation to cable news." Yes, he is the reason I get up early to watch his show and clear out two hours of my DVR.

I watched the show Sunday morning and I must be in close enough of agreement that the conversation didn't even register with me. I guess I know too many former military people who weren't the best role models. This was before any of the most recent wars.

Why is it that Chris gets hammered for his one statement and pundits on other stations who make inflammatory accusations get a pass?

#218

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Posted May 30, 2012 @ 11:46 AM

I just hope that the NBC brass doesn't force him to apologize again on Saturday. He apologized, now let's move on. I think he fell into the trap of forgetting he was on TV while he was attempting to explain an idea that he hadn't fully worked through in his head.

#219

heebiejeebie

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Posted May 30, 2012 @ 7:00 PM

Not surprised that the corporate whore higher-ups clutched their pearls over the "hero" discussion. But despite my disagreement with Chris (I'm with Rachel that there is a distinct and easy divide between the soldier and the war in these matters) in specific I do agree in general that there is a blind determination to celebrate the soldier in ways that refuses to address the idea that Iraq was an unjust war at the very least. Frankly I would love to see some kind of Arab extremist group pull an Israeli type act and kidnpa Dick Cheney and try him in a war crimes tribunal on the internet in a secret location.

But again. Chris' commentary was completely understandable and even laudable. And I think time, a time Chris will live to see, will prove to be on his side. Again in the general.

And if Chris got tasked I'm betting the Hispanic woman whose name just flapped out my skull will not be back in awhile. She was way to the left of Chris even I felt. Bordering on a kind of weird conspiracy type fervor on the message of how the word "hero" is used. I might have missed a few minutes of the discussion but I wanted a stronger voice explaining that many of the young men and women who willingly did and do serve personally find the war in Iraq just was wrong and the bungling of Afghanistan to be criminal. But still they serve.

And I do admit that at one point during the discussion I wanted to pushback at Chris and the woman with my own fervent assertion that the incredible young men all awarded the medal of honor under Obama were heroes. Not a single doubt in my mind. No parsing the term or debating the efficacy of the word lending to pro war memes. And as each and every single one of those men have asserted with utter sincerity; those awards are but the tip of the valor with which soldiers put others welfare above their own.

But to task Chris in the very manner in which Chris was trying to point out is a narrow minded exercise in ignorance only shows that Comcast has just as many old white men in offices as GE did.

The discussion Saturday about Education was frightening and sad. Because essentially they were all right in their way and yet couldn't seem to get the entire problem within a workable scope. Showing that no matter how great our intentions our society here in the US really does not get education and I suspect will not for generations to come. Every single point made I agreed with in part. But when even the People Smarter Than I and Get Paid for that Ability can't seem to look at the issue in its entirity just proves how complex this Gordian Knot of our own making is.

#220

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Posted May 31, 2012 @ 10:42 AM

Talking about the military at all can be tricky. I'm a former Marine and even I feel like I have to be careful. But the fake patriotism of some of the people who would attack him for making a legitimate point is maddening.

Maybe he could have come across more clearly if he had said, stop using the word hero to justify unnecessary wars and deaths. If you want to show that you think they're heroes, make sure they have what they need while they are in battle; that their families have what they need while they're gone; that they have the support and resources they need when they return. Pay them like you value what they do, instead of making them live in double stress, because their families are struggling, even losing their homes. If you want members of the military to be honored by the public, lead by example. But don't wave the flag around, in order to deflect valid criticism.

#221

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Posted May 31, 2012 @ 2:48 PM

Maybe he could have come across more clearly if he had said, stop using the word hero to justify unnecessary wars and deaths. If you want to show that you think they're heroes, make sure they have what they need while they are in battle; that their families have what they need while they're gone; that they have the support and resources they need when they return. Pay them like you value what they do, instead of making them live in double stress, because their families are struggling, even losing their homes. If you want members of the military to be honored by the public, lead by example. But don't wave the flag around, in order to deflect valid criticism.


This. That whole conversation, you could tell that Chris struggled a bit to find the right words to express what he was feeling. He came across as nothing but absolutely respectful and sincere. I was moved with the delicate and solemn touch he used with the mom of the son who committed suicide after multiple attempts. I do believe that the word hero is used too loosely and it makes me so mad at people who bray about patriotism and rah, rah the flag and then do everything in their power to cut funding for services and aid to the military and their families. Quite honestly, it plain just turns my stomach. And to see the best there is on television (in my very humble opinion) thrown under the bus by such folk is mind boggling to me. What is wrong with this country that we are so afraid of honest and open, intelligent discussion?? Chris, you have my full and loyal support.

#222

LADreamr

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Posted Jun 1, 2012 @ 11:28 AM

What is wrong with this country that we are so afraid of honest and open, intelligent discussion??

Amen. It seems like the conversation goes to both extremes: either tip-toeing around every subject, or ridiculous, hyperbolic accusations. Both sides are only succeeding in avoiding topics that need to be discussed. If Chris can be attacked after such thoughtful, carefully considered words, what hope is there for any real, intelligent discourse? Anyway, I hope it doesn't put him off speaking his mind.

#223

heebiejeebie

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Posted Jun 1, 2012 @ 2:05 PM

What is wrong with this country that we are so afraid of honest and open, intelligent discussion?? Chris, you have my full and loyal support.


Particularly, as raised by Chris, it is a country that ran into two wars and then sat back and let the same President and Vice President that rushed us into those wars tell us that images of the returning coffins was unpatriotic. Funny that NBC pretty much went along with this and never really tried to buck the Cheney-Bush administrations form of censorship as Ted Koppel did at ABC. Yet they can pushback at their own for daring to raise questions that are 1.topical due to the actual date 2.topical as they tie into the Presidential Campaign issue of ending the two wars; bringing the troops home and caring for them both in health matters and employment and 3.topical in that the legacy of these wars is our for generations to come.

It is small but telling acts like that this that make me wonder how long the powers that be at MSNBC will let the progressive slant maintain its hold if Obama does win his re-election. Scarborough gets away with making stuff up, telling outright lies and making assertions with no basis for fact other than his overblown ego, even gets to say "fuck" on air and really does nothing but get affirmation from the network. Funny how Scarborough gets to say that the Afghanistan war was always wrong in his eyes (it is never cler when it became wrong as he was pretty clear about being for it when we dropped the first bombs in the fall of '01) but Chris talks about the politics of heroes versus real heroism by soldiers and it is seen as disrespectful.

#224

InnerCanuck

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Posted Jun 1, 2012 @ 2:22 PM

dagny, thank you for the link. In total agreement with you that my (our) own POV must match that of Chris, because I found his comments thoughtful and not at all inflammatory.

If Chris can be attacked after such thoughtful, carefully considered words, what hope is there for any real, intelligent discourse?


Because it cannot be repeated too often, LADreamr...

Edited by InnerCanuck, Jun 1, 2012 @ 2:22 PM.


#225

braggtastic

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Posted Jun 12, 2012 @ 7:31 PM

Just came from the Chris Hayes reading at B&N in NYC. It was a veritable who's who of progressive NY. I saw Sam Seder, Esther Armah & a lot of hippies young & old. I'm sure there were plenty of bloggers who I've read but wouldn't recognize. If he does an event in your city, go. He spoke for about a half hour without notes with such intelligence & clarity, no reading from the book, and then took questions.

#226

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Posted Jun 16, 2012 @ 7:44 AM

The conversation on the show this morning is about Wall Street. It is reminding me about the financial crisis in 2008 - 2009. There were a number of comments from TV pundits that we need these people because they are so talented, i.e. the best and the brightest. It bothered me then and bothers me even more now as I look back on the debacle.

Who crowned these people? Where did they come from? My bet is that many of them came from wealthy families and got their jobs by who they knew.

I worked in a couple different industries over the years; not at the glorified level. I have often seen the real talent passed over for others with less talent. Many times, I've observed those who mess up, clean up the mess, get credit for the clean up and rewarded. I don't get it. Is it possible that those who do a great job with few problems are thought to have easier jobs?

#227

kingofpoppa

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Posted Jun 16, 2012 @ 8:18 AM

Yay! Dave Weigel's here today

#228

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Posted Jun 30, 2012 @ 5:06 PM

"Our side is the constitution, your side is politics, we are good, you are evil and I can not understand how anyone could see otherwise." I hope that Georgetown Prof. is never invited back.

#229

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Posted Jul 8, 2012 @ 8:47 AM

No one wants to ask the #1 question about Mitt's taxes.
Why is ok for someone who wants to be president not to invest in America? Does he not trust American financial instutions?

#230

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Posted Jul 9, 2012 @ 9:26 AM

The look on Anne Lowrey's face when the Econ Prof when on about how Barclay's action was no big deal and hurt nobody was classic. It was as if she knew that there where people who believed in leprechauns but never thought that someone would admit to it out loud.

#231

attica finch

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Posted Jul 10, 2012 @ 9:46 AM

The whole LIBOR thing puzzles me. I think my fundamental issue with it is I can't really believe why making bets on which way the rate will go isn't relegated to the sportsbook room at a casino, instead of being SOP among the banks. Is regulating something so straightforward now impossible? I despair for the republic...

#232

babypinkfish

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Posted Jul 11, 2012 @ 7:25 AM

The look on Anne Lowrey's face when the Econ Prof when on about how Barclay's action was no big deal and hurt nobody was classic. It was as if she knew that there where people who believed in leprechauns but never thought that someone would admit to it out loud.


I think Chris brings on Karl Smith to be the contrarian. At least it's not Nick Gillespie.

#233

ThomasAAnderson

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Posted Jul 14, 2012 @ 12:33 PM

I can't find the show online today. Anybody else having the same problem?

#234

braggtastic

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Posted Jul 15, 2012 @ 10:55 AM

Alexis Goldstein! She's my favorite Up w/Chris guest - I love when she's on.

#235

Ohwell

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Posted Jul 15, 2012 @ 11:13 AM

Alexis Goldstein! She's my favorite Up w/Chris guest - I love when she's on.

Yes, that's her. I was sitting here trying to remember her name. That annoying little female chipmunk who wouldn't shut the fuck up and kept interrupting people. I thought she was extremely rude and full of herself.

The Bain guy was slimy.

Edited by Ohwell, Jul 15, 2012 @ 11:14 AM.


#236

braggtastic

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Posted Jul 15, 2012 @ 12:39 PM

I didn't notice her interrupting anyone, but she is extremely informed on the subject she was brought in to discuss. If anything, I think she comes across as too meek, the opposite of full of herself.

I agree the Bain guy was slimy & wish Goldstein had been on the panel when the Romney/Bain issue was discussed.

Edited by braggtastic, Jul 15, 2012 @ 12:40 PM.


#237

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Posted Jul 15, 2012 @ 1:08 PM

I love Alex Goldstein and I also enjoyed Alyona today. I didn't think Alex interrupted anyone. She was being assertive in her positions and she has such a wealth of knowledge on this issue that she wasn't going to allow herself to be run over. Alyona could have been a bit more assertive. I've seen her show and she is incredibly knowledgeable.

Going back to Karl Smith on the other week's show. I can't believe he is a professor. He seems like such a lightweight. And I don't say that because of the political slant of his opinions, but of the way he talks in generalities.

#238

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Posted Jul 15, 2012 @ 4:13 PM

Well, we will just have to agree to disagree about Alex because in my opinion and based on what I saw, she did interrupt speakers. This was my first time seeing her so I don't know how knowledgeable she is, but there was no reason to be assertive--I call it rude in her case--because the others could barely get a word in anyway. At one point towards the end of the segment, Chris had to cut her off because she wouldn't shut up. As I said, I haven't seen her before so I can't speak to how meek she might have been in the past. All I can go by is what I saw this morning. She was annoying.

#239

attica finch

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Posted Jul 15, 2012 @ 6:02 PM

I was also delighted to see Alexis on the panel. That she was able to specifically rebut that Bain dude on the macro and micro level pleased me enormously.

After seeing Connor on this program and on TDS, I keep thinking his schtick is: who're you gonna believe -- me or your lyin' eyes? And having double-barreled rebuttals from Alexis and Bill (from remote) was refreshing, and something not every tv show does.

On a shallow note, I covet Victoria DeFrancesco Soto's hair.

#240

M. Darcy

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Posted Jul 16, 2012 @ 8:24 AM

I agree the Bain guy was slimy

Yeah, that attitude of everyone is just too stupid to understand high finance was annoying. I don't think he helped Romney at all.

FYI, the plate of pastries is now on twitter - @UPPastryPlate.