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Juan Carlos "Juice" Ortiz: NOT Black. Not a Bit. No Sir


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#1

TWoP Howard

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Posted Sep 17, 2011 @ 12:08 PM

I had no idea his name was Jean Carlos until I looked on Wikipedia. Also, it took me a few minutes to recognize him with the new haircut. I think he looks really good without the mohawk.

He hasnít had a chance do anything techie yet this season, has he?

#2

nicepebbles

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Posted Sep 23, 2011 @ 6:42 PM

I thought Roosevelt said his name was 'Juan'. Or maybe I heard that because Puerto Rican equals Juan in my head not Jean, which would've expected if he said "I'm French Candian." Lol.

Anyway, At the end of the day, it's not clear to me that Juice's dad isn't Black Puerto Rican. I know for a lot of Latinos/Hispanics, ethnicity trumps race. So if you say, "You're black" he/she will come back with, "No, I'm Puerto Rican/Mexican/Whatever." It's really going to depend on the circumstances in which the person was raised. Roosevelt said, IIRC, that he looks African-American. That doesn't mean he is. So when Juice said, he's a "Puerto Rican from Queens" he wasn't lying if Papa Juice is Black Puerto Rican. Even if Papa Juice is African-American, I have no problem with Juice only identifying as a Puerto Rican.

We all are free to identify ourselve as we see fit. It could be he identifies as such because a) when he looks in the mirror he doesn't see a black man as most people wouldn't and/or b) he has no connection to that part of his DNA. I have some Portuguese in my DNA (maternal great-grandfather) but I say I'm an AfAm from Jersey. Am I lying (sins of omission) about that? I don't think so and I'd dare anyone to tell me otherwise. I see an AfAm woman when I look in the mirror and I have no connection to that part of my heritage other than the DNA, some pics I've seen of my GGF and a desire to get to Portgual one day.

I also think that someone like Juice (parent of different race if dad is AfAm) identifying with only one side, which happens to be the non-black side, is different from someone like me, only identifying with my non-black side.

Juice is a long way from Queens. Depending on the how and why of presence in Charming, that could explain his non-disclosure of his father's skin color. It might've been intentional or it might've been a non-issue for him since he has no connection to that part of him.
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#3

krissy24514

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Posted Sep 29, 2011 @ 12:45 AM

Perhaps this is naive of me, but I'm not sure how much SAMCRO are really going to mind Juice having black heritage. I know racism runs deep in SAMCRO but he's been a part of the club for so long, I would think it would be a non-issue for most of the members - particularly Jax and Opie. For the others, I'd imagine they'd just shrug their shoulders and say, "I don't love it, but whatever."
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#4

tam flood

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Posted Oct 2, 2011 @ 12:07 PM

I thought Roosevelt said his name was 'Juan'.


On the official FX character page, it was always 'Jean-Carlos', but sometime between Seasons 3 and 4 (I think) they changed to it 'Juan Carlos'. A lot of Wiki-type pages haven't caught up. And if anyone's seen an explanation for the change, I'd love to know.
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#5

TWoP Howard

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Posted Oct 4, 2011 @ 6:47 PM

Maybe they were originally going to have him be half-Haitian rather than PR and some assistant never changed the name.

I know racism runs deep in SAMCRO but he's been a part of the club for so long, I would think it would be a non-issue for most of the members - particularly Jax and Opie. For the others, I'd imagine they'd just shrug their shoulders and say, "I don't love it, but whatever."

I can believe itís the kind of issue that would leave Juice with some nagging doubts as to how heíd be received, because a person just never knows, which is what Roosevelt is counting on. I also think it is likely that if the word got out, there would be at least a couple of the guys who had a problem with it, and that would be enough to add more stress and conflict among the club.

#6

sekhet7

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Posted Oct 14, 2011 @ 7:10 PM

My problem with Juice's story line is that why did no one in SAMCRO find this out earlier? MC's do extensive background checks on potential members (in fact, that's one of Tig's roles as Sgt. At Arms) and I find it hard to believe that no found out about Juice's dad before hand-especially if Roosevelt and Linc could find out about it so easily. It just makes no sense that this would come up now.

It just seems so illogical to me. Other than that, it's a bold idea, I will give the writers that much. It's just that I find the execution of it to be rather poor.
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#7

swtp15

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Posted Oct 19, 2011 @ 8:05 PM

My problem with Juice's story line is that why did no one in SAMCRO find this out earlier? MC's do extensive background checks on potential members (in fact, that's one of Tig's roles as Sgt. At Arms) and I find it hard to believe that no found out about Juice's dad before hand-especially if Roosevelt and Linc could find out about it so easily. It just makes no sense that this would come up now.

It just seems so illogical to me. Other than that, it's a bold idea, I will give the writers that much. It's just that I find the execution of it to be rather poor.

But Juice didn’t even know for sure until Roosevelt told him. I just assumed he told the club he grew up without a father and they just left it at that. Maybe they checked into his mother and his life in Queens but when they looked into his father everything they found pointed to him telling the truth that he didn’t know him and they just dropped the issue.

Edited by TWoP Howard, Oct 20, 2011 @ 6:34 AM.
Added capitals, punctuation

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#8

MuShu

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Posted Nov 9, 2011 @ 11:56 AM

My problem with Juice's story line is that why did no one in SAMCRO find this out earlier?


Because SAMCRO is a bunch of idiots. They would have known. Even in the non internet days, the ability of these assholes to get privileged info was impressive.

One reason for the no blacks rule is homogenity-A group who thinks alike and has a very similiar cultural experience will be easier to control. They're nothing more than a cult, really. Second, yeah, good old fashioned rascism, but that's nothing new to organized thugs.

Juice is the one believable character to me because it was common to prospect for young men from broken homes. He's not a sociopath like the higher ranking members, but since they took him in and provided a "caring" family, he shows unwavering loyalty to his family, though he knows it's wrong. Sort of like Stockholm syndrome.

What's next for poor Juicy? Will we find out he's gay? I've never seen him around a woman. Poor little bird. Roosevelt needs to redeem himself and get the kid a good deal and out of this shit.
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#9

TWoP Howard

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Posted Nov 9, 2011 @ 3:04 PM

That would be an interesting way for the show to go. I loved watching Juiceís face as Roosevelt apologized to him. The idea of a cop apologizing to him and meaning it was mind-boggling to him.

#10

Tricksterson

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Posted Jan 7, 2012 @ 5:33 PM

I just find it amiusing that an outfit calling itself "Sons of Anarchy" still clings to a rule that Chibs, and I'd be willing to bet Jax as well, consider a relic.
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#11

Megamos

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Posted Jan 11, 2012 @ 9:08 AM

I just find it amiusing that an outfit calling itself "Sons of Anarchy" still clings to a rule that Chibs, and I'd be willing to bet Jax as well, consider a relic.

I was kinda thinking (hoping) the same thing. Jax kept Juice's suicide attempt a secret, he was willing to let Chibs take care of him. If Juice's parentage is found out by Jax I'd bet he would be willing to keep it a secret too. Jax is much more kind and compassionate than Clay, we've seen evidence of that. I believe that he would be on Juice's side if this were found out by the club and now that he is president he has much more power and control.

I just hope that Juice decides to use this whole situation to become a stronger, better person. He has the support and love of his best friend and surrogate father, Chibs. He has gotten a glimpse of what a real man is when the sherriff apologized to him. Juice has two examples of the man he should strive to become in Chibs and Roosevelt, he only has to make the choice to do so.
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#12

TommyWalt

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Posted Dec 12, 2012 @ 10:41 PM

Juice's role as the club's tech-savvy member shouldn't have been dropped, if you ask me. It's a much more interesting character development device than the club's crying member...
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#13

mparcher

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Posted Jan 1, 2013 @ 7:52 AM

Theo Rossi and Kim Coates in Boston the second week of January.

http://www.youtube.c...eature=youtu.be
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#14

Empress1

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Posted Jan 3, 2013 @ 6:37 PM

Theo Rossi was in Law and Order SVU last night. Weird seeing him without tattoos on the side of his head.
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#15

Lilybee

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Posted Jun 20, 2013 @ 1:07 AM

The club should have realized that when they vetted Juice that he could have had some black blood. Puerto Rico has a large ethnic mix. Many of the people from PR are mixed having Native, Spanish and AA blood. If anyone really thought about it, it would not be a surprise that Juice also had some AA blood.
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#16

TWoP Howard

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Posted Jun 20, 2013 @ 1:05 PM

If anyone really thought about it

 

There's the problem right there. Also, these guys are not exactly up on history. If they were an East Coast gang, they probably would have been aware of the possible ethnic mix of a Puerto Rican. In California, I suspect that other Latino nationalities dominate, and these guys are too self-absorbed to think about it. 



#17

taiko

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Posted Oct 25, 2013 @ 9:35 PM

I have heard that during WWII draft boards reacted in much the same way. With New York and Florida boards being more likely to send lighter skin toned Afro-Latinos to segregated units


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