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4-10: "Burning Down the House" 2011.08.28


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#301

nonshan

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Posted Sep 3, 2011 @ 6:38 PM

I can't help but feel like the Tommy argument is a moot point. They established that hospitals can't help. Plus, I know Sam mentioned vamp blood but I don't really think he had V readily available. And then Tommy died within a few minutes. I agree Sam should have tried harder. But I'm pretty sure Tommy woulda died anyway.

That's the thing- Sam should have tried harder. Why didn't he? Because if he did, then the writers would have no way for the skinwalking to transfer to him. Now they can say that Sam's allowing Tommy to die was in effect a mercy killing.

So I think the sole reason that they wrote the scene that way was for that plot point, throwing characterization out the window. Sam wouldn't have given up so easily, and Alcide was completely out of place there. It was poor writing, and I think that's why it bugs me so much.

#302

Bookrat

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Posted Sep 3, 2011 @ 10:39 PM

That's the thing- Sam should have tried harder. Why didn't he? Because if he did, then the writers would have no way for the skinwalking to transfer to him. Now they can say that Sam's allowing Tommy to die was in effect a mercy killing.

So I think the sole reason that they wrote the scene that way was for that plot point, throwing characterization out the window. Sam wouldn't have given up so easily, and Alcide was completely out of place there. It was poor writing, and I think that's why it bugs me so much.


Word. I think that is why there some viewers, myself included, who were really turned off by this. It wasn't moving for me to watch Sam just stand there and watch his younger brother die, it was maddening. As I've said before, Sam could have given V to Tommy thinking it would cure him and have it fail. I really like the idea of vampire blood being fatal to skinwalkers and that could have been a way to have the skinwalking abilities transfered to Sam.

However, I am not sure that the writers are going to have Sam become a skinwalker. I think Tommy's death was to show viewers that skinwalking leads to death. Tommy only skinwallked three times and the third time killed him. Marshall's interview read as though Tommy planned to die when he went as Sam over to the werewolves. (Suicide by skinwalking...so very lame.)

#303

DollEyes

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Posted Sep 4, 2011 @ 3:32 PM

Re the whole Tommy's death scenario:
First of all, I think Sam and Alcide have no real rights to be on the revenge path against Marcus, since we know Tommy either died by suicide or because Sam and Alcide's denied him care. Marcus and friends just beated him up (something Sam himself like to do to people every now and then), and that after he walked in their lair and started provoking them.


Gotta disagree. Alcide and Sam have every right to be involved, since it was Marcus who lied to Alcide and implicated him in Tommy's death against his will. Then there's Marcus' threats to Sam, trying to kill him and succeeding with Tommy. The guy whom Sam beat up also happened to be one of Tommy's killers, who is no more of a saint than Crystal's late daddy, the guy whom Sam beat up, who dissed Sam and provoked him more than once. Tommy may have wanted to die, but that doesn't mean that Marcus & Co. should get away with killing him.

Alcide is a big boy and he should have stayed out of it in the first place. it was bad judgment to help a guy like Marcus on an errand like that, but even worse judgment by not stopping things sooner. And now he's tagging along with Sam, trying to make things right, but it's still Sam's death to avenge not his. He was complicit in Tommy's death on some level, and his presence in the revenge plot is rubbing me the wrong way.


Not me. Marcus is not only a big boy himself, he was the ringleader, so he could have stopped that shit much sooner, left Alcide out of it and/or never started it in the first place. Alcide is no more willingly implicit in Tommy's death than Tommy himself or the actual killers. Marcus looked Alcide in the eye and lied about his intentions re Sam and Tommy was suicidal, so he probably would have died eventually anyway, no matter what Sam, Alcide or anyone did. To me, Alcide's only mistake where Marcus was concerned was giving Marcus the benefit of the doubt. It's Marcus' behavior that's offends me. Marcus is a bully, a liar and a cold-blooded killer and Alcide's the bad guy? Not buying it. As for Alcide's involvment in Sam's vendetta, that's up to Sam. If Sam didn't want Alcide's help, then I think he would've said so-and Alcide would respect his wishes just like he did Tommy's because that's who Alcide is. He tries to do the right thing as much as possible, whether it's p.c. or not, whether other people like it or not. If Sam wants Alcide's help, then that's good enough for me.

Edited by DollEyes, Sep 4, 2011 @ 3:33 PM.


#304

ScrubMonkey

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Posted Sep 5, 2011 @ 4:15 PM

The type of 'person' Marcus was, he fully hoped Sam would die during the beating. The other men were doing his dirty work for him so he could shrug and declare an "oops" and possibly not do jail time. He'd turn on them in a minute, to reduce or negate his own sentence in the matter, if he could. Not that he's that much of a thinker.

The only time he even paused was when "Sam" said he and Luna hadn't slept together. But everyone who took part in the beating is culpable, especially the one that began kicking Tommy in the ribs while he was flat on the floor. This wasn't about teaching anyone a lesson but a wolf pack ripping a threat to shreds.

#305

RaisedOnTV

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Posted Sep 6, 2011 @ 2:30 PM

I really cannot understand the viewpoint that an ensemble cast would be better without the ensemble. If AB got rid of the rest of the characters we would be left with Sookie, a take-a-number dispenser and a large "Now Serving Vampire #" display.

The sad death of a character who was disliked by many has been the main topic of discussion for over a week. I loved Tommy because he was so complex, and consistently complex which is more than can be said for most of Bon Temps.

Still I cannot imagine watching True Blood without Terry or Andy or Holly or ick! Arlene. Lafayette, Sam and Tara are just as major as Jason, in my opinion. If nothing else it gives the viewer something else to watch instead of seeing a steady diet of Sookie and whomever.

Pam is just a foul-mouthed bigot in Chanel, but everyone seems to love her! Jessica has boarded the vampire entitlement train and is on her way there, too. At least Jessica still has conversations with people beside her maker that don't end in vitriol and slurs.

Edited by RaisedOnTV, Sep 6, 2011 @ 3:19 PM.


#306

K42

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Posted Sep 6, 2011 @ 4:52 PM

Also, I'm surprised Eric attacking one of the Wiccan during the Battle at Cemetery Pass is still up on debate. In a field battle, if you manage to take control of one of your enemies, why in the hell you should find tactically useful to have him attack one of your own allies instead of just another enemy? And that, even if you happen to despise your own allies very much: they still aren't trying to kill you at the moment, so maybe you can kill all of them later, with more ease? Sun Tzu is very perplexed right now.

because marntonia is/was trying to convice people that humans were continously being victimized at the hands of vampires and that they needed to eradicate all vampires.

Err, no, during the Battle at Cemetery Pass (we're not talking the convention here, we're talking about the girl killed by Eric at the cemetery), she had nobody to convince, all the humans were already on the path of war, armed with anti-vampire weaponry and going for the "true kill", Tara included. There was no need to boost their faith at that point.

Also, Sookie caught Marnie while she was halfway casting the spell, so they successfully disrupted her. Whatever effect that spell was going to have, it didn't go off.

Why is so hard to believe Eric just went and killed an enemy, exactly like he was expected to do? I don't get what's the problem with that, and why we should go for a convoluted explanation of something so straightforward: Sookie warned them, Bill gave his signal of charge!, Eric did what he does best: he charged.

Edited by K42, Sep 6, 2011 @ 4:54 PM.


#307

ScrubMonkey

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Posted Sep 9, 2011 @ 9:03 AM

So I think the sole reason that they wrote the scene that way was for that plot point, throwing characterization out the window. Sam wouldn't have given up so easily, and Alcide was completely out of place there. It was poor writing, and I think that's why it bugs me so much.


Yeah. For instance, Sam could've tried to pour some V down his throat but Tommy could've been too far gone already and just gurgled it back out again. He could've died with it dribbling down his chin. Another piece of bad luck for Tommy.

I don't know where the V could've come from - maybe they could've set something up prior, maybe when Andy visited Holly for a date (but then he'd have had to see her more than once - but that whole thing fizzled out pointlessly instead also.) But no, he stormed out with Holly's roses instead. Sam could've found a vial of V, though, and put it in his safe not knowing what else to do with it for the moment. (He can't exactly report it to the police when one of them left it there.)

I don't know...but something. For him to just watch Tommy die was unconscionable. At least explain away his nearly killing Marcus in rage that it's partly Sam's impotent guilt.

#308

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 5:19 PM

That dress Sookie is wearing at the beginning - where can I buy me one?

(Just kidding).

I guess she can't always be wearing shorts or sundresses.

/edited to say: was not a dress, was a dressy top with three! different! colors! of hearts.

Edited by Leatherstocking, Dec 31, 2011 @ 1:24 AM.


#309

zomb

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Posted Dec 30, 2011 @ 7:48 PM

First of all, I think Sam and Alcide have no real rights to be on the revenge path against Marcus, since we know Tommy either died by suicide or because Sam and Alcide's denied him care. Marcus and friends just beated him up (something Sam himself like to do to people every now and then), and that after he walked in their lair and started provoking them.

I think they had every right to avenge Tommy because the shapeshifter was Sam's baby brother and Alcide was an alpha without a pack so in a broad, primal, atavistic sense revenge was theirs to claim whether or not Tommy made the conscious choice to walk into the werewolves lair.

As humane as they may seem, these characters are all part of different clans of shifters, therefore obey to rules that aren't neccessarily human, something Marcus must have been aware of since he was the packmaster that led the clan who killed Tommy.

Edited by zomb, Dec 30, 2011 @ 7:50 PM.


#310

Leatherstocking

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 1:27 AM

I pretty much agree with you, Zomb. There is no "right" to revenge - it's a primal urge mediated in all cultures by totems and clans. TB is showing what happens when someone stomps on someone else - who happens to have a different code of justice.

TommySam was defenseless, and four burly guys kicked him to death...that in and of itself means the Bad Guys need to get a lesson - and most burly Bad Guys don't learn any other way.

Marcus ordered the beating and expected Alcide to take part...

#311

agora

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 8:11 AM

TB is showing what happens when someone stomps on someone else - who happens to have a different code of justice.

Or a different system altogether: vampires have their own Sheriffs - who impart their own justice system over humans and vampires alike - so I don't see why werewolves and shapeshifters can't have their own justice system as well.

#312

zomb

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 1:16 PM

Marcus ordered the beating and expected Alcide to take part...

I reckon Marcus expected retaliation as soon as he figured out he killed the wrong brother, that's why he took Emma - and tried to take Debbie - with him.

Happy 2012 everyone!

#313

Leatherstocking

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 1:37 PM

Okay, so the reason they killed off Tommy (Marshall Allman) is that the kid was such a good actor and he got two movie offers during 2011, etc. This is what every ensemble cast hopes for: he was given great, juicy things to do (and would have gotten more) but he got a whole movie! As a main character!

Plus, they needed to start killing off a few minor characters.

Why not Alcide, you ask? Alcide does nothing but get naked, stand around, carry things or sometimes drive a car. He throws a few punches (doesn't even do much of that). Well, the poster for Season 4 needed a third man in it, and it needed the man that women thought was most awesome naked and that would be Alcide.

So Alcide got to stay so he could anchor the lower right hand part of the promotion poster and touch Sookie's leg.

Tommy got to go off to be a main character, a supporting character, do other television and get another movie (for 2013). Yay Marshall.

Oh and it was too bad they killed Tommy just when the were pack found out they had a skinwalker on their hands...but that may have caused subplot implosion of a magnitude not yet seen on TB (and they've already had imploding subplots).

Happy New Year, Zonk - it's great having someone else putter around in these late season 4 forums...

Happy New Year to all TB fans everywhere! Resolve: to save the last two episodes until at least mid-January...it's tough...

Edited by Leatherstocking, Dec 31, 2011 @ 1:39 PM.


#314

agora

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Posted Dec 31, 2011 @ 4:29 PM

So Alcide got to stay so he could anchor the lower right hand part of the promotion poster and touch Sookie's leg.

Storywise, I think Alcide wouldn't have worked out because Marcus had to be replaced as packmaster by another alpha and the show already established Alcide was that alpha, so he was not going to be killed off.

Not to mention, Marcus had no quarrel against him at the time, so it would've made no sense to me to go after him when both Tommy & Sam had already slept with his wife (which is why Tommy offered himself in the first place).

Edited by agora, Dec 31, 2011 @ 4:36 PM.


#315

zomb

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Posted Jan 1, 2012 @ 10:55 AM

Okay, so the reason they killed off Tommy (Marshall Allman) is that the kid was such a good actor and he got two movie offers during 2011, etc.

I reckon Tommy was already dying due to the skinwalker's side effects after they shift into so many people so many times, hence the reason he went through that last shift in order to save Sam from the beat up. Problem is: his body gave out before the fight was over, so Marcus's pack realized they were killing the wrong brother.

Oh and it was too bad they killed Tommy just when the were pack found out they had a skinwalker on their hands...

They still have a skinwalker in the form of Luna (or Emma herself if she ever kills someone from her family).

Edited by zomb, Jan 1, 2012 @ 10:55 AM.