Jump to content

Dance Moms


  • Please log in to reply

8321 replies to this topic

#3631

lanorigb

lanorigb

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 3:28 PM

I'd think that Abby's attacks on Holly are as frequent as hers on Christy and IMO Holly is nowhere near as confrontational as Christy is. Holly seems to pick her battles with Abby because her career takes a large amount of her energy along.  I'd agree that a successful, attractive black woman is more than some people can handle, even those who don't think of themselves as racist. It's more of a Christy is a trouble maker to Abby, but Holly is a black troublemaker if that makes sense. Abby seemed pretty clueless about why Holly had a problem with Nia being typecast in ethnic dances and didn't get that Holly didn't want her kid reduced to just black when choreographing for her.

Edited by lanorigb, Apr 8, 2012 @ 10:39 PM.

  • 0

#3632

T Scrumptious

T Scrumptious

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 7:59 PM

I think Abby is threatened by Holly because she's successful and well educated. She makes Abby feel stupid. Christy isn't as much of a threat because she's not as smart and well spoken as Holly. When Christy fights with Abby, she rarely gets her point across without freaking the shit out. Holly is usually calm and well spoken and much harder to argue with. Abby always comes out looking absolutely stupid. Holly's race might have a contributing factor, but I think that if Holly was white, Abby would have a similar reaction because she'd still be threatened by her.
  • 0

#3633

astaire

astaire

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 8:17 PM

"Dance Moms" is pretty far removed from reality. It is clear that this episode, like most of this show, is edited for maximum drama. Scripting? Very likely. Reality shows do script, this I know for a fact (I am friends with a professional actor who was cast as a customer in another reality series and he was told what to do and say).


In other breaking news.....water is wet.
  • 1

#3634

meatball77

meatball77

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 8:21 PM

Holly is usually calm and well spoken and much harder to argue with. Abby always comes out looking absolutely stupid. Holly's race might have a contributing factor, but I think that if Holly was white, Abby would have a similar reaction because she'd still be threatened by her.


I agree. It's not because she's black, it's because she's smart and that she talks like an educator. Holly is experienced in talking to people that are out of control and making her point known calmly and that makes Abby nuts. Abby always ends up coming out looking bad when she talks to Holly and she's obviously intimidated by her. She also always ends up giving her whatever she wants in the end. Nia as part of the trio, nia getting a pretty solo. I think Nia's gotten more solo's than Paige
  • 0

#3635

hatchetgirl

hatchetgirl

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 8, 2012 @ 9:51 PM

Also, the pressure Abby and Melissa are putting on Maddie is insane. Poor kid. But the way Chloe felt so bad for her broke my heart too, and the look on Chloe’s face when Abby was comforting her – you could tell Chloe wished Abby had done that for her last week when she forgot her solo.


I just couldn't get over this!!! Maddie was honestly freaked out! It was frightening to say the least and poor Chloe! Did Abby honestly not congratulate her over her 1st place win? It was sickening. :(

And I think Holly has class and wish she would take Nia out of this crazy place. :(

Edited by hatchetgirl, Apr 8, 2012 @ 9:51 PM.

  • 1

#3636

scarlet revised

scarlet revised

    Video Archivist

Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 1:25 AM

I really like Holly but I judge her more harshly than the others for having her child stay with Abby. As a principal, she would be more conscious about the effects of this kind of behaviour on children and it's kind of cringe worthy watching a principal endure this kind of abuse.

It makes her look weak and I don't know if she's going to be able to function in the school system again without parents and students giving her the side eye. In fact, I wonder if the leave of absence was completely voluntary. I get the feeling she's sacrificing her career for this show. I hope the gamble pays off.
  • 0

#3637

mckennish

mckennish

    Channel Surfer

Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 12:14 PM

What most disturbs me is Melissa's personality issues. She is not natural in her reactions to her children. If one of my children felt sick in the middle of a dance class I would take her home. Melissa is so obsessed with dance that her children are just props to her dreams. When dancing becomes life and death to you, it is time to take a cold clear hard look at just whose dreams you are fulfilling. Maddie is a good little dancer, but she needs more help with technique. Her mother is so coldly ambitious I fear for the type of person Maddie is turning in to.
  • 0

#3638

Crocodileguy1

Crocodileguy1

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 3:50 PM

McKennish:

Yes, took the words out of my mouth. That woman comes across almost sociopathic--before she had her freak out when the moms were asking her where her ring went, her facial expressions were just off. It was like she was having a glitch in the system. Then she tears downstairs and riles Maddie up by telling her she can't dance anymore because of the other moms. WHAAAAT? Makes no sense.

I wouldn't believe a damn word coming out of Melissa's mouth (or twitter account) as she is a proven liar ("Greg sent the lawyer letters"), she pursues married sugardaddies to bankroll her dance dreams for her daughters, and she manipulates others for her own sociopathic satisfaction.
  • 0

#3639

T Scrumptious

T Scrumptious

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 4:13 PM

Nia as part of the trio, nia getting a pretty solo. I think Nia's gotten more solo's than Paige


I think that we don't see all of the solos. I think most of the girls perform a solo at the competitions. I'd wager that Nia and Paige have had about the same amount of solos. It's impossible to say though, because what we see isn't their reality.


I really like Holly but I judge her more harshly than the others for having her child stay with Abby. As a principal, she would be more conscious about the effects of this kind of behaviour on children and it's kind of cringe worthy watching a principal endure this kind of abuse.


But I really don't think Abby is that abusive to the children in real life. I think a lot of her awfulness is for the show, you can sometimes see snippets of their real relationships and it's quite different from Abby the Monster. Yes, the kids are exposed to it, but I'm sure it's explained to them beforehand. I do agree that Holly will likely have trouble professionally because of the show. Most people do not recognize that this show is largely made up.

Edited by T Scrumptious, Apr 9, 2012 @ 4:13 PM.

  • 0

#3640

Tasya

Tasya

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 8:58 PM

I think that before the show came calling, Abby likely only interacted with the younger kids peripherally, and at competitions. If you look at her site, not the ALDC one, but Reign Dance, you'll see the class schedules posted. Abby has the older students, and Gianna is the one with the younger girls. Those schedules also blow a hole in the entire "Melissa doesn't schedule privates for anyone else" story line as well, because you can see all of the girls have just about an equal amount of time. The only difference being that Maddie and Chloe both have 1 1/2 hour sessions, while Nia, Page, Brooke and Kenzie usually only do 1 hour. I have been checking Reign Dance since the show started, because they usually post more results on that site.
  • 0

#3641

PolkaDotty

PolkaDotty

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 9:31 PM

The only difference being that Maddie and Chloe both have 1 1/2 hour sessions, while Nia, Page, Brooke and Kenzie usually only do 1 hour.


Do they have these sessions with Abby or Gianna?
  • 0

#3642

funky rat

funky rat

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:13 PM

I hadn't even watched this show until about 2 months ago. It didn't much appeal to me, but someone who does like the show asked me to watch it because of something they saw. The company I work for is loosely tied to the dance world, and sure enough, in Abby's studio were a bunch of items that came from the company I work for. I know my customers pretty well, and I did not recognize "Abby Lee Dance" or "Reign Dance", but I did recognize "Maryen Lorrain Dance" when I got on her website. I used to deal with - I'm assuming - Abby's father. Maryen is her mother.

And of course, I've been sucked in. Plus I love free advertising (we've had some things on a few other tv shows and it's always pretty cool).

I've read a bunch of the back pages but because I've pretty much missed all of last season, I'm a little lost on those postings. Is Abby an only child? From everything I've seen, it would seem so, and make much sense. I'm an only child, and while I don't have a family business to take over or anything, I worked with a woman who reminded me so much of Abby growing up. Her mother was a big hoo-hah, and this woman was expected to step in where her mom left off. When our moms attempted to get us some time to be kids, she'd punish the rest of the group and tell them to blame us for it. So initially, I cringed and was reminded of all those times with that woman growing up (it was with a kids performance group - singing, skits, etc), but funny thing is that as I'm older, I realize that we were good. Really good. I see kids doing things like that nowadays, and none memorize their lines. They stand up on stage, face buried in a script, reading their lines like robots. We had memory checks and got yelled at, but we knew our lines. We had emotion. Not everyone got a part - if you couldn't memorize your lines, you didn't get in, and if you were too little to memorize but was good at mugging with the audience and she thought you had potential, then you got sent to background parts. She was driven because she was so linked to this group that her mom started that it was a personal affront to her if we did badly. And when I see kids doing skits somewhere, face down, barely audible, I find myself saying "Sheesh! Memorize your lines and speak up!". Scary stuff. She had kids late (a few years before I aged out of the stuff those kids were doing), and I gave her credit that she treated her kids the same once she had them, and they were old enough to join.

I was also heavily into music performance, and I had a director that most kids hated. And a lot of parents, as a lot of kids went home in tears. My mom wasn't into coddling me, and told me that I'd just have to do better if I wanted him to lay off me. When I was done with middle school and about to go to the high school,and a different director, he walked up to me with a big smile on his face. He handed me a folder, and wished me luck, and said he'd be watching, and he was glad I stuck it out because a lot of kids quit rather than go to high school band. I worked up my nerve and asked him why he was so hard on me and some of the other kids, and appeared to let others skate. He told me that he rode the kids who were talented and didn't bother with the ones who were just there because their parents forced them, or the like. The ones he knew would quit. He said they weren't worth his energy. And again, those of us who stuck it out and were rode by him were good. We played well. We took direction well. We had discipline. I still play - 20+ years out of college (where I also played). I ran into him, and that made him very happy.

So while I don't always like what she says or does, I get it. And I know that much of this show is edited for maximum effect. And a lot of the drama comes from the moms. If they'd butt out, it would be very different.

None of the stuff that I did (band, the performance group, ice skating, roller skating, etc) had a parents gallery. Our parents weren't there, and it was much better. I asked one of my customers at work (not a dance school but in a similar vein) about the parents gallery since their website advertised one and she said she put it in only after a lot of jawjacking from helicopter parents, and she hates it, but she has strict rules. The martial arts school my husband used to teach at had a parents area, but it was away from the studios where the kids were and they were forbidden from class. And things ran much smoother.

Just my two cents.
  • 0

#3643

Sarraghina

Sarraghina

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 9:52 AM

funky rat, I get what you're saying. And to a certain extent, I agree. However, in today's day and age, I would not allow my child to go somewhere with an adult where I couldn't keep an eye on them until some trust was built (and even then, it doesn't take much to break trust). I respect the rules of each place my children have been - soccer, gymnastics, swimming, music, etc. But it has to be a 2-way street, a give and take. (And most of the time, I'm backing up the coach/teacher, not my kid - but I do it in a way that my child understands.)

I have a friend who was talking to a music store about piano lessons for her sons (2nd & 6th grade). She asked the teacher (not necessarily the one who'd be teaching them, but the head teacher) what sort of background checks are performed on the teachers, since these would be one on one sessions. The teacher was insulted and got very rude with her in response. She actually said, "I'm sure none of our teachers would do anything." And you know this how?

It's obviously done for the show, but I have a problem with the moms interrupting class to discuss issues. If you have a problem, and it doesn't involve injury or serious harm, address it after class with the teacher only (not the other students or mothers). And THAT is a huge problem with this show! So, yes - the moms should butt out...but where's the drama in that? :)
  • 0

#3644

funky rat

funky rat

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 12:28 PM

Thank you. I was in a sinus infected haze last night when I typed that, so you captured most of my point. I don't have an issue with parents staying at the studio, but rather butting in, breeding drama, etc. The martial arts studio my husband taught at had a parents area, but it wasn't attached to the studio - no windows, etc. The teacher refused to have it. He said it encouraged the kids to be distracted. But they were all fully-vetted and background tested, and there was NEVER a one-on-one situation, unless private time was booked, and if you were booking private time, you had a good trust with the instructors.

My mom never "dumped" me and ran off if that's the way I made it sound. She did leave the building for ice and roller skating, but it was a group thing with a number of instructors, and we knew other kids in it, so she felt ok with it. The performance group was through a church, and again, we knew other people involved, etc. The lady I was talking to at work who had the viewing gallery said she laid down ultra strict rules with it, such as not arguing or fighting, or interrupting class, or waving at the kids, etc. She said violators were shown the door.

I wanted to say one thing with regard to the Joffrey deal. From what I understand and what I've read, it appears that Chloe got accepted to the one in New York. It appears Maddie got accepted to a "new" program by the same people in LA that has a concentration in Jazz style dancing. That would make sense, as her ability pushes her that way, as opposed to ballet. But I also wonder if they didn't mention it on the show because she's being asked to come because she's a "name" and they think it will entice other kids to want to go (especially it being a new progrmam)? We work with a few top-name training programs where I work (not dance, but another discipline) and all of them are all about bringing in "names" either to train at their facility (have your kid train along side "XYZ" this summer!) or teach (have your kid taught by "ABC" this summer!). Of course, the "name" gets free training, room, board, other perks, and if they don't need to worry about accepting money for their time, they'll get paid. It's a win-win.
  • 0

#3645

Tasya

Tasya

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 2:19 PM

The LA program is run by Mia Michaels, who is enough of a name herself that I don't think she'd have to use Maddie to get people to attend. My niece went to a Mia Michaels intensive before and it was packed with kids. She's gained so much recognition from SYTYCD, that she is attracting students in droves.

Do they have these sessions with Abby or Gianna?


From what I've seen on the site, all of their sessions are with Gianna. Sometimes Gianna will post on twitter that she had Chole and Maddie in her room working on their solos right up until they go on stage. I have a strong belief that the vast majority of their stuff is coming from her.

I think that Abby's involvement with them is scripted right down to the footage shot during their "class times". I would bet that they have their normal posted schedules and then a separate TV show schedule. In fact that can actually be proven. On twitter someone asked Abby why she has a problem with Chloe, she posted that she "loves the kid and wishes that she was hers, but she doesn't like Christi", and she responded that 1) She works with Chloe a lot but editing cuts it out 2) She has a really difficult time working with Christi and preshow, Chloe had a lot of opportunities that Christi chose not to take advantage of and 3) Christi didn't bring Chloe to class at all in September and has spotty attendance on Tuesday for taping. That follows with the schedule that's posted on the site, since their classes are listed as Monday and Wednesday.

I also think that limited exposure to Abby in the past is why the kids don't seem really intimidated by her.
  • 0

#3646

funky rat

funky rat

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 2:49 PM

I had no idea who Mia Michaels was. I don't think I've ever watched "So You Think You Can Dance?". So perhaps not, but the places I deal with at work don't have any trouble bringing people in, but they have - in the past 15 or so years - been bringing in more "names". Not sure why. I do know it's really expensive to attend these places that I work with, so perhaps they feel it's justification. Who knows?
  • 0

#3647

Bethanne

Bethanne

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 3:09 PM

Holly is experienced in talking to people that are out of control and making her point known calmly and that makes Abby nuts.


ITA, Meatball77. My husband is a school principal and I can't tell you how frustrating it is to argue with him! I'll be in the heat of the moment, and he can be sitting there cool as a cucumber, making complete sense. It has to come from being in a position where you are verbally abused by enraged parents on a regular basis. In fact, he and all of his colleagues have to take continuing education classes called "Crucial Conversations" which teach them how to communicate with people who are full-on bringing the crazy.
  • 0

#3648

dmmetler

dmmetler

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 4:13 PM

I can see it being worth it to give Maddie a scholarship, even with Mia Michaels, though-there are a lot of little girls who haven't watched SYTYCD, but who know who Maddie is-and moms who would LOVE to believe their little girls have that level of skill. And really, the incremental cost of a single scholarship to an intensive isn't all that much once they're having the intensive, especially if the scholarship doesn't include housing.
  • 0

#3649

meatball77

meatball77

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 4:39 PM

Some of those programs give scholarships to the top half or 3/4 of girls who audition to encourage their parents to think they're special and send them to the program.
  • 0

#3650

SleepyJean

SleepyJean

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 4:49 PM

Does anyone know where Abby gets the girls' costumes? If they really do have new routines every week, that seems like too short of a turnaround to order costumes, especially if they're customized in any way. And even if they had someone in-house to make them, it doesn't seem like a lot of time to make costumes for so many group numbers, trios, and solos (even with the moms chipping in to apply crystals and sew on appliques). So where do the costumes come from?
  • 0

#3651

meatball77

meatball77

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 5:38 PM

It really doesn't take much to make dance costumes. Most of their costumes are a combination of bra top + leggings or butt shorts (pre-fabricated) and then they're rhinestoned or appliqued with tule or skirts added on. A seamstress could easily do them in a few hours. Some of their costumes are catalog (the queen of hearts costumes) but the majority seem to be really basic custom (pieces that are bought and then customized) instead of made from scratch.
  • 0

#3652

astaire

astaire

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 5:54 PM

I can see it being worth it to give Maddie a scholarship, even with Mia Michaels, though-there are a lot of little girls who haven't watched SYTYCD, but who know who Maddie is-and moms who would LOVE to believe their little girls have that level of skill.


Outside of SYTYCD Mia teaches around the country at conventions and private studios. She sees strong young dancers all year long that match or exceed Maddie's ability. Maddie's technique is nothing extraordinary for Mia Michaels to show extra consideration. Don't get me wrong, she is very talented but as shown throughout the season and at the ballet audition she has some technical foundation issues.

Some of those programs give scholarships to the top half or 3/4 of girls who audition to encourage their parents to think they're special and send them to the program.


Absolutely, getting a "scholarship" isn't necessarily prestigious.
  • 0

#3653

Tasya

Tasya

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 6:23 AM

If Maddie's scholarship to the LA Joffrey isn't thought of as prestigious or well earned, then I would say that Chloe's is even less so. Maddie's wasn't written in to the story line, and took place off camera. Chloe's was a full on Dance Moms scripted and likely sponsored one.
  • 0

#3654

PhxTVWatcher

PhxTVWatcher

    Channel Surfer

Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:41 AM

Y'know what I would love to see in the second half of the season even though it will never happen? I would love to see Brooke move up to compete with the senior company with Payton and Brandon and whoever else seem to compete with that group. You see Payton's name in competition results on their website, so I'm assuming she competes with the senior company. It would be interesting to see how the older kids do, especially if that's the group that Abby used to work with more before the show started.
  • 0

#3655

Venee

Venee

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 12:20 PM

If Maddie's scholarship to the LA Joffrey isn't thought of as prestigious or well earned, then I would say that Chloe's is even less so. Maddie's wasn't written in to the story line, and took place off camera. Chloe's was a full on Dance Moms scripted and likely sponsored one.


There seems to be quite a bit happening that we never see. Strangely, the only girl listed on Abby's site as being given a Joffrey scholarship is someone named Hope Roberts (who isn't even on the show).
  • 0

#3656

astaire

astaire

    Couch Potato

Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 2:23 PM

If Maddie's scholarship to the LA Joffrey isn't thought of as prestigious or well earned, then I would say that Chloe's is even less so.


You are 100% correct. The whole audition storyline was seen as as ridiculous by those of us in the dance world.
  • 0

#3657

becw182

becw182

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 8:48 PM

Evidence the show is not all that true http://www.youtube.c...h?v=tuZI8p_7Wc8

The girls performed this without Brooke/Kenzie/Kendall back in early days and with another dark-skinned girl. Only very slight differences from the gun dance- same costumes and everything...

*Edited for clarity

Edited by becw182, Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:01 AM.

  • 0

#3658

Tasya

Tasya

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:15 PM

That's not really evidence that the show is scripted, although I don't doubt that it is. All dance studios repeat routines. The more unbelievable part is that the girls are learning a new routine for each show. Generally each competition team focuses on a few routines for the entire season. Currently ALDC's junior groups non-filmed routines seem to be Inside of Me (Maddie & Chloe), Born to Dance & Where Have All the Children Gone (Small Group).
  • 0

#3659

becw182

becw182

    Loyal Viewer

Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 6:10 AM

hm i just meant they repeat routines. put it badly

Edited by becw182, Apr 12, 2012 @ 6:28 AM.

  • 0

#3660

meatball77

meatball77

    Fanatic

Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 8:49 AM

It's evidence that the outraged behavior is scripted. If the dance had been done before then there was no reason for the outrage over the guns.
  • 0