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Cersei Lannister: Keeping It in the Family


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#1

Titus

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Posted Jun 21, 2011 @ 10:16 PM

I think the Queen Regent deserves her own thread. There is nothing I love to watch more than a ruthless and powerful woman, especially in genre shows. Think of Atia of the Julii from Rome or Lucretia and Illithyia from Spartacus and now we have Cersei. While this may be a bone of contention, I like the differences in her characterization on the show versus the book, at least the first one. Her scene with Robert was beautiful and showed a different facet and what might have been if fate had been a little kinder to the Royal Couple. I can't wait to see what happens to her now that her son is on the Iron Throne while she acts as Regent while having to deal with Tyrion as his Hand!

And her relationship with Jaime is delightfully twisted. I hope these two crazy kids can find some happiness!

Edited by Titus, Jun 21, 2011 @ 10:18 PM.

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#2

Khellus

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Posted Jun 22, 2011 @ 10:27 AM

Time for another round of: What Should the Character Do?

Cersei's situation is... bad. Ignoring, for the moment, the fact that her idiotic son killed Ned and now the Starks will never sue for peace under these circumstances, there are two, substantial, enemy forces very close to Kings Landing, Renly and Stannis's.

Renly has called his banners and Stannis has called his. However, because of his relationship with Loras Tyrell, Renly is probably also going to have an alliance with The Reach as well. This is very bad. The Reach and the Riverlands are the main source of food for Kings Landing. If this war drags on too long, the population of the capital will starve, and in their hunger, they will be eager for someone to blame, and who better than the well fed, rich royal family?

Stannis is another threat, but a purely military one. Stannis is a celebrated general, and if he captures Kings Landing he will show no mercy to her or her family.

So what are her options? What Should Cersei Do?
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#3

Maximum Taco

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Posted Jun 22, 2011 @ 12:58 PM

So what are her options? What Should Cersei Do?


Honestly she's kind of boned.

Obviously before Joffrey went all medieval on Ned her plan was to let Ned take the black (or maybe even trade him for Jaime) and sue for peace with the Starks which would have brought the Riverlands back under the King's peace.

Now though she has three enemies, and one army.
1) Starks, peace is not possible. As Tyrion said not only did they ruin their chances when they chopped off Ned's head. Robb's winning. Why would he quit now?
2) Stannis, a man who seemingly only cares for justice. He wouldn't make peace if he had the noose around his neck.
3) Renly, with the might of the Tyrells is obviously another problem. With a bankroll and army behind him Renly could easily overrun King's Landing while the Lannister forces (which have already been halved thanks to Robb's victory in the Whispering Wood) are occupied with the Starks.

Her best option is almost certainly to forge alliances with the Dornish and the Greyjoys, perhaps via marriages to Tommen and Myrcella. Then she might stand a fighting chance against the three armies bearing down on her.

Edited by Maximum Taco, Jun 22, 2011 @ 12:59 PM.

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#4

Danny Franks

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Posted Jun 22, 2011 @ 3:25 PM

Time for another round of: What Should the Character Do?


Well my first advice would be, find another family member to do, quickly. But she's already on top of that one, so to speak.

Yes, Joffrey royally screwed up her plans, which would have worked bloody fantastically, by the way. With Ned admitting his treason, and mercifully being allowed to join the Nights Watch, Robb would have no choice but to bend the knee to Joffrey. And once Sansa is married to Joffrey, it would actually be in Robb's best interests to be a loyal and committed supporter of the king.

Hell, he'd probably have end up fighting for Joffrey against the Brothers Baratheon. As would the River Lords.

She can't realistically make peace with any of her opponents. Robb is never going to even think about it, and if Stannis believes Joffrey is an incest bastard, then that makes Stannis the rightful king. He's not going to pass that up.

Renly... well I guess Renly just wants to be king himself, and figures he can do it the same way his brother did. Kill whoever is currently sitting on the throne.

So all Cersei can really do is hope her daddy can fix a few things for her, with his army. She can try to cozy up to Dorne, or one of the as yet uncommitted houses, but I would guess that they'd drag their feet until they knew what the likely outcome was. Why commit yourself to a cause that you don't know can win, unless you have to?
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#5

fbc2

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Posted Jun 23, 2011 @ 6:48 AM

I'm really loving Show Cersei. A great improvement over the flat one-note villain of the books.
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#6

silverspine

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Posted Jul 6, 2011 @ 9:58 PM

I've grown kind of fond for Cersei as she's tried to keep Sansa in the loop. I think she sees some of herself in Sansa, so naive about the object of her affection, which is why she tries to convince her son to be kind to Sansa. It might seem cruel, how she forced Sansa to choose between her future husband or her father, but we all knew it was probably that or death for Sansa and Cersei knew this too.
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#7

Sweeney555

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Posted Jul 7, 2011 @ 4:39 PM

I think she's only being nice to Sansa in order not to make the Starks and their army even angrier at the Lannisters. She hurts Sansa, that means a greatly reduced chance of a clean death if Robb and his forces capture King's Landing. She kills Sansa, and all bets are off. I think Cat would cut Cersei's heart out with a spoon.

It might seem cruel, how she forced Sansa to choose between her future husband or her father


To be fair, I think Cersei had no idea that Joffrey wouldn't behave as advised and pardon Ned, and instead have his head cut off. If she had expected that Ned might be beheaded, she might have seen to it that Sansa wasn't present to witness it.

Edited by Sweeney555, Jul 7, 2011 @ 4:40 PM.

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#8

Constantinople

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Posted Mar 20, 2012 @ 6:02 PM

Admittedly, Robert's inability to get over Lyanna did nothing for their marriage, but that hardly excuses her behavior. It's almost as if she had a death wish.

To top if off, she's a terrible mother, never disciplining Joffrey while simultaneously smothering him, and perhaps a worse adviser, "everyone who isn't us is an enemy". Way to fuel paranoia.
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#9

Blood

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Posted Mar 21, 2012 @ 8:25 AM

A way to fuel paranoia sure and should be delivered with more temperance to Joffrey, but at it's core also true. House Lannister especially doesn't have friends, but all the noble houses are always competing for power with each other to some degree. If it's not with other Great Houses then it's with their own bannermen who don't follow the commands of their liege lord out of kindness.
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#10

Titus

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Posted Mar 26, 2012 @ 10:52 PM

From what we've seen in the trailers, I love how they're dressing Cersei in Season 2. With Robert out of the picture and her power ascendant, she is no longer content to remain in the backround and is dressing more boldly accordingly. That red dress really brings out her "Lioness of Lannister" persona. Hear Me Roar indeed!
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#11

dananj

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Posted Mar 28, 2012 @ 3:18 PM

Sweeney555 you're absolutely right Cersei had no idea Joffrey was going to chop Ned's head off. She was as shocked as anyone and is not happy at all with these turn of events. In the second season I'm sure that will be explored. Also the Starks have Jamie, she's probably is worried about him. Since Ned is dead, it probably wouldn't turn out well for Jamie if Sansa was killed as well. Cersei needs Sansa if only as a bargaining chip to get back Jamie.
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#12

bluvelvet

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 2:20 PM

The way they were dressing her probably had to do with the fact that the actress was also pregnant at the time they did season 1.
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#13

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Posted Mar 31, 2012 @ 7:14 PM

From what we've seen in the trailers, I love how they're dressing Cersei in Season 2. With Robert out of the picture and her power ascendant, she is no longer content to remain in the backround and is dressing more boldly accordingly. That red dress really brings out her "Lioness of Lannister" persona. Hear Me Roar indeed!

Her hair (well, wig, but whatever) is much better, too. They seem to be cooling it with the super-fussy southern updos (she had some truly WTF hair in some episodes, like her braided updo at the 1x01 feast, and her weird bouffant thing at the first scene of the tourney in 1x04). There's a shot of her in a promo where her hair is half-up, half-down and she looks gorgeous.

I did see the red and gold gown in the promo, and it looks beautiful. Cersei and Sansa's gowns are interesting, in that they're not that tight around the bust and they're bound at the waist with these wide belts. Throw in the long, draping sleeves and the lovely, detailed patterns (with birds or other animals), and they almost look like kimonos. I think Cersei and Sansa are the only characters to be costumed in this way; even the other female southern courtiers aren't wearing gowns of this specific style. Cersei and Sansa's gowns could on the other hand be almost interchangeable (towards the end of Season 1 and the ones we've seen in Season 2 promos); they both wear blue and lavender gowns.
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#14

agora

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Posted Apr 1, 2012 @ 9:15 PM

Well, it's only the first episode and she already slapped Joffrey so at least that's one thing I like about her this season.
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#15

corvus13

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 2:27 AM

Joffrey should be slapped in every episode. :)
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#16

agora

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 10:55 AM

I couldn't agree more.

I think it's all the more special when his mother slaps him because it reminds me that, no matter how dangerous, Joffrey is still a child.

Edited by agora, Apr 21, 2012 @ 2:18 AM.

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#17

kieran555

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 11:45 AM

I wasn't really sure why Littlefinger would be so bold, but her response was very effective and I think spoke deep to the character's beliefs as well.

I was actually quite impressed with Cersei in this ep. Dealing with her son, looking all concerned and off balance in her excellent scene with Tyrion, putting Littlefinger in his place (successfully or not), clearly knowing killing Ned was a mistake. Some good range from her in fact.

Edited by kieran555, Apr 2, 2012 @ 1:00 PM.

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#18

emjay1116

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Posted Apr 2, 2012 @ 5:24 PM

First time I liked Cersei. Haha. Five books and all of last season, and I have always really hated her. But damn, she was awesome last night. Totally pwning Littlefinger, slapping Joffrey (when are we gonna get another long loop of Joffrey being slapped on you tube? And there's more of that coming up, right?), and looking really damn good (seriously, she is so pretty and her dresses are amazing).
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#19

Avia

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 12:57 AM

Is Lena wearing new contact lenses this season? I don't remember her eyes looking so light-colored or striking last season.
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#20

Titus

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 10:11 AM

Not sure but since Lena has naturally green eyes (what a relief for the producers!), I can't see why they would make her wear green contacts. Her wig is a much richer shade of blonde this season compared to Season 1 so that could be it. Looks like widowhood does become her!
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#21

Blue32

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Posted Apr 7, 2012 @ 3:37 PM

when are we gonna get another long loop of Joffrey being slapped on you tube?

If you search "Cersei slaps Joffrey" on Youtube, at least seven posters have independently uploaded the clip of Cersei slapping Joffrey already, at least one of which is a looped clip. Ha!

Cersei is looking even more gorgeous this season: the gowns are richer, the hairstyles are better, and her makeup is perfect. Widowhood does seem to agree with her, as Titus mentioned.

I'm really enjoying Lena Headey in the role. She could have been played as a generic ice queen--even though Cersei is the opposite of an ice queen, really--but Headey is doing something really exciting and different with the role.

Edited by Blue32, Apr 7, 2012 @ 3:43 PM.

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#22

Danny Franks

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 4:28 PM

I'm really enjoying Lena Headey in the role. She could have been played as a generic ice queen--even though Cersei is the opposite of an ice queen, really--but Headey is doing something really exciting and different with the role.


I agree. I've liked her since the first episode, and it's really her portrayal of Cersei (and NCW's of Jaime) that made me comfortable with the idea that the show is going to be different to the books, and that it could be a very good thing.

I like being able to watch scenes and episodes and, despite knowing the story, actually not know what the reactions and motivations of characters are going to be.

I've seen a lot of unhappiness about making Joffrey responsible for the murder of Robert's bastards, that they're softening Cersei, but I really like what they're doing. Because it feels like they're going for a new slant on the Cersei/Joffrey relationship. That perhaps she is at the mercy of his whims just as much as Sansa or any of his knights are. And it kind of makes sense, considering the ageing of his character for the series. A 13 year old Joffrey would be far more biddable, even in his malevolence, but a 16 or 17 year old? Yeah, much harder to control, and harder to predict.

It feels like Cersei is walking a knife edge with him, and I like that. I want to see how they have her react to other things he's going to do (either things from the books or new scenes written for the show), because rather than uniformly defend him, like she did in the books, I think there's going to be much more ambivalence.

Edited by Danny Franks, Apr 9, 2012 @ 4:29 PM.

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#23

Canmander

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 8:31 PM

Is it just me, or did Lena Headey's voice sound different last season? I just noticed it this episode; but to me, it all of a sudden sounds higher and softer (?) somehow. My memory of last season (and from a few clips I re-watched) had her delivering her lines in a lower, breathier/throatier murmur beforeómaybe just less murmuring now that she's Queen Regent?? it was really distracting to me in all of her scenes yesterday!
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#24

scarlett45

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 10:15 PM

I always thought Lena looks better this season because she isn't pregnant. Often pregnancy can do odd things to a woman's appearance (bloated face, the "mask" etc).
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#25

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 1:59 AM

Is Lena wearing new contact lenses this season? I don't remember her eyes looking so light-colored or striking last season.


I haven't noticed this in particular, but they've really increased the color saturation this season, especially compared to the early pilot. It's almost technicolor levels of lushness. So that's probably what you're noticing.

I really love the new look, it's just gorgeous vibrant and really brings out the beauty of king's landing and the colors of all the different locales.

About Cersei - I'm really digging what they're doing with her. "Evil Mama Bears" is not exactly a widely explored character type on TV these days, and she makes such an interesting contrast with some of the other female characters, especially Catelyn.
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#26

kieran555

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 4:56 AM

Cersei needs to get a grip. I know a lot is going on, but she's very frazzled right now, and very emotional. I understand why, but if she's so easily reduced to tears, playing the Game will be harder.
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#27

Constantinople

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 9:49 AM

One problem, among many, for Cersei is that she's never had to struggle or fight for much of anything. Almost everything has been handed to her because of who she is, not what she's done.

Consequently, she doesn't handle adversity well, and she's never had to persuade people to do much (just order them as when she ordered her guard to cut Littlefinger's throat). Her marriage to Robert was the one challenge she's faced before now, and she gave-up almost immediately and failed pretty miserably. Robert deserves his share of blame, but Cersei isn't exactly in the same class as Daenerys. If things don't go her way immediately, Cersei gives-up or starts to crumble.

She reminds me of those star athletes who shone in college by raw ability alone, but couldn't hack it in the pros when they actually had to work hard.

Not to mention she makes terrible choices (Jaime), and then doesn't even have the grace to live-up to her rationalization (belonging together because they were in the same womb toether, blah, blah, blah. Odd then that she shacked-up with Lancel almost immediately once Jaime was gone).

ETA: I hope her garden is weed free. If the war starts to put a crimp in even the Lannister's resources, perhaps she could endorse Weed-Be-Gon.

Edited by Constantinople, Apr 19, 2012 @ 9:59 AM.

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#28

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Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 6:23 PM

One problem, among many, for Cersei is that she's never had to struggle or fight for much of anything. Almost everything has been handed to her because of who she is, not what she's done.


I always think the exact opposite about Cersei - she has been struggling and fighting her whole life, so that's what she's good at. She's at her strongest when she's backed into a corner. The problem comes when she has power, and then has no idea what to do with it. I mean, she did pretty bloody well to put herself in the position of queen regent - the issue was all the mistakes she started to make once she was in that position. Which is fair enough - she's always wanted power but as a woman she has never been prepared for it; she wants to play the game but nobody has ever taught her how. She and Jaime are too rash and selfish to make good kings; they are warriors, not rulers, at their best on the battlefield, not in a council meeting. But unlike her brother, she doesn't have the option to pick up a sword, so she'll wield power with a crown, however clumsily.

Her marriage to Robert was the one challenge she's faced before now, and she gave-up almost immediately and failed pretty miserably. Robert deserves his share of blame, but Cersei isn't exactly in the same class as Daenerys. If things don't go her way immediately, Cersei gives-up or starts to crumble.


There are lots of interesting parallels and differences between Cersei and Dany's marriages, but I'm not sure it's fair to call what Cersei did giving up. If anything, the problem was that she wouldn't give up - wouldn't give an inch, ever, for any reason, and so turned an awkward relationship into actual loathing. Dany was unhappy to begin with, but pragmatic and kind-hearted, and willing to compromise and make the best of a bad situation, which worked out well for her. She might have been unhappy, but her unhappiness never turned to bitterness and hatred. And I'm pretty sure her wedding night with Drogo was as bad as Cersei's with Robert - she just shrugged it off and moved on, while Cersei made a mental note re: vengeance.
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#29

emjay1116

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Posted Apr 20, 2012 @ 8:11 PM

I don't think Cersei has been struggling or fighting. When things don't go the way she wants, she just lashes out, usually at whoever happens to be handy not at the person responsible.
I mean compare her to Arya, Sansa, or Dany. On any given day, the Starks have to struggle with much worse than she can imagine. And they're both fighting tooth and nail to survive. And Dany fought to make the best of a situation that was a whole lot worse than Cersei's arranged, political marriage, and to save the Lamb women from being raped, and to keep her khalasar alive in the Red Waste.
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#30

agora

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Posted Apr 21, 2012 @ 2:21 AM

I don't think Cersei has been struggling or fighting. When things don't go the way she wants, she just lashes out, usually at whoever happens to be handy not at the person responsible.

I think her own emotions take the best of her, for example, there's no better advisor than Tyrion but she doesn't listen because she despises him, there's no bigger monster than her son IMO but she couldn't care less because its her baby and so on.

In a weird way, I think Cercei is her own worst enemy.

Edited by agora, Apr 21, 2012 @ 2:22 AM.

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