397 replies to this topic

[TWoP Gadget]

This thread is exactly what the name suggests; it's a thread to talk about season 2 as a whole. Not individual episodes (they have their own thread) or characters (ditto) or actors (ditto).

[Sassafrastic]

After reading a little criticism about Glee being in the "comedy" category for the Emmys and about the episodes submitted for writing ("The Substitute", "Silly Love Songs", "Born This Way") I'm wondering what other people think was the funniest overall episode of the season. Not just the writing, but the whole package.

For me, it's "Blame It On The Alcohol". I have extreme love/hate with it because I dislike everything related to Rachel/Kurt/Blaine after the moment where Blaine wakes up in Kurt's bed, but I find the rest of the episode so entertaining. Every moment about the Rachel Berry Trainwreck Extravaganza and the lead-up to it, the staging and performances of "Don't You Want Me", "Blame It", "Tik Tok" (okay the vomit is gross but I love "Please drink responsibly"), Figgins's dancing to "Ke dollar sign ha" and the yogurt coupons, Drunk Will grading papers and the voicemail, the kids being hungover at school (with Artie 'stumbling' around the hallway in the start of the song), Rachel's vest comment and hitting on Mike...

Sure, there are moments that don't work for me and I would never say it's objectively "the best" episode, but I find it pretty darn amusing. I'm one of those people who prefers Glee to be satirical, cracky, and light-hearted, so I hope to see more like this in the future. (Without making bisexuality/questioning sexuality into a joke too, of course.) I also think it's a good example of how well truly ensemble interactions and comedy can work with this cast, and so I hope they do more of it next season.

Any other major hits or misses of Season 2 in comedic terms, or reflections on the directions of the tone?

Edited by Sassafrastic, Jun 11, 2011 @ 11:43 AM.

[Kayboogie]

I'm wondering what other people think was the funniest overall episode of the season. Not just the writing, but the whole package.

Oh I'm in complete agreement, though I despise the Rachel/Kurt/Blaine triangle, Blame It is hilarious. It's one of the few episodes from this season that I watch as a whole everytime. One of the few where Schue makes me laugh his "hellooooo pretty lady" cracks me up every time. Sue is used in perfectly small doses and the party scene is hilarious.

What's everyone's least favorite episodes of the season? Mine are Grilled Cheesus and The Substitute.

With Grilled Cheesus, I've found that when Glee tries to be heavy handed with certain issues, they do no one any favors. I don't think anyone came out looking good in the religious debate (most people give Kurt too much credit, he was being a brat about religion before he found out about Burt's heart attack. He was being a brat before the heart attack period.) I think it would have worked out better if the two had been separate episodes. But putting them together made everyone except Burt look like a jerk. And I'm sure if he hadn't been in a coma, Burt would have been a jerk too. I just watch for I Wanna Hold Your Hand, then on to the next one.

The Substitute...I just can't. Screw you Glee. That's all i can think when I watch that episode. Gwyneth had too many songs, and the tots thing was offensive. Kurt was being a shitty friend all around and never really got called out for it, at no point did Mercedes point out that Kurt was substituting Blaine for a boyfriend, so pot calling the kettle black. And on top of being insulting to overweight people (Substituting food with love? Screw you, writers), they threw in that offensive "Precious" joke at the end. And the bipolar joke. Just no. Does anyone like that episode?

[subdrone]

Nevermind. I take it back.

Edited by subdrone, Jun 11, 2011 @ 6:03 PM.

[hawkjs]

As a whole, the thing that Season 2 was missing (just want to note that I still really enjoyed season 2) in comparison to Season 1 was group numbers that packed an emotional punch. Performances like One of Us were overshadowed by the "preachy-ness" of the episode and Sing was a little anti-climatic in an episode full of Bieber. Dog Days and Don't Stop were probably the closest we had to numbers like Proud Mary, True Colors, Keep Holding On and Somebody to Love.

It seems as though it was more a season of solos. Part of the reason for that I believe is because more characters were taken into the limelight, such as Santana, Brittany and the new addition of Sam, who replaced the basically speechless Matt. Kurt's transfer also didn't help the case because while I loved the Warbler's numbers, they did steal a substantial amount of potential group numbers away from ND.

I guess I just feel that Season 2 had it's fair share of fun moments, but it was lacking those feel-good numbers that had a real impact on what was going on with the plot.

That being said, I know many on here were disappointed with the plot of Season 2 and the lack of continuity, but I really wasn't bothered by it too much because I just take crazy, over the top Glee World for what it is, regardless if it's unrealistic. My only real gripe is how they rushed the build up to Nationals. While episodes like Britney/Britney were hilarious and could have stayed in the season, they should have had more plot development so that the latter episodes didn't have to rush to do it. The same could be said for episodes like Comeback and A Night of Neglect. I'm wondering if the major theme of the season was supposed to be that relationship drama can really stray you away from your goals and being yourself? What does everyone else thing the theme of Season 2 was?

Overall:

Things I Really Liked:

- The increased Santana/Brittany screen time. I think they both really stepped up to the plate to be the breakout stars this season
- The addition of Blaine & Coach Beiste
- Kurt maturing from prissy bitch Kurt to a man who openly talks about his feelings and respects people regardless if he doesn't like them. Also, loved his new friendship with Rachel
- Mike Chang dancing
- Karofsky becoming a more layered character
- Rachel trying to find a balance by the end of the season of when to be annoying, conceited star, and when not to be.
- I think they started off well with the addition of Sam but somewhere got lost along the way with all of the relationship crap.
- More people were given the chance to "shine" besides Rachel and Kurt
- Everything Burt



Things I Didn't Like:

- All of the Rachel/Finn/Quinn nonsense
- Kurt dominating the first half of the season
- Lack of Mercedes/Tina plot
- The lack of feel good group numbers relevant to the plot
- Too many "themed" episodes
- The original songs took away the emotional impact of the competition episodes
- Finn/Will's character assassination
- Sue during the second half of the season besides Funeral


Favorite Episodes: Duets, Silly Love Songs, Blame it on the Alcohol, Original Song, Born This Way, Prom Queen, parts of Britney/Brittany and the dramatic acting in Funeral.

Least Favorite Episode: Toss up between Night of Neglect and The Rocky Horror Show (a little bias because I'm not a fan of the actual Rocky Horror Show)

Edited by hawkjs, Jun 11, 2011 @ 2:25 PM.

[Colonel Green]

I'm wondering what other people think was the funniest overall episode of the season. Not just the writing, but the whole package.

I would agree that Blame It On The Alcohol earns that distinction.

As to the season overall, I would say that on an episode-by-episode basis, I don't think the difference in entertainment value is that noticeable compared to season one. The biggest problem is the much more fragmented feel of much of the second season compared to the first; the second half added more ongoing plotlines, even if some of them (such as Finn/Quinn 2.0) were a little excruciating (but then, that was the case in the first season as well).

Musically, the group numbers were a lot fewer and generally not at the same level; however, I think the solos and duets for most characters tended to be better.

Characterwise:

Winners:

1. Santana - hey, remember when she was a minor part of the show? (it should be fairly easy, since that remained the case for at least half of this year) For about the first two thirds of season two she was an expanded comic presence who always seemed to have dramatic possibilities frustratingly just out of reach, but these exploded onto the screen in the last third and gave her what was arguably the most coherent character growth of the whole season.

2. Brittany - of the three characters on this list who were fairly minor presences last year, Brittany's role on the show expanded the most in the first half of the year. Some of this was problematic because I think the writers struggled with how to deal with her personality in the context of an expanded part on the show, toward the middle of the season pushing her way too far into the realm of the obviously mentally handicapped; and the relationship with Artie just never worked (the only time she ever asserted herself with him was when they broke up). However, she rebounded toward the end, between the Santana thing which I found far, far better-written, and an array of amusing side-interests that found the old balance of clueless and kooky without being outright moronic.

3. Kurt - As the only character with a substantive season-long arc, I considered him for the #1 spot, but I decided that Kurt made less of a jump this year than the two above characters, since in season one he already occupied a fairly prominent spot. All the same, this was the Season of Kurt in so many respects, and, while I found many aspects of his plot to be a bit problematic, it's virtually impossible not to consider him a big winner. His actor isn't a major Emmy contender for nothing.

4. Mike - last year he had only three lines, total; despite remaining a minor presence, he's now an entrenched and considerably enlarged one.

5. Blaine, Sam, Lauren - new (or, in Lauren's case, might-as-well-be-new) characters who all seem to have managed respectable niches on the show.

Losers:

1. Will, Rachel, Finn - I've grouped these three together because I think they're largely in the same spot: the original three leads, who largely did not lack for screentime this year, but instead existed largely in a developmental void. They all had some fun stuff here and there, but their characters really didn't go anywhere, something that's exemplified by Rachel and Finn spending the season two finale more or less rerunning the plot of the season one finale. The only significant developments for the latter two characters really concerned their relationships with Kurt (Rachel moreso than Finn).

2. Puck - in terms of actual relevance, he had probably the biggest comedown. It's hard to recall, but he was a major player in last year's stories. The first half of season two made him seem utterly irrelevant, and while the second half represented a comeback of sorts, he still remained thoroughly on the sidelines of the main plot.

3. Tina - not that there was much doubt prior to this season, but I think this year decidedly put to rest any question of her being more than furniture.

[Sassafrastic]

What's everyone's least favorite episodes of the season?

This is all JMHO, but the episodes that either really get under my skin and/or that I won't rewatch anything from, INPO:

- Super Bowl: I have issues with the entire Karofsky storyline and I just didn't appreciate the show trying to make me connect with the character at all. Especially not watching his "struggle" while Kurt was stuck in the stands having been terrorized and chased away. Plus I don't enjoy the football/cheerleading/popularity storylines in general and felt like they were just recycling stuff there. The Sue/cannon stuff was just ridiculous. The Kurt + Blaine segment was the only enjoyable part to me and I don't like that they cut the part of the episode that would have made it actually make sense in favor of everything else.

- "Grilled Cheesus": I don't care for most of the Big Drama on the show. Not religious myself but I found the stabs at "dealing with religion" to be off-putting. I adore Kurt and Chris is an excellent actor but the whole Burt storyline just from a writing perspective felt emotionally manipulative to me. None of the song performances connected with me. There was just nothing engaging about it to me and enough things that were bothersome tonally that I've never re-watched.

- "Britney/Brittany" was just not entertaining to me. Not a big fan of either the artist or the character. Artie, Wemma, Finchel stuff...annoying snooze-fests. Jacob stuff: over the line.

- "Furt": "Glee: SVU" with Karofsky, hateitsomuch. Sue stuff was a total low point. Again, I'm a Kurt fan, but I didn't really like how they handled his plot generally here or the stuff with Finn. I grew tired of watching Finn re-learn his lessons about Kurt in S1 and I think that both Finn's speech and the song choice (can we please fix pronouns or go gender neutral in the future!) were not really the right steps in the context.

- Christmas: (Except "Baby, It's Cold Outside" which is my favorite performance of the year) Hated the whole Artie/Brittany storyline. Finchel stuff was annoying. Was not amused by the Sue thing. A lot of the episode was so saccharine it made my teeth hurt.

Edited by Sassafrastic, Jun 11, 2011 @ 1:57 PM.

[RedRumVines]

I'm starting with complaints but after writing this whole thing, I realized that I actually did enjoy this season. Lol.

Anyway, first gripe - the writers' Shiny New Toy Syndrome. The audience respond to things that were wonderful precisely because they came in small doses but then they take it too far. Brittany and her dumb one liners led to the Santa and Magic Comb debacles; Lauren Zizes went from hilariously snarky to downright mean; Sue became a caricature; Gwyneth Paltrow was omnipresent; and the Warblers had seven numbers in six episodes after coming back from Christmas break.

There were characters that were thoroughly assassinated for the sake of random weekly plots - top of my list would be Will, Finn, Rachel, Emma, Puck, Artie and Tots. Shoes will be thrown if Rachel sings a pining love song again come September. Heavy shoes.

They had some very good setups that failed to play out to their potential. Charice was too weak an actress to play Rachel's rival so that was dropped. Cheyenne Jackson was a riot in the few scenes he appeared in, but I wasn't invested because there was no build up. The more menacing, sexually-charged actions of Karofsky were never referenced again. I personally loved the idea of Kurt at Dalton when it came about because it was the perfect opportunity to see him benefit from making friends with other boys and juxtaposing the differences between the two clubs. There was a lot he could have taught them and learned from them in turn, but we had none of that. Just songs.

The League of Doom petered off. Quinn focusing on herself; what happened to that? Emma apparently got married and separated at some point. Beiste was severely underused. I'm most disappointed about New York because I was looking forward to it so much. The kids in the big city, cooped up in a room together - but no. We had Will deciding to go to Broadway for a grand total of 5 minutes, more Finn and Rachel drama, the kids writing songs at the last minute for no apparent reason and everything else squashed into the final few minutes. What the effing eff.

Then there was a lack of focus on competitions. So yeah, in the final episode, Brittany tells us that this year was more about family and acceptance and I can kinda see that if I squint real hard backwards, but it would have been helpful if there was a hint of that from the beginning, thank you very much. I just could not be invested in much this season because you never knew what the writers would actually remember the following week. There were two storylines the writers seemed to care about - the Kurt/Blaine relationship and Santana's coming out journey. Everything else appeared and disappeared whenever suitable, or was tiresome (coughFinnandRachelcough).

This is probably an unpopular choice but my least favourite episode was Furt. Now I love Kurt, but there was way too much sanctification and victimization in this episode. Finn singing to him rubbed me the wrong way, and someone else online put it best - it was very Princess Diana and the Untouchables. Theatricality and the red rubber dress had already gotten it right. Kurt's snooty and scrappy and prickly and that's why I love him. He lost a lot of agency this season and Furt was the beginning for me. I get how it was understandable because of Duets and Karofsky, but they took it too far here. Also, I love Finn just as much and it pains me that he was all but forgotten in the wedding speeches. Yes, Kurt was going through a rough time but the whole thing was overkill in my books.

The most boring for me were Britney/Brittany, The Rocky Horror Glee Show, Comeback, New York, Night of Neglect and Funeral. The first four suffered from a lack of plot and coherency while the latter two had my least favourite form of singing - one person after another on stage with the song having no relevance to the story.

All the same, the season wasn't that bad. It's Glee. What is continuity indeed. The standout for me this season was Santana. Naya Rivera has been a revelation, and the writers have some how managed to use her just right. Santana has been given just as much care lately as Kurt and hopefully the writers will realize that complains about them caring too much about Kurt aren't about wanting him treated like the others - it's about wanting the others treated like him. I also like where they left us with Sam and Brittany. I think the writers have managed to write to their actors' strengths and they're really working for me now.

My favourite episodes were Silly Love Songs and Prom Queen. The former managed to utilize almost all of the kid cast, made Blaine more human and was the beginning of Queen Santana's reign. The latter was plotted well and utterly heartbreaking. The episodes with the best music for me were Born This Way, Rumours and Prom Queen. Even with the complains I had above, on the whole I really did enjoy all the other episodes we had. I might have wanted more of certain things, but I did like what I got all the same.

Season 2 had its occasional flashes of brilliance and there were scenes that really stood out to me. Kurt singing I Want to Hold Your Hand was especially poignant because of the flashbacks, the way he held himself together and the other kids' reactions. Karofsky kissing Kurt was one of the most powerful scenes this season and Max Adler really stepped up with his acting. Blaine's entire introduction from the staircase right up to Teenage Dream was so joyously magical. I don't know why this struck me so much but I loved Tina's reaction to Artie getting the Rewalk. Puck's speech in the Superbowl episode - I was so proud of Mark and his dramatic acting. Hee.

Will marking papers and drunk dialing. Santana confessing her feelings to Brittany. The sex talk between Burt and Kurt - I'm going to write it down and recite it to my children one day. Quinn telling Rachel off in Special Education. Blaine's starry eyes during Blackbird. The kiss between Blaine and Kurt (squee!), both actors caught the moment well. The entire nose job subplot - Lea brings out the best in Dianna's acting. My favourite acting this season has to go to Jayma Mays in Born This Way - both during her talk with Will where he cleaned her grapes and her session with the psychiatrist. Kurt breaking down after being named Prom Queen; the ugly crying gutted me. Finn breaking up with Quinn was quietly painful. I also really like the Unholy Trinity in New York. Lastly, the entire Rachel-Kurt sequence in New York. It was like time stood still. Those two have chemistry like woah.

Wow, so this was really long. I'm also suddenly trying to remember which episode Fondue for Two was in.

Edited by RedRumVines, Aug 8, 2011 @ 10:36 AM.

[Colonel Green]

What's everyone's least favorite episodes of the season?

Unlike most of the people here, I like Britney/Brittany and The Rocky Horror Glee Show; the former is mostly fluff, sure, but I'm fine with that occasionally.

Least favourite episodes:

- Grilled Cheesus: This episode annoys me because probably my least favourite Glee is when they tackle serious issues but do so in ways that are jarringly illogical and/or unsuccessful (I'd much rather watch unambitious fluff). In this case, Burt's heart attack somehow prompts a theological seminar instead of everybody just trying to help Kurt (and Kurt, meanwhile, acts like a jerk about it too; one parody I read summed up his attitude as "Look at these religious assholes. I bet they're intolerant of other peoples' beliefs!"), and having set up this theology discussion, it becomes obvious the writers have nothing in particular to say on the subject, and the episode ends with "people should believe...whatever it is they believe, I guess."

- Never Been Kissed: Marks the beginning of the gay bullying storyline, which was cursed almost from the beginning to be dramatically illogical; and looking back at it from the vantage of the season's end, the writers uncorked a bunch of genies (the extent of Karofsky's behaviour) that they then furiously tried to coax back into the bottle in the resolution of the plot. This episode also has the Artie/Brittany/Puck/Santana plot, which I have awarded the distinction of the single-worst plot this show has ever had, from the complete botch of the message they seem to want to convey to the ludicrously out-of-character Santana to the single laziest storytelling in the show's history when the show uses the voiceover guy to pretend that Artie decided he wanted Brittany back in some previous episode. No, voiceover guy, you just made that up.

- Night of Neglect: This episode annoys me because it's supposedly designed to highlight neglected characters, but it really doesn't in any meaningful way. This is most pronounced with Tina, who gets five lines and doesn't get to do her song (contrasted with two guest stars who get full performances). It also muddles its message by centring this neglected concept on the Brainiacs, who consist of 50% characters who don't qualify as neglected by any stretch of the imagination (Brittany and Artie).

[Darcy]

For me, it's "Blame It On The Alcohol". I have extreme love/hate with it because I dislike everything related to Rachel/Kurt/Blaine after the moment where Blaine wakes up in Kurt's bed, but I find the rest of the episode so entertaining.

I know my opinion is in the minority but I was fine with the Rachel/Blaine/Kurt scenes in that episode. I thought the scene that happened after Blaine wakes up in Kurt's bed, where Rachel was describing her date with Blaine to Kurt was one of the funniest scenes of the year (finally Chris Colfer was given some funny material throughout the conversation).

However, this episode is not one of my top favorites. My favorite would be Original Song - I loved every single scene and song in this episode (with the exception of Sue punching the Lt. Gov's wife). Other top favorites in order are: Duets, Silly Love Songs, Prom Queen, Born This Way and to a slightly lesser extent Never Been Kissed (to be honest I only remember the Kurt/Blaine/Warbler stuff which I loved and also the Coach Bieste fantasies). I also liked Grilled Cheesus more than many seem to have - the same can be said for Furt too (except for Sue marrying herself). So many episodes were ruined by the ridiculous crap they wrote for Sue that not even Jane Lynch could make it palpable.

I also enjoyed The Substitute, Sexy, Rumours, and Blame It On the Alcohol, Special Education and to a lesser extent New York.

I have mixed feelings (either the plot was okay but poor song choice or vice versa or a mixture of both) about Audition, Rocky Horror and a Very Glee Christmas.

I think the worst episode was the Sue Sylvester Shuffle episode - what a poor episode to pick to choose after the Superbowl when you have a potential of a huge audience. Again it was Sue and her ridiculousness that ruined it for me but the whole thing was just way too OTT. Also was not much of a fan of Brittany/Britney (don't like her music much), Comeback, Night of Neglect, Funeral (didn't like a lot of the songs and the plots were kind of boring).

Edited by Darcy, Jun 11, 2011 @ 2:44 PM.

[chilindrina]

Anyway, first gripe - the writers' Shiny New Toy Syndrome. The audience respond to things that were wonderful precisely because they came in small doses but then they take it too far. Brittany and her dumb one liners led to the Santa and Magic Comb debacles; Lauren Zizes went from hilariously snarky to downright mean; Sue became a caricature; Gwyneth Paltrow was omnipresent; and the Warblers had seven numbers in six episodes after coming back from Christmas break.

My thoughts exactly. This to me is what dragged down the season. At least with Brittany they managed to find a good balance of goofy and competent in the season. And I just pray the Warblers never perform again. The whole Dalton Academy world just did not work for me.

Overall I hated that season two focused too much on the guest stars when some of that time could have been used for the forgotten suspects (Tina, Mike, Mercedes, etc). And there was just way too much relationship drama.

There were some great moments in the season, and I enjoyed a lot of it, but as a whole, it was just so uneven.

But this pretty much sums up my feeling of Season Two.

[Scorch]

I've almost completely forgotten the first half of season 2, I stopped watching after the christmas episode because I just didn't enjoy the show anymore.

But then a friend alerted me to the alcohol episode and from then on for some inexplicable reason I've loved the show again. Well, except Funeral. That was the worst Glee episode I've ever seen. Or half-seen, anyway.

I hope they continue with whatever it was that made me love the show again in S3.

[Girl86star]

Jumping into this thread with my mixed emotions over the season… there was some good, some bad, and some ugly.

Most realistic and totally awesome moment of an otherwise horrible episode: the Bat Mitzvah sideswipe in “The Comeback.” My seventh-grade self would personally like to think Glee for the done-at-home curling iron hair styles, the shapeless Delia’s dresses, and the awful balloon arch. C’mon, really what is a Bat Mitzvah without a horrible balloon arch?

Best Musical Number: Mike and Tina’s “Sing”. As I stated in the Media thread a few days ago, this is literally my favorite musical number in the two seasons of Glee. To me the sweet and gentle, yet totally entertaining aspects of this number are what this show is all about. Love it! I also really like “Dog Days are Over.”

Worst Musical Number: “My Funny Valentine.” Although I hated the episode overall (see below) that performance really should have just been edited out. And it’s such a shame because Jenna has a nice voice.

Worst episode: “Prom Queen.” I was hiding from spoilers at every turn for that? Yuck. What a waste of energy. Second being a three-way tie between “Silly Love Songs,” “Sexy,” and “Night of Neglect.”

Best Episode: “Duets.” A great episode all around that progressed several stories for the season. “Never Been Kissed” is also up there for having two good stories and being beautifully directed. I thoroughly enjoyed the Rocky Horror episode as well (but I’m biased since I love the original musical as well) and “Blame it on the Alcohol” – the funniest episode of the season. Drunk Gleesters. Hee. Oh, and “Rumours” was top notch. I’m a huge Fleetwood Mac fan and I thought the show did them justice. Plus, Finn had a really cool camera and they discussed school newspapers and that brought back a lot of memories for me.

Biggest Surprise That I Actually Enjoyed It: The Super Bowl Episode. Maybe it’s because it reminded me a lot of Little Giants and I loved that movie, but I thought this episode was very enjoyable (and I am not a Jacko fan). And I though Finn and the football team doing “She’s Not There” by The Zombies was great.

Best Guest Star: The Stamos. I really loved having on Meat Loaf and Barry Bostwick in “Rocky Horror” too. Meat Loaf is literally the best concert I have ever been to and I love his music and I have been a fan of Bostwick’s acting for years, so personally that was a treat for me. Oh, and Katie Couric was awesome too. SO funny!!

Worst Guest Star: Gwyneth. But I’m biased because I’ve never been a fan. And I was disappointed they didn’t do more with Kathy Griffin and Carole Burnett.

Moment That I Hoped Would Happen and Actually Did: Mike and Finn’s pusdo-dance lesson to “I Gotta Be Me.” It wasn’t to “Let’s Hear it for the Boys,” but I think Rusty and Ariel would have enjoyed that.

Moment That I Hoped Wouldn’t Happen, but Actually Did: Finn and Rachel’s reunion – in song – at the Nationals performance. I am genuinely a fan of Finn and Rachel and feel that they have the best chemistry of any couple on the entire show, but them getting together like they did was the same as last year. It didn’t progress the story. Fiction needs conflict and resolution. Finn was a douche for the second half of the season and redeemed himself in an episode and a half. What’s the point in that? Something needed to happen first – a fight, a tragedy, a temptation – to get them back together. The date was cute, but not enough for me. The only good that might come out of this is that it will cause Finn to look at his future and how he wants to be leader. And with there being a new writer… that might actually happen!

Something they brought back that I was very happy about: The Boys vs. Girls Mash-Ups. Although the boys totally dominated again this year, I’m glad they brought it back for a second go around since overall “Vitamin D” was one of the best episodes of season one. And I hope they do them again this year since they are enjoyable performances.

Still Unsure About: the Blaine/Kurt/Karofsky storyline. I liked Kurt a little more when he was a snotty gay, with funny lines and bitched at Rachel. And even though I like that Kurt and Rachel are friends now, I miss his witty side. As far as Blaine and Karofsky are concerned, I like Karofsky’s part of the story – the conflict with him struggling with his sexuality is interesting – but I don’t care for Blaine. I really wish I could say that I do, but I don’t. He has this holier-than-now aspect to him that turns me off and I really don’t care for Darren’s voice or his acting. The only scene I like him in was he and Rachel made out and sang “Don’t You Want Me,” but that was mainly due to the fact that I really love that song. I do think that Max Adler has ton to offer and I can’t wait for more from him. And since he is the only cast member who actually was in show choir in high school – next season I’m hoping for him in a musical number (with the Bully Whips outfits, of course!).

With this I would like to add that I still feel that the Hipsters were way better than the Warblers. I kinda hate the Warblers as a whole. It’s cool that the actual choir is getting publicity from this, but the fictitious version sucks.

I’m Very Sad That They Destroyed: Will, Sue, and Terri. All three of these people were at one point interesting characters played by exceptionally talented actors. Why did that stop?

Not Enough Of: Principal Figgins, Emma, Mike Chang, Carole, Burt, and Coach Beiste. Although he is a tertiary character, I feel there will never been enough Iqbal on this show. He is often times one of the funniest people on the program. I surprisingly enjoyed the addition of Coach Beiste and there could have been a basketball season this year as well that she participated in (even though I miss Ken). Jayma is to me the best overall actress on this show. Every scene she’s in I always feel that she steals it. I wish her marriage to The Stamos was explored more. As well as Burt and Carole’s marriage and the merging of their two families, too. Oh, and there will never be enough Mike Chang until he’s a character with his own story arch (beyond being a stagnant character’s boyfriend).

I Can’t Even Discuss: Finn. I just shake my head in disgust in what they did there.

The Original Songs?: Shrugs. They aren’t bad performances, but they’re just not as good as the moving rock classics that already evoke emotions in people and still have connections to the story. I still get chills thinking about “Somebody to Love.” I can’t say that about “Light Up the World,” ya know?

Finally, What I Miss the Most from Last Season (especially the first 13): The Satire and the Snark. At one point this show had a character that separated the glee club by minorities and then tried to pin them against each other. And this show had competition judges who complained about deaf kids “honking.” What happened to that show?

Edited by Girl86star, Jun 11, 2011 @ 8:55 PM.

[123what]

I know my opinion is in the minority but I was fine with the Rachel/Blaine/Kurt scenes in that episode. I thought the scene that happened after Blaine wakes up in Kurt's bed, where Rachel was describing her date with Blaine to Kurt was one of the funniest scenes of the year (finally Chris Colfer was given some funny material throughout the conversation).

I thought so too. Kurt in a way was challenging her, I believe in a way he wanted/need to know for sure himself. Not taking Rachel off the hook but he "egged" her on a bit so it lessen the other parts for me. I also think Kurt and his bi sexual comment was more a defense mechanism cause he finally found someone he thought may be a viable option and now they both weren't sure if the a was the case.

But once again Lea and Chris did a great job with the basement scene and yes Kurt got to be his snarky self.

Best:
Blame it on the Alcohol -one of the funniest and they could have stayed at the party longer. As said above the Kurt/Blaine stuff was fine with me.

Duets - great songs and nice balance of cast, the relationship stuff was even cute, the best Finn/Rachel interaction, they were scheming with each others and actually seems like a cute couple for a minute.

Worse:
Christmas Episode - sorry the whole Santa thing was dumb and Sue jumped the shark. Not to mention the teacher throwing the shoe at them. If they were bad maybe but these kids can sing so it makes no sense.

Night of Neglect was meh, Gweneth and Charice were both unnecessary. The songs did nothing for me. I only really liked the Rachel/ Mercedes interaction and Sandy is always ok in my book.

Even in the worse of episode I still have at least a few thing that keep me sticking around but the two I mention had little to like IMO.

Edited by 123what, Jun 11, 2011 @ 9:07 PM.

[Camera One]

Season 2 was different from Season 1 but it wasn't really better or worse. Both seasons had major faults which made me like the show but not love it. I'm still not tired of the show but some aspects are beginning to feel old. In particular, Sue, and also the whole Finn/Rachel/Quinn situation which was rehashed this year. I've never been convinced about the outcast nature of the Glee club, and it's time to stop with this completely inconsistent plot point.

Season 1 was definitely more cohesive with the Finn/Rachel/Quinn/Puck quadrangle with the pregnancy, Rachel's birth mother, and the Will/Emma/Terri triangle and the fake pregnancy. But I didn't really like any of those storylines that much, so reduces the rewatch value of the first season.

Season 2 felt very disjointed, but this did lead to some fun episodes and moments. I agree that Will, Finn, Rachel and Puck suffered this season with nothing much to work with, though I too was glad to see more of the supporting characters, though overall, they're all still quite cardboard.

By the end of the season, I was getting a little tired of the theme episodes too, and while the first episode from Gwyneth Paltrow was good, whenever they bring people back (eg. Jonathan Groff, Kristin Chenoweth, Gwyneth Paltrow, etc.), it just feels forced.

[Kayboogie]

I was rushing getting ready for work this morning, so I could comment in full. I think the second half of the season was better than the first. The first half set up a bunch of stories that were never touched on again. Rachel vs. Sunshine, for one. Artie/Mike/Tina for two. And third, why the fuck would they go through to trouble of marrying Burt and Carole if we a)were never going to see Carole again, and b)were never going to get anything storywise about how things were working out with the family blending. I was expecting a family scene in the Christmas episode, got nothing. The closest we came was Burt and Carole in the stands with Kurt and Blaine, and Blaine at the house before the Prom. It was nice that it appeared that Blaine was fitting in fine, but I would have liked to see that progression from him being the guy that woke up hungover in Kurt's bed, to the guy telling Burt to give Kurt the sex talk, to him basically being one of Burt's boys.

I don't even know where to begin with my disgust towards the Rachel/Quinn/Finn storyline. Last season, Finn was one of my favorite characters, second only to Kurt and Mercedes. This year, after the Superbowl, he was replaced with a cheating douche and I don't understand. And on top of that, I've never liked Quinn, but towards the end of last season, seeing her be friends with Mercedes (and as it appeared in Journey, Kurt), i was excited to see how she may have grown, The answer is not at all. Last season, she was saying how Men still get paid more than women. This season, she's "pretty smart for a girl". Are you serious, show?

I didn't mind Britney/Brittany at first, because I'm a huge Britney Spears fan, same with Rocky Horror. However, looking back, I wish they'd been used to progress the story and looking back, knowing they really mean nothing makes me not like them as much, if that makes sense.

Favorite episodes: Duets and Silly Love Songs for sure. They remind me of Power of Madonna in the way that both were able to fit several musical numbers in the episode and still managed to give a storyline to almost every character. It can be done and when Glee takes the time, it's done well.

As I mentioned, I quite enjoyed Blame It On The Alcohol, despite the triangle, and I also liked Sexy. The main issue I have with Blame It and Sexy is that we have two episodes where Kurt and Blaine had a disagreement, and it's never addressed, we just come to the next episode and everything's hunky dory, when the last time we saw them together, one had stormed out, or kicked the other out of his house. I would put Original Songs on my list, because the Kurt/Blaine stuff was so nicely done, and it introduced Trouty Mouth and Big Ass...Heart, but the Rachel/Quinn/Finn just really drags the episode down. I hate the original songs idea. Hate, hate hate. Other than the joke songs, none of the original songs have been good. I hope they've gotten that out of their system now.

I really enjoyed Prom Queen, but i feel like the end of the season was kind of anti-climatic. Maybe if NY had been a double episode, or something? I don't know. I honestly didn't care about Nationals. I didn't care about any of the competitions because we were told early on that Nationals was the end point, so Regionals and Sectionals meant nothing.

Kurt and Blaine are my new favorite thing in the world and I'm (niavely) excited for Mercedes and Sam, though I do ship Mercedes/Storyline more than anything.

[SNeaker]

In a season full of wrong, wrong, wrong, these are the few things I thought they got right:

1. The Kurt/Rachel friendship. This was easily the most rewarding and satisfying takeaway from the season. Rachel reaching out to an initially wary Kurt, a tentative friendship, and then the full blossoming of same where we now see how much they care for each other without losing the rivalry or snark -- just wonderful, all the way through.

2. Coach Beiste. A lovely character played by a lovely actress who was given just the right amount of screen time for a recurring character. Her friendship with Will was really well done and fun to watch, and I love how close she's become with the Glee Club, especially the boys -- I think it's great that they have this strong female mentor in their lives.

3. The Brittany/Artie relationship. This may seem an odd choice, and I'm not actually defending them as a couple -- I know it was not exactly a popular pairing. But what I'm talking about here is that I think they're an example of a well-done relationship that was given just the right amount of screen time and was allowed to play out in the background the rest of the time without the characters being lost in it. Brittany and Artie still had plenty to do during the course of their relationship that had nothing to do with each other. They also may be the one example of a healthy sexually active relationship among the kids. Whether or not you think it was a healthy relationship overall, they seem to have had a sex life that was mutually fulfilling, had emotional attachments, and where they discussed feelings when they were intimate. Artie is also the only secondary character who I think got just the right amount of attention and focus for his status and his level as an actor/singer.

4. Mike Chang. The character deserved his upgrade and was always a delight. I think he got the right amount of screen time and it was a treat to really see his dancing highlighted.

5. Less focus on the adults, more on the kids. A lot of Season 1 was bogged down with the Terri stuff, and while I feel for Jessalyn Gilsig, the character just doesn't really fit on the show. I thought she was used quite well in her few episodes this season, and at least got a fairly respectful ending.

6. Spreading out the singing among the kid cast. Must as I love Lea, and much has Cory has improved, I was one of many who complained about them dominating the First 13 too much. They started to spread the wealth in the Back 9, and I was happy to see even more of that during Season 2, even if I don't necessarily agree with the specific distribution.

7. Rachel has friends now! While most of the season there was way too much dumping on Rachel, I do think by the end of it they established that she has real genuine friendships now, especially with Kurt, Mercedes, Puck, and Sam, and that she is not going to be the club's punching bag anymore. At least I hope so. G-d.

They got a lot wrong this season, too much to list, but here are the things I think they got the most wrong:

1. Finn. Oh, where do I start? They turned a sweet, affable, and endearing character who may have stumbled from time to time but had a good heart into a self-involved douchebag who was never, ever called out on his bad behavior. I just can't, with this character. I used to care about him and now I hate his stupid face.

2. Quinn. This character has been dicked over so many times by the writers, I can't even keep track anymore.

3. The entire Kurt/Karofsy/bullying/Dalton arc -- FAIL. Too dark, too uneven, too much woobie victim Kurt, too quickly redeemed Karofsky, too much pointless Dalton/Warblers garbage splitting the show in two, too much suck suck suckage. This storyline started out interesting, took a turn for the creepy, went off the rails, and then attempted to take a flying leap back to interesting when it was already way too late.

4. Sue Sylvester. Do I even have to explain this one?

5. Too much focus on shippy melodrama, too little focus on plots for the Glee Club itself and its struggles. The competitions had no suspense or investment and seemed more like afterthoughts.

6. The music. Bye bye, epic, chill-inducing Season 1 group numbers, hello overly dancey things that look like messes, pointless Warbler numbers, and terrible, terrible original songs.

7. The character assassination of Rachel Berry. They took a bright, hilarious, driven, adorable, independent, unique character and turned her into a fragile, needy, insecure, pathetic mess of a thing with no self-respect. They completely went back on all of her "team player" development in Season 1, turning her into a caricature of her early Season 1 self, with the constant "Me me me, the solos are all for me!" crap. Rachel suffered the most from the lack of story for the club. In Season 1 she was able to be funny and driven in ways that didn't involve wanting to hog the solo spotlight all the time.

8. The Finn/Rachel relationship. From beginning to end, there was nothing likable, rootable, or redeemable about the way it played out. Boring, sexless, and toxic when they were together, a breakup that focused on the wrong things, a half-season of nonsensical triangle bullshit that was just blatant wheel spinning and made both characters look terrible, and a too quick and tremendously predictable and redundant reunion that once again focused on out of nowhere issues without hashing out their actual issues. I have nothing but disgust for everything to do with this storyline and pairing. The fact that they are trying to portray this unhealthy relationship as sweet and romantic just makes it even worse.

Oddly, since it seems to be rather unpopular, my favorite episode of the season seems to be the Superbowl episode, just based on number of viewings. I wouldn't say it's the best or most tightly written episode, and I too was troubled by the way Karofsky was presented, annoyed by the pointless Warblers number, and bored by Sue, but...it was the only episode all season that felt like it could belong in Season 1. Maybe it was the football stuff and the story about the tension between the jock world and the Glee world and the uneasy joining of the two that seemed so central to the show in the first season, but the tone of it felt just right. The episode was also the best showing for my favorites. Rachel had something to do that wasn't about Finn or grabbing solos, and she was just absolutely adorable; this was really the only episode all season where Rachel felt like the Rachel I'd come to love. Puck showed great growth as a character without losing his badassedness or acting like a doofus. And this, for me, was Finn's last hurrah as a sympathetic character. Finn at his best is a favorite of mine, and this was Season 1 leader Finn in all his glory. I'm also invested in the Finn/Puck and Puck/Rachel friendships, and this episode highlighted both.

The episodes that were a total wash for me were "Brittany/Britney," "Rocky Horror," the Christmas episode, "Comeback," "Sexy," "Original Song," "Funeral," and "New York." I have a serious hate-on for all of these episodes and find few redeeming qualities in any of them.

Edited by SNeaker, Jun 12, 2011 @ 7:14 AM.

[secludednights]

Looking at Season 2 is pretty depressing. There are attempts at story arcs, and some of them are interesting. But they're either dropped after a single episode, or dragged out until the writers realize they've reached the end of the season and rush to fix everything in 45 minutes.

Obviously the best example of the latter is the Rachel/Finn/Quinn love triangle. But

a) I can't even talk about that, it's so boring/rage-inducing, and

b) that arc didn't really start until the Superbowl episode.

Looking at the whole Season, the biggest storyline was the bullying arc, and it was actually set up quite nicely with Duets. The only problem? It started out as a story about Kurt's isolation because of the casual homophobia he's surrounded by, as well as the bullying from Karofsky and Azimio. Then it stopped being about anything but Karofsky and how insanely creepy he was. Then, when Kurt transferred to Dalton, the writers forgot about everything but making $$$$ from Warblers song sales- with some time dedicated to Kurt's crush on Blaine. And then it's a redemption arc for Karofsky, plus a coming out story for Santana. The arc ends with "Prom Queen". More systematic bullying for Kurt, and other than the presence of a boyfriend, it really doesn't show us anything new. I'm glad Kurt benefited so much from Dalton.

None of those elements are bad, necessarily. I don't think I could ever love the idea of Kurt chilling at another school for half a season, but other than that, all good ideas. But the writers didn't seem to know what they wanted to say, or what kind of characters they wanted Karofsky, Blaine, or Santana to be. Supporting players like Burt, Carole, Sue, and all of New Directions cared about the bullying issue for one entire episode. Two episodes, in the case of Burt. I suppose because Kurt's his son and all. Speaking of Kurt- he's the most prominent character in that story line, and he had no agency. Not when Glee was preaching about bullying, and not when it returned to its roots of high school romance. Kurt was at the mercy of Karofsky, then Burt, Carole, and the school board, then Blaine, and then Santana. This isn't a criticism of Kurt, but of the writing.

Ridiculous.

Edited by secludednights, Jun 12, 2011 @ 8:26 AM.

[Sassafrastic]

My personal extreme low and high points in S2 were the bullying storyline and its inadvertent production of Blaine and Klaine. To be clear, I think that Chris acted the hell out of everything he was given, but it doesn't mean I liked all of his material. This is all, of course, JMHO.

I think that if they wanted to tell a closeted jock story, they should have kept Karofsky's bullying on the level of Puck and Finn's and not directed at Kurt. If they wanted to deal with bullying of gay kids, they shouldn't have made the bully gay nor should they have made it totally OTT and creepy and someone we're supposed to somehow sympathize with. If they wanted to deal with bullying in general, the entire story and the characters involved should have been different. Given what they did, from my perspective:

- They took things way too far with Karofsky in both directions. It got so bad it's downright triggering. And then at the same time they apparently want us to forget about the sexual stuff and not only feel sympathetic for Karofsky when he has had no retribution, but also to watch him interact with Kurt.

- For me, taken in isolation, the Dalton arc provided some of the most refreshing and entertaining scenes on the show ever and the relationship between Kurt + Blaine was and is very compelling. On its own terms, despite all of the missteps, the Klaine relationship is what brought me into the fandom, they are the characters I am truly emotionally invested in, and I think Blaine was the best new thing in S2 on Glee.

- But the rest of Kurt's story did get lost there. I do believe that Kurt grew in significant ways and also 'healed' during the arc. Too much perhaps, as his naivete back at WMHS revealed. But they should have included more about Kurt's story outside of the budding relationship, as I have to rely mostly on Chris's acting for that. Had the bullying arc never started I would have been satisfied with the Dalton arc (had it existed).

- This was made clear by what I feel was the disastrous way they handled Kurt's transfer and Karofsky. As a viewer of the show, I wanted Kurt back at McKinley too (just to take Blaine with him), but not the way they did it. I was uncomfortable with everything about Karofsky's storyline and Kurt's interactions with him in the B6.

- I also agree with others that the question of Kurt's agency was mishandled throughout.

- As it stands, the only part of the bullying arc that I thought worked was the Prom Queen prank, at least with my interpretation that the prank was not on Karofsky. Showing Kurt's naivete and the insidiousness of homophobia throughout the entire culture and seeing Kurt (+ Blaine in his way) stand up was much more effective and touching IMHO.

- Also, once they basically reduced the memory of Karofsky's bullying to the shoves and the death threat (and not the sexual stalkery stuff), the incongruity between how that storyline and how other physical violence is dealt with on the show was grating to me.

So, I have major problems with almost everything about the bullying storyline but I'm grateful that it indirectly produced Klaine, Blaine, and a more mature Kurt, which have been my favorite part of the whole damn show. I'll see where they go in S3.

Edited by Sassafrastic, Jun 12, 2011 @ 8:33 AM.

[Cylelle]

3. The entire Kurt/Karofsy/bullying/Dalton arc -- FAIL. Too dark, too uneven, too much woobie victim Kurt, too quickly redeemed Karofsky, too much pointless Dalton/Warblers garbage splitting the show in two, too much suck suck suckage. This storyline started out interesting, took a turn for the creepy, went off the rails, and then attempted to take a flying leap back to interesting when it was already way too late.

Actually, I think the problem with this, and indeed a lot of the S2 storylines, was not that there was 'too much' but that there was 'not enough'. Nothing got as much follow-through as it needed, possibly because there were too many diverse strands running through the season that didn't come together sufficiently in the time constraints the writers were up against. But, in particular with Kurt, we needed to see more development in every part of the storyline. Unfortunately even before the first overtly bullying-themed episode aired, elements of the fandom were already decrying S2 as "The Kurt Hummel Hour" and insisting he get less screentime. And yet, even looking at the first eight episodes, how much of them was Kurt actually featured in - most of "Grilled Cheesus", a third of "Never Been Kissed" and half of "Furt" - that's less than half the episodes shown to that point getting devoted to the supposed main season story arc and considerably less than you'd think from all the fan hysteria going around. Problem is the arc needed more screentime, it needed more attention and detail and it needed for more of the other characters to get involved and stay involved.

Instead of having lots of focus on individuals and character-specific storylines that didn't tie into anything else, which made for a more disjointed season as a whole, they needed to focus everything in on the one concept for the season, which from early interviews with Ryan wasn't actually bullying, but acceptance. In a way, I think that that was what they were trying to do, but real-life events derailed them somewhat. I believe that the bullying part of the acceptance storyline wasn't meant to go so dark originally and they ended up writing themselves into a hole they struggled to get out of with the Dalton interlude. For the character who was supposed to be the central focus for the season, Kurt became completely side-lined to the, in my opinion, detriment of the show.

I think someone mentioned upthread about how Season 2 failed musically when it came to group numbers, but by contrast features some of the best solos and duets we've had to date. In a way, that is fairly symptomatic of the season. With the character focus expanding way beyond what we had in Season 1, their stories became more fragmented. It became less about the group and more about specific individuals or pairings whose stories did not impact the rest of the group except in passing. There were very few occasions where they pulled together and that, in the end, was the problem with their Nationals bid. They started the season as a united force able to go out and perform "Empire State of Mind" with a single purpose and ended the season as a disjointed bunch of individuals each reaching for their separate dreams.

Yet, despite the disappointments I feel there was still a lot of the season that stands up and stands up well. I'm looking forward to where they go in Season 3 and hope they can bring the group back together again. That, after all, is when they're at their best.

Edited by Cylelle, Jun 12, 2011 @ 12:45 PM.

[natyxg]

The problem with season two I think I can sum it up with: They went too wide and not deep enough. Too many storylines, too many characters, too many different directions. Instead of choosing who the mains of the season would be and giving them a story arc (or divide the season in two, since a 22 episode story arc is really a lot, and having the focus shift midway) that had direction, the right pacing and culminated in an interesting climax that ended with real character growth, they were just making it up as they went a long , throwing stuff around to see what would stick and what didn't (because RIB got bored with it, or it didn't have the reception they wanted), was changed halfway or new things were introduced and then dropped, etc.

Other problems:

1. Their inability to LET GO and let the stories move forward. Instead, Sue is still doing the same thing she did the first year even though now it's pathetic. Finchel is in the same place they were last year, as are Wemma, for example. They keep going in circles and bringing the characters to the same place after they had moved forward and should've been moving on. I mean, Firework anyone? Fuinn 2.0?

2. Their lack of proper build up to the storylines and all the retconing they do. We shouldn't have to be fanwanking that Quinn's line about feeling fat when she had sex with Puck had to do with her Lucy Caboozy past to try to convince ourselves that it didn't come out of nowhere, we shouldn't have to dissect Santana's past behavior with boys in order to explain her being a lesbian now. It's one thing to be subtle and have subtext, but we shouldn't have to look THAT hard.

3. The wasting of potentially interesting storylines. So, let's of course completely ignore that Quinn had a daughter that she gave up for adoption, even though that should've been a huge thing for her. Let's of course solve all of Quinn's issues with a haircut instead of actually addressing her crazy behavior which looked like she was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. Same thing with Quick, or all the potential rivalry between Sam and Finn, etc, etc.

4. The lack of insight into the characters. For example, Finn came off as a douche because truly got into his head to understand what was it about Quinn that made her so irresistible to him. Rachel was just pathetic pining after Finn, for the same reasons. Many things felt like they were going through the motions and that made it hard to care.

5. The Dalton/bullying thing-FAIL. Too dark, too after school special, too much heroic/victim Kurt, coupled with using him as a soapbox for gay issues. Making Dave gave seemed redundant in light of them going the same way with Santana (who I'm happy is gay, though), and the idea that the homophobes are closeted gays irks me. They could've given Dave other demons since I partially agree with the idea that sometimes bullies are troubled (not that it excuses them), since that helps with the forgiveness.

6. The inexplicable dropping of storylines. I fear the black hole where Beth, Quick, the Mercedes/Quinn friendship and Rachel's mom went.

Having said that, the season was enjoyable at times, it wasn't unwatchable. It just left you with the feeling that it could be much BETTER because the characters/actors are so great and they had good ideas in their inception, but failed to live up to their potential. Musicals are really complicated to write and produce, so I'm sure that all the hurrying they had to do influenced this. I hope that bringing in new writers will help.

I did LOVE, LOVE that Santana because a bigger player, both as a character and as a singer, she stole the season for me. I also enjoyed that they opened the show up and started focusing on other characters since by the end of season one I was tired of the same Sue, Finchel, Wemma. I just wish they had done more with them, not necessarily in terms of screentime, but in terms of substance.

I generally liked the music in the second season more than the first, I found it more fun.

Edited by natyxg, Jun 12, 2011 @ 1:27 PM.

[Sassafrastic]

On S2 vs S1, there isn't a single episode in the entire show that I will rewatch every scene in. Glee to me has always been wildly inconsistent in likability. I do agree that S1/F13 especially were written more consistently from a 'technical' standpoint, but none of the featured storylines or characters really interested me (I liked Rachel, Kurt, Mercedes, and Puck but wasn't really drawn in by their plots) so it's a wash.

S2 was a hot mess at times structurally but I found it more entertaining and compelling overall, and I didn't become more than a GA member until midway through this year. I also think that while Glee will probably never lose that After School Special quality (while I wish it would), I actually found a lot of those plots less saccharine than in S1. I do think that they lost some of the satire along with it, though, so next season I want more comedy with less schmaltz and angst than either season has done.

I'm glad they cut back on the adult storylines (although they could go even further IMO). I like that they spread the songs and storylines around more. Happy for more music from Naya, Kevin, and Amber in particular and the addition of Darren. The writing for Rachel was a major decline and disappointment, and Sue was just a mess. I've always wanted Quinn and Finn to take a backseat but they were even more unlikable in S2. I think Brittany should have stayed a background character. Glad for more Mike Chang. Love triangles and cheating were annoying but not really new. Hated the non-joke original songs. I feel that the group numbers declined as well as any build-up to or investment in competitions, but I still think there were lots of fabulous performances this year (especially duets and small groups like the Bieber boys and yes, the Warblers).

But, the two most influential things about Season 2 for me, in my relationship with the show beyond watching it for pure entertainment:
1) It was somewhat gradual, but the Kurt + Blaine stuff in Silly Love Songs was the moment where I went from a GA member to a true fan. I started to be more engaged with Kurt and found something very compelling about Blaine starting with Never Been Kissed, but the leap in my investment in the show took awhile.

2) The most "overnight" transformative moment for me was Santana's storyline in Sexy. I liked Naya's voice and thought Santana was entertaining, but I was shocked to be so moved by her performance. I basically looked at the character and the actress in an entirely new perspective from that point on and now I really hope that she becomes a central figure in the show next year.

Jayma Mays in Born This Way - both during her talk with Will where he cleaned her grapes and her session with the psychiatrist. Kurt breaking down after being named Prom Queen; the ugly crying gutted me.

These are also very strong moments for me (see also Santana above), and were personally more moving than say the funeral or Grilled Cheesus. This is the level of drama that I think Glee should stick to.

[brave little toaster]

ITA with much of your post, Sassafrastic.

While I understand why season 1 is the golden child for many fans, and it makes sense as it's what drew most of us in in the first place, I actually favor the highs [and concomitant lows] of season 2. I enjoyed season 1, and it may have been more consistent, but none of the story lines grabbed me. I was bored by the pregnancy plot that dominated the season. There were some real clunkers in season 2, but more moments of sheer brilliance as well. Furthermore many of the performers grew [Cory, who I thought was pretty weak in season 1, has become a better actor and singer] and I liked the field promotions of Naya and Heather, who are more talented than we ever could have known last year. I liked the backgrounding of Jenna, because frankly I just don't find her that compelling. And I thought 2/3 of Gwyneth's appearances were actually awesome. I get the hate. I was living in New York the summer of 96 when she made her splash debut and everything about her privileged upbringing made me want to vom. But I think she's earned her spot even if she never paid her dues. I like her as a recurring character and I think she adds a good spark to the show [along with Chenowith, who I think is a little more one-note, but who I still enjoy]. I see a lot of complaints about how big the cast of characters has grown, but I'm drawn to large ensemble shows. The Gleeverse is reminding me more and more of the Buffyverse in how it manages a large group of people in its orbit, and I prefer that to something more insular. I like knowing that Holly Holiday is out there somewhere and will probably drop in a few times on season 3.

This is still one of the most enjoyable programs on tv. I'm biased [as we all are] in that I was delighted they added a lesbian character [or outed one, or whatever] for me to care about, so I'll always have a soft spot for season 2 as the year Naya really came into her own. It speaks well of the casting director that a couple of glorified extras grew into 3 dimensional characters many of us cared about this year.

[RedRumVines]

I thought 2/3 of Gwyneth's appearances were actually awesome

I really liked her in The Substitute, even though I admit I didn't want to. Holly was fun. It was bringing her back later again that was overkill for me. There were so many other stories needing to be told. Kristin Chenoweth is lovely, but I didn't see the point in bringing her in this season. Jonathan Groff, oh my. I love Jesse St. James, but if they weren't going to use him properly, they should have just waited till next season when they could have plotted things better. Maybe he's still coming back. I hope so.

I would have liked Season 2's storylines coupled with Season 1's consistency.

Were there any things you would have changed in retrospect? (Everything's easier to judge in retrospect.) For me :

I wouldn't have broken up Finn and Rachel and devoted time to actual plots for them instead of sad sack songs and douchebaggery. Everyone else got to move on, these two regressed.

Emma and Will would have stayed together and the show would have concentrated on them being good teachers/ counselors. It would have brought them closer to the kids' story lines and made jumps to them less jarring.

As soon as Charice didn't live up to acting expectations, I would have given the Rachel's rival storyline to Mercedes and Santana. They could have battled it out to wrest leadership away from both Rachel and Finn. You know Santana's got it in her.

I would have given Sam's part in the quarterback rivalry to Puck. (I'm guessing they play different positions and all but I know nuts about American football. Football to me is a game with a ball you actually kick with your foot.) Chord does dorky well but he was a poor Finn 2.0. Plus, I miss the Finn-Puck friendship.

I would have played up Sam's nerdiness from the beginning. He could have still joined the football team, but I think if they had contrasted his sweet nature with Quinn's desire to win from the start, they both could have shown growth. They needn't have stayed together but I hate third party breakups. People split for all sorts of reasons.

I would have had one or two episodes that really explored Kurt at Dalton but brought him back to McKinley sooner. Also transferred Blaine earlier. I mean, I liked the Warbler numbers but given a choice, I'd pick plot over song any time.

I would have left Quinn on the Cheerios. It's okay for girls to be ambitious, you know, and Quinn stands up to Sue. It would have also given Sue a better link to the general storyline, if they insist on giving her material. Her schtick's getting tired.

I would rather have seen one episode of Puck wooing Lauren and then her turning him down. Puck still gets to be a lovable badass, and Lauren's a strong, independent woman who doesn't fall for guys who insult her. Puck might learn a thing or two, but it's okay with me either way.

[wrightstuff]

Overall season two probably isn't as bad as people think it is, it just seems that way (I think that makes sense)

I agree with those that say that season one had a better storyline arcs and certainly there seemed to be a better 'team ethic' in the first season. Having said that I think I preferred more individual episodes from season two (Duets, NBK, TSSS, Silly Love Songs, Sexy, Original Song and Prom Queen)

The Good
I liked the Karofsky storyline, even if I think RIB went OTT with the wedding topper stuff. Though I'm still a bit confused by how a bullying storyline (which is what RIB apparently said they were doing this season) turned into a coming out storyline. I get that Kurt felt unsafe and had to leave McKinley, but as soon as they made Dave gay I became way more interested in his journey to self acceptance. TSSS was a fun episode that actually seemed to have a decent plot, decent character motivations and good song.... well if you ignore the stupid canon stuff with Sue.

I didn't feel that the episode made me feel sorry for Dave, which is what I think some critics of the episode felt. I mean aside from the 'gay anvils' and the cheesy "wow the crowd are cheering" run onto the pitch I don't see what shown that forced the audience to like Dave. As an episode that was on following the Superbowl, it worked as a simple one off story that casual viewers could watch and not get too confused by.

Equally good was RIB's (eventual) decision to stick to their guns and confirm Santana as a lesbian. Whilst is was semi interesting seeing her try to get with Finn or Puck (she does have good chemistry with them) it was a more interesting storyline seeing Santana lay her feelings on the line to Brittany. I think Sexy was a high point in terms of acting from Naya, with a performance that would good enough to rival some of the stuff Chris gets praised for.

The introduction of Bieste was a plus point, though bar Audition, NBK and TSSS Dot Marie didn't have many chances to flex her acting muscles (though I did like her singing in BIOTA). I'm glad there's a character for Will to bounce off of that has nothing to do with glee club or love interests.

I know there's a lot of hate for her, but I really liked Holly Holliday. I don't totally get the backlash towards Gwyneth, yeah sure she probably had one or two too many songs (but overall I think her character worked). Her appearances at least pushed the characters somewhat (okay maybe not so much in NON).

Finally though they weren't popular with a huge section of the fandom, I really enjoyed the Warblers and the majority of their story arc. It was nice seeing a different glee club and style of singing (even if this really just consisted of Darren). Granted RIB could and probably should have fleshed out a few other characters to at least make Kurt's a bit more about him pining over Blaine (which is how it came across to me post-Special Education)

The Bad
"Comedy bullying is fine and if you didn't get the point the first time, allow us to do it again & again & again". RIB seriously set themselves up for a fall by only making Kurt a victim of bullying, whilst expecting to laugh at the rest of the glee club treatment. Puck trapped in a portaloo - funny; Teacher and class throwing shoes at glee club - funny; Sue shoving AI leader down the stairs twice - funny are the one's that spring to mind.

I can't say I'm please at how Rachel turned into a lovesick puppy desperately pining over Finn. Their break up seemed a bit too random and contrived. Then to top that RIB decided for some unknown reason to have Finn break up Sam & Quinn (who genuinely seemed like a nice couple) so they could rehash last season's Rachel/Finn/Quinn love triangle. They almost made it work with Quinn's speech to Rachel about how she was destined for better things than Lima. However that didn't last and Quinn seemed to turn into a prom obsessed automaton.

Whilst I did enjoy the Dalton arc, I think there should have been more done with Kurt trying to fit into new surroundings. Other than the "have you noticed we all where uniforms around here?" stuff from Special Education, all Kurt did was sit around 'do-wapping behind Blaine'. I get that RIB were probably rushed into extending Darren's contract but the OTT wedding topper stuff and lack of plan of what to do with Kurt once he left McKinley was very grating.

I didn't like how RIB seemed to be hedging their bets regarding Brittany and Santana. First they acknowledge they're a proper couple in Duets, then they ignore it until Sexy (retrospectively stating they'd been hooking up off screen). Annoyingly between getting to that point in Sexy they set up Artie and Brittany as a decent couple (in my eyes), which meant that Artie at some point was gonna get dumped on from a great height just to get the girls together. It's still a bit baffling how Brittany can cheat on Artie and he still comes off as the bad guy for calling her stupid.

The Will/Emma/Carl love triangle could have had some potential if RIB bothered to use John Stamos post marraige. I get that Will and Emma will probably end up together, but what was the point of the 'game changing' plot twist in SE, if they then ignore any of the consequences until four months later. Don't even get me started on the vanishing act that Carol did after TSSS, you'd think there would be some fallout/confrontation between Finn and his mother when he got back together with Quinn (you know the girl who lied about Finn being her baby's dad - hang what baby was that?)

Least favourite episodes for me Britney/Brittany, RHGS, Comeback and NON, which barely had any plot and seemed like the worst sort of filler episodes. B/B probably could have worked as the post Superbowl episode as it wouldn't have alienated those casual 26m viewers who didn't tune into Silly Loves Songs two days later. Generally those episode had nothing substantial happen in them bar breaking up Sam & Quinn and bringing Santana into the bullying/Dave coming out storyline.

I also didn't like the fact that two of the original six glee clubbers were given next to no storylines.

Mercedes had a pretty insulting Tots storyline (if you can call it that) and a semi interesting "why don't I get the solos" lament in NON. Whilst those were pretty lame, it was like the complete works of Shakespeare compared to what Tina got. Have her dump Artie over his apparent awful attitude (despite addressing that in an episode last season) and hook her up with Mike to do the square root of nothing. I get that some people don't care for either character, but if they're not given anything to do besides sing the odd duet or solo (though not successfully for Tina in the latter case) how are they supposed to become more interesting.

I guess the number one problem was inconsistency, hopefully the arrival of new writers will address this problem in season three.

[QueenCharisma]

I hated Season 2.

Season 1 was not perfect. In fact, the back 9 episodes of that season were awful for the most part ("Laryngitis" is the only ep from that batch I will rewatch - Puck's voiceovers were comedy gold). That was the beginning of the end in terms of the writing on this show: plot points that get brought up and then dropped, tribute episodes that contribute jack squat to the overall story arc of the season, out of character behavior from several characters just to serve a joke (and most of those jokes weren't as funny as the writers thought they were so that made it worse), songs being shoehorned into episodes for no apparent reason other than the song happened to pop up on any one of the writers iPod's when they were banging out the script, etc. Even the front 13 episodes had some serious problems, namely Babygate. It was that storyline that made me hate Will and Finn for being so effing stupid and loathe Terri and Quinn for just being plain horrible.

But Season 1 had something that this season didn't - magic. It was new, it was fresh, and even when a lot of the stuff they tried to do failed, the characters were written in a way that the actors could really shine. I actually began to like Finn in the back 9 because despite his occasional dips into the douchepool, Cory was charming enough to make you think that Finn was just a bumbling fool and not purposely being malicious (i.e. "Theatricality"). I actually had moments of sympathy for that little psycho Quinn and started seeing a little something between her and Puck that I definitely never saw between her and Finn.

This season, the writing was so abysmal that not even the cast could rise above it and it sunk the characters.

First of all, nothing happened. What I mean by this is, everyone pretty much wound up right back where they started at the beginning of the season/end of last season. The only character we learned anything new about was Santana. Emma got a little development and growth when she finally owned up to the fact that her OCD wasn't some cute little quirk she could brush off, but a serious illness that was getting in the way of her living her life. But almost everyone else stayed stagnant. Kurt was still the oppressed gay kid whose entire storyline revolved around, yet again, his sexuality; Will was still stupid and still using the glee club to work out his emotional issues; Mercedes, Tina, and Mike were still furniture (cute furniture, but furniture nonetheless); Sue was still a bully until she saw the glee kids sing and now she's nice...just like last season; and Quinn was still a psycho for no good reason, and still useless, as was Terri.

And then there was the character regressions/assassinations. Puck...well, I can't even call what happened to him a regression because Season 1 Puck was never this bland. Don't get me wrong - dude is still funny. And I appreciate the fact that Mark and Naya seem to be the only permanent cast members who consistently remember they're in a comedy (or a show that was a comedy) with all the over the top background work they do. However; the entire Lauren storyline was an epic fail for his character. I thought the writers were going to go in the direction of putting Puck with a girl who doesn't take his crap so he could grow and learn to maybe be a tad more considerate while still maintaining his badassness. Then, when the inevitable breakup occurred, he'd be ready to be in a real relationship with a girl without being a complete douche. Instead, we get neutered Puck that cries while watching old people sing (it was funny, but come on). He went from one extreme to the other without any of the little steps in between to show us why or how he got there. And then they shunted him back down to the basement with Tina, Mike, and Mercedes.

Then there was Finn. What the hell happened there? Everything out of his mouth this season was, "Tool, tool, TOOL!!!" and that's all I can remember. Even his occasional scenes with Kurt left me cold because he'd been acting like an effing butthole the other 98% of the time! It's like he and Puck switched brains all of a sudden, and again, we didn't see why. His storyline about being desperate to stay popular by competing with Sam was inexplicably dropped, we barely saw the Hudmel blending of the households so we don't even know if that led to his new attitude - all season long he was just hopping from one misadventure to another with no aim and no purpose other than to be an ass.

But the worst character assassination on this show, and probably in the history of television, was the assassination of Rachel Berry. I didn't realize how much my enjoyment of this show hinged on this character until I saw the fuckery that was the second half of this season and almost vomited. I always said that Kurt Hummel was my favorite and though I loved Rachel, she wasn't the be all and end all of my watching experience. Well, apparently I was wrong because I wanted to pull a Sue Sylvester and punch a bitch when I had to sit through 6+ effing episodes of this girl whining and crying and singing ridiculously overwrought solos about Finn-effing-Hudson! The boy who sat back and let the entire glee club (minus Puck) dump on her during the Santana sex reveal, the boy who dumped her because he was oh so offended that she had the audacity to cheat on him...but then took back his ex-girlfriend who not only cheated on him, but got pregnant with another dude's baby and then tried to pass it off as his - I mean, what the hell was that?!

And the most infuriating thing about this is that it could've easily been explained with some subtle hints throughout the season starting from "Audition." The girl just went through this hella traumatic experience with her birth mother manipulating her way into her life - only to drop kick her to the curb because she was 16 and apparently, 16-year-olds don't need moms. Her very first serious boyfriend, a guy whom she seemingly had everything in common with, betrayed her over a show choir competition. All the writers had to do, even starting as far back as the Sunshine storyline, was let us into Rachel's head. Drop some hints in a voiceover or something about how she felt about her boyfriend being a double agent who made breakfast on her head and her mother adopting her nemesis's daughter. Then, when Rachel started acting psychotic and obsessive after Finn dumped her, it would've made sense - she's obviously acting like a nutcase because she's tired of people using her and then dropping her like a bad habit when it's convenient for them to do so. She wants just one person to love her and the person she thought did (Finn) didn't so she has to get him back to prove to herself that she's not unlovable; this storyline didn't have to really be about Finn at all.

But then that would mean we'd actually have to remember shit that happened last season (like Shelby's existence and Beth's birth) and clearly the writers weren't having that.

No, instead we had to have 50 million guest stars that served no purpose in the grand scheme of the season (did we really need Holly Holliday to tell Will that he was in love with Emma and vice versa? Wasn't that their entire arc last season?); twice as many flimsy, plotless themed episodes; a show choir that I couldn't care less about whose only real function was to introduce Blaine (why he couldn't have just been a transfer to McKinley at the midway point, I'll never understand); a bullying story arc that not only dragged the show's tone down into ASSy territory, but also didn't seem to have a point once all was said and done; new characters who also served no purpose in the grand scheme of the season (Sam was utterly useless until that last scene in the finale with Mercedes, Lauren is a blight on Puck's character arc, and where the hell was Coach Beiste?) and stupid one-off episodes that didn't build up the suspense to Nationals whatsoever. If the writers had cut down half of this crap (obviously, they were gonna keep Dalton and The Warblers), they would've had time for character development if not for all of the characters, than for the major characters and some nice shining moments for the secondary cast.

They had 22 episodes to work with and this is what we got?! Someone upthread compared this show to the Buffyverse in a favorable way and I have to respectfully disagree. In the first season of that series alone, we knew right from the very first episode who each character was. And then by episode 12, every single person had changed in some way. 12 episodes! That's half a season with character growth and development. Here, we got a full season and maybe one or two fully realized characters out of it. That's waste.

But the biggest waste of the season by far was Rachel. And no matter how many things I did like about the season (there was a stretch of episodes from the Superbowl ep to about "Original Song" that were pretty good; "Duets" was fabulous), that character's treatment singlehandedly destroyed my enjoyment of this show. Rachel was the person that drove the action in the series. She was the one who was obsessively determined to succeed in competition no matter what. Even when she was Finn-centric last season, girl was still going batshit over rehearsals and giving her teammates shit for not pulling their weight. Where was that girl this season? Because we needed her to give the competition episodes weight. If Rachel Berry, the most competitive and driven person in that club doesn't give two shits about winning anymore, why should I care if New Directions wins anything? It's like the writers completely forgot who this girl was supposed to be until the last episode when they needed her to float the idea of a possible spin-off. *sighs*

So much potential down the drain. Hopefully the new writers can save this sinking ship. I already know I'm not watching any spin-offs, I don't care who's in it, but I'd at least like to enjoy my last season with Mercedes, Puck, and Santana in the

[Mnemosyne78]

All the awards for Queen Charisma!!!! Brava!!!! Brava!!! Pretty much everything I've been too lazy to post.

[natyxg]

All the writers had to do, even starting as far back as the Sunshine storyline, was let us into Rachel's head.

THIS.

This applied a lot of the characters and left them looking way worse than they would've if they had let us into their head instead of forcing us to fanwank a million things.

If we had known exactly why Finn was so drawn to Quinn, maybe he wouldn't have come across as douchey as he did.

If Quinn's insane story arc of horribleness and popularity/Prom Queen obsessions had been put into the context of her situation and it had been about how that was her way of dealing with all the stuff she went through (baby given away, divorced parents, etc), then the audience might've cared more and not dismissed her as a horrible bitch.

If we had been let into Santana's head ever since Duets and could see the seeds of her struggles with her attraction to Brittany and her own sexuality and loneliness, then maybe that stretch between Duets and Sexy could've made more sense, her coming out wouldn't have felt so abrupt and the character could've had a better reception and even more growth.

If, like you say, we had been let into Rachel's head and we had been shown what was it about Finn that she was so obsessed with, then she wouldn't have come across as so pathetic.

If we had been let into Brittany's head, we wouldn't have spent half the season wondering if she belonged in Special Ed and being somewhat freaked out by her relationship with Artie (or was that just me?)

I'd keep going but I think I made my point.

[QueenCharisma]

Glad to be of service, Mnemosyne78 ;-) I've had that damn rant bottled up all season long, lol. I really need to stop watching so much TV....

[DEM]

No, instead we had to have 50 million guest stars that served no purpose in the grand scheme of the season (did we really need Holly Holliday to tell Will that he was in love with Emma and vice versa? Wasn't that their entire arc last season?); twice as many flimsy, plotless themed episodes; a show choir that I couldn't care less about whose only real function was to introduce Blaine (why he couldn't have just been a transfer to McKinley at the midway point, I'll never understand); a bullying story arc that not only dragged the show's tone down into ASSy territory, but also didn't seem to have a point once all was said and done; new characters who also served no purpose in the grand scheme of the season (Sam was utterly useless until that last scene in the finale with Mercedes, Lauren is a blight on Puck's character arc, and where the hell was Coach Beiste?) and stupid one-off episodes that didn't build up the suspense to Nationals whatsoever.

Brilliant.

On the topic of guest stars, it also seems that recurring guests got a lot more attention than their counterparts in S1. That is, compare the S2 screen time of Sam and Lauren and Blaine to that of Santana and Brittany and Mike in S1. I don't want to sound begrudging, but they took up of space. One can't focus on both the recurring Glee kids (OK) and the Cavalcade of Stars (not OK).

Edited by DEM, Jun 13, 2011 @ 10:09 PM.