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The Latest Book: A Dance with Dragons


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#1

TWoP Dietrich

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 1:49 PM

Thread Rules

Anything from the books is fair game in this thread, including A Dance with Dragons. If you haven't read it and don't want to know anything about what happens, this is not a good thread to read. Up until the book is available, there will probably be discussion of reviews and excerpts, and those don't need spoiler bars in this thread.

Once the book comes out, it may be discussed freely in this thread. Outside this thread, give people a week to catch up, so it shouldn't be discussed even in the Book vs. Show thread until July 19. And even after that, remember that its discussion should be somehow relevant to what's happened on the show, you know?

If there are any questions, feel free to PM me or ask in the Mod thread.

#2

Grom

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 2:05 PM

Thanks for the thread!

Outside of Dany, Tyrion and Jon as confirmed POVs, has there been a list released of any others? I just read that Barristan was getting one and rumors that a character we hadn't heard from in awhile would be one (I'm guessing Theon since we never got his death confirmed). But I hadn't heard of anyone else.

#3

Estelindis

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 2:09 PM

The book will contain the following POV characters:

Varamyr Sixskins (prologue POV)
Daenerys Targaryen
Jon Snow
Tyrion Lannister
Davos Seaworth
Bran Stark
Arya Stark
Asha Greyjoy, aka 'The Wayward Bride'
Theon Greyjoy, aka 'Reek'
Victarion Greyjoy
Quentyn Martell, aka 'The Merchant's Man'
Areo Hotah
Barristan Selmy
Melisandre of Asshai
Cersei Lannister
Jaime Lannister
An as-yet unidentified new POV
An as-yet unidentified epilogue POV

See here for the source of this information plus more info. :-)

#4

Hanahope

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 2:16 PM

From the linked article.

George has recently confirmed that more POV characters will die in the remaining books, but not necessarily in ADWD.



I hope someone survives the whole story....

#5

Litewraith

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 2:26 PM

Melisandre of Asshai


She's going to be a POV character in Dance? Awesome, she's one of the 3 characters whose head I would love to get inside of (The others being Littlefinger and Varys).

Areo Hotah


Can't recall who this is.

#6

kieran555

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 2:35 PM

Theon Greyjoy, aka Reek

That cannot be good given his current situation if it means what I think. As dickish as he was he was the only Greyjoy I sort of liked, although they may be more about them than him.

Varamyr Sixskins (prologue POV)

Sixskins? Reminds me of the Lord of Bones - not a good image.

Barristan Selmy

It's been a while for me - is this a new POV? Finally a new one I'm looking forward to if it is.

Edited by kieran555, Jun 8, 2011 @ 2:35 PM.


#7

Litewraith

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 2:37 PM

It's been a while for me - is this a new POV? Finally a new one I'm looking forward to if it is.


Yeah he's a new POV. Before we only say him through the King's Landing POV characters in GoT. And later on through the Dany POV when he was masquerading was Whitebeard.

Edited by Litewraith, Jun 8, 2011 @ 2:38 PM.


#8

majael

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 2:38 PM

Areo Hotah


Can't recall who this is.

Captain of the guards, down in Dorne. From AFfC.

#9

whitearrow22

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 2:45 PM

Poor Brienne. Still hanging...

#10

Litewraith

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 2:55 PM

Captain of the guards, down in Dorne. From AFfC.


Ah thanks. Figures it would be from Feast for Crows, I only read that book once when it was released. My least favorite in the series. Too much Brienne not enough anyone who I actually care about.

#11

SimplyS

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 3:09 PM

Still too many damn Greyjoys (since we're minus Sansa we've as many of them here as Starks at this point, and that's counting Jon Snow).

I'm also not particularly excited about more and more PoV characters (though it doesn't look quite as bad in that regard as AFfC), but I am highly interested in what Selmy and the Red Witch are thinking.

Edited by SimplyS, Jun 8, 2011 @ 3:12 PM.


#12

Hanahope

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 4:02 PM

Poor Brienne. Still hanging...


Well, looks like that will get resolved. From the article linked above:

Because of the longer timepan, George has been able to revisit at least some of the characters left hanging (in some cases, literally) at the end of AFFC to keep their storylines in synch with the longer timespan of ADWD.



#13

whitearrow22

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 4:08 PM

Huh. I wonder through whose POV that could be resolved? Jaime? Seems a stretch, though.

#14

cyberducks

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 4:16 PM

Because of the longer timepan, George has been able to revisit at least some of the characters left hanging (in some cases, literally) at the end of AFFC to keep their storylines in synch with the longer timespan of ADWD.


So Brienne's cliffhanger may be resolved yet she has no POV? I don't know that doesn't sound very hopeful...

Theon as "Reek" - hmm, maybe I better not eat anything before reading that POV.

George has recently confirmed that more POV characters will die in the remaining books, but not necessarily in ADWD.


Grabs Jaime and tries to hide him from Martin's brutal pen.

#15

Yagathai

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 4:21 PM

With. A Dance WITH Dragons.

#16

litex

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 4:34 PM

The Dorne/Greyjoy folks better pay off big time in this one, and/or die in cool and interesting ways. I'm not opposed to cast bloat, if the new characters are interesting, but most of the new characters in AFFC weren't. Areo Hotah and Victarion? Meh.

Barristan and Melisandre on the other hand, I couldn't be more excited for.

#17

Reia

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 4:40 PM

Theon as "Reek" - hmm, maybe I better not eat anything before reading that POV.


Reek's sample chapter is still available on Amazon.co.uk. It's pretty damn rank, but it actually made me feel a touch of sympathy for Theon. He's an ass, an arrogant prick, a backstabber (albeit with a interesting motivation), and possibly killed his own son, but damn. That's rough, buddy.

Very excited for Mel's POV.

Edited by Reia, Jun 8, 2011 @ 4:40 PM.


#18

TWoP Dietrich

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 4:41 PM

With. A Dance WITH Dragons.


Fixed.

#19

Maximum Taco

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 5:15 PM

Reek's sample chapter is still available on Amazon.co.uk. It's pretty damn rank, but it actually made me feel a touch of sympathy for Theon. He's an ass, an arrogant prick, a backstabber (albeit with a interesting motivation), and possibly killed his own son, but damn. That's rough, buddy.


Wait, Theon had a son?

I kind of felt like Theon deserved everything he got. Turncloak.

#20

halfwaygone

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 5:16 PM

I kind of felt like Theon deserved everything he got. Turncloak.


Until the Reek chapter, I'd agree with you. He deserved to die and lose and all. But I'm not sure anyone deserves the torments they've cooked up for him or to live the way he lives.

#21

Estelindis

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 5:20 PM

Wait, Theon had a son?

It's not a certain matter, Maximum Taco, but it's possible that one of the boys Theon had killed and tarred to make the folk of Winterfell believe he'd killed Bran and Rickon was in fact his own son. He slept with the mother, the miller's wife, a few times. (See Ch. 50 of Clash.)

Edited by Estelindis, Jun 8, 2011 @ 5:22 PM.


#22

Maximum Taco

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 5:24 PM

It's not a certain matter, Maximum Taco, but it's possible that one of the boys Theon had killed and tarred to make the folk of Winterfell believe he'd killed Bran and Rickon was in fact his own son. He slept with the mother, the miller's wife, a few times. (See Ch. 50 of Clash.)


Oh! I remember that part and even about him saying he had been with the miller's wife, I never made the connection that he could possibly have been the father of fake Rickon (I assume he'd be a bit too young to be the father of fake Bran.)

That is pretty messed up.

#23

Valaryaz

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 5:28 PM

I asked in the mod thread whether or not we are allowed to discuss the chapters already released here. Until he answers?

I will just say this much, without getting into specifics until we get the all clear.

That first chapter made me want to throw up. Seriously. UGH.

#24

ElymianDucat

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 5:32 PM

I asked in the mod thread whether or not we are allowed to discuss the chapters already released here. Until he answers?

The opening post of this thread says:

Up until the book is available, there will probably be discussion of reviews and excerpts, and those don't need spoiler bars in this thread.

So I think we're good.

Edited by ElymianDucat, Jun 8, 2011 @ 5:32 PM.


#25

Valaryaz

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 6:10 PM

Yeah, he just said it was OK.

Now, did I really need Theon eating his own flesh or more disgusting flaying talk? No. I seriously did not.

#26

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 6:20 PM

The Publisher Weekly review is making the book sound very much like AFfC pt 2 (i.e., more aftermath/set up type deal than anything. Gross.)

Yes, I know some of ADwD is literally AFfC pt 2. But I was hoping the rest of the book would resume the narrative drive, but it's not sounding like it.

#27

Valaryaz

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 6:28 PM

I am pissed about that whole thing too.

Wait half a decade and have no plot advancement at all? Just "meanwhile back at the wall?" Oh, and forgettabout all of the stories in AFFC having any progression, because we are now back to ASOS peeps part two progression?

What was he thinking? He should have done a part one and part two if the damn book was too long but already written. At least they would have come out at roughly the same time, and it wouldn't feel this stupid.

And then to start with cannibalism? A whole chapter of torture to lead off? Frankly, I don't have very high hopes for this one. He is damn lucky HBO is doing this show, because while die-hard fans will stick with an author through thick and thin? I think this whole thing would have backfired on him.

#28

sedeyus

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 6:43 PM

That Publisher Weekly Review also mentions that book has a "heart-hammering conclusion" so I think the plot advancement will be fine.

#29

Valaryaz

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 6:54 PM

The other chapter I read was at the wall and Samwell and party hadn't even left yet. I was so confused! I thought for a minute Samwell had come back, but then they discussed the Maester and I had to go check other places to find out the plan for DWD.

So, yeah, I expect some minor advancement (time), at least in the stories left out of AFFC, but as far as the whole? I really hope that is true. AFFC had some heart-hammering stuff as well.

It's not that I expect it to be boring, just frustrating, and frankly, kind of confusing.

#30

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Posted Jun 8, 2011 @ 6:54 PM

The new novel has to be setup; while I liked "A Game of Thrones" on its own, after reading a third of book two, it became abundantly clear it was written to introduce a series rather than standalone. We spent three books on the Westeros civil war, but the narrative is shifting to the final battle between men and The Others. We need setup to fully understand how that story will play out. We have so many players spread over different continent and pursuing other goals, but all their various arcs began to link in "A Feast of Crows," particularly through the Greyjoys and Martells. An epic battle is coming, yes, but also a Targaryen reconquest. We have the seeds, but the foundation hasn't been set and while the plot won't move forward, it will reveal a ton of new information we need and didn't know before. These books are so rich and detailed; I just like learning how things are playing out!

I do mind more Cersei. She lacks a single redeeming quality and I don't look forward to more time in her head. Although maybe she'll stop slapping people and I won't hate her so much. I find that particular characteristic so childish that it makes it hard to take her seriously let alone develop any sympathy for her.

I am excited about the return of Theon. My poor, flayed Theon. His arc is one I'm most excited about and will help draw the North back into the fold.