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Ringer: Buffy's Back!


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#4261

CharlesTheBold

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 7:45 PM

==========
I mean, I don't think they should have to wrap up everything in one neat little bow and give us 100% closure, but if they leave us on some gratuitous cliffhanger, I'll be pissed.
============

I wish shows and movies would learn to write smart cliffhangers, that arouse curiosity without leaving fans hanging if the show is cancelled. Example: HUNGER GAMES. The last thing you see is the Emperor glaring with hatred at Kat and stomping off. It leaves something open for a sequel (which is obviously going to be made now), but if there wasn't a sequel, it's not a blatant loose end. BUFFY never ended seasons with wild cliffhangers, but it made you want to come back in the fall.

With one exception, an unresolved cliffhanger usually kills my interest in a show, because I know the story ultimately went nowhere. I don't buy its DVDs, I don't try to catch its reruns on cable.
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#4262

Dust Bunny

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 7:51 PM

I'll be shocked if this show gets renewed. They wouldn't tell us until after the finale because they wouldn't want [any more] people tuning out before then.

And I have to guess that SMG and Ioan don't come cheap (at least, I hope not).

Several times I've wanted to give up on the show because I've assumed it's going to be cancelled, but it's just so darn entertaining. It keeps sucking me back in.

Still, I'm 90% sure Tuesday's episode will be the series finale.

My dream scenario is for it to be revealed that Andrew has known it's Bridget for several weeks/months, has subsequently fallen in love with her, and it's Siobhan he's castigating in the preview.

Not holding my breath though. I'm expecting an unsatisfying cliffhanger to close out the show. And nothing against the writers/creators if that's the case. After all, they've had a 3 year arc in mind.
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#4263

ElectricBoogalo

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 8:38 PM

BUFFY never ended seasons with wild cliffhangers, but it made you want to come back in the fall..

I thought killing Buffy at the end of S5 was a pretty big cliff hanger!

Unfortunately, many shows like Ringer do not know if they will be renewed or canceled while they're shooting the last half of the season (months before the season finale airs) so the writers don't wrap everything up the way they would if they knew this was their last chance to tie up all loose ends. Ultimately it sucks for the viewers who are left wondering how things would have been resolved and relying on any tidbits the writers or producers toss around in interviews after cancellation.
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#4264

bmills

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 9:13 PM

I thought killing Buffy at the end of S5 was a pretty big cliff hanger!

Don't know if you were joking or not, but at the time they weren't sure the show was coming back, so The Gift was written as if it really would be the BTVS series finale (though they knew it wasn't by the time it was filmed). In which case Buffy would have stayed dead and it wouldn't have been a cliffhanger but an ending.
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#4265

SomeTameGazelle

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 9:18 PM

Spoiler


Spoiler

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#4266

uoflfan

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 9:33 PM

Maybe the father of Siobhan's twins is Bodaway Macawi or Mr. Logan Echolls Carpenter. That would be some soapy goodness.

Better yet, maybe the father is Solomon. OMG, that could be the best finale ever!
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#4267

Gapowie

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 11:26 PM

I don't think Siobhan should be obligated to at all. Catherine had a stupid reason for trying to kill Siobhan and when a crazy person tries to kill you for crazy reasons, I don't really see why you should have to look at your life and your choices. I didn't see any pleasure that Siobhan got from hurting Catherine. I thought she just didn't care about Catherine's pain and, well, why should she? It's not like Catherine's life was at all bad. I believe that she did care about Andrew at one point but even if she didn't it's not l ike she forced Andrew to leave Catherine for her and Andrew said the marriage was crumbling anyway. Since Andrew owns the property and now Catherine, it is overly generous to let her stay there at all and they have a right to sell it when they want to. Catherine likely didn't know about Henry or she'd mention it and even if she did, what does that have to do with anything?


Well, if someone that I knew went to all the trouble of trying to kill me on multiple occasions, even if that person was crazy I would still wonder, if only for a fleeting moment, why that person so desperately wanted me dead. Siobhan could use a healthy dose of self-examination. She and Catherine could be different sides of the same coin. I really like the way Ringer plays with the theme of doubles and identity, and I think they did that again here by juxtaposing Siobhan and Catherine. Both of them are conniving women who blame a third party for the loss of their child and are driven to kill. The reason it seemed to me that Siobhan was deriving pleasure out of causing Catherine pain was because she was threatening to sell the home that Catherine had lived in presumably for at least the last five years after the divorce from Andrew for no reason at all except to be vindictive. It's not the boarding school thing that makes me think Siobhan didn't care about Juliet; it's the way we have been lead to believe Siobhan treated Juliet based on the way Bridget was treated by everyone when she first assumed Siobhan's identity. Juliet hated her and was shocked when Bridget-as-Siobhan showed any interest in her. Henry told Bridget that Siobhan told him that she did not give a crap about Andrew or Juliet. Siobhan suggested to Henry that they have Andrew and Gemma killed, not thinking at all of the effect this would have on Juliet. Her Christmas cards featured a picture of her and Andrew without Juliet. And, yes, she had Juliet shipped off to boarding school. I don't think the writers have given us any indication that Siobhan had any feelings for Juliet. Catherine was married to Andrew for at least eleven years and tried to kill herself after he left her, partly in an attempt to guilt him into going back to her. I think Catherine had lots of legitimate reasons to hate Siobhan. And the reason that Siobhan's affair with Henry is important is because it shows that even though Siobhan had no feelings for Andrew and was in love with someone else, she was still going out of her way to hurt Catherine by convincing Andrew to sell that house. It just seems petty and malicious to me.

I think Catherine drugging Bridget and trying to drown her was really kind of horrible to watch not just because it was an attempted murder, but also because it was the attempted murder of Bridget, who is innocent of Siobhan's crimes. Catherine and Siobhan are much more evenly matched. This is not to say that Catherine is sane or anything. I mean, she is totally batshit, but I kind of understand how she got that way.

And it's not like it's "audacious" for Siobhan to hate Bridget. It was an accident but Sean still died because of her so she has every right to hate her. She even has a right to want her dead. It's the fact that she set her up to die (which, while horrible, was self-preservation since that was a practical way to save her life and get her would-be killer arrested so it's not like she was even actively aiming to kill her) which was the problem.


I agree that it's understandable and human for Siobhan to blame her sister and to hate her because of what happened to Sean. I can even understand her never wanting to see or speak to Bridget ever again. Attempting to have her killed is a different story altogether, and I don't buy the self-preservation angle at all. If Siobhan was looking for a practical way to keep herself safe, she could have gone to the police, divulged the Ponzi scheme, and gotten Andrew, who she thought was trying to kill her, thrown in prison for the rest of his life. Instead she concocted an elaborate scheme to bilk him of his stolen money after tricking him into killing her sister. I think for Siobhan, this is about hate, money, revenge, and jealousy. To paraphrase Xander, the quality of mercy is not Siobhan. God forbid because I can't even think about it, but I can't imagine anything more horrible than the loss of a child...except maybe being the cause of the loss of a child that you loved. Bridget loved Sean, too, and her life fell apart after he died. I have worked with many drug addicts, and I have been in a relationship with one, and I believe that most of them turn to drugs to mask some deep-seated pain. I'm not a psychologist or anything, but I think this is especially true of people who turn to pain pills, as Bridget did. Being a "junkie" is not a crime, and neither is being a stripper. Bridget punished herself for what happened to Sean, and Siobhan punished Bridget. You know, I kind of hate Siobhan. (Okay, I love to hate her.) But really, she is so holier-than-thou. If she thought Bridget was such a screw-up, why did she trust her to take care of Sean in the first place? Siobhan just blames everybody else for all of her problems. It's no wonder that the list of people who would have a motivation to kill her is so long. That in itself should make Bridget stop and think about the kind of person her sister was.
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#4268

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 11:51 PM

Spoiler

Spoiler

My dream scenario is for it to be revealed that Andrew has known it's Bridget for several weeks/months, has subsequently fallen in love with her, and it's Siobhan he's castigating in the preview.

That would ruin Andrew utterly for me. I mean, I'm already wary about the ponzi scheme that they're apparently just going to keep running quietly or something but if he knew and he didn't tell Bridget so she had to live in fear all this time...what a dick.

Well, if someone that I knew went to all the trouble of trying to kill me on multiple occasions, even if that person was crazy I would still wonder, if only for a fleeting moment, why that person so desperately wanted me dead. Siobhan could use a healthy dose of self-examination.

Siobhan, if she did this, would be forced to conclude that Catherine just really doesn't want to move.

she was threatening to sell the home that Catherine had lived in presumably for at least the last five years after the divorce from Andrew for no reason at all except to be vindictive.

What makes you think it was vindictiveness other than the fact that she's Siobhan? I think that it's more likely that she wanted Catherine to stop being drunk all over the place and figured that was a good way to get her out of their lives or maybe she just wanted the house sold for whatever reason and that involved relocating Catherine. And it's not like Catherine was legally entitled to live in Andrew's house for five years anyway or else they couldn't have been planning to sell it.

I don't think the writers have given us any indication that Siobhan had any feelings for Juliet.

No, I agree, but I don't see how Siobhan's indifference translates to trying to take her away from Catherine.

If Siobhan was looking for a practical way to keep herself safe, she could have gone to the police, divulged the Ponzi scheme, and gotten Andrew, who she thought was trying to kill her, thrown in prison for the rest of his life.

She clearly didn't have enough evidence to do this or she wouldn't have needed Tyler to go snooping for her. She could have made accusatoins but nothing would have been able to be proven. And since Andrew wasn't actually behind the attempt on her life she couldn't have gotten him there, either, and there was no real evidence until Bridget was attacked. At most, she could have gotten the SEC to investigate and by the time anything came of that they would have had her killed. Was she supposed to go into witness protection or something?

Edited by Princess Aldrea, Apr 12, 2012 @ 11:54 PM.

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#4269

oxymoron417

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 1:10 AM

Am I the only one who's sad because if the show is canceled we won't get to see more Bridget/Machado?

I do like Andrew and Bridget, but especially in the past few episodes with Machado working with Bridget (who of course he believes is Siobhan) and then Tuesday's episode where they are both bad asses with guns, I don't know. I would have definitely loved to see their relationship explored.

I guess had the show continued they might have done a Bridget/Andrew/Machado triangle 'cause it's so soapy! Not to mention I don't know if Andrew despite falling for Bridget would have ever been comfortable with her past.

I pretty much shipped Bridget with every guy except Henry. Especially poor Malcolm who is either dead or high again strapped to a chair in another one of Bodaway's strip joints.
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#4270

CharlesTheBold

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 6:40 AM

I can understand some characters wanting revenge on Bridget for Sean's death, but it seems out of character for Siobhan for me. Did she keep any pictures of herself holding Sean? No, she left one copy in her dresser and another in her secret office in New York. I think the big problem is that she is a control freak. Bridget disobeyed her, and that was her real crime for which she had to be murdered.

And another example of control freakiness is her elaborate scheme to manipulate matters from Paris, which falls apart when she tries to put it into operation. She didn't anticipate that Bridget would find her secret bank account, that Andrew would find Bridget lovable, that Tyler would run into Bridget as Mrs. Martin, that the thug she hired to control Gemma would resort to murder, etc.
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#4271

My Way

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 7:10 AM

The reason it seemed to me that Siobhan was deriving pleasure out of causing Catherine pain was because she was threatening to sell the home that Catherine had lived in presumably for at least the last five years after the divorce from Andrew for no reason at all except to be vindictive.

Wasn't that about the time she found out about the ponzi scheme? I think it's quite possible that she thought they needed to liquidate assets for that reason.

Also, thank you so much folks who mentioned who the John was in the maid hooker scene! I recognized him and so was sure he was going to be important. Heh.
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#4272

TVloserlife

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 8:20 AM

And it's not like it's "audacious" for Siobhan to hate Bridget. It was an accident but Sean still died because of her so she has every right to hate her. She even has a right to want her dead. It's the fact that she set her up to die (which, while horrible, was self-preservation since that was a practical way to save her life and get her would-be killer arrested so it's not like she was even actively aiming to kill her) which was the problem.

I agree with the first half of this, and would almost agree with the second half except for the part that, assuming Siobhan wasn't just lying to Henry about her motives, she has clearly now switched gears to absolutely needing Bridget dead. She could have stopped - Andrew was being investigated, someone else was taking care of the whole assassination plot, and Henry had asked her to let it go. But she just couldn't. She daydreams about shooting Bridget, and if Henry hadn't come home in time, she would have willingly attacked Bridget herself. Wishing someone were dead is one thing, actively trying to kill someone is another.

She clearly didn't have enough evidence to do this or she wouldn't have needed Tyler to go snooping for her. She could have made accusatoins but nothing would have been able to be proven. And since Andrew wasn't actually behind the attempt on her life she couldn't have gotten him there, either, and there was no real evidence until Bridget was attacked. At most, she could have gotten the SEC to investigate and by the time anything came of that they would have had her killed. Was she supposed to go into witness protection or something?

I cannot even explain how much I love the fact that we're arguing about how Siobhan's brilliant crazy plan to switch places with her twin and move to Paris is the most logical thing to do. I mean, in Ringer world, I absolutely agree, but if someone seriously wanted to try Siobhan's plan in real life, I think someone would be calling an insane asylum.
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#4273

agora

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 10:18 AM

The CW's Ringer On the Bubble: Keep Or Cut?

Also

Exclusive Ringer Finale First Look

Source: TV Line

Edited by agora, Apr 13, 2012 @ 10:20 AM.

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#4274

Ohmo

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 12:14 PM

The difference between Siobban and Catherine, for me, is that I do see Catherine as breaking away from reality. She's a villain who also happens to be mentally ill. Siobban comes across as an icy, cold bitch, and the more I see of her, the more I'm convinced that she didn't become this way because of Sean's death. I think that Sean temporarily thawed her ice cold heart in the short term, but once he died, the freeze was on again.

We also never saw any scenes of Siobban interacting with Sean in flashback. There was no hint of her even being maternal in terms of emotion. With what we've seen, Shiv is not above manipulating anybody or using them to service her own needs and agenda, including her
Spoiler
. When I saw that, I believed that the reason that she's mad at Bridget is because Sean is now gone and Sean "belonged" to Siobban. Not as parents have children, but as people possess objects that they can use. With Sean dead, she could no longer possess him for her own purposes.

That's why Juliet and Catherine were such threats, in my estimation. Juliet is Catherine and Andrew's child, and even though Catherine is Andrew's ex, the fact that they have a child together does tug at Andrew's heartstrings and means that Shiv can only manipulate him so much. Henry is an idiot, but I believe that he loves his family and at one time did love Gemma. Andrew may be a white-collar criminal, but I believe he loves Juliet and Catherine and did love Shiv at one time. Catherine loves Juliet and Andrew in her own warped way, and Bridget is also capable of love, in my opinion.

I don't think that Siobban is capable of love and never has been, not even to love Bridget. The flashbacks we saw when Bridget was a mess had Siobban bailing Bridget out, but there was no sense of love there. I understand that Bridget had been an addict for awhile, but I no longer think Siobban wasn't showing emotion toward Bridget because she was tired of the situation. I think she didn't show emotion because she has very little. She bailed Bridget out in Wyoming out of obligation or so Bridget would stay out of her way, but the moment that Andrew the Big Fish came calling, Shiv was off to NYC to manipulate anew. When she figured out that Bridget might be of actual use to her, Siobban manipulated Bridget into coming to New York to set about Shiv's disappearance.

To me, Siobban comes across as the definition of cold-blooded, cold-hearted, and evil, and that's a credit to SMG's ability to create two very distinct sisters. I'm sorry that those two baby girls have Siobban for a mother.

Edited by Ohmo, Apr 13, 2012 @ 12:15 PM.

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#4275

Gapowie

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 12:17 PM

Very beautifully said, Ohmo, and I agree completely.

Edited by Gapowie, Apr 13, 2012 @ 12:17 PM.

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#4276

derryth

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 2:07 PM

I hope neither Andrew nor Henry fathered Siobhan's twins. I'm pulling for the father to be some rando. And I desperately hope that Bridget isn't pregnant. This show has too many kids as it is. Nothing ruins a good soap like too many damn babies! Although....I am pretty psyched to find out what Siobhan will name the girls. My guess is Siobhan and Siobhan.


Tyler can't be the father, but maybe Siobhan slept with NA Charlie/John What's-his-name while she was plotting her fake suicide.
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#4277

Ohmo

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 3:09 PM

Ringer

April 17

Spoiler


TVLine
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#4278

jenrising

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 9:33 PM

Spoiler


Spoiler

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#4279

TheSporkWielder

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 10:08 PM

Has the Fug been posted for episode 20 yet? Because this:

Apparently the twins' names are Dash and Becks, which I think are actually acronyms for DESIGNER ANDROID SON HELPER and BOY ELECTRONIC CHILD-KITING SYSTEM.


is genius.

Spoiler

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#4280

philippos42

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 12:10 AM

I had sort of dropped Ringer during the third episode, but came back this spring, and have been catching up. Maybe it works better with only a couple of days between episodes.

I admire the overlapping plots, and the ability to keep up the suspense and the swerves without pulling in nonsense "clues" & "twists" like X-Files or Alias. The plot is practically all coherent, even if it gets cheesy in the execution (and some stuff, like kidnapping Gemma, seemed really stupid at the time). I'd hate for this show to be seen as a failure.

It's definitely a suspense show, more than anything (with enough misunderstandings for a farce.) I'm impressed, and I was not real enthusiastic at the beginning.

Oh, and apparently Mike Colter's going to pop up on The Good Wife again. As for this show, I expect the producers are keeping Malcolm in their pocket for a future storyline.
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#4281

regardez

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 5:08 PM

When do we find out if it's cancelled? I mean, I'm sure it is, but I want to really know for sure. The season/series finale better not end in a cliffhanger. Do you think the writers knew if the show is cancelled?
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#4282

Whodunnit

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 5:48 PM

does the
Spoiler


Regardez Someone said that they don't find that out until May...
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#4283

Glory

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 8:13 AM

Okay, so I was watching the Sox game yesterday and a commercial said there would be an all new Ringer last night (Sunday night) at a special time. But my tivo only picked up "It's Called Improvising, Bitch."

Was there a new episode last night? And is there still a new episode tomorrow?
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#4284

Princess Aldrea

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 8:19 AM

Okay, so I was watching the Sox game yesterday and a commercial said there would be an all new Ringer last night (Sunday night) at a special time. But my tivo only picked up "It's Called Improvising, Bitch."

My TiVo was supposed to tape what it said was "It's Called Improvising, Bitch" and I set it up since I had to watch it online last week because of a basketball game. Then it promptly taped a basketball game instead.
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#4285

Glory

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 8:23 AM

Yeah, I had to watch it online last week, too, Princess Aldrea.
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#4286

TobinAlbers

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 11:24 AM

Because of this show I totally watched all of Fantastic Four on a random channel this weekend just because it had Ioan Gruffudd in it. He wasn't bad. The script definitely could've been better but he was great as Mr. Fantastic.

Count me in as one who hopes that this show somehow gets itself a reprieve as a shortened 13 ep second season so we can have some kind of resolution. Heck, 6-8 episodes would work, too. I just want some kind of resolution.
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#4287

ChelseaMcQ

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 2:15 PM

The show is up for EOnline's annual Save One Show vote.

Ringer's in 2nd place right now, round two.

Vote here.
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#4288

Gapowie

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 2:49 PM

My evil twin and I each voted for Ringer. Twice. Or possibly five times.
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#4289

RachelKM

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 3:07 PM

How is it that Ringer, Community, and Nikita are all on the chopping block? I hate the idea that only one can be saved.

I really hope this show gets renewed; it has been so much fun recently and there is so much I want to see happen that cannot possibly occur in just one more episode. But I hate the idea that if it is renewed it might be at the expense of the other two. Worst. Game. Of Musical Chairs. EVER!
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#4290

Hyjinx

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 5:11 PM

When do we find out if it's cancelled? I mean, I'm sure it is, but I want to really know for sure. The season/series finale better not end in a cliffhanger. Do you think the writers knew if the show is cancelled?


I don't know about when but SMG recently said that a lot would be revealed in the season finale-like 3 or 4 seasons' worth.
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