1252 replies to this topic

[TWoP Dietrich]

Does this show even have spoilers? People who have read the books presumably already know what's going to happen. Just in case, though, here's a thread for them. Spoiler tags are not necessary in this thread.

[Mormegil]

Not too spoilery but here's the Episode Titles.


Winter is Coming
The Kingsroad
Lord Snow
Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things
The Wolf and the Lion
A Golden Crown
You Win or You Die
The Pointy End
Baelor
Fire and Blood

[Azure Owl]

There’s one bit of news that’s a spoiler even to people who’ve read the books. Especially for people who’ve read the books:

According to GRRM, a character is killed in this 1st season of the series who does not die until the 3rd novel. Because of spoilers, he chose not to discuss it further (I tried!), but he did indicate it was a male character.

People have been wrecking their brains trying to figure out who it is. I for one have no idea.

Edited by Azure Owl, Apr 14, 2011 @ 9:06 PM.

[insanityproject]

A Golden Crown

This is already my favorite episode.

[ctas]

I'm seeing episodes 1 and 2 at a screening tonight and there's a q+a with Sean Bean, Harry Lloyd and Mark Addy afterwards. If I get any interesting spoilers I'll be sure to post them!

[avaleigh]

As much as I'm looking forward to the tourney episode, I suspect that Baelor is going to be THE episode for me this season. Not sure what it is about penultimate episodes but pretty much every show I've ever watched, whether it was The Sopranos, Mad Men, Deadwood or several other shows, all of the second to last episodes for each season delivered in a major way and based on the spoilers that I've read, this is the episode where the shit really hits the fan in King's Landing and I can't. fucking. wait.

If I get any interesting spoilers I'll be sure to post them!

Please do, ctas, and wow am I jealous. I'd love to be able to watch the first two episodes back to back. The Q&A sounds great too.
Are they asking questions from the audience or do they already have a list ready? Curious minds would love to know what question you'll ask if you end up having the opportunity.

[sueli769]

According to GRRM, a character is killed in this 1st season of the series who does not die until the 3rd novel. Because of spoilers, he chose not to discuss it further (I tried!), but he did indicate it was a male character.

I take it there is still the beheading at the end of this season?

Who dies in the third book?
Joffrey? Tywin? At least half of Arya's list?

[revelation]

Azure Owl said

People have been wrecking their brains trying to figure out who it is. I for one have no idea.

I think it is either Rast (a member of the Night's Watch), Lord Karstark (a Bannerman to the Starks) or Lord Hoster Tully (the Father of Catelyn Stark). I am going with Hoster Tully.

[Mormegil]

I take it there is still the beheading at the end of this season?

Who dies in the third book?
Joffrey? Tywin? At least half of Arya's list?

Yep, in Episode 9.

As to the person who dies two books too early it's a minor character, the three Revelation mentions are the most likely. Personally I think it's Rast who now dies when the Wights attack Castle Black replacing Ser Jeramy Rykker who dies in the book (but is AFAIK not in the show).

[ctas]

Apparently the death isn't a major character though so I doubt it'd be any of the names suggested by suieli769.

As for the screening: some interesting new scenes were added in, particularly an amazing one with Cat and Cersei where Lena Headey absolutely shone. They seemed to have removed Bran's dream plot (for those who have read the books), which I find perplexing.

Some fun remarks about working with the dogs who played the direwolves in the Q+A, mainly journalists were asking questions though so I didn't get a chance.

From someone there who'd seen episodes 1 through to 6, 6 is the one that ends with a big death (as guessed by the episode title) and overall I thought it was a fantastic presentation of the two episodes!


eta and the titles are just as brilliant as the hype, maybe better. Absolutely incredible to see on a big screen!

Edited by ctas, Apr 16, 2011 @ 7:37 AM.

[revelation]

ctas, given that you have seen the first 2 episodes, do you think that the show will be a hit? Do you think the first episodes are good enough to attract newbies to the story and keep them watching the whole series?

Edited by revelation, Apr 16, 2011 @ 10:29 AM.

[Mormegil]

They seemed to have removed Bran's dream plot (for those who have read the books), which I find perplexing.

Odd, I thought Ran of Westeros said the dream was still there though tonned down, plus the 3 eyed crow has been used in promo material.

Maybe I read it wrong or possibly the DVD screeners sent out were different to what they are showing at the cinema screenings (I presume that's where you've seen it).

[Barbarossa]

Maybe it was just moved back? At least I hope thats what it is.

[Mormegil]

Seems Ep 2 ends with Bran waking up so the dream could well be flashbacked to in Ep3 (Ran saw thew first 6 eps).

[ctas]

I was expecting it with a lot of lingering shots on comatose Bran but absolutely nada in episode 2, which I thought was strange. It could've been moved further ahead in the series though.

[Marq DeCarabas]

In the media thread someone posted an article that said

Oh, and eventually, it turns out that Robert's Rebellion against the "Mad King" may have occurred under false pretenses. Sound familiar?

I've read the books, but i have no idea what he's talking about. I thought maybe he meant Lysa lying that the Lannisters poisoned Jon Arryn, other than that no idea.

[revelation]

Marq DeCarabas said

I've read the books, but i have no idea what he's talking about. I thought maybe he meant Lysa lying that the Lannisters poisoned Jon Arryn, other than that no idea.

There is a theory that Lyanna Stark fell in love with Rhaegar and eloped with him. Since the whole basis of Robert's Rebellion against Aerys was the abduction of Lyanna then it all hinges on whether Lyanna went willingly or not. Essentially it's part of the R+L = J theory.

[Danny Franks]

I've read the books, but i have no idea what he's talking about. I thought maybe he meant Lysa lying that the Lannisters poisoned Jon Arryn, other than that no idea.

I can only think he's talking about Lyanna. Robert absolutely believes that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her, leading to her death. Yet Ned's POV in the books leads us to realize that it was far more complex than that.

I do believe that Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar of her own free will, and that Ned knows this. Which is why he doesn't seem to hate Rhaegar, and is so uncomfortable talking about the whole thing with Robert.

Unfortunately, when Brandon Stark went to Kings Landing demanding answers, neither Rhaegar nor Lyanna were there to give him any answers. But Aerys was.

So, Brandon and Lord Rickard end up dead, along with the men who accompanied Brandon, and their fathers. Aerys demands that Ned and Robert be handed over to him. Ned because he was a Stark, and Robert, presumably, because he was betrothed to Lyanna. Jon Arryn refused and they went to war instead (which, by the way, is something that is often overlooked. I wish we'd been able to meet Jon Arryn, this man who was prepared to rise in open rebellion against his rightful king to protect two young men in his care).

So, if not for Lyanna, Aerys' madness might have gone unchecked for the rest of his natural life. But even if Brandon, Ned and Robert had known that she went willingly, they might have gone to war anyway.

Edited by Danny Franks, Apr 16, 2011 @ 5:32 PM.

[revelation]

Danny Franks said

So, Brandon and Lord Rickard end up dead, along with the men who accompanied Brandon, and their fathers.

One of the men who accompanied Brandon was Elbert Arryn. He was the nephew and heir to Jon Arryn. He was killed with Brandon. It is not so surprising that after hearing about his nephew, Jon Arryn then rose up in rebellion and refused to hand over Ned and Robert.

[Azure Owl]

So, Brandon and Lord Rickard end up dead, along with the men who accompanied Brandon, and their fathers. Aerys demands that Ned and Robert be handed over to him.

This was the real cause of the Rebellion. Whether or not Lyanna was abducted or went of her own free will is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is that Brandon thought it was abduction and he went looking for Rhaegar.

It was Aerys’s monstrous and murderous overreaction that caused the Rebellion, not Lyanna’s abduction/elopement.

[Egeria]

I do believe that Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar of her own free will, and that Ned knows this. Which is why he doesn't seem to hate Rhaegar, and is so uncomfortable talking about the whole thing with Robert.

I think he's also uncomfortable talking about it because the danger isn't over. Presumably, Ned is not a good liar (little taste for it) and if he slips, Jon Snow's life would probably be in danger. It's mentioned several times in the books that Robert hates all Targaryen's and wants to see them dead, even the children. After 14 years, he still feels the same way and is willing to kill a pregnant Dany.

I always thought it was odd that Ned wouldn't tell Cat at least. I wonder if Lyanna made him promise not to tell a single soul the truth. I also wonder how the truth will ever come out since every one who knows seems to be dead. All speculation, of course, but I will be shocked if John is not a Targaryen. I've thought for awhile now that Dany and Jon might rule together in the end.

[Marq DeCarabas]

Thanks a lot if someone has an idea of which chapter/book that was.. (I read through the books really fast in order to be ready for the show.) I thought the whole thing was weird about promise me.

That being said Aerys was mad. It's possible sooner or later someone may have done something, (likely his son) but to say Aerys needed to be removed is no lie.

[avaleigh]

I always thought it was odd that Ned wouldn't tell Cat at least. I wonder if Lyanna made him promise not to tell a single soul the truth.

I agree that it's odd that he didn't feel that he could trust Catelyn with the secret, so I can only think that this is because Lyanna made him swear not to tell anyone. I certainly think Jon had the right to know and IMO Ned only kept this from him because Lyanna asked him to.

I also wonder how the truth will ever come out since every one who knows seems to be dead. All speculation, of course, but I will be shocked if John is not a Targaryen. I've thought for awhile now that Dany and Jon might rule together in the end.

Doesn't Varys know the truth about Jon? He's the only person I can think of who would be able to tell unless we find out that whoever attended to Lyanna told somebody. Or maybe the info will be pieced together through more than one character? Maybe Ned told Sansa, Bran, or Arya something that they didn't make much of at the time but pieced together with _______ piece of information makes it all come together.
And yeah, Jon and Dany are definitely going to come together at some point. 'A Song of Ice and Fire'?

It's mentioned several times in the books that Robert hates all Targaryen's and wants to see them dead, even the children. After 14 years, he still feels the same way and is willing to kill a pregnant Dany.

Not to mention that he'd be super steamed that Jon was Lyanna's since he'd probably be convinced that it was rape even if Ned said otherwise. Either that or he'd be furious that Lyanna chose the very married Rhaegar over him. Either way Robert's reaction wouldn't have been good for Jon. On the third hand though, now that I'm thinking about it, I actually think that it's possible that Ned could have persuaded Robert to allow Jon to go to the Wall by playing on Robert's love for both Ned and Lyanna. I think the idea of being able to do one last thing for Lyanna might have appealed to him.

[revelation]

Ned's friend Howland Reed was there with Ned, so he knows the truth. It is possible he told his children, Meera and Jojen Reed who are currently with Bran Stark.

Also Jon Snow had a wet nurse called Wylla, who was very likely there when Ned found Lyanna. If she was there, then she knows the truth. Wylla is widely suspected to be Jon Snow's mother but this is a cover story. Lord Edric Dayne (who is only 12) tells Arya that his own wet nurse, a House Dayne servant called Wylla, has claimed to be Jon Snow's mother. King Robert believes Wylla is Jon's mother.

There are extensive discussions about this whole theory on Westeros.org.

[Still Ill]

Yes, it's strongly implied Meera and Jojen Reed know and are surpised to find that Bran has no clue. I imagine there will be some kind of 'Heart of Darkness' trip taken by Jon to find Greywater watch and Howland.

I totally believe that R+L = J and a recent interview with the producers suggest that George has reveled this to be correct.
I can't imagine Daeny staying in Westeros. I imagine she'll return to Essos. Interesting that idea that Varys knows.

It always did seem strange to me that Ned would not tell Cat. Surley after the years and children they had together she knew he could trust her. It would have eased her mind about the infidelity and allowing her to accept Jon. I guess is it dangerous information.

Sorry if this is entering into book speculation.

Edited by Still Ill, Apr 17, 2011 @ 6:32 AM.

[Jalyn]

The thing is, Aerys didn't really overreact to Brandon. Brandon came riding into Kings Landing proclaiming that he was going to kill the heir to the throne, most kings would have executed him for the offense. The method of execution was heinous and unforgivable and starts Jaime on his eventual path, but Aerys was well within his rights as king, at least until his treatment of Rickard. That's at least half of what makes this series amazing to me, even the most insane and awful people have a legitimate claim to have done the right thing while the most righteous have stepped wrong.
Also, yeah, the Reeds have the answers to Jon's parentage, if we ever get to see it.

[Tcost]

Jojen and Meera might have this information, or Jon might have to seek out their father at Greywater Watch, yes, but my money says that Mel will see the truth in her fires and will share this with Jon.

[Azure Owl]

The thing is, Aerys didn't really overreact to Brandon. Brandon came riding into Kings Landing proclaiming that he was going to kill the heir to the throne, most kings would have executed him for the offense.

He killed him without trial. He killed all the members of his party without trial. Then he killed all of their fathers without trial. Then there’s the nightmarish way Lord Rickard Stark and Brandon were killed. And he demanded the heads of Robert and Eddard. I call any one of those things an overreaction. Add them all together and you get a monstrous overkill.

Edited by Azure Owl, Apr 18, 2011 @ 9:05 AM.

[baha0007]

Yup - the Lyanna thing was just the spark that set it off. It is strongly implied that Aerys had been mad and a TERRIBLE King for years and the whole country was ripe for rebellion. Given that 5 of the 7 great houses rose up in rebellion (Stark, Baratheon, Tully, Arryn and eventually Lannister) and one more was kept only in line because of hostages (Elia Martell and her children), it is extremely likely that the Targaryn deposition was just a matter of when, and not if.

Rhaegar Targaryn is often held up as an idealized perfect King, but given his inability or unwillingness to control his father's excesses and the irresponsibility of his taking Lyanna (abduction or elopement, take your pick) I have to wonder about that too.

[Jalyn]

Rhaegar did see what Aerys had become and told Jaime, when he left to fight, that he'd take care of the Aerys problem once he returned. Instead, he died on the Trident. I don't think that we know enough of what happened with Lyanna to judge his actions there yet. There is still a theory hanging out there, I think, that Benjen went to the wall as penance because he screwed up something in the Lyanna/Rhaegar situation.
I wasn't in any way suggesting that Aerys was a good king or shouldn't have been deposed. My point is just that Brandon's idiocy was as much a factor in what happened as anything else. Even Robert would have put someone to death had they come into town claiming they were going to kill Joffery. It's just a really bad idea to announce that you're going to kill the heir to the throne.
It's strongly implied that Aerys sucked as a king for the lords - it's interesting that later in the series, you do start to hear the commoners note that things were much better when he was king. Whether that's simple nostalgia talking or the fact that the horrors Aerys performed didn't trickle down until the rebellion, I'm not sure. Of course, no one in Kings Landing ever found out exactly how awful his kingship could have been for THEM.