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Game of Thrones Television vs. Book (may contain spoilers)


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#11671

Hecate7

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Posted Yesterday, 01:24 AM

I so agree with mooglefyre, here. I cannot see Arya ever getting interested romantically in anyone, male or female, not ever.

 

As for matching Sansa with people, Sandor Clegane might be OK, but he is even older than Tyrion. He's old enough that when Gregor was a boy they fought over toys. Gregor was old enough to rape and kill Elia Targaryen, when Tyrion was just a toddler, and Sandor can't be much younger than Gregor, if toys were an issue for them. I see Gendry as a likelier match for Sansa, simply because of an odd little thought Jaime had, while looking for Sansa, that he hoped she was settled down with some blacksmith.

 

"If the gods are good, she'll forget she was a Stark. She'll wed some burly blacksmith or fat-faced innkeep, fill his house with children, and never need to fear that some knight might come along to smash their heads against a wall."

 

Then again, if there's one thing we've learned about GRRM's world, it's that the Gods there are not good at all.


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#11672

mooglefyre

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Posted Yesterday, 01:55 AM

I have never heard the idea of Sansa with Gendry, but now I kind of love it, partly because it would enrage all the shippers at once. I think it's more likely she will make a political match than anything else. Which still leaves Gendry as a possibility if his Robert's-bastard status ever becomes important.

 

Much like how some people can't past Jaime tossing Bran out a window, Sansa telling Cersei Ned's plans, or Catelyn's treatment of Jon, I can't get past the Hound's first interaction with Sansa. He deliberately terrifies her with stories of his childhood trauma, then threatens to kill her if she tells anybody. It just really bothered me for some reason. Also while I can forgive his killing Mycah on king's orders, I can't really forgive his cruelty/gloating about it. I know he's a popular character but so far as I am concerned he can stay either dead or on the Quiet Isle, his story ending there.

 

I like him better in the show, and his adventures with Arya have me finding him quite entertaining, though.


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#11673

My Way

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Posted Yesterday, 07:30 AM

I wish that scene could have been in the show since it would have made clear Jaime's "she's safe in Kings Landing" line the B.S. it is.

They did make it clear that she wasn't safe around Joffrey but I don't know if Jaime himself has seen enough of their dynamic to come to that conclusion. Tyrion, Tywin, Cersei and obviously Sansa have. Brienne and Jaime probably don't know about Joffrey's creepy fascination with her. He's felt like he owns her for what a year now?

 

The Arya/Gendry thing always confused me because to me it was obviously a Jon Snow replacement, not a romantic thing.

I don't ship many people in this show, but man I do ship that hard and I don't think it's a brotherly relationship. It's definately not on Gendry's side. Arya is too young, is the main problem (and that she is batshit crazy assasin at this point) but she will grow up and I like Arya, so I hope she grows up into a normal noncrazy person at somepoint.  Gendry knows how crazy she is and likes her anyway. I just like their vibe. (but Jaime/Brienne is probably my only other ship). Also, I could see a grown up, non crazy arya and gendry happily ruling the country and ruling them well  or doing Jaime's 'settled with a blacksmith' story in some alternate universe.

 

But I haven't shipped Sansa with anyone. I think she and show Tyrion could have made a marriage of it if they decided to, but that's kaput now. Book Sansa would not work at all. I think Tyrion started on a high note, so his development has been downward (maybe tear him down to build him up?), but Jaime started low so there was no where to go but up. I have really loved Jaime's story in the books.

 

Sansa and Gendry would probably make me throw things at the wall. I don't see them together at all. These aren't really romantic books, though, so shipping is almost bound to be disappointing.


Edited by My Way, Yesterday, 11:25 AM.

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#11674

FurryFury

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Posted Yesterday, 08:16 AM

I don't think Arya can never ever be in a romantic relationship, because, well, people grow up and change (shocker!) I don't think she'll stay an emotionless assassin forever. Yes, she's probably scarred for life, but even broken people can be rebuilt. I still hold out a hope she'll reunite with at least some of her siblings at the end.

 

Arya/Gendry doesn't bother me at all, because it's not creepy, and not really sexual. It's the inherent creepiness of such relationships as Sansa/Sandor, Sansa/Tyrion and Sansa/Littlefinger that makes me want to barf. I don't really ship anyone in the books, GRRM only seems interested in subverting traditional romances, so the majority of them seem to me either unhealthy or doomed.


Edited by FurryFury, Yesterday, 08:19 AM.

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#11675

mooglefyre

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Posted Yesterday, 11:19 AM

I also hope Arya will reunite with at least one of her siblings at some point. Arya/Gendry doesn't creep me out--I just find it a little baffling, and I  really like their relationship as a non-romantic thing. I definitely see his attentions to her as brotherly, not romantic, and that's unusual and nice (for me) to see.

 

With regard to Arya and romantic relationships--I just don't want to see it in the books/show. If she survives to the end of the story, I feel like there are so many other things about her story that will be interesting, cool and unique. There are also lots of other characters where romantic arcs will probably be part of their stories; I'd like to see at least one female character *not* have that be a part of their story. I really like the idea of it being meeting, for instance, Sansa or Jon again that brings her back to herself, if something does.

 

But, alternate interpretations of characters is one of my favourite things about these books, really, so I'm not surprised others see it differently!


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#11676

Aysa

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Posted Yesterday, 11:42 AM

I kind of always wanted Sansa to end up with Willas afterall. I think she could have been happy in Highgarden and if everything we've heard about Willas is indeed true, he'd be a good husband.

Alas, I doubt it will happen now. I'm not attached to any ship in the books really, but I also think Sansa will end up with someone and that prospect kind of fills me with dread if I look at the possible candidates. I actually kind of hope that Harry the Heir will be a decent enough guy afterall and that he may fall in love with her and they'll be a badass team... or something. He wasn't that much older than her, right? 


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#11677

FurryFury

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Posted Yesterday, 11:52 AM

Joffrey also wasn't much older than her. For some reason, I have a feeling Harry will either die soon or will be a bad guy. After all, nothing good ever happens to Sansa. Well, not that other character fare any better...


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#11678

Hecate7

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Posted Yesterday, 12:01 PM

People do grow and change, and broken people can be rebuilt, but this isn't exactly a culture rich in resources for repair. The person has to want to change, and Arya has absolutely no reason to want that. The world she left behind wasn't safe. The people she left behind--Sansa, Cat, Bran, Rickon--had failed to protect her, and she wasn't close to them in the first place. She was close to Ned, and he's dead. She was close to Jon Snow, and they said their goodbyes. She was very close to Syrio, and he died protecting her. She became close to Gendry, and then he ended the relationship. Yoren died. Lommy died. And so on. Arya has learned that people die or go away, and you may as well not get too attached.

 

Arya is getting the opposite of what she'd need, to reverse her assassin training. And she's not a reluctant, joyless assassin looking for a way out. She loves this life. It makes her happy. Her life boils down to a list of people she wants revenge for, and the people she wants revenge on. It's hard to see how that could change.

 

Shipping someone sexually is sexual, and so pretty much any shipping of Arya is creepy. Doesn't matter if it's Arya/Gendry, Sansa/Sandor, or whatever, a ship is a ship. Nonsexual relationships don't require shipping. Obviously Arya has replaced Jon Snow with Gendry in her mind, but that doesn't mean it couldn't turn into more. At first Arya/anybody was creepy because they were too old for her. Now it's creepy because of what she is. Arya's assassin training does mean it couldn't turn into more. The partner can't know who she is, and is a sitting duck if the Faceless Men figure out what she's doing. If she's ever reunited with Gendry it will be because he's her assignment, or because she's disguised as someone he likes, in order to accomplish the assassination of some other person. I have mixed feelings about her being reunited with her siblings, because the same thing holds true--if she's reunited with them, it will most likely mean that she is sent to kill them, or someone they're with. So I'm not eager to see her reunited with Gendry or with anybody else, although I enjoy her POV's and see her as being Last Person Standing, should it come to that.


Edited by Hecate7, Yesterday, 12:05 PM.

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#11679

FurryFury

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Posted Yesterday, 12:10 PM

Shipping someone sexually is sexual, and so pretty much any shipping of Arya is creepy. Doesn't matter if it's Arya/Gendry, Sansa/Sandor, or whatever, a ship is a ship. 

 

I wasn't talking about shipping, I was talking about canon relationships, and for me, there was nothing creepy between Arya and Gendry. Them being much closer in age than Sansa and any of her "love interests" (shudder) probably helps. And, well, I suspect most people who ship Arya with anyone do it with an aged-up, future version. At least I hope so. 

 

The person has to want to change, and Arya has absolutely no reason to want that. 

 

Actually, no, the person doesn't have to want to change to do it. Jaime changed a lot since the beginning of the story. Theon did. Sansa. Dany. Hell, almost everyone, especially the younger generation. Had they all wanted this? I doubt that.

Anyway, the most important part for me is that Arya's a child. Not even a teenager, I believe. I don't consider her character fully formed at this point, nor do I truly see her as 100% responsible for her crimes. This may change yet, of course. But so far, she hasn't yet crossed the moral event horizon, at least for me.

 

Wyllas is apparently even older than Littlefinger

 

Really? Why do you think so?


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#11680

kinomanka

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Posted Yesterday, 02:30 PM

Wyllas is apparently even older than Littlefinger

 

 

In the books he is a few years younger than Littlefinger.


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#11681

benteen

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Posted Yesterday, 06:18 PM

I wouldn't rule out Arya ever having a romantic relationship.  Things change as one gets older.  Though I can kind of see her as a wandering King's Justice as she gets over, traveling through Westeros and Essos looking to right wrongs and meet out justice.


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#11682

mooglefyre

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Posted Yesterday, 08:14 PM

 

I wasn't talking about shipping, I was talking about canon relationships, and for me, there was nothing creepy between Arya and Gendry. Them being much closer in age than Sansa and any of her "love interests" (shudder) probably helps. And, well, I suspect most people who ship Arya with anyone do it with an aged-up, future version. At least I hope so

 

I think most do, but there are definitely people who think that Gendry had romantic/sexual feelings for 9/10 year old Arya, so...not all of them? Are they closer in age in the book? I think they might be, but Arya is also younger. Whereas on the show, Arya's a couple of years older, but the actor who plays Gendry looks early 20s so it's...harder for me to see it as not weird. Sure, it could be OK as a future thing, but I don't find it an especially compelling idea compared to all the other potential Arya stories that might be told.

 

If Arya does change in the last two books to something more positive than "cold blooded assassin"--if she finds herself again--I hope that it is due to finding a family member again. 

 

Looking at all the characters, there's not really much likelihood of traditional, happy romances here. I do think it would be unrealistic for every single character to end up miserable and for none of them to end up in even somewhat functional relationships, though. Really just as unrealistic as for everyone to end up happy. I am not sure what characters that might be, though. I like Jaime and Brienne but can't see a way for them to actually be together in canon. Dany's love interests are a parade of disasters (I actually like that about her story, cause really not many of us made awesome love choices as teenagers). I don't particularly want to see a romance arc play out on the pages, but *some* surviving characters should end up with someone, I'd think.


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#11683

Hecate7

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Posted Yesterday, 08:32 PM

I like Arya, so I hope she grows up into a normal noncrazy person at somepoint.

 

I enjoy her POV's, but I cannot imagine someone who killed 6 people before the age of 15, really growing up to be a normal, noncrazy person. And unless the entire organization of Faceless Men falls apart, I don't think they're going to let her just walk away, either.

 

I don't hold her 100% responsible for her crimes, either. Good point about Jaime changing, but actually he DID want to change. He wanted Brienne of Tarth's respect. Theon didn't really want to turn into Reek, but he did have a powerful motivation to do so--he wanted to live. Dany wanted very much to change, to become a Khaleesi and a Queen and stop bearing the brunt of the abuse of powerful men like Khal Drogo and Viserys. She began as a frightened victim. Everyone in that situation wants to change. A lot. Sansa didn't ask to change, and in many ways she has not. She is still the same girl who decided whether or not to tell the truth about Joffrey, back on the King's Road. All that's really changed, is her level of skill. These people, like Arya, changed because they wanted to adapt to and survive powerful external pressures. There are no powerful external pressures pushing Arya back. I suppose that could change, although honestly this doesn't look like the sort of world in which that happens.


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#11684

Hecate7

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Posted Yesterday, 08:41 PM

Who could end up in a happy couple? Probably not Arya, Tyrion, Danaerys, or Stannis. Certainly not most Lannisters. Possibly Gendry, Brienne, Sansa, Jaime (happy but not normal or average,) Jon Snow, Rickon, or the Reed kids. Any one of the Tyrells, probably. I guess it really depends on your definition of a happy couple.


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#11685

My Way

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Posted Yesterday, 09:42 PM

And, well, I suspect most people who ship Arya with anyone do it with an aged-up, future version. At least I hope so?

That is definitely the way I feel. Arya and gentry split up(I wouldn't go so far as to say he "left her"-I think it's more complicated than that). I have a feeling arya is going to get aged up here at some point. I really enjoyed them as friends but did not the relationship as a Sibling or romantic at this point. But I do ship a grow up gendry and arya.

I will say just because she's an assassin doesn't mean that I she meets with her family or gendry that she will be on a job with them. She could easily come back for other reasons. She is still a child and can grow and change a lot.

I am trying to think back over her kills now. I don't think having to kill will destroy everyone forever. Aryas reason to change could really be anything at this point. But I honestly have no idea what kind of ending grrm will end up with!

Edited by My Way, Yesterday, 09:48 PM.

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#11686

benteen

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Posted Yesterday, 10:06 PM

Arya will never become a "Lady" in the Sansa vein.  But maybe she can at least back off her path of killing.

 

I don't want to see Tyrion and Sansa end up together (that could possibly happen) but I would like to see them end things on good terms.


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