Jump to content

Game of Thrones Television vs. Book (may contain spoilers)


  • Please log in to reply

11681 replies to this topic

#4561

benteen

benteen

    Stalker

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 3:31 PM

Not only the vast amount but wasn't the fire itself more intense because no one realized that magic was returning to the world too?
  • 0

#4562

Blue32

Blue32

    Fanatic

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 4:22 PM

Fairley nailed it.

I've been really impressed with Fairley in the role. It's hard to imagine anyone else playing Catelyn. I remember reading somewhere that Jennifer Ehle was originally cast, which I have trouble picturing; I tend to think Ehle's version of Catelyn would have been closer to Book!Cat, though (more refined, maybe?).

I was looking at an infographic of most of the actors with GoT speaking roles in Season 1 and 2, and there were something like 72 of them! Now, granted, a good chunk of those characters have been killed off or won't be showing up in Season 2 (Robert Baratheon, Lysa, Benjen, Yoren, etc.), but holy crap. If the non-readers aren't hopelessly confused by the mountains of characters, hats off to the writers. I suppose it helps that the action is limited to several different locations, which have fewer than 10 important characters in any one place, but man, I would not want to be attempting to adapt this shit. We haven't even gotten to the Dornish characters, the other Tullys, or the other Greyjoys.

I actually sat down and made up a list of the recurring, speaking-role characters in Season 2, and I'm pretty sure the list passed 50. The funny thing about the series--both the books and the TV show--is that the number of characters in play kind of sneaks up on you. Back when ASOIAF was just a book series, I used to joke about the ridiculousness of the character index at the back of each book listing hundreds of characters. I don't know what's worse, though: knowing that there are hundreds of characters to keep track of, or knowing that by virtue of having read the books so many times, it's a relatively simple matter to keep track of all of them! (GRRM does seem to keep adding piles of new characters, though, to the point where I'm actually looking forward to the Otherpocalypse, because it will trim the cast considerably.)

One neat costuming touch I noticed: Joffrey almost never wears the Baratheon black and gold. He's always wearing red and gold (or purple in one scene, a colour traditionally associated with royalty).

Edited by Blue32, May 6, 2012 @ 4:40 PM.

  • 0

#4563

miasohn

miasohn

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 6:02 PM

Not only the vast amount but wasn't the fire itself more intense because no one realized that magic was returning to the world too?

I wonder if they're going to outright state this? To me, it's fairly obvious, what with the White Walkers, dragons, Bran's special dream powers, etc.

I would not want to be attempting to adapt this shit. We haven't even gotten to the Dornish characters, the other Tullys, or the other Greyjoys.

Heh. Yeah, it's out-of-control really. They've done a fantastic job for the most part. I worry that because it will only get worse that some of our favorites will be removed for the sake of story-telling. I keep telling myself to be okay with this, that there's really no earthly way for everything to be included.

Speaking of things hard to include, how do you think the Blackwater Bay scenes will be shown. Obviously budget constraints won't allow for a Master and Commander type naval extravaganza (sigh, but imagine if it could). Still, they have to give us something, no?
  • 0

#4564

agora

agora

    Fanatic

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 6:18 PM

Not only the vast amount but wasn't the fire itself more intense because no one realized that magic was returning to the world too?

I wonder if they're going to outright state this? To me, it's fairly obvious, what with the White Walkers, dragons, Bran's special dream powers, etc.

I guess it makes sense for those in power not to believe in it, if only because no one likes to acknowledge a superior power than the one they have. Not even Stannis.

I'm thinking the only reason Daenerys believes in magic it's because she has experienced directly.

Edited by agora, May 6, 2012 @ 6:51 PM.

  • 0

#4565

Anguissette

Anguissette

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 6:21 PM

Speaking of things hard to include, how do you think the Blackwater Bay scenes will be shown. Obviously budget constraints won't allow for a Master and Commander type naval extravaganza (sigh, but imagine if it could). Still, they have to give us something, no?


I read somewhere that the Battle of Blackwater itself will take up at least 15 minutes of the episode. They knew, after skimping on the battles last season, at they'd have to show us the goods for this season. I am ok with this approach thus far.
  • 0

#4566

miasohn

miasohn

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 6:43 PM

That is good to hear. I don't mind having to allude to things for the most part but some things are just too badass to let go.
  • 0

#4567

cwaldo

cwaldo

    Fanatic

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 7:03 PM

I wonder if they're going to outright state this? To me, it's fairly obvious, what with the White Walkers, dragons, Bran's special dream powers, etc.


After it looks like Jon wargs into Ghost, Quorin gives his speech that "The Cold Winds are Rising" and that there is magic in the land again. Since "Cold Winds are Rising" is part of the advertising campaign, I think we'll get some version of this speech.
  • 0

#4568

quidditch424

quidditch424

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 9:11 PM

This episode is pretty pivotal in terms of book/television changes because it makes some pretty major changes. I wonder how the rest of the Theon/Winterfell take over storyline will play out since 1) there will no longer be the parley with Ser Rodrik; 2) Osha is the one who took off with the Starks (meaning no Reeds or Reeds in Season 3?) and 3) now everyone knows upfront that Ramsay Bolton is going to "reclaim" Winterfell.

Also hated the "stolen dragons" twist. Dany was at least smart enough in the books to always have one of her bloodriders guarding her dragons.
  • 1

#4569

Blue32

Blue32

    Fanatic

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 9:13 PM

I'm kind of annoyed that TV!Osha had to seduce Theon to secure their escape. You're watching HBO! and all that, but ugh.

Attempted gang rape of Sansa was toned up from the books big-time. I kept expecting the Hound to show up before things got too out of hand, but it just kept going on...and on...and on. As I suspected, the back half is going to have all the important Sandor/Sansa interaction. There were two Sansa scenes shown in the preview: her waking up in bed (period scene) and a scene where the Hound is telling her "You'll be glad of the hateful things I do someday" or similar.

The inclusion of the Shae/Sansa scene is interesting. Sansa never liked Shae in the books and was disinclined to trust anyone enough to reveal that she hated Joffrey, and TV!Sansa seems to have gotten attached rather quickly and seems to trust Shae enough to tell her her true feelings about Joffrey, both of which Shae is actively discouraging. Another hint that Shae is actually on somebody else's payroll as a spy? (Other than Tyrion's, that is.)

The fact that all the nobles were on the ground and not on horseback as in the books made the riot scene that much more intense. Kudos to everyone involved in translating that to the screen, because that was awesome. They did a great job of capturing the craziness and chaos.

I think I'm going to like TV!Ygritte. She's already annoying me less than she did in the books. Rose Leslie and Kit Harington have good chemistry.

Edited by Blue32, May 6, 2012 @ 9:22 PM.

  • 0

#4570

Shiny Objects

Shiny Objects

    Couch Potato

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 9:25 PM

Great episode, and as I suspected Ramsay is hanging out at the Dreadfort, just like in the books. I don't know what they're going to do about the fact that Roose said Ramsay could be there within a fortnight (or a month? can't remember exactly what he said) because we have no Ramsay this season, but he does in fact exist. So that's good.

1) there will no longer be the parley with Ser Rodrik; 2) Osha is the one who took off with the Starks (meaning no Reeds or Reeds in Season 3?) and 3) now everyone knows upfront that Ramsay Bolton is going to "reclaim" Winterfell.


I guess he could parley with Maester Luwin, looks like he'll be alive for a little while. Osha took off with the Starks but they could still meet the Reeds on the road somewhere. Ramsay/Roose reclaiming Winterfell is a little thorny though, I guess. In the book it was like two double-crosses in one, Ramsay double-crossing Theon but also the Boltons double-crossing the Starks ("Save the Freys and burn the rest," etc., which was part of the whole RW conspiracy).
  • 0

#4571

Lila82

Lila82

    Fanatic

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 9:27 PM

So I guessing Pyat Pree kidnapped the dragons and will lead us into something at the House of the Undying? It would save money on CGI because Drogon could only appear at the end and burn the place down, but I don't love the change.

Or really understand why Jeyne Westerling is now foreign nobility from Volantis. I don't mind the focus on their relationship, but why change the backstory? Robb marrying a Lannister bannerman's daughter was a double insult to the Freys; I just don't get it.

Every time Ygritte opened her mouth, they teased us with a "you know nothing Jon Snow." When she started in about how stupid he is and went back to sleep...tease!

Dany's storyline really feels disconnected in the show!verse. Was she this much of a petulant teenager in the books? I don't remember her being so whiny or sulky. She totally deserved that awesome smackdown, but did she learn nothing from Viserys? Ridiculous threats in strange lands never work out well for Targaryens...
  • 0

#4572

Colonel Green

Colonel Green

    Stalker

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 9:31 PM

The Arya/Tywin scenes are a really, really good addition to the series, I must say.

The show has tended to tone down the rougher actions of a lot of the characters, but the death of Ser Rodrik actually makes Theon look worse (though it makes sense to use a well-known figure like him instead of some nameless septon). I actually liked Rodrik's death here better; more dignified for the old guy.
  • 0

#4573

Anguissette

Anguissette

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 9:32 PM

So I guessing Pyat Pree kidnapped the dragons and will lead us into something at the House of the Undying?


That's definitely the vibe I got. I'm intrigued by the changes. At least it gives Dany something to do! Do you think we'll get a Barristan cameo in the final episode?
  • 0

#4574

kitaweta22

kitaweta22

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 9:43 PM

I have overall like all the changes they had to make for the sake of storytelling but it will really be a shame if we never see the Reeds. I understand bring in two more characters in this cast with so many is difficult to justify but I do think they added a lot to Bran's story. And I'm not feeling Talisa/Jeyne at all. I don't know if it's the actress or how the character is written but something about her isn't doing it for me. Ygritte on the other hand really nailed it. She is the Ygritte I pictured from the books
  • 0

#4575

Colonel Green

Colonel Green

    Stalker

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 9:45 PM

I expect so. I wonder if they're going to try and keep any mystery around that, though I don't see how that would be possible (I kind of want him to be wearing a super-fake beard).

Also, after this episode, while I reserve the right to feel sorry for him later, I'm eager to see Theon get acquainted with the business end of a flaying knife.
  • 0

#4576

Anguissette

Anguissette

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 9:48 PM

(I kind of want him to be wearing a super-fake beard).


Well... the actor has had a year to start rocking a natural one. I agree, though, we will know up front who he is - ahhhh, the magic of television.

I'm eager to see Theon get acquainted with the business end of a flaying knife.


Reek, Reek, it rhymes with weak...
  • 0

#4577

LanceM

LanceM

    Couch Potato

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 9:50 PM

So I guessing Pyat Pree kidnapped the dragons and will lead us into something at the House of the Undying?


Yep. She finds out the dragons are in the House of undying and has to go in and get them. That seems the most logical outcome.

I am looking forward to Asha showing up to Winterfell with Theon's reinforcements. Heh.
  • 0

#4578

TrininisaScorp

TrininisaScorp

    Couch Potato

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 10:14 PM

Dany's storyline really feels disconnected in the show!verse. Was she this much of a petulant teenager in the books? I don't remember her being so whiny or sulky.


Lila82, I'm glad I read back a little before I posted, as I have the same question. She's sooo entitled. I loved the Spice Merchant "keep it moving, bitch" speech. Being super spoiled at this point, I kept thinking during her whining "THIS is who survives thru the latest book?!". Can't wait for the book folks to enlighten us!

My hubby and I were having the "experienced executioner vs man who sentenced" conversation...after that awful Theon butchering of Ser R (seriously man, put a little effin' muscle in it...must you be a fuck up AT EVERYTHING?), he was on my side of "experienced executioner".

Edited by TrininisaScorp, May 6, 2012 @ 10:15 PM.

  • 0

#4579

cwaldo

cwaldo

    Fanatic

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 10:18 PM

Looks like Irri really is dead. Damn. You know, this really pisses me off. There are so few people of color on the show and they had to go and kill one that is actually still alive in the books? Really? It just feels like such a slap in the face to those friends who really identified with Irri. It pisses me off because it will be dismissed as she's not that important, it shakes up the storyline, blah blah blah. They could have just as easily have killed Doreah, who IS actually dead in the books.
  • 1

#4580

Eegah

Eegah

    Stalker

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 10:24 PM

Damn, Doreah's actress must have one hell of a good agent, given that they've now killed Dany's horse, Rakharro, AND Irri in place of her. And all for hardly any screen time anyway.

I was pretty pleased to see them come up with a good reason for Arya not to use one of her deaths on Tywin after putting him in Harrenhal: her first was just to see if Jaqen was for real, the second was forced on her by circumstance, and with only one left she'll be wanting more than just him when she realizes the opportunity she has.
  • 1

#4581

BadAndyMk3

BadAndyMk3

    Video Archivist

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 10:25 PM

Lila82, I'm glad I read back a little before I posted, as I have the same question. She's sooo entitled. I loved the Spice Merchant "keep it moving, bitch" speech. Being super spoiled at this point, I kept thinking during her whining "THIS is who survives thru the latest book?!". Can't wait for the book folks to enlighten us!


That's pretty much how she is in the books. She will TAKE what is HERS! ...Rawr!

I was pretty pleased to see them come up with a good reason for Arya not to use one of her deaths on Tywin after putting him in Harrenhal: her first was just to see if Jaqen was for real, the second was forced on her by circumstance, and with only one left she'll be wanting more than just him when she realizes the opportunity she has.


I was VERY pleased with this.

Edited by BadAndyMk3, May 6, 2012 @ 10:26 PM.

  • 1

#4582

MsFortune

MsFortune

    Loyal Viewer

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 11:04 PM

Where are the Reeds?
  • 0

#4583

BloatedGuppy

BloatedGuppy

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 11:12 PM

You guys are a lot more patient with the deviations than I am. I was alright when there was a small handful of minor deviations per episode. This entire bloody episode was nothing BUT deviations. And it's not "we're hiding the Direwolves because CGI is expensive", either, it's totally changing random crap for no apparent reason. Why is Jeyne Westerling's stand in from Volantis, now? What the hell does that do to the Red Wedding storyline? Why the roundabout way of getting Ramsay to Winterfell instead of keeping the Reek business? Jon and Ygritte strike out on their own...does this mean we lose the Qhorin Halfhand fight?

And one of the things that's really been a disappointment for me...these Ironmen. The Ironborn in the books are very much a Scandinavian/Viking stand in, with colorful names, a fearsome reputation in battle, and a tradition of honor through battle. The show ironmen are a bunch of lanky, sleazy brigands.

It may just be me, but I find the show sharpest when it's sticking relatively close to the canon established in the books. Some of the show-specific scenes and dialogue alterations are EXCRUCIATING. Most particularly the bulk of Dany's Volantis scenes. And where the hell is Barristan?

ROROWROWROWORWOROL.....
  • 0

#4584

Blue32

Blue32

    Fanatic

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 11:18 PM

The show ironmen are a bunch of lanky, sleazy brigands.

If the shoe fits...

Seriously, though, isn't "briganding" sort of the Ironborn's philosophy? "We do not sow" roughly translates to "We don't make shit or grow shit, we steal shit." They have a cute way of justifying the fact that they survive by stealing shit by coming up with this business about "paying the iron price," but that's basically what it boils down to. Maybe they're meant to come across as honourable, but there's very little that's honourable about the most prominent Ironborn characters in the books, to my mind.

I do agree that a lot of battles have been excised, though. The Blackwater battle had better be spectacular, is all I'm saying.

Edited by Blue32, May 6, 2012 @ 11:19 PM.

  • 1

#4585

PadmeSkywalker

PadmeSkywalker

    Channel Surfer

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 11:21 PM

What was with all of the crazy deviations from the books in this episode? Kidnapped dragons? The Khalasaar being murdered? Bran et al. leaving Winterfeel before it is destroyed? Robb's wife being from Volantis? Either I'm completely misremembering the books but the writers are on crack. And no Bronn or Sor Jorah? That makes no sense. Where Tyrion and Danny go, they go.
  • 0

#4586

benteen

benteen

    Stalker

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 11:29 PM

First off...the Bastard of Bolton is coming! This season or next season is anyone's guest. Not that I'm a Ramsay fan mind you but he's important to the story and it leads to Theon's great storyline in Season 5. Although without explaining the relationship with Reek, it will lose some of the effect when Theon becomes Reek.

I didn't mind Ser Rodrik's early exit. They combined several elements from the book with that one, like Theon havingto do the job himself. A botched beheading isn't exactly a dignified end but I think it worked out better here and I liked when he told Bran that he was going to see his father.

I'm glad they came up with a reason for Arya to use her second kill. I assumed she was going to tell Jaqen to kill Tywin before she was intercepted. I've been enjoying Tywin and Arya. Both actors are knocking it out of the part. The Jaime dyslexia story was an interesting addition. I do hope we get more of Tywin's bastard side next season...I want to cheer when Tyrion kills him.

I missed having them on horseback but the riot scene translated well, even getting to see the High Septon (I'll assume it was the High Septon) being torn apart.

The actress playing Ygritte is perfect. Rose Leslie is doing a great job. Her chemistry with Jon (or I should say Jon's chemistry with her) isn't quite there yet.

Oona Chaplin is beautiful but I don't know how this storyline is going to play out either.
  • 0

#4587

Marq DeCarabas

Marq DeCarabas

    Fanatic

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 11:29 PM

Every time Ygritte opened her mouth, they teased us with a "you know nothing Jon Snow." When she started in about how stupid he is and went back to sleep...tease!


This has to be so deliberate it made me laugh. I guess they don't want a line that has become such a part of the series to be be just muttered.

I don't mind the changes, maybe it's because I haven't read the books over and over, but I also like the I know where it's going but am still surprised.
  • 0

#4588

cwaldo

cwaldo

    Fanatic

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 11:30 PM

The show ironmen are a bunch of lanky, sleazy brigands.


And your point? Sorry, I'm with Blue32 here, that's always how I saw the Greyjoys and the Ironmen. Fucking Greyjoys. Grrr.

As for the woman from Volantis, I'm not sweating that part. Obviously, she's hiding who she really is. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if she's Jeyne Lannister as opposed to Jeyne Westerling. The Red Wedding will be attended.

I don't mind the dragonknapping, I do very much mind the slaughter of the very little people of color on the show.
  • 0

#4589

WickedRipePlum

WickedRipePlum

    Fanatic

Posted May 6, 2012 @ 11:41 PM

I thought I was going to have issues with showing Robb's romance, tonight just confirmed that basically I'm just not able to watch it. I spent that scene hiding my eyes trying to make it go away, thus making my roommates think I was crazy. Beheadings fine, rape sure, but Robb meeting his first lady can't make it through. I have no issue with them changing her character I just can't handle it at all.

As of right now, I'm still cool with the changes.

This has to be so deliberate it made me laugh. I guess they don't want a line that has become such a part of the series to be be just muttered.

Agreed.
  • 0

#4590

Dev F

Dev F

    Fanatic

Posted May 7, 2012 @ 12:15 AM

Bran et al. leaving Winterfeel before it is destroyed?

That's not a change from the book. In fact, it's starting point of one of the book's most significant plotlines.

And no Bronn or Sor Jorah? That makes no sense.

Per last week's episode, Jorah's out trying to find Dany a ship, right? In retrospect, it seems like the writers deliberately sent away the characters they didn't want the thieves to kill -- Jorah got sent to the docks, and Doreah got sent to seduce Xaro's neighbors for information.
  • 0