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Mob Wives


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#1141

shanna 1

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 6:56 PM

I kept waiting for the women to throw sideways glances at Karen during this whole 'ratting' story. Or at least seem to be reluctant to talk about it, but it seemed like they just glossed over what Sam Gravano did.

And how was it different? If a wire is worn it is awful, but if he just rolls on someone it is ok? I don't get that.

I like how the women were so upset over the holiday issue. In books and articles I have read about the mafia and feds relationship, it seems as though they have a tradition they go through when bringing people in. The early morning "raid" etc, but many time the mafia guys know they are coming and their lawyer is already on the scene. And didn't Junior turn himself in (and thus, Renee's Dad being picked up then)? Shouldn't the whole "ruined Thanksgiving" fall on HIS shoulders? His timing should be what is being blamed.
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#1142

diorella78

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Posted Apr 10, 2012 @ 10:33 PM

I just read Big Ang is filming her own spin off in July! lol.
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#1143

my3guys

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 12:10 AM

Shanna 1
No kidding, plus the fact that her father headed a drug ring that targeted teenage boys in the burbs of Phoenix (or anywhere for that) and ruined many lives. Oh well. Renee has a double header.. rat husband, father in prison. While they all made their choices, Karens father is both and more.
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#1144

KrisPChikn

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 3:31 AM

Karen's whole rationalization of her father and why his ratting was different than Junior's ratting made no sense.

I just read Big Ang is filming her own spin off in July! lol.



Praise be to the Gods of VH1!
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#1145

LLC

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 8:24 AM

Be still my heart....Big Ang spinoff? I can now die happy.
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#1146

yearoftheroostr

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:39 AM

Since I didn't see this posted:

‘Mob Wife’ dad guilty

I can see Renee's dramatic ass making it seem as if he's doing a 30 year bid next season.
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#1147

Ladle

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 9:41 PM

I found this last episode much more tolerable and even strangely compelling. Maybe it's because, for the most part, Renee was all drugged up and we were spared her banshee shrieks. And I can't decide which was better comedy gold: Big Ang admitting she has a drag queen voice or Drita's TGIFriday's line.
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#1148

Ms. Moon

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 10:46 PM

I am proud of Drita she did the right thing by going to see Renee, she's a good and loyal friend to her. I do feel sorry for Renee because for most of her life she was the daughter of a powerful man and the wife of somebody and for her that was a big deal, she got alot of respect and benefits from that, however now she's also dealing with the consequences of this. This betrayal is a bit larger since she is on the show and since her life is part of the show she can't leave this out.

I am happy to see her box up Junior's things because that fantasy she had of Renee, Junior and AJ was just that because he had no true love for her in his "attempt" to "reconcile" and I teared up watching the footage of her hugging and kissing him, welcoming him back into their home meanwhile that snake was just conniving to use her.

I do think that Carla since she's known Renee for as long as she had has her number. This I do think as Renee herself said may have had to happen. I do think that through this she may come out stronger, AJ seems to have a good head on his shoulders and it seems that he can compartmentalize his priorities and loyalties as well as give his mother good advice which she should take. This should serve as a good lesson to AJ though, do not go into the family business.
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#1149

Ms Hepburn

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 7:37 AM

I found this episode so much more tolerable without vile Ramona.
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#1150

ayajedi2

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 10:33 AM

Carla may have spoken the truth about Renee according to Drita but her timing is awful, she is not a true or loyal friend to Renee. Renee needs intensive therapy and to examine her life, her choices and how she wants to be in the future. I know that these types of shows are scripted and heavily edited but I have a feeling that A.J. will not be okay in the future, no matter what the castmembers say

I would not want to get into the ring with Drita she would kick my ass. I wonder who she is gonna punch next?
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#1151

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 10:34 AM

I had no problems with what Carla said because it is what I would have said to Drita (or other friend) in the same circumstances. Carla never said that Renee knew Junior was ratting - what she said was that Junior had acted oddly - not like a man committed to a relationship and in love and that Renee had picked up on this but tried to deny it - i.e. that Junior just wasn't that into her.

I think in Karen's mind the difference in terms of "ratting" is that Junior used a personal relationship with Renee and her father to acquire new information whereas Sammy the Bull testified to what had happened. Let me be clear that to me it is somewhat of a distinction without a difference although I do believe that Junior has a special spot in the pantheon of betrayals for actually moving back with Renee in order to further his plans as it is probably that he could still have achieved the same results in terms of taping without that truly awful act of betrayal - the moving back and faking a relationship to me being worse than wearing a wire.

I checked Karen's book out of the library and it was an easy read and actually fairly interesting in terms of offering a window into why these women are so awful - and I think they are horribly damaged by their upbringing. At one point, Renee is talking about a family outing to a duck pond where the kids were feeding some ducks bread and one of the ducks bit a kid. Sammy charged after the duck and wrung its neck in front of the kids. Karen cites it as an example of how protective he was. I saw it as pathological and disturbing as I compared to taking my niece to feed the ducks - the duck stole some of her sandwich and she started crying. We all comforted her and never thought of seeking revenge against the duck. I snapped a picture of her wailing and she loved to hear the story of the duck who stole her sandwich and the whole family would laugh about it. Pretty different family memory.
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#1152

goofygirl

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 2:00 PM

Big Ang is getting her own show? Finally!
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#1153

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 3:06 PM

I would not want to get into the ring with Drita she would kick my ass. I wonder who she is gonna punch next?


As much as I like Drita, her technique is flat out terrible. Yeah, she's got a fierce right hook but she's mainly a brawler who will throw out everything to beat you. If you've been trained in martial arts or boxing (or just plain have discipline), it wouldn't be hard to take her down.


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#1154

paganalexandria

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 5:01 PM

I think in Karen's mind the difference in terms of "ratting" is that Junior used a personal relationship with Renee and her father to acquire new information whereas Sammy the Bull testified to what had happened. Let me be clear that to me it is somewhat of a distinction without a difference although I do believe that Junior has a special spot in the pantheon of betrayals for actually moving back with Renee in order to further his plans as it is probably that he could still have achieved the same results in terms of taping without that truly awful act of betrayal - the moving back and faking a relationship to me being worse than wearing a wire.


In the Gotti's case no one had to wear a wire because the feds had him spilling the beans himself. Sammy was thrown under the bus by those taped Gotti ramblings; he flipped mainly for revenge. I can see why Karen would consider Junior wearing a wire, moving in with Renee just to throw suspicion off, and leaving AJ to be much worse than what her dad did. I wonder how much plastic surgery Junior will have to get. He was on mob reality show which highlighted him being a rat. He would be less easy to pick out in a crowd if shown on America's Most Wanted.

Edited by paganalexandria, Apr 16, 2012 @ 5:02 PM.

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#1155

Manhattan

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 5:56 PM

In the Gotti's case no one had to wear a wire because the feds had him spilling the beans himself. Sammy was thrown under the bus by those taped Gotti ramblings; he flipped mainly for revenge. I can see why Karen would consider Junior wearing a wire, moving in with Renee just to throw suspicion off, and leaving AJ to be much worse than what her dad did. I wonder how much plastic surgery Junior will have to get. He was on mob reality show which highlighted him being a rat. He would be less easy to pick out in a crowd if shown on America's Most Wanted.

I am no fan of Karen nor her father, and I think anyone who kills for profit is a scumbag, but I agree with this statement. Sammy Gravano would never have flipped on his crew if he had not been thrown under the bus by John Gotti, whom he considered family. Once Gotti did that to him, Gravano saw no reason to fall on the sword for his Boss and Family. To make it worse, Junior used and emotionally manipulated his family in order to do so.

Edited by Manhattan, Apr 16, 2012 @ 6:08 PM.

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#1156

pru22

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 6:03 PM

I couldn't agree more.

What Junior did was flat out all kinds of messed up and he set out to use Renee's feelings for him to do what he needed to do. It's also why he didn't tell her goodbye and left her that lame note.

Sammy on the otherhand would have more than likely went to jail for John Gotti if it hadn't been for the tapes of him talking smack about Sammy up oneside and down the other.

What John Gotti did was foul and I don't blame Sammy one bit for turning on him and looking out for only himself. And the fact that John Gotti actually believed that Sammy would take all the blame for him regardless of the tapes was beyond delusional and arrogant.
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#1157

diorella78

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 3:48 AM

I didn't think Sammy da Bull was all victim. IMO both men are/were dirtballs. Karen can wax poetic all she wants but her dad is still a rat and a lowlife.

Which brings me to Junior, who, I agree is even worse in regard to his actual family (not Family); what he did to AJ especially is just a punk move and he isn't a father in any sense of the word.
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#1158

yslchyc

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 7:55 AM

In the Gotti's case no one had to wear a wire because the feds had him spilling the beans himself. Sammy was thrown under the bus by those taped Gotti ramblings; he flipped mainly for revenge.


Sammy flipped for the same reason anyone else flips - because they are going to get a deal. For Sammy, it was the difference between a life sentence and five years and presumably being under witness protection made the prison time slightly more bearable.

Sammy and Karen can rationalize motivations from her to doomsday but they are the same for anyone who flips. Every person is *played* by the authorities and calculating whether someone else is going to flip.

The whole myth of omerta is dead - if it ever existed except as a fear tactic.

And I have no problem with rats, stool pigeons or whistle blowers whether in the "Mafia", the police department or corporate America because to some extent that make it safer and healthier for society. I hate that the IAB in police shows are treated as hated meddling know nothings - yeah it's far better to have corrupt kids in league with criminals.
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#1159

Manhattan

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 5:05 PM

Sammy flipped for the same reason anyone else flips - because they are going to get a deal. For Sammy, it was the difference between a life sentence and five years and presumably being under witness protection made the prison time slightly more bearable.

Again, I think the guy is a murdering scumbag, but that is not what made him flip. Gravano was of the old school mobster mentality, even more so than Gotti, whom Gravano and other Gambino Family members considered too flashy and high profile. After their arrests Gravano was keeping his mouth shut, even in court proceedings already under way, until the Feds presented the tapes of Gotti trash-talking him and throwing him under the bus. Furthermore, Gravano discovered that Gotti and his lawyers were setting up Gravano to take the fall at Gotti's trial by using the general public's romanticized notion of the Italian mafia to make it look like Gotti was all about peace and love, like The Godfather's Vito Corleone, and it was Gravano who was ordering and/or doing all of the violence for the Gambino family on his own and that he alone as out of control, like The Godfather's Sonny Corleone. Once all that happened, Gravano decided to take a deal after all, and of course he was going to extract the best deal for himself out of the mess. Also, as part of his deal he refused to testify against any of his other crew/Family, because they hadn't turned on him, nor would he turn informant once he was freed.
Junior just wanted the best deal possible from the jump, period, and he even agreed to use his family in order to obtain it. No one had betrayed him and made him flip out of hurt and spite. And he made the emotionally deceptive effort to actually wear a wire to trick his family and friends to give up evidence.

No one is saying Sammy was/is a better person than Junior. I find both Sammy the Bull and Junior to be disgusting criminals, but what Junior did made him a worse "rat". Neither is a worse or better person, because they're both immoral dirtbags, but if we're going by THEIR life codes and if I was looking at the situation through the eyes of "one of them", what Junior did was worse.

And I have no problem with rats, stool pigeons or whistle blowers whether in the "Mafia", the police department or corporate America because to some extent that make it safer and healthier for society.

In complete agreement!

Edited by Manhattan, Apr 17, 2012 @ 5:10 PM.

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#1160

pru22

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Posted Apr 17, 2012 @ 6:49 PM

Brava, Manhattan.

You broke it down perfectly.

I'm not saying that Sammy is a victim or that I feel sorry for him, I just understand why he did what he did. John Gotti was setting him up bigtime and was only looking out for number one. So it boogles my mind how some of the Mafia people can't seem to grasp why Sammy did what he did.

Why shouldn't he look out for number one when the one person who he thought of like a brother was found, via the tapes, to be shoving a knife in his back. Anyone with a braincell would have done exactly what Sammy did after hearing those tapes of John talking about him like dog.

As for Junior...there is just no words for what he did. I feel so badly for Renee and her son.
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#1161

pretyonthesofa

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 9:01 AM

I dont feel bad for Renee AT ALL, only AJ. Renee thought she was some kind of princess and gloried in her father's and husband's crimes. Poor AJ never had a chance.

Edited by pretyonthesofa, Apr 18, 2012 @ 9:01 AM.

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#1162

yslchyc

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 1:30 PM

I'm not blaming Sammy for testifying against Giotti. I think the whole thing illustrates that the code of silence/omerta is really a myth because when push comes to shove almost all of them will do it provided that the cost/benefit analysis plays out.

There are obviously degrees of betrayal - for most normal people (even if they aren't criminals) their first loyalty is to their family so the betrayal by Junior was of course more heinous from a HUMAN point of view because who the fuck does that to their son and ex-wife.

I do feel sorry for Renee on a human level because Junior didn't just rat on her father by wearing a wire which would have been fine with me personally since they are both crooks and if the father wasn't committing crimes, he wouldn't have had anything.

However, to deliberately move back into your ex-wife's home - to put your son in that kind of potentially emotionally devastating situation - of course that's far worse than Sammy "betraying" other criminals who were his business colleagues. I'm honest but I would testify against business colleagues without batting a lash whereas I wouldn't betray a family member as Junior did - and by family member I mean Renee/AJ because the father was really just a business colleague however long their criminal history went back.
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#1163

Ms. Moon

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 8:40 PM

However, to deliberately move back into your ex-wife's home - to put your son in that kind of potentially emotionally devastating situation - of course that's far worse than Sammy "betraying" other criminals who were his business colleagues. I'm honest but I would testify against business colleagues without batting a lash whereas I wouldn't betray a family member as Junior did - and by family member I mean Renee/AJ because the father was really just a business colleague however long their criminal history went back.



Exactly, Junior did not just wear a wire to do in his business partner/father in law, he moved back in with his ex wife and son to do it. It is despicable. I do feel sorry for Renee in this because she'd already created this fantasy where she lives happily ever after with Junior after more than a decade she's thinking they're finally going to do things right and it's all a lie. AJ should be getting professional help through this, I don't think it's enough that Renee sees a therapist they both should because this is widespread betrayal that is personal. Junior's betrayed his family and he's made his son's relationship within his own maternal family a kind of awkward one.
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#1164

diorella78

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 3:01 PM

I just caught up with the last episode and the montage of Junior's 'professions of love' were gag worthy, but looking at the insincerity in his face is very telling. If we didn't know what we know, he looked to me like a poor actor or someone too aware/uncomfortable of the cameras. Of course, he was 'playing his role' for Renee and family. So gross. He hardly ever looks Renee in the eyes, which is interesting, too.

I don't remember Karen's mom mentioned before, and I guess I was surprised she called (on the show).

I also didn't have a problem with what Carla was saying; she was just going back and thinking of the 'signs.' STFU Karen.
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#1165

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Posted Apr 19, 2012 @ 3:05 PM

I also didn't have a problem with what Carla was saying; she was just going back and thinking of the 'signs.' STFU Karen.


Exactly!! Karen is a true shitstirrer. She cannot wait to run and tell somebody things out of context to start drama. Karen is the fakest thing on this show. Everytime she speaks since the first episode it comes across fake to me. Her tone, demeanor, everything rings false. CANNOT STAND HER!!!
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#1166

njcritgirl

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 7:38 PM

Who doesnt insure their jewelry? Since ramoana got hers supposedly from her husband wouldn't there be a paper trail? What a bunch of bull. Who moves their 4 kids into her boyfriend's house after only a few months of knowing him? And hypocrite Karen is now a victim of her rat father too? Bitch will say anything to sell her "book"
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#1167

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 7:55 PM

The bigger question, for me, was why the hell did she have what I'm going to ballpark as a half a mil or more in jewels in a damn duffel bag? That should've either been locked up in a safe at her house, or placed in a safety deposit box. Same thing with the birth certificates.
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#1168

deadpanlady

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 10:37 PM

Take a shot every time Ramona says "joolery". *hiccup*
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#1169

ayajedi2

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Posted Apr 22, 2012 @ 10:45 PM

I think that Ramona is shady as hell.......who keeps $200 grand's worth of jewelry in a duffel bag at their new bf's house?? The FEDS had a right to seize it, she was stupid for having it there in the first place. It should have been in a vault, at the bank or something.
I don't really have any qualms about Sonny's victims suing Karen or being angry about her book. She should donatea hefty sum to the victim's groups.
All of these women have profited from alleged ill-gotten gains and are now feeling the pinch
Unpopular opinion alert: I think that Drita is a hilarious woman and is probably the most down to earth and relatable of the lot of them.
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#1170

The Mighty Peanut

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Posted Apr 23, 2012 @ 7:40 AM

I do see Renee as a victim to a certain extent. What these women refer to as a lifestyle really isn't too far away from a cult, or a country-within-a-country that has it's own systems of rewards and punishments. Also, Renee is legitimately mentally ill, and so where Karen and especially Drita, who joined the lifestyle/cult as a grown-up, are more equipped to make a conscious decision to be in bed with a society of murderers and thieves, Renee is not. She learned as a child that she got love and approval through being a true believer. She did everything right, followed every rule, embraced loyalty as the path to love....so as it all crashes down, it's not just her finances and reputation falling apart in front of her eyes...it's her religion. Even a sane person would have a difficult time accepting that yes, the last 40-odd years WERE a lie. And Renee is a crazy bitch.

Edited by The Mighty Peanut, Apr 23, 2012 @ 7:41 AM.

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