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#331

Neeney

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Posted Mar 25, 2012 @ 2:21 PM

All of his financial difficulties raised a real red flag, but if he faked an accident, why did he leave the money in his truck? The main clue to it being faked, rather than just a mysterious accident are those oxygen tanks, which were, IIRC, not set up for a long deep water dive. Surely, even an uncertified diver would know not to dive with tanks half full.



Maybe he left the money in the truck to make it look more like he drowned, rather than left on his own. Who knows? Also, I agree with the tank thing. You'd think they'd have mentioned it in whatever class he took. If indeed, he did die in the cave, perhaps he also didn't know how to check the air pressure in his tanks? I'm just wildly speculating. It's all very puzzling.

Edited by Neeney, Mar 26, 2012 @ 4:28 PM.

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#332

Blixx

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Posted Mar 28, 2012 @ 10:25 PM

Anyone watch the latest episode about the missing Suny student Suzy Lyall?
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#333

hhaze

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 1:36 AM

Hmm...I think Suzy may have been grabbed by someone in that parking lot and forced to give up her pin number to her ATM card. The clerk didn't see HER at the store, but the card was used. I'm thinking they may have missed something during the questioning of the other customers in the store at the time.

Her boyfriend sounds like sort of a jerk and the fact that he had remote access to her computer is odd. Plus hiring a lawyer and refusing to speak to the police again was a douche-bag move. Another thing that bothered me was that his alibi didn't involve his physical presence, it was given by a guy playing a computer game with him over the internet. But despite his technical savvy, it was 1998.

Although the mother noticed tension between them, I don't quite see him being involved.

Unfortunately, I doubt Suzy is alive. It might have just been some random stranger who grabbed her on a whim and forced her to give up her pin number.

Another thing that puzzled me... Don't ATM machines usually have cameras? Shouldn't they have been able to just see whoever was withdrawing money?

Edited by hhaze, Mar 29, 2012 @ 1:44 AM.

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#334

Neeney

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 8:54 AM

Another thing that puzzled me... Don't ATM machines usually have cameras? Shouldn't they have been able to just see whoever was withdrawing money?


That's what I thought, too. But, as you mentioned above, it was 1998. They may not have been required to have cameras on them then so it's possible that ATM machine didn't have one.
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#335

travel9x

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Posted Mar 29, 2012 @ 10:13 AM

Or the camera at the ATM was not directed in a way that would capture images of people other than the person using the ATM.
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#336

chailey

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 8:18 AM

Another thing that puzzled me... Don't ATM machines usually have cameras? Shouldn't they have been able to just see whoever was withdrawing money?

IIRC, the ATM was in a convenience store. Any security cameras probably would have been aimed at the clerk at the counter.

Yikes, last night's episode was really sad. I think that the young girl didn't plan to run off with the guy, (she didn't seem to pack anything to take with her), but when he showed up at her school, he was able to talk her into it. She now probably blames her family for causing her boyfriend's arrest and the interruption of their life in Mexico. When the show started, I was afraid that he'd killed the girl in revenge for his statutory rape charge. Her family is never going to get her back, unless, perhaps, he decides that she's now too old for him and starts going after another young girl. His family is a waste of space. If one of my brothers had decided to go after a 14 year old when he was 20, it wouldn't have been pretty. My mother would have been all over him.
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#337

smoky

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 12:17 PM

I thought she willingly went with him. They may have seen themselves as a Romeo/Juliet type relationship.
The mom talked about how much she changed after she started dating him. How previously she was only interested in school, grades, and her girlfriends. It got me thinking how you really don't know how someone will behave once they enter a relationship.

Edited by smoky, Apr 3, 2012 @ 12:26 PM.

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#338

Neeney

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 12:28 PM

I thought she willingly went with him. They may have seen themselves as a Romeo/Juliet type relationship.
The mom and brother were portraying her as perfect until this older guy came into the picture. Nobody is perfect.
The mom talked about how much she changed after she started dating him. How previously she was only interested in school, grades, and her girlfriends. It got me thinking how you really don't know how someone will behave once they enter a relationship.


I thought she went willingly, too. Just because she didn't take anything with her doesn't mean she didn't know and agree to the plan.

I was with her mother until the very end when she was saying her daughter had been brainwashed, and she would eventually come around to "their thinking". I was like huh? You're saying that what your daughter has been through isn't real to her? I guess the girl figured it out quickly because it sounded like she hightailed it out of her mother's house pretty quickly.
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#339

chailey

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 12:49 PM

I was with her mother until the very end when she was saying her daughter had been brainwashed, and she would eventually come around to "their thinking"

I don't see the daughter coming around to their way of thinking until way in the future when she will perhaps have her own 14/15 year old daughter. She may have a different view of things then. Or not.
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#340

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Posted Apr 3, 2012 @ 5:09 PM

This story was so sad. This woman actually got her daughter back, but only physically. Mom still sees her innocent little girl, while Chioma is now legally an adult and can do or believe what she wants. The amazing thing to me was that the couple was still together 4 years later. And apparently had been capable of preventing pregnancy. Though naturally Chioma may not have felt she had the option to leave. What I wish had been addressed was whether Chioma and Josh had been communicating while he was on his 6 month work sentence. Did she even have a passport?

I do believe that someone was sending the couple money-the timing of Josh's phone call right after the lawsuit was filed was way too much of a coincidence.
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#341

cheeztoast

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 7:01 AM

I found it surprising that the couple was still together 4 years later as well. But then again Mary Kay Letourneau went to prison and came out and is still with the guy who was a teenager when she started a relationship with him. The mom acted correctly on trying to check the inappropriateness of the relationship with her daughter but maybe it would have been more responsible to just make sure the girl was having safe sex and let the relationship run its natural course. I know that sounds crazy but is it crazier than turning your daughter's boyfriend into a major villain? Running for the border also seems crazy but maybe they really are in love. Teenagers and hormones...glad I'm not a parent.
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#342

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Posted Apr 5, 2012 @ 1:49 PM

I was at Albany when Suzanne Lyall dissapeared. I remember the photos like yesterday. I didn't know her, but I took that bus, went to that mall, etc....
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#343

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Posted Apr 6, 2012 @ 3:54 PM

"Teenagers and hormones...glad I'm not a parent."

Amen to that. These cases are so tough on the parents. At 14 years old, there was only so much Chioma's mother could do to keep tabs on her daughter. And we all know from personal experience, movies, etc., that forbidding a teenager from seeing someone makes the other person all the more attractive. And statuatory rape laws make the stakes (and emotions) even higher for the couple.

I was very surprised that Josh didn't tire of Chioma and call her mother years earlier to get her off his hands. The pull of their romance was in part because of its taboo (us against the world!). Once they were on their own and fairly certain of anonymity, reality of day-to-day life would set in. Josh was an adult, and Chioma was a child. Wonder what their relationship was really like all that time in Mexico (I ask because clearly the so-called witness reports in Mexico were mistaken about a lot of things).
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#344

Neeney

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Posted Apr 9, 2012 @ 6:00 PM

They just showed the Mike Williams one in repeat and I still think his widow and best friend had something to do with his disappearance/death. The fact that they seem to have no repercussions in this, and get to "get on with their lives" makes me really wonder. When his mother said at the end, that all she does is get lied to, I really felt for her.
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#345

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Posted Apr 11, 2012 @ 11:42 PM

I thought she went willingly, too. Just because she didn't take anything with her doesn't mean she didn't know and agree to the plan.

I was with her mother until the very end when she was saying her daughter had been brainwashed, and she would eventually come around to "their thinking". I was like huh? You're saying that what your daughter has been through isn't real to her? I guess the girl figured it out quickly because it sounded like she hightailed it out of her mother's house pretty quickly.

I think she went willingly, too. I wasn't really that high on the mother's view of things. Yes, I know it's technically illegal for a 20yo to have sex with a 14yo, but I just have a really hard time with that law. We're not talking about a 20 year gap here. We're talking 6 years and a fairly young man. When I was 13, my boyfriend was 18. My mom was 16 when she married my dad, who was 20. My great-grandmother was 16 when she married my 24yo great-grandfather. My other great-grandmother was 13 when she got married, and 14 when she had her first children. This obsession with keeping kids "pure" is modern, and I don't think it's realistic. People don't marry as young anymore, but the idea that 6 years is a huge gap and that a 20yo is "too old" for a 14yo is a social one, IMO. The running away is the part that bothered me. The relationship itself didn't. I think the mother would have been much better off just letting things take their path. I think she helped create the situation.
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#346

chailey

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 1:44 PM

I think the mother would have been much better off just letting things take their path. I think she helped create the situation.


Mothers who let things "take their path" regarding their 14 year old daughters having sex, much less with someone that much older oftime end up being called "grandma" far before their time. And 6 years doesn't make much of a difference between a 30 and a 36 year old, but it should be a much bigger distance between people who are 14 and 20, maturity-wise. Obviously, she may have been an exceptionally mature 14 year old, but I'd still view the relationship as a bad one. I'd wonder whether the fellow was intimidated by women his own age and preferred a younger girl who was presumably easy to manipulate and impress.

People don't marry as young anymore, but the idea that 6 years is a huge gap and that a 20yo is "too old" for a 14yo is a social one, IMO.

Yes, these views on things can vary culturally and socially.
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#347

BDArizona

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Posted Apr 12, 2012 @ 11:37 PM

Mothers who let things "take their path" regarding their 14 year old daughters having sex, much less with someone that much older oftime end up being called "grandma" far before their time.

Mine didn't. She took me to get birth control and didn't judge or act crazy about things. On the other hand, friends of mine who had authoritarian, unapproachable parents ended up with children and abortions before graduation.

To be honest, I think making it a big deal puts the teenager at a bigger risk of unprotected sex, pregnancy and disease. A bad relationship at a young age can be gotten over. A kid who doesn't have parents guiding them with advice about protection end up with problems that can't be gotten over. I think that mother was following that path.

Edited by BDArizona, Apr 12, 2012 @ 11:39 PM.

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#348

chailey

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Posted Apr 13, 2012 @ 8:12 AM

Mine didn't. She took me to get birth control and didn't judge or act crazy about things.

She sounds very sensible.

At any rate, it is sad that the mother will now probably never have a relationship with her daughter. The daughter should have written a letter to her mother telling her that she was all right and had it delivered by friends, but probably didn't want to risk getting law enforcement on their tails in Mexico. This is sort of like the Tim Karney story--turns out he's alive, but he doesn't want anything to do with the parents who went through years of hell and thousands of dollars to try to find him. As I've said before, send a freaking letter or postcard before you cut ties--saves both law enforcement and your loved ones a lot of time and grief. Even that girl who's mother claimed that she "supported" her daughter, all the time blaming her for getting brutally raped. She should have written her a big FU letter before she left.
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#349

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 2:10 AM

I agree that having strict overreacting parents can be more of a harm than a help but I don't agree that any child male or female under the age of sixteen should be dating or sleeping with anyone in their twenties. I don't think it was right before we knew any better either. I just don't think that we are fully developed at that age physically or intellectually in most cases to make an informed decision like a twenty two year old can.

If it's love, it will wait. I do however agree that the Mom in this case is going about this in the wrong way. What's done is done at this point. Her daughter is not fourteen years old anymore and telling her that she doesn't know her own mind is only going to alienate her further. I remember there was a similar case in Australia about a girl who disappeared but was only in hiding. I don't understand how you could put your family through that when a phone call or a note would lessen their worry.
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#350

Blixx

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 10:03 PM

So nobody watched the episode with the missing Jersey girl where 10 different bodies turned up during the search for her?
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#351

BondGirl

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Posted Apr 14, 2012 @ 10:27 PM

I remember that story, and I remember finding it so ironic. Given the circumstances of her disappearance and the discovery of so many other bodies, yet it turns out her disappearance/death was accidental?
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#352

Neeney

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 10:42 AM

I think her death was probably accidental. I think the incident leading up to hear death was definitely not. She was either given something or took something that lead to her acting the way she did. Her family can deny it all they want, she wasn't in her right mind and was either given something or took something to make that happen.

As for the others, that made me really curious. Did they ever find out who did those or if they were all related?
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#353

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Posted Apr 15, 2012 @ 11:31 AM

As for the others, that made me really curious. Did they ever find out who did those or if they were all related?

Neeney - I was curious about this when I first saw the story on another show (they ALL "cover" the same crimes, ddon't they?). Doing a search for "Long Island serial killer" (also "Gilgo killer) provided a LOT of info. Theories abound, but at least some of the victims seem to be connected to an unknown serial killer. Incidentally, last week a guy plead guilty to transporting one of the victims across state lines for prostitution.
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#354

chailey

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 8:22 AM

As for the others, that made me really curious. Did they ever find out who did those or if they were all related?

It was interesting to see how the cops' theories changed through time. First they thought that the initial 4 bodies found could be traced to one killer, while the other bodies could be traced to one or two others. It's only recently that they've decided that, despite the differing MO's, all the victims were tied to one killer. Serial killers often change their MO's over time, and this guy has been doing this for 15 years at least. I've been following the case (it's especially big news here in NY) and hadn't realized that two of the victims found on LI were tied to body parts upstate. So the killer is also dismembering some of the bodies as well. I think that the young man was killed differently because he didn't fit the profile--the killer was expecting a woman, and when he discovered otherwise, he didn't strangle him like he did the others. It is kind of ironic that the disappearance of one "escort" led to the discovery of other victims in the same trade. Her death is very sad, as it sounds like she died in great distress, but at the very least it wasn't totally in vain and something good came out of it.

I've seen other shows on this case--one thing that they didn't really emphasize in the episode is that the local police department is really quite tiny. Even with lots of outside help from other law enforcement agencies, this case basically took up every waking moment of all of their police officers for several years.

Shannon's client was pretty suspicious, but I assume that the cops gave him the usual lie detector tests. I don't see him trying to kill Shannon when he undoubtably knew that she had a driver waiting for her.

The police theory--psychic break/drug freakout makes sense in Shannon's case, but like her mother, I find it odd that her pants were found separate from the rest of her body. I have a hard time picturing jeans, and wet jeans at that, being "torn" off the body as she wandered through that swamp. Have you ever tried to take off wet (and, considering her profession, possibly "tight") jeans? It ain't easy.

Edited by chailey, Apr 16, 2012 @ 8:23 AM.

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#355

Neeney

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Posted Apr 16, 2012 @ 9:58 AM

The police theory--psychic break/drug freakout makes sense in Shannon's case, but like her mother, I find it odd that her pants were found separate from the rest of her body. I have a hard time picturing jeans, and wet jeans at that, being "torn" off the body as she wandered through that swamp. Have you ever tried to take off wet (and, considering her profession, possibly "tight") jeans? It ain't easy.


In thinking about that later, it made sense. I doubt she was running through the swamp. She might have been crawling near the end and, if you think about it, she may have been stuck and trying to get out and it makes sense that her pants may have worked their way off if she was. Even tight jeans come off more easily if they are wet.
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#356

Blixx

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 5:30 AM

Last night's episode was just...strange, but then again a lot of these Disappeared aren't as clean-cut as most cases are.

Here's what I think happened to Zebb:

*Ina (aunt from father's side) called his pager and lured him to meet with Misty somewhere (the hotel maybe), making up some story that she was in trouble. Only when Zebb gets there he is met by Wesley instead who proceeds to kill and dispose of his body. When the police trace the number back to Ina, she then makes up the story that someone broke into her house to make the call - she retracts it later, so maybe Wesley threatened her, or the possibility of her business partner's daughter going to prison could sully her plans for her own business.

*Misty took Zebb's car from the hotel to use to run errands and what not until Ina/Wesley/whoever else knew or was involved with the incident told her to ditch the car so that nobody spots her in it, however two people "think" they saw her driving it and she is brought in later for questioning but denies everything.

*Jason - very peculiar, I think he MAY have had a hand in this or could have in an alternate scenario. I think what COULD have happened is that either Wesley through Misty, Wesley himself, or vice-versa came into contact with Jason via Zebb and offered him money to fix his truck IF he got rid of Zebb for him/them. I think having your truck rear-ended is a little extreme of a reason as to why you would consider killing someone but his eluding police, and firing at said police makes it sound more plausible.

*In conclusion I think any combination of the three or all four of the above are/were involved in Zebb's disappearance somehow. I think Ina was alluding to the fact that Wesley or Misty "could" have made the call when police questioned her, and she could have been threatened by Wesley and/or considered the ramifications of not being able to go into business with her friend's daughter behind bars. The thing(s) that baffle me the most were the location of the car and the things found there: hotel card key, puppy, weird lipstick drawing on rear window - kinda obvious but almost looks like someone (Misty?) was mocking investigators or even Zebb by doing drawing those lips there.

I wanted to say that Misty didn't have much to do with it but when she was (believed to be) seen driving Zebb's car and the sketch matched her profile it seemed less likely that her hands weren't dirty after all. I think she could have been threatened by Wesley with the idea of losing her child or something worse and was either blackmailed into aiding him, or just realized that having the actual baby's father in her life would be more helpful for a paycheck than without him. After the chase scene and subsequent arrest of Jason I'm also questioning whether his calling Walmart (where Zebb worked at the time) for him was really the truth or not. We know that Zebb had been missing for about a whole day when Jason called, and that the manager claimed that it was unlike Zebb to ever call in sick and that it seemed out of the ordinary (plus knowing that it was in fact NOT Zebb who was calling). The only reason Jason would have calling in for Zebb would be because he knew Zebb was going to miss work ahead of time, because he really did ask him to call in for him or because he was (attempting to) covering his tracks by making it seem like Zebb was only going to miss one day of work. But what's the point in even calling if he's (supposedly) dead and isn't going to return to work anyway, Jason just more or less implicated himself with that phone call.

Anyway that's all I've got this case got my brain working more than usual.
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#357

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 10:21 AM

For me, the case with Zebb was more troubling than usual. It's so frustrating to see there are obvious people involved in his disappearance but that nothing can be done about it by police. Obviously, it's got to be so ridiculously tough for the family.

There were so many weird things surrounding the car: the puppy? The lips drawn on the back? The car parked mysteriously in a place where mom/sister would see but also seen driving around town? The friend and the multiple car accidents? One day, hopefully, someone will talk and give that family some peace.
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#358

Neeney

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 11:50 AM

Was there a date/year mentioned in this one? Usually they have those variously sprinkled throughout the episode, but I don't recall hearing WHEN all this happened. When they kept saying his beeper, I thought it might be the 90's but I wasn't sure.

I think this case is very troubling. I think it's also obvious that the girl "friend" and her boyfriend had to do with it, and possibly his friend Jason, too. But unless someone can find some evidence for sure, or one of them decides to come clean, I doubt anybody will know for sure what really happened to him.
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#359

cousinsrock

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 12:24 PM

Was there a date/year mentioned in this one? Usually they have those variously sprinkled throughout the episode, but I don't recall hearing WHEN all this happened. When they kept saying his beeper, I thought it might be the 90's but I wasn't sure.


The timeline stated this case happened in 2000. And yeah, me and my mom were both puzzled as to why he had a beeper when that was around the time that cell phones started to become more prevalent.

I think Misty, Wesley, the aunt, and Jason all had something to do with Zebb's disappearance. Yet the police can't find anything to link them all and now they're just waiting for something or something to crack the case open. How frustrating.

The dog thing was also weird, cannot even begin to wrap my head around that. Nice that the cop adopted her in the end, though.

There were just so many odd things about this episode. I hope his poor mother and sister get the closure they need someday.
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#360

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Posted Apr 18, 2012 @ 6:04 PM

I didn't get a cell phone until 2002 but most of my friends already had cell phones in 2000 probably. The more I watch this show and other crime shows, the more I realize there are lots of people who, more than likely, have actually murdered somebody, and are walking around as free as birds. It is scary!
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