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S11: Dionne Warwick


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#61

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Posted Mar 25, 2011 @ 5:38 PM

Don't you need an excellent container to put your product in before it'll sell? This is Marketing 101, be it songwriting or Snapple. "Respect" isn't loved because of Otis Redding; it's loved because of Aretha Franklin. "How Can You Mend a Broken Heart" is known mainly as an Al Green song, even though the Bee Gees wrote/recorded it first. Bacharach (and Hal David) still needed a face and a voice to go with the music, and one of the first things people think of when they think of B&D is Dionne Warwick, and vice-versa. Just like when people think of Michael Jackson, they think of Berry Gordy. If we're going to divorce singers from songwriters in order to discredit them, the music records and halls of fame are going to be damn near empty. especially if we're going back to the 1960s.

#62

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Posted Mar 25, 2011 @ 6:48 PM

I don't understand that train of thought. It is one of our senses and something that deaf people don't have. I certainly applaud people for accepting things they can't change and living their best lives, but being deaf certainly isn't advantageous.


The problem that I had with Dionne was she was not treating Marlee like she was a real person. I mean looking and talking to the interpreter and not Marlee is just plain ignorant. Just because someone has a disability (or not) doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated like a person with feelings and that's how I felt Dionne treated Marlee.

#63

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Posted Mar 26, 2011 @ 7:23 PM

"How Can You Mend a Broken Heart" is known mainly as an Al Green song, even though the Bee Gees wrote/recorded it first. Bacharach (and Hal David) still needed a face and a voice to go with the music, and one of the first things people think of when they think of B&D is Dionne Warwick, and vice-versa. Just like when people think of Michael Jackson, they think of Berry Gordy. If we're going to divorce singers from songwriters in order to discredit them, the music records and halls of fame are going to be damn near empty. especially if we're going back to the 1960s.


Absolutely do not agree. "How Can You Mend a Broken Heart" is known as the Bee Gees quintessential song, if you look at their pre-disco catalogue. I had no idea that Al Green covered it, and I doubt I'm alone in that. For me, Al Green is associated with "Take Me To The River" and being a preacher. When I think of Burt Bacharach I think of The Tijiuana Brass, "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head" and other classical sixties songs. Sure I'd heard of Dionne Warwick during that time, but I thought of her product as old fart music, unlike the music of Diana Ross and Aretha Franklin. Absolutely couldn't dance to it. I wouldn't have any interest in seeing her perform even prior to her appearance in CA, but I would jump at the chance to see Diana and Aretha in person, no matter what the current state of their singing voices are...

As for Michael Jackson, I don't think many people associate him with Berry Gordy. Although Berry Gordy and Motown are almost synonymous, I don't think you will find many Michael Jackson fans are aware that his career began there.

I do think for most people that Dionne's appearance in CA has been extremely polarizing, and has ruined any goodwill and respect we had for her. Her dedicated fans are probably not affected, nor surprised them either, since this seems to be typical Dionne diva behaviour. I myself would like her to leave as soon as possible. I would sooner see NeNe or even Star win over her, as I find her behaviour neither fascinating nor entertaining. I must not share the tastes of Donald Trump at all. (Thank God!)

#64

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Posted Mar 26, 2011 @ 11:34 PM

Absolutely do not agree. "How Can You Mend a Broken Heart" is known as the Bee Gees quintessential song, if you look at their pre-disco catalogue.


I have the bulk of the Bee Gees catalogue on my iPod, thanks. Google HCYMaBH, and the very FIRST video result is of Al Green, not the Bee Gees. And which version constantly pops up on soundtracks? Al's, that's who.

When I think of Burt Bacharach I think of The Tijiuana Brass,


Who?

"Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head"


What?

(See how that works? Only I'm not going to go on and on about how unimportant those things are just because I'm not familiar with them.)

Although Berry Gordy and Motown are almost synonymous, I don't think you will find many Michael Jackson fans are aware that his career began there.


Those people would he horribly ignorant then. Michael recorded FOUR solo albums before "Off the Wall", and all of them were with Motown.

I do think for most people that Dionne's appearance in CA has been extremely polarizing, and has ruined any goodwill and respect we had for her.


Who is "we"? CA's ratings are in the toilet, and I seriously doubt Dionne's career is going to suffer over this. Joan Rivers got a goddamn reality TV show after her CA antics. Let's not confuse what is happening with what "we" hope to see happen.

Her dedicated fans are probably not affected, nor surprised them either, since this seems to be typical Dionne diva behaviour.


I'm not a dedicated Dionne fan, although I am finding a newfound respect for her and am reintroducing myself to her music. I merely don't believe in trashing a person's established 50+ year career based on a reality TV show, especially when the numbers and the longevity speaks for itself. If I don't like somebody, I just say I don't like them, and I leave it at that.

Edited by RentEmSpoons, Mar 26, 2011 @ 11:44 PM.


#65

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Posted Mar 27, 2011 @ 12:25 AM

"How Can You Mend a Broken Heart" is known as the Bee Gees quintessential song, if you look at their pre-disco catalogue. I had no idea that Al Green covered it, and I doubt I'm alone in that.

Nope your not alone. I didn't even know AG re-did the song.

has ruined any goodwill and respect we had for her.

I lost respect for her when she endorsed the psychic network.

#66

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Posted Mar 27, 2011 @ 2:08 AM

Those people would he horribly ignorant then. Michael recorded FOUR solo albums before "Off the Wall", and all of them were with Motown.

Then that's kind of a weak argument if the point is to compare the Berry Gordy/Michael Jackson relationship to the Burt Bacharach/Dionne Warwick one. Because the VAST majority of Michael's solo hits, the vast majority of his money, record sales, video appearances, concerts, and his global superstardom came AFTER he stopped working with Motown. Whereas virtually all of Dionne's success is tied to Bacharach, with the exception of one or two late-in-career hits after she'd been established for 20 years or so.

"How Can You Mend a Broken Heart" is known as the Bee Gees quintessential song, if you look at their pre-disco catalogue. I had no idea that Al Green covered it, and I doubt I'm alone in that.

This is a tough one for me, because the Al Green version is vastly superior. But in conventional terms the Bee Gees version was probably better known for one reason alone--it was issued as a single (which went to #1 and stayed there for quite a while), whereas I don't believe the Al Green version was. People got to know the Green version through Album play (because its on Al's best known album), and the fact that in recent years its been used as part of roughly a dozen or so film soundtracks. So it may indeed be better known NOW, but that's happened over time.

Edited by WileyCoyote, Mar 27, 2011 @ 2:09 AM.


#67

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Posted Mar 27, 2011 @ 11:27 AM

Topic, please. And the topic is not "You are horribly ignorant about music."

#68

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Posted Mar 27, 2011 @ 10:18 PM

Finally!
Although Dionne did not cause their loss, I am glad Trump fired her. Her ego seems to be too big for this show and there was always some kind of negative and draining energy around her. In other words, good riddance!
Now she can go and rest all she wants and needs.

#69

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Posted Mar 27, 2011 @ 10:44 PM

Yes! She didn't want to be there at all.

#70

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Posted Mar 28, 2011 @ 7:37 AM

When I think of Burt Bacharach I think of The Tijiuana Brass,


It was Herb Alpert, not Burt Bacharach.

Dionne said to Nene "Ok I'm going to go now" not the other way around as she stated in the boardroom. Maybe she liked "resting her body" so much that she took the easy way out when asked by Trump who he should fire. Since Dionne came across so poorly I'm glad she was canned purely for the fact of how much I was disliking her and wanted to have some shred of good feelings when I hear her classic Bacharach songs which I always adored.

#71

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Posted Mar 28, 2011 @ 8:06 AM

I may be the only one, but I honestly can't tell if she meant to get fired or not. It almost looked like she was trying to gain Trump's sympathy, playing the victim in her normal passive aggressive way. She basically said she thought she was ganged up on because she was too much of a legend. Thankfully, Trump saw through it and fired her, so she became a victim of her passive aggressiveness. But I could be wrong, it is just in the context of what I have seen of her in this show that makes me question if she really knew what she was doing.

I mentioned this in the episode thread, but I thought it was interesting that the first week Marlee (who is the only one who had been very opinionated up to this point) didn't want to fire Dionne is the week that it finally happens. Aside from a little frustration, I didn't notice any of the hostility between the two that I had noticed in the past. I wonder if this is a sign that there was an actual apology, or they both just got over it.

#72

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Posted Mar 28, 2011 @ 12:23 PM

I think Dionne wanted to go. The novelty wore off, she was tired, and she got some exposure (although it was negative). I also agree with what Star said: you don't quit on your charity. Dionne didn't give a damn, and it showed.

#73

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Posted Mar 28, 2011 @ 10:07 PM

Do you think Dionne had a bad attitude? The ladies were afraid to stand up to her.

#74

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Posted Mar 29, 2011 @ 9:25 AM

Aside from a little frustration, I didn't notice any of the hostility between the two that I had noticed in the past. I wonder if this is a sign that there was an actual apology, or they both just got over it.


I think Marlee found Dionne perpetually frustrating and difficult, but has restrained from bringing up the full extent of her ire in the BoardRooms. I was diappointed that Marlee didn't call out Dionne this time because to me she was the biggest problem member on the team- not LaToya. But Marlee may have been being strategic knowing she'd called out Dionne a couple times before and was afraid calling her out a third time could backfire into seeming like she had it out for Dionne personally.

As for Dionne herself, I'm not sure why she chose to be on this show or what she thought to get out of it. Given how she behaved, I think it really was about publicity for her. In all the tasks, she was only concerned with HER part in it. She repeatedly tried to make it all about her and got very territorial about her given task. So much that I think the ultimate goal was lost on her. I think she bailed this round because the game was no longer in her control. She had been enjoying doing things her way and being catered to by her teammates do to her legendary status and age. When enough people on the team began to call her out for doing things her way or having her way, she knew the gig was up and split. It wasn't going to be fun not to no longer be the pampered "matriarch".

Now, did she just not understand the nature of the game, or is she just such a nasty that it's impossible for her to get along with anyone else?

I wonder how she would have acted in a different scenario say ohhh, Surreal Life- which does have some tasks to complete but isn't really a competition. Or Dancing with the Stars which IS a competition, but one where she wouldn't have any interaction with the competition, just her dance partner.


I wasn't as familiar with her overall body of work (Although I am compulsively compelled to sing along whenever "Say a little Prayer" comes on the radio) and I do remember her more as the face of the Psychic Network and that she had some connection to Whitney Houston (I did think she was Whitney's aunt though, not cousin. And I actually remember the media making a bigger deal over the fact that Aretha Franklin was Whitney's Godmother). But this Show has soured me on her completely. Now I think I'm going to think "Got your number, Hussy!" everytime I see her pop up.

#75

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Posted Mar 30, 2011 @ 9:54 AM

Who is "we"? CA's ratings are in the toilet, and I seriously doubt Dionne's career is going to suffer over this. Joan Rivers got a goddamn reality TV show after her CA antics. Let's not confuse what is happening with what "we" hope to see happen.


I grew up listening to Dionne's music but I have lost a bit of respect for her. Calling Nikki a "hussy" on TV, not once but twice. "I got your number hussy?" In what universe is that acceptable?

Edited by Ahoskie59, Mar 30, 2011 @ 9:55 AM.


#76

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Posted Mar 30, 2011 @ 11:24 AM

On the last CA, Cyndi Lauper called Holly Robinson Peete a bitch to her face - and in the boardroom at that. I don't recall any real outrage about that. In fact, plenty of people defended, excused and applauded Cyndi's disrespectful behavior. Yet Dionne says to Star (and away from Nikki) that Nikki is a hussy and there is a huge problem. The double standard is flat out ridiculous.

#77

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Posted Mar 30, 2011 @ 11:58 AM

On the last CA, Cyndi Lauper called Holly Robinson Peete a bitch to her face - and in the boardroom at that. I don't recall any real outrage about that. In fact, plenty of people defended, excused and applauded Cyndi's disrespectful behavior. Yet Dionne says to Star (and away from Nikki) that Nikki is a hussy and there is a huge problem. The double standard is flat out ridiculous.


Aww, I just chalk it up to "false outrage." I think Dionne's use of the word is funny because who uses that word any more? I remember when I first started using make-up back in my high school days and my mom telling me to wash it off because I looked like a hussy . . . bringing back the old memories.

I do think Dionne is a bitchy diva, but that's exactly what I would expect from any person of her legendary stature. I grew up in the '60s, so there are probably 10 or more Dionne hits that I can still sing and remember every word. I've gotten a lot of years of musical enjoyment courtesy of Ms. Warwick, so I'll give her a pass.

#78

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Posted Mar 30, 2011 @ 12:00 PM

On the last CA, Cyndi Lauper called Holly Robinson Peete a bitch to her face - and in the boardroom at that. I don't recall any real outrage about that. In fact, plenty of people defended, excused and applauded Cyndi's disrespectful behavior. Yet Dionne says to Star (and away from Nikki) that Nikki is a hussy and there is a huge problem. The double standard is flat out ridiculous.


ITA. But what can you say except 'haters gonna hate.'

As a fan, I would've loved to see Dionne last a few more weeks, especially for a fundraiser, but who knows, maybe Star will bring her back for the finals if she gets that far.

I think overall, the show was good for Dionne. She dropped a new CD a couple of weeks ago. It's a jazz album that's getting rave reviews as her best work in decades and it seems to be doing well as it debuted at #10 on Billboard's jazz chart. So if the exposure re-introduced Dionne to the public and helped the CD, then it's good publicity... and she could get another Grammy nomination to boot !

As for I Got Your Number Hussy... well that sounds like it could be a catchy hook for a new song !

#79

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Posted Mar 30, 2011 @ 12:04 PM

As for I Got Your Number Hussy... well that sounds like it could be a catchy hook for a new song !


This is brilliant! And, you're right -- I'd buy the single.

#80

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Posted Mar 30, 2011 @ 12:19 PM

Actually, yeah- as a single or even the title of an album "Got you number, Hussy" is pretty darned brill. But the context in which she said it on the show rubbed me wrong and was uncalled for. Niki wasn't doing anything to her, she wasn't acting up or acting like a hussy for that matter. All she did was respond to Dionne in a way that apparently Dionne didn't feel was asskissing enough- in that she didn't flat out say "Yes, Ms. Dionne! You're right Ms. Dionne! I'll fix everything the way you want it right away!" And I get the feeling if she had done that- Ms. Dionne still would have said something rude behind Niki's back. She's just... not a nice person.

Dionne fussing over Hope being in HER trailer- well, see that was what was up with Dionne on this show- She got territorial about "her" stuff and "her" tasks and always missed the overall goal. It made for a lot of unnessesary friction on the women's team and in part has contributed to their current losing streak.

So for her to call Niki out as a hussy on top of everything else was just crap icing on a b*tchcake. No, it's not the worst thing ever said on a reality show. But it did suck and made Dionne unlikable (not to all, but to many) and... as has been pointed out- She totally should have been channeling that energy into making an awesome single. "Got Your Number, Hussy!" climbing up the Jazz Charts!

Edited by orionlion, Mar 30, 2011 @ 12:20 PM.


#81

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Posted Mar 30, 2011 @ 1:02 PM

On the last CA, Cyndi Lauper called Holly Robinson Peete a bitch to her face - and in the boardroom at that. I don't recall any real outrage about that. In fact, plenty of people defended, excused and applauded Cyndi's disrespectful behavior.

Well, it might be harsh, but HRP IS a bit of a bitch.

Then again, if HRP had come back and called CL a "scatterbrained nitwit" it ALSO would have been true.

I guess I'm saying its different because there's no indication, none at all, that Niki Taylor is what Dionne called her. Even a little.

#82

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Posted Mar 30, 2011 @ 4:37 PM

Well, it might be harsh, but HRP IS a bit of a bitch.

Oh! Well in THAT case...

Aww, I just chalk it up to "false outrage." I think Dionne's use of the word is funny because who uses that word any more?


Exactly. It's right up there with Dionne the Deaf Racist. Had Joan Rivers called Annie Duke a hussy, it would be hilarious.

#83

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Posted Mar 30, 2011 @ 7:44 PM

The difference is Cyndi is a generally nice...loopy but nice person who had a moment of anger and frustration. Dionne calling Niki a hussy, especially since Niki didn't do anything mean to her, was just one more thing in a long string of rude, nasty and disrespectful behavior.

Someone needs to sit Dionne's entitled ass down and tell her to get over herself.

#84

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Posted Mar 30, 2011 @ 10:44 PM

It's fine to state your opinion on Dionne -- in fact, it's what the thread is for.

A few recent posts go too far into talking about whether it's okay for other posters to have particular opinions, which is boards-on-boards. Try to steer away from that. Thanks.

#85

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Posted Apr 4, 2011 @ 11:35 AM

Orionlion, Niki was condescending, aloof and self-righteous when she spoke to Dionne which is why it rubbed her and me the wrong way. She could have simply told Dionne that Hope was helping everyone even though they had been assigned campers and that she is okay with that as project manager. Unless something was edited out, Dionne was not emotional or aggressive as Niki tried to portray her in the boardroom. I side-eyed that hussy right along with Dionne by trying to act like she was an innocent angel who was attacked.

#86

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Posted Apr 4, 2011 @ 8:13 PM

I wished we could have seen how much money Dionne could have pulled in. I bet she's got a lot of contacts. I know she is friends with many many (big name) celebrities.

I am very happy that Ms. Dionne reduced that wildebeest Nene Leakes to tears. As a viewer of RHOA, it was a pleasure to see Nene taken down a peg by my favorite singer.