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[bolivia]

Discuss...

(supposed to say 2011 in title)

Awesome episode.

The twist was rather surprising but I think I read someone had speculated on it.

Orla Brady was fantastic.

Anyone catch the glyphs?

Edited by bolivia, Feb 25, 2011 @ 4:29 PM.

[va3uxb]

I liked the changed opening titles - that helped set the mood and tone quite a bit for me. I got confused though at the very end - was there some universe switching back and forth there?

I think the glyphs spelled SWITCH.

Also - was TV that fuzzy in the 80s or were my eyes playing tricks on me?

Edited by va3uxb, Feb 25, 2011 @ 10:04 PM.

[AimingforYoko]

I don't know who the little girl is, but to use a sports reference it's very obvious she "ran film" on Anna Torv. She had Olivia down cold.
So Walternate had no clue about alternate universes? And Olivia was the one to tip him off? Interesting.

[shapeshifter]

Now we know why this universe's Peter's mom committed suicide.
Good casting.
My least favorite episode ever.

[pheonaphan]

Yaaaaaaawn.

[kariyaki]

Wow! So Walternate could not figure out where Peter had gone until Olivia crossed over and spilled her guts to the wrong Walter. I did NOT see that coming, that was awesome.

Nice casting on Young Olivia. Spot on.

[marie81]

I'm so glad that Walter confronted the stepfather.

Loved the twist that Olivia ended up revealing the alternate universe to Walternate.

Now we know why this universe's Peter's mom committed suicide

Yup.

[GoldfishGirl42]

That was a fantastic episode, but oh my did it go for the emotional jugular.

Left me marveling that Peter and Olivia can have anything close to a healthy adult relationship, given what they were put through. Olivia with physical and emotional abuse, and Peter emotionally abused into accepting/believing that what he felt was crazy. And yet neither Walter nor Elizabeth came off as a complete monster. Especially Elizabeth; Orla Brady in that last scene said so much with no words.

Walternate chose alcohol over hallucinogens. Interesting.

So I guess Peter and Olivia basically blocked that year or so out, just for survival purposes?

[Ulkis]

Can someone give John Noble and Orla Brady all the Emmys? If I cried at TV, I would have cried when Walternate said, "we have to try again, he's my boy."

Alt Liz is an incredibly strong woman. Almost unrealistically so. And it's so sad to think she waited for him all those years and then when he came back, Peter left her without a word. I really, really hope they address that.

Is it wrong that I don't blame our Liz in the kidnapping?* She had no idea Walter was going over for him, and once he brought Peter, she could have no idea how to bring him back. What was she supposed to do, say, "no Peter I'm not your mom, and you can never go back?"

*I do blame her for leaving him by the cubbies though. Want to try to keep an eye on the kid who keeps wandering around?

I really hope Peter and Olivia get a happy ending after everything. They really deserve it.

Edited by Ulkis, Feb 25, 2011 @ 10:11 PM.

[PadmeSkywalker]

Young Olivia did a really good job. Young Peter was a little creepy looking. But why didn't Olivia or Peter remember meeting each other? And how was Walter able to pass Peter off as his son? People must have know that he had a son and that he died, how could they suddenly have Peter back? Wouldn't they have wondered how his dead son came back to life? Have they explained this and I missed it?

[ReadIshmael]

So, yeah, cried through pretty much all of that. Everyone was breaking my heart. Just...I need a hug after that shit. It was totally earned and magnificently executed, but, Jesus, did it make me miserable.

[Swedge]

Also - was TV that fuzzy in the 80s or were my eyes playing tricks on me?

I don't know but I preferred that slightly textured look to the more standard clarity we usually get.

Everything about this episode was so perfect that I hate to point out that there is just no way Peter and Olivia wouldn't remember key moments of this. They were not 4 or 5, they looked at least 8, maybe 9.

[deb50]

I cant buy that our Olivia appeared to have no memory of Walter or Peter when they came on the fringe project. I can understand her not remembering Walter when she was in the drug trials at about 3 or 4 years of age, but here she was, what, about 10?? She had lots of contact with Walter...they did scary experiments and she saw him disappear and reappear before her eyes. She looks at him like he was her Knight in Shining Armor when he defended her to the stepfather. And she has no memory? She also had a significant encounter with Peter. Again, no memory.

And young Peter seems completely aware of the fact he is in the wrong universe, but when 30 year old Peter finds this out, he acts like this is a big surprise.

Love the show, but I cant buy this...

[MaggieElizabeth]

This episode roused my outrage on young Olivia's behalf. The contrast between her and Peter is painful. Everybody loves and wants Peter; nobody loves or wants Olivia. Parents in two universes want to look out for Peter, but no one is looking out for Olivia or has her best interests at heart. She's totally alone. My sympathies gravitate instinctively toward characters like that. This glimpse of her past makes me feel still more protective of adult Olivia and still more hopeful that she, not the skanky sociopath Fauxlivia, will be the one most loved in the end.

Agree with the posters who have pointed out the magnificence of Orla Brady's performance. She matches John Noble. This is one of the best-acted shows on television. Here's hoping that Emmy notices this year.

[txhorns79]

And how was Walter able to pass Peter off as his son? People must have know that he had a son and that he died, how could they suddenly have Peter back? Wouldn't they have wondered how his dead son came back to life? Have they explained this and I missed it?

I remember them mentioning that Peter didn't have much of a childhood when he was young because he was so sick to the point where he may not have even attended school. A lot of this was explained last season, I just don't remember the exact details. The only people who seemed to know about Peter (that he died and Walter brought back a new one) were Nina, Walter's assistant, William and Elizabeth.

I did kind of wonder, if this is the same alternate universe where they were using Razr-style digital cellphones in 1985, you'd think their desktop computers wouldn't look quite so, well 1980s, for lack of a better word.

[Ulkis]

And how was Walter able to pass Peter off as his son? People must have know that he had a son and that he died, how could they suddenly have Peter back? Wouldn't they have wondered how his dead son came back to life? Have they explained this and I missed it?

I think in "Peter" there were only two other people at the funeral - Carla, Walter's assisstant and Nina. I suppose we're supposed to infer they didn't tell anyone else and Walter almost stole Peter immediately after that.

Everything about this episode was so perfect that I hate to point out that there is just no way Peter and Olivia wouldn't remember key moments of this. They were not 4 or 5, they looked at least 8, maybe 9.

I half bought it. I can buy they didn't remember each other once they met once again in adulthood, and I can buy Peter in his later years saying, hey mom, remember when I thought I was from another world in the bottom of the lake, ha ha I was such a crazy kid (thus making Liz even guiltier . . . ) but I can't buy that once Walter started talking about alternative universes in season 1 Peter wouldn't go, holy shit I used to talk about that when I was a kid and Olivia wouldn't say holy shit I crossed over and saw an airship once.

And it was a great episode, but oh my gosh, so so confusing definitely if they want to get anyone, even people who used to watch, to tune back in. Even I was confused for a moment when they switched to the altverse for the first time.

Edited by Ulkis, Feb 25, 2011 @ 10:22 PM.

[sordidheart88]

I cant buy that our Olivia appeared to have no memory of Walter or Peter when they came on the fringe project. I can understand her not remembering Walter when she was in the drug trials at about 3 or 4 years of age, but here she was, what, about 10?? She had lots of contact with Walter...they did scary experiments and she saw him disappear and reappear before her eyes. She looks at him like he was her Knight in Shining Armor when he defended her to the stepfather. And she has no memory? She also had a significant encounter with Peter. Again, no memory.

And young Peter seems completely aware of the fact he is in the wrong universe, but when 30 year old Peter finds this out, he acts like this is a big surprise.

Love the show, but I cant buy this...

I think it's pretty obvious that something happened to make them both forget.

[Whiteotter]

That was spectacular. I'm so glad we got that episode. The attention to 1980s details - furnishings, toys, electronics and clothes - were just outstanding. The walk through the toy store alone had me giddy.

And oh, my, what a way to tie things up: Walternate knows where Peter is because Peter advised Olivia to trust Walter? Olivia not even realizing that she had crossed over the second time? Walter 'chooses' Olivia by standing up to the stepfather? Brilliant.

Both child actors slayed me. I've always sympathized with Peter for being kidnapped and then more or less told to distrust his own instincts, but to witness his grief and torment on screen gave it so much depth. And those blue eyes! They were almost Elijah-Wood-esque. When he involuntarily called his not-mother "mom" in the tulip field, and paused in frustration before continuing... that was a great moment. (On a completely different note, being a fan of Neil Gaiman's work I half-expected her to say that she was his "Other Mother", which any reader of Gaiman's book Coraline will know is a very, very bad thing.)

it's very obvious she "ran film" on Anna Torv. She had Olivia down cold.

Agreed! Her mannerisms - the way she looked at Walter the first time, in particular - were very Olivia, and she even got a lot of the inflections. The work she did when she turned over the sketchbook to Walter had me in tears. I'm not generally affected by flashback episodes, so it's a testament to how invested I am in this show (and Peter/Olivia) that every scene with the two children had me reduced to a puddle of tears.

I mean, really: Show, how are you so awesome?

Edited by Whiteotter, Feb 25, 2011 @ 10:21 PM.

[There There]

I think it's fairly obvious that, at some point, the show is going to address the fact that both Olivia and Peter have huge memory loss. It's so obviously a plot point that there's no way it will go unaddressed.

Overall, I thought it was a beautifully acted and written episode, but not really one I'll be watching again. It filled in some blanks story-wise, but I really found myself missing modern day Peter and Olivia, plus all our supporting characters. Still, John Noble and Orla Brady were truly superb, as was the little girl who played Olivia.

I didn't like the fuzzy filter they used at all. It gave me a headache to look at it. The only scene I thought it worked in was the absolutely beautiful scene between Peter and Olivia in the field of white tulips. That was like a dream or something. Magnificent.

[kariyaki]

I half bought it. I can buy they didn't remember each other once they met once again in adulthood, and I can buy Peter in his later years saying, hey mom, remember when I thought I was from another world in the bottom of the lake, ha ha I was such a crazy kid (thus making Liz even guiltier . . . ) but I can't buy that once Walter started talking about alternative universes in season 1 Peter wouldn't go, holy shit I used to talk about that when I was a kid and Olivia wouldn't say holy shit I crossed over and saw an airship once.

I can even buy that Olivia doesn't remember any of this because soon after the events we just saw, her stepfather (not having heeded Walter's warnings) will again use Olivia as a punching bag and she'll plug him full of lead. This is why she ended up getting pulled out of those trials, yes? At any rate, all of that is pretty damn traumatic, so I can buy Olivia blocking all that shit out. Florida was not good to her.

[justtired]

That was a fantastic episode, but oh my did it go for the emotional jugular.

Left me marveling that Peter and Olivia can have anything close to a healthy adult relationship, given what they were put through. Olivia with physical and emotional abuse, and Peter emotionally abused into accepting/believing that what he felt was crazy. And yet neither Walter nor Elizabeth came off as a complete monster. Especially Elizabeth; Orla Brady in that last scene said so much with no words.

Walternate chose alcohol over hallucinogens. Interesting.

So I guess Peter and Olivia basically blocked that year or so out, just for survival purposes?

Liked the episode a lot - especially since it shows the writers have a commitment to a long term story and have a plan.
Great twist that Walter created the problem (inadvertently trying to save the alt Peter) and also planted the notion of an alt universe in Walternate when trying to figure out a way to get alt Peter back. I suppose it shows no good deed goes unpunished.

Agree GoldfishGirl42 that it seems hard to accept that both Peter and Olivia don't recall each other or at least the name. I don't remember all of my 2nd or 3rd grade classmates, but I do remember distinct events and first names associated with them even 42 years later. I recall teacher names so I would think she'd remember Walter.

The kid actors were great and having young Olivia run into the office really caught me off guard. She was top notch as were Orla Brady and John Noble.

Nice call back to White Tulips and the ever present Dirigible.

[Swedge]

I think it's pretty obvious that something happened to make them both forget.

I was expecting something along those lines near the end. It still might happen. Maybe it'll be a good excuse to give us another mid-80s episode. :)

[Money Magnet]

The episode was sooooo serious, but needed to be. Heavy mythology here. And anyone who was scared that Peter and Olivia's meeting would be contrived, I think this episode blew that out of the water - it was not only not contrived, but fully organic to the overall story. I'm impressed.

The kids were overwhelmingly great. I had my doubts about the kid playing Peter, but once I got past the weird haircut, I totally bought him as Peter: smart, skeptical and in the end, mature and reasonable. I could buy that he would rethink his whole "delusion" about being stolen. The kid playing Olivia? Blew me away. The whole sequence filmed in Betamax was awesome. (However, I didn't much care for the gauzy camera effect throughout the episode - it seemed a little overdone. I wonder if they could have achieved a better effect by slightly color correcting the film to look "old")

It was a little odd, but Walter was not dominating the episode here. The episode really seemed to belong to Blue Elizabeth and Walternate, even though Walternate didn't have as much screen time. Walter made a huge sacrifice that would kill his sanity later, but that was very underplayed. I was disappointed that we didn't get a scene where he showed warmth toward Peter as his son, but I suspect that all happened to him in St Clare's. I think he began to idealize Peter as his beloved son when he was in the nuthouse.

The only off note was Red Elizabeth, for me... she seemed too Iron-Lady about it all. I would have expected more guilt and anguish from her (and less defensiveness) over being fooled. I had been expecting a "How could you not have known it was me?" moment from Walternate, but the writers couldn't really do that because Walternate didn't know that his exact double had done it. They only thought it was someone in disguise.

During the live tweet, Jeff Pinkner was asked why Olivia and Peter don't remember and he said "Repressed traumatic childhood memories." I think that's all we're going to get on that, folks. A little weak, but on the other hand, Olivia went through all kinds of drugging that we can easily imagine off camera, and Peter was shown beginning to buy in to the fact that his "other world" memories were a figment of his long illness. Also, we know that Walter was successfully able to eradicate Peter's nightmares through making him repeat a mantra. So, some head games went on and continued to go on, most likely. Of course, he forgot his illness too, which makes me agree that the writers need to address this. (BTW, Pinkner and Wyman said they would be back to do another tweet in May, so, you can scream at them then...?)

Will be watching this one again soon...

Edited by Money Magnet, Feb 25, 2011 @ 10:33 PM.

[PadmeSkywalker]

That retro intro scene was pretty neat with the retro music and the technologies popping up that we have now.

[Mars in Gemini]

Kudos to all the players in this one, but especially the actress playing Elizabeth.

I loved the credits, and the authentic, slightly grainy/fuzzy feel of the entire episode. That was 1985 all right.

Betamax! And that huge cordless phone! Of course I remember Rubik's Cube, but Joust isn't familiar.

Young Peter (Chandler Canterbury) was creepier in the movie after.life with Christina Ricci and Liam Neeson. He was in ...Benjamin Button too. I thought he did a good job here. Young Olivia broke my heart, too. But they weren't little kids, more like tweens--9, 10 or 11, possibly 12 for Peter, no?

Okay, it turns out I know sweet f.a. about Olivia’s background. Her mom was dead, so she was living with the evil stepdad? Where was Rachel? Was her biological dad dead too, or just out of the picture? I don't know why I don't remember these things if they've been addressed.

Very poignant episode. I kind of want to shake Walter. I actually sympathize a bit with Walternate. Wow.

[Lizcat12]

As much as I loved this episode, I was confused about something. All previous shown versions of Olivia in the daycare (such as the video after the fire she started that left the scorch marks on the walls excepting the part were she was sitting) showed Olivia as being much younger, at least 3 to 5. She must have been 9 years old here.

[Money Magnet]

I think the 3-year-old Olivia you saw (she seemed more like 5-6 to me, though) in "Jacksonville" - I think in tonight's episode, her firestarting abilities were not a surprise to Walter. They already knew she could do that, so apparently her first firestarting episode was in "Jacksonville" and they were aware she could do that at age 9, later on.

This seemed like a very strongly plotted episode to me. I was impressed with how they worked it out. You do have to go back and watch that last scene (where Olivia tells "Walter" about her troubles) to catch what exactly happened there.

Edited by Money Magnet, Feb 25, 2011 @ 10:38 PM.

[Ulkis]

Betamax! And that huge cordless phone! Of course I remember Rubik's Cube, but Joust isn't familiar.

One of the best Nintendo games ever!

But they weren't little kids, more like tweens--9, 10 or 11, possibly 12 for Peter, no?

They didn't look anymore than 10 to me.

I actually sympathize a bit with Walternate. Wow.

I wanted to cry for the man but at the same time I thought, so he knew where Peter was thanks to Olivia - and he still decided to brainwash and her and gave permission to Brandonate to kill her? The least he could have done was sent her home alive.

I did appreciate our Liz's indignation on Olivia's behalf.

Okay, it turns out I know sweet f.a. about Olivia’s background. Her mom was dead, so she was living with the evil stepdad? Where was Rachel? Was her biological dad dead too, or just out of the picture? I don't know why I don't remember these things if they've been addressed.

Her mom was alive, and died when Olivia was 14. I think the step-dad left after Olivia was 9 when she shot him (he lived). Bio dad was dead. Rachel I guess was the lucky one who didn't have to go to demented daycare.

[jdshadforth]

I have to believe they will address Olivia and Peter's memory gaps. The show is just too awesome to skip over that.

A few time glitches, though: In January 1986, Walter makes reference to his new Betamax. Hadn't the VHS-Betamax fight been settled by then? I distinctly recall going with to Crazy Eddie's in 1981 to get a VCR and listening to the salesperson go on at great length about this.

Also, wasn't Battlestar Galactica on during the 1978-79 tv season, with an even shorter-lived run in 1980 on Earth. I'm pretty sure there wouldn't be Battlestar board games on sale at a regular toy store in 1986.

[benteen]

Great episode. I very much enjoyed it. I actually barely watched the first two episodes of Fringe, something I need to fix. I've heard how amazing the Peter episode was.

Loved the retro 80s credits, opening, and setting. The kid actors were excellent. How John Noble has never won an Emmy for his work on Fringe is a crime. Agreed that Orla Barkley gave a hell of a performance too.